It strikes me as strange that you dont (want to) realize that every vendor do the same by implanting FUD everywhere they go.

While it may not be what you are directly implying, you may want to take the same microscopic lens you are wearing and analyze what IBM, ORACLE, GOOGLE, SUN, BEA, etc says all the time when they are facing threats from Microsoft, or lets face it - each other.

To your last question: yes. Isn't that what people are doing with Google and the iPod? I've come to realize that most people just don't care, honestly, they don't care if it's (an) iPod, Zune, PC, Mac, Live Search, Google, Yahoo, etc. Why? Because they don't know. The majority of the population does not even understand the difference between Windows Vista and Windows 2000, some people don't even know what version of Windows they have, or even worse, what Windows is; they just see the same logo everywhere during startup, but don't know, don't care about Windows. So why Windows, why iPod, why Google? Because they feel safe; they're using the same thing that everybody else is using, thus, in their mind, making it "right" choice. Now, you might say that the people who buy a Mac "do" care, well the amount of people who do is probably relative to the amount of people who go to Target.

Well Joe, writing a report every week about MS FUD may be a whole lot like having to write a novel everyweek instead of just a small article. There sure are volumes of FUD by Micro$oft going around.

Perhaps, FUD is not always the best word for what M$ is spreading, how about out and out lies? Or just not responding to the truth?

On that note, of not responding to the truth, or doing the right thing by M$;

http://loot-ninja.com/2007/07/27/today-show-warns-consumers-to-stay-away-from-xbox-360/

People are going catch on at some point about how bad the Xbox360 is, and the company that fails to stand behind all its problems.

Joe, that was one big clutch at straws. You could accuse them of promoting their products, but nothing more:
About Ray Ozzie: He just says that they're the only company capable of providing and end-to-end platform, which, considering Windows Server, Exchange, Live & MSN platforms & Windows desktop & mobile OS, isn't a bad claim. It's not FUD, he's not saying "If you use Google you'll be screwed".
About Robbie Bach:
He's just trying to make their phone platform appear attractive by noting that theirs is available across different types of hardware, and we all know that Apple's is not. Again, he's just promoting their products, not saying "Use the iPhone or Symbian OS and you're screwed".
About Jeff Raikes: Again, not FUD- promotion. I'm not sure what you think they're trying to make us be fearful, uncertain or doubtful of.
Finally, Kevin Turner, again, he's just pointing out the diversity of the Windows ecosystem, which he is certainly entitled to do, versus the Apple ecosystem which isn't as wide or varied. Some people say that's an MS weakness! How could it be FUD? It's just pointing out the situation!
This article contains more examples of FUD towards Microsoft than from it.
Microsoft aren't saints, but they're entitled to promote their products against their competitors without having the old 'FUD' chestnut thrown at them.

IMHO, the 'FUD' acronym has become FUD.

"Microsoft hasn't yet delivered one piece of its so-called services strategy"

onecare comes to mind

xbox and xboxlive comes to mind

shall i continue?

couple more real quick...

have you noticed all the windowslive maps on non-microsoft sites lately? me thinks that might be a SERVICE.

or windows update? microsoft update (including third-party fixes)? crash reporting service (including third-parties)?

wow, i wonder how many i could remember, if i was being PAID to do this, like you are.

ever hear of adCenter?

Hungary Officials Raid Microsoft Office. More of the same type of monopoly practice by M$;

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/26/ap3957835.html

given that Microsoft has started the lurch toward doing software business the way IBM does, I don't know what this means but it certainly makes me think there'es more muscle behind VCSY's gnat size than would appear.

That's a huge step for Microsoft and I don't know how that would help a patent infringement case.

Ask around if anyone with a legal brain can see a way MSFt could skate past the VCSY patents by giving their own patents to open-source?

Very interesting day today. Interesting things being said in the announcements and blogs.

Microsoft really needs to launch something impressive Monday or they'll continue a shareprice slide that undermines the necessary impressiveness of their strategy.

I would suspect MSFT has settled but at the "low end" of the cash scale for impact as MSFT is headed toward AOLdom via plugged in server nodes connected via RSS conduit.

A workable solution but a brittle one that won't tolerate strangers. BUT that internal community could be applied in all facets to the outside world in a safe buffer of virtualization.

