Sun Shines on Live Search
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News Commentary. What's the measure of Microsoft's desperation to increase search share? Calling on old, bested rivals to distribute the MSN Search Toolbar. |
Starting today, Sun will distribute Microsoft's search toolbar with Java downloads. To U.S. Internet Explorer users. Remember, that little more than a decade ago Sun sued Microsoft for bastardizing Java. Sun complaints contributed to one antitrust lawsuit and directly led to another—on two continents. Microsoft lost both lawsuits and still deals with server portions affecting Sun, among other server software developers.
A joint Microsoft-Sun press release claims that Java is available on 800 million, or 91 percent, of PCs worldwide. Newer Java versions automatically check for updates; presumably, the toolbar could be easily distributed using the mechanism. I assume it's an opt-in process, but I'll need to test first.
The numbers stated in the press release are over inflated because:
- Distribution is to U.S. users
- PC sales growth is way stronger outside the United States
Personally, I detest toolbars and recommend everyone remove them. While many people find them a necessary nuisance, too many consumers can't distinguish legit toolbars from malware. Most PCs I see crippled by unwanted popups are infected with toolbar malware. People can bitch about Internet Explorer 7, but the browser's features for thwarting unwanted toolbars and browser home page highjacks are reason enough to upgrade.
Even when not malware, toolbars often are spamware. I can't count the number of times, say, Google Toolbar almost installed or did so because of bundling with third-party software. Prompts often aren't clear enough, presumably purposely so, about the toolbar piggybacking on another software installation. Sometimes there is no warning at all.
Now Microsoft will piggyback in a bigger way. Every download is potential to:
- Gain another MSN Toolbar user
- During installation change default search engine to Live Search
I don't see Microsoft gaining loads of search market share gains from the Java bundling deal. But that's probably not the goal. It's not one deal that will bring gains against Google, but many. Microsoft is running a marathon here. Problem: Google is sprinting to Internet time. That said, Microsoft can nibble away at Google search share one deal at a time.
What I want to know: What are the financial terms? Usually companies pay for this kind of bundling deal. If neither company says today, since they're public, it will have to come out later in quarterly financial disclosures. A Microsoft spokesperson IMed in response to financial terms: "We're not disclosing terms beyond the details in the release."
Third-party deals like this are much more than increasing toolbar distribution. Microsoft bundling exposes the company to antitrust complaints from competitors such as Google. Third-party bundling is much safer, since Microsoft can say the other developer chooses the mechanism process, such as no opt-in. But this one has a gotcha. Exclusivity.
Microsoft press releases usually say when a deal is non-exclusive, something the company points out in part because its past antitrust problems. "The MSN Toolbar will be the only search-related partner offer that Sun will distribute to Internet Explorer users as part of JRE downloads in the U.S.," the Microsoft spokesperson explained.
What irony. During the browser wars, for which Sun's Java was a presumed casualty, Microsoft cut exclusive IE deals that precipitated the landmark U.S. antitrust case in May 1998. Will Google complain about this? Does the, ah, sun rise in the morning?
[Please send your tips or rumors to watchtips at live.com].
Comments (11)
I have another idea, integrate Live search into MySQL. Every time someone types a select statement they are searching for something, right?
mysql> SELECT * from mytable where name = 'Joe';
0 rows in set (0.00 sec)
SEARCH LIVE FOR 'Joe' -> http://www.live...
Your query was sponsored by Microsoft, connecting devices across the internets with magic!
mysql>
Posted by billybob | November 10, 2008 12:32 PM
lol... i can so imagine a version of SQL Server having duplicate SQL syntax just for Live services interaction...
Posted by whatever | November 10, 2008 12:49 PM
I find all these toolbar add-ins for IE a real pain. Seems like every bit of software these days will by default (unless you uncheck it) install some toolbar like Yahoo Search, Google search, MSN, etc., etc., etc. Every now and then my wife complains her computer has become too slow, usually blaming the latest Windows update. In each case its been a matter of going into IE and disabling all the addins installed by auto updates from tools like Adobe for Flash and Acrobat, Sun for Java, Real Player, etc. Generally a real pain.
I think this is where all the crapware people are going now that hardware manufacturers are declining them, paying a bit of money to piggyback the installs of free software. Eventually the consumer backlash will hopefully put the brakes on this, like it did on new systems sales.