I have no idea what MSFT and VCSy have as a settlement but I would bet MSFT has opted for the least frontal area use of the 744 patent and would settle for a closed community of .net soap and ajax (don't eat that stuff it gives you the runs) with a virtualizing layer to the outside interop world.

Who knows. It's all very fuzzy right now but this is a huge different day for MSFt and their developers. The discussion over the weekend in the Microsoft blogs will tell a great deal. Here's a good directory.

Also the competitors are in motion. Adobe prominently. AIR (521) and Scorpio (744) per my view.

As for "open-source" MSFT could also be throwing in with Google instead of IBM but they would still be facing injunctions because the patent is in force and no amount of "giving to open-source" philanthropy is going to assuage your illegal possession of the stuff.

It might help your market image as you attempt to fight off a patent litigation, but IP courts aren't swayed much by public opinion or image. They want to know why you were building for sale stuff that can be described by a lawfully assigned patent.

Joe, you are mistaken, most of the promises have been fulfilled:

http://www.live.com
Windows Live Messenger
XBOX Live
Windows Live Spaces (over 120 million)
Office Live Small Business (thousands signed up)
Windows Live Hotmail - 380 million
CRM Live
MSN Portal

The services vision is very strong and tangible. Just do the research. And there is more to come.

Are you really well informed? Check ideas.live.com for the no. of services that MS has released? And btw for the coolness quotient chck this out -

http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/2007/07/28/FacialRecognitionComesToLiveSearch.aspx

Vivek, I posted a similar comment to yours about the various Live Services and he didn't approve it. Very misinformed technology analyst. He is just a biased human probably looking for attention from Steve Jobs. At least Walt Mossberg has the decency to be biased for one platform. Joe, you love Microsoft just like how Chip loves Linux but are suffering from a weird jealousy mental issue with the Company, but but at the same time, you are nothing but a freak for OS X inside. You confuse me.

Joe, please do the research before posting. And remember to categorize your post under fiction. You are just one of those persons who just see Vista doing well and decide to bash it for its success. There are people like that in life, somebody doing well with their education or career wise and choose to bash them and talk FUD about them. "John got a lot of A's on his reports this year, but its not right, he should have gotten better than an A". Thats basically how Joe thinks.

If you don't post this you have proven my point very well.

Microsoft is laying out the software bulding blocks (.net framework 3.5, Silverlight etc) and the infrastructure needed to accomplish the services strategy and is getting ready to explode, much like it did in the 90's for the internet. Others have not done much that is enterprise ready either. They have a long long way - longer than Microsoft in my opinion - ahead of delivering something worth considering for the Enterprise (I am not talking toys & utilities here).

Joe
I feel that you have been looking to much at what "Chips" writes as comments here.
And Joe tell me something if classify statements from microsoft as FUD, what do you classify the statements from Apple or Linux???
And our old friend "Chips" will be right there with the best of them.

I am thinking about some facts;
 MS is the biggest software's company of the World
 MS gets its objectives with no importance for ethic, and is able to achieve this based on its enormous economic and political power ,cunning lawyers,and lack of scruples
 MS is a legally proven criminal.
 MS because of its monopoly, charges us with abusively and excessively high prices (proof: obscene enrichment) for a bad or mediocre product or service. Then perpetuating this situation with the killing of every newly born company that could compete against MS.

Then why are people still with MS?:
In general, people dislike changes, and to enabling them to change, they would need more information and serious alternatives (Well now this is happening )
 How MS would fight back? FUD and more FUD: by the use of advertising (MS is buying companies dedicated to it ) and Shills (people with no scruples and no imagination who prefer becoming an enslaved witless fat dog that a free thin wolf).
How can we get to differentiate them from the rest? Because of the senseless desperate fight they put up when defending MS. Very similar to what any common folk could do to protect their source of feeding.

Some extra thoughts :
Is there a manner to differentiate a fanatic from a Shill?
Yes, generally the fanatic exaggerates (eg: Bill is a God! or something like that) while the Shill has more control over him/herself, but simply attacks everyone who says something negative about her/his Boss (well, that is their principal function, is it not?)
And are there intelligent MS's fans?
Yes, but they are not many- you recognise them because they are close to pragmatism, they defend the good and recognise the evil (really is hard defend to MS.)
Therefore, should we censor shills? Of course not, we should only recognise them to understand them and as to not to feel irritated by their apparent nonsense (answering them when needs be) Really, if we think about it, their situation is pathetic, trying to seem more stupid than they actually are to gain a small salary or present (laptop?) and all that because they do not have enough intelligence to be productive by themselves (ie Joe) without the need to bend over.

hahaha, looking over my post, what I mean is that shills do not have enough intelligence to be productive by themselves, unlike Joe.

BTW Nice Post Marco.
Let me first say, there are no such as Linux Shills, as Linux dosen't have the War Chest that MS has for that type of thing.

I do believe that posting as a MS paid Blogger (which is what a Shill is) pretending to be a normal poster is wrong, morally and ethically. Copy and Pasting most of articles (a sentence or two, or paragrath and a link is ok) is also wrong, and against most copywrites, including when they are done from MS sites. Since this seems to be a favorite tactic from the "Shills", one must wonder if they have permission to do this already?

Again, I have been painted as a MS hater and a Linux lover. Truely I do like that I find Linux to be a superior OS to Windows, and that it is under constant improvement with releases around every 6 months or so, if one wants to upgrade, or not.

My problems with MS Windows, is that Vista was a real step backword. XP, 2000, and 98SE were the better examples of what MS could do. Very disappointed with Vista, and felt like MS wanted to control everything that the user was doing there with massive DRM built into it. The EULA and the WGA are also very restrictive to what you can do with them. Therefore the amount of MS spyware built into Vista has increased as well as Office 2007. But I actually liked previous efforts by MS, except they have become old, and no longer cut it compared to Linux and Mac OS X, especially as far as from a security standpoint.

Now many will agrue that Vista is a small improvement over XP as far as sercurity, but it would at best be a very small worthless one. Not worth the pain to downgrade to all the other problems of this OS. I really wanted Vista to be a good OS, which it is not.

It finially dawned on me, that Vista is not an upgrade path. Even if SP1 fixed all the "problems" with Vista and compatibility with 3rd party software, (which it won't) it will still have the DRM baked into it, causing many multimedia programs to fail to install or play.
Therefore, the correct upgrade path is to hold onto XP (or 2000 or 98se) as long as possible, using 3rd party open source and freeware apps to secure it as best as possible, and to install and learn an easy to learn GNU/Linux distro (PCLinuxOS, SimplyMEPIS, Mint, even Ubuntu) as a dual boot system. Linux should always be the system used on the internet to surf and get email, as Windows has too many security problems in the long run for this, no matter how much you do to it to secure it, windows is just inherently insecure. My computers just have to work, without spending a fortune on them, and this is a clear upgrade path for me, that is working out amazingly well. OS X might be another way, but going to be a lot more costly, when my present hardware works with previous versions of windows and Linux very well indeed.

As far as blogging for a laptop, hehe, that is what MS gave out to impress real blogger like Joe (not sure he got one, but it did not work, as Joe really trys to be fair) to sway people to write nice things about them. I am sure they would never send me a laptop. I wrote that for a joke. Although, LOL, I probably would take the laptops and move on.

To Neil :
Quote;
"Joe
I feel that you have been looking to much at what "Chips" writes as comments here.
And Joe tell me something if classify statements from microsoft as FUD, what do you classify the statements from Apple or Linux???
And our old friend "Chips" will be right there with the best of them."
--------------------------------------------------
Perhaps, if you get off the attack mode on people all the time, and really join the discussion, on a different basis, it would be better. By doing that you force people who respond to do the same thing. But maybe, that is your purpose, to stop people from talking anything negative about MS and defend themselves (the messinger) from attacks.

MS does not do things 100% all the time. This is not something that can be painted, black or white, but rather in a greyscale, somewhere in between. Your attacks force people to paint MS black, and give us no room to acknowledge the good things that MS does (although I cannot think of much right off lately that they have done good). But I have had some nice things to say about previous Windows versions if you listen.

"there are no such as Linux Shills, as Linux dosen't have the War Chest that MS has for that type of thing"

I suppose IBM and Sun and x and y and z companies don't have a PROFIT motive in their linux faunings.

Or is it just that you've lost complete touch with reality?