Posted by smist08 | November 10, 2008 1:08 PM
Joe, I agree with you completely in my dislike of toolbars. IMO what would increase MS's search share is for more people to try their search. In comparing searches for tech questions, I find that Live gives me more results that point me toward answers, where Google's point me toward products. So for the type of searches I do most, Live gives me more relevant results. That's not to say I don't have to go to Goolgle once in a while too. Live is just as fast, maps are better, etc. - it's worth a try.
Posted by DaveN | November 10, 2008 1:14 PM
DaveN:
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I took your advice. I did a few searches both with google and with mslive.
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No real difference in the results.
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I searched "OpenGL coding" and "OpenGL linux", "PC help"
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Both displayed adverts. Why not give us your searches and then we can see for ourselves?
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MSlives problem (IMO) is that it has the MS name attached to it and google has virtually become a global word for "search"
Posted by Goblin | November 10, 2008 4:12 PM
toolbars seem so useless and they reduce webpage viewing space :P
Posted by puppet | November 11, 2008 12:25 AM
Ok, Ive been doing comparison searches for a while, and Ive yet to find anything better about Mslive. I will print the searches if anyone wants proof. Ive searched on 50 keywords covering IT/Coding.
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Can someone post a search that will show how amazingly good Mslive is and why people should consider it over google?
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@DaveN: Maybe you missed my post, how about you post your searches to show us this difference?
Posted by goblin | November 11, 2008 6:14 PM
@goblin, wasn't ignoring you. I re-ran my searches from yesterday through google and live search, and didn't find a lot of difference. They were mostly error codes, so they don't lend themselves to results that point to products. If I come up with any examples of what I was referring to, I'll post them. I'm not so much trying to say live is the answer to my prayers, just that IMO it's as good as google.
Posted by DaveN | November 11, 2008 7:06 PM
Hey Joe -- Not only does Sun use MS Live, but I do too, I love it and it works especially well with my OS.
Kicks butt!!!
Posted by BlackDominion | November 12, 2008 12:53 PM
@BlackDominion
Great Shill post there - shame the comment of "kicks butt" makes the statement get taken as seriously as MSlive itself does.
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@Everyone else
Have you noticed how this one is a difficult one for the MS shillers? You see if they were to post an example of how MSlive is better than Google we could all go and find out. I was quite happy to post my searches, but the reason why nobody has given us examples is that they cant. The only way they can get people to use MSlive is to print posts like the ones weve seen, or stuff it into a 3rd party software update and hope people will install it without noticing.
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Its all really rather sad that these tactics have to be used, just to try and capture the market.
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I would always urge people to compare for themselves with their own searches, and if anyone gets any results which suggest MSlive is in anyway a replacement for Google, to post them here.
Posted by Goblin | November 12, 2008 4:34 PM
Sorry for the double post, but my comment to DaveN had not copied over:
@DaveN
I found your response very insulting to me, insulting that you would try and backtrack out of a comment when challenged, but more than than, insulted when you thought you could do it to me and that I wouldnt notice.
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In your first post you said "find that Live gives me more results that point me toward answers, where Google's point me toward products"
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So what I interpreted you saying was "I find MSlive more relevant" ergo more useful, hence better. Is there any reader here who disagrees with my assessment?
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So I then challenged that with my own results of a comparison (and gave the searches I used) and then asked you to do the same. To which you replied: "I re-ran my searches from yesterday through google and live search, and didn't find a lot of difference. They were mostly error codes, so they don't lend themselves to results that point to products. If I come up with any examples of what I was referring to, I'll post them."
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But what of the searches that prompted you to post in the first place? Surely you must have had something in mind when you posted it? (or did you just make it up) As I say I have run 50 searches since, and I can find nothing which makes MSlive any more relevant or better than google, except that I have horrible feeling that MS will be collating these results for some sort of marketing/product survey.
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Then we move on to "If I come up with any examples of what I was referring to, I'll post them. I'm not so much trying to say live is the answer to my prayers, just that IMO it's as good as google."
So we've gone from you prefering MSlive and implying it was more relevant (for a reason you cant remember or have not stated) to a position of Mslive being just as good as google, all in the space of a few days. If you are going to shill, at least make it consistant.
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As I said before, it doesnt matter if MSlive is as good as google or not. Google is a worldwide name, Mslive is not.
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Good news for Microsoft that in the course of my investigating these silly claims, I added 50 or so searches to the MSlive hit count. That should keep the shareholders happy.
Posted by Goblin | November 12, 2008 4:49 PM