IBM does not have a warchest.

I'm still laughing at that one.

to boo;

Yes and IBM still sells Windows software as well, as well as their mainframe business. To imply that IBM pays people to troll these sites to promote Linux, is really way offbase, and totally unfair. You have any proof that IBM does any of that? Guess not, as they don't do it.

The fact that M$ has been caught doing shill like stuff, like the wiki and laptop scandels, is just the tip of the iceburg with what M$ is doing. Another M$ tactic, always shift the blame, with "these other companies do it," so M$ is just doing what everyone else does. Except, they are not, and only M$ is completely without Moral or Ethics, just bottomless GREED.

Even if IBM were to do it, (and they don't) do two wrongs make a right? So u agree that M$ is doing it (using Shills)?

So thats what this is all about Chips, me getting a review unit? Lame. Its not my fault Free Software Foundation, Red Hat, Novell, IBM - very rich company's won't give their staunch supporters like you hardware to review their crappy software (Linux) on.

Stop calling me a shill, I do not work for Microsoft and even if I did, I would not be a shill. I work for a Print Shop in my parish of Manchester, Jamaica W.I where I manage 15 Windows desktops. You are just proving to people that Linux and Open Source software is for miserable, misinformed, jealous, hot headed people.

To Andre Da Costa :
You might be a shill for all I know, using Live.com for a domain server, somehow seems to make it more likely. Also, sounding a whole lot like a rubber stamp for MS. But, you are right, and I will not call you a MS "shill." Don't know 100% sure you are one, thinking about 98 or 99% sure, that leaves some room for doubt. So I will give you the benifit of the doubt. Fair enough?

I would suggest you lay off flaming Joe Willcox, he is just trying to do his job in the best way he can. Just because Joe is not printing what you or I always think, dosen't mean he needs to be constantly attacked. Joe tries hard to be fair.

"using Live.com for a domain server, somehow seems to make it more likely"

Again, I offer the credible reason of "you've lost complete touch with reality?"

"Joe tries hard to be fair."

LOL. What are you 19? Did you read ANYTHING that Joe wrote while at cnet years ago? You are either one very ill informed person, or a lonely troll looking getting his berries tickled by ANY online attention... or some sad combination of both.

Why don't you type a few more pages in defense of poor, tiny (only $8.87BILLION in profit in the past year). I could almost respect your opinions if you were simply anti-capitalist, but to single out one company from its peers... shows your writhing hatred for what it is... simply WRITHING HATRED.

the poor tiny company I was referencing in my last paragraph, was your blessed ibm.

To boo;

No, I just dislike Vista, and the spyware with it, and the DRM, and the fact that so many programs are broken in it and will not install unless you upgrade, which usually means spending even more money. I am a technician, and have to work on computers. But you do seem to have an unhealthy hated towards IBM.

?rendezvous and presence.?

By the way, tell Mary Jo ?rendezvous and presence.? with software is a euphemistic semantic token to denote the process of (once finding a service in a directory) arranging a meeting (contractural service arrangement) aka "rendevous" and an "experience" (the packaged software presentation to the user for he/she/it to "experience") requires the rendevous actually gets carried off by the "presence" of both parties (presumably long enough to perform the interoperable interactions desired and the parting transaction required to satisfy all... specified requirements, shall we say.).

This new language comes from the community essence of a SiteFlash patent ecology. The community is in charge of the application construction and the community participates in the requirement specification and management of the modular application parts available (and further constructed or otherwise made available to the user community).

This whole thing requires an ecological method that allows all experiencers (you and me in all the various facets of community activity - you know: development, deployment, maintenance, management, governance, research [where it belongs - with a governed base of IP and code resources] and back to development. KISS the ring and everybody does there job to get the publication out on the skreet where it's wanted instead of in the shop on a lift.) to maintain their own culture and application identity while said culture and identity and lot, stock and barrel of the attached community.

It all matters to Mary Jo somehow:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=602

July 26th, 2007
Ozzie spells out the Live platform layers
Posted by Mary Jo Foley @ 4:12 pm

Live Platform Services: Identity and directory; device management and security; adCenter ad platform; communications and ?rendezvous and presence.? David Treadwell is the new Corporate VP in charge of this layer.

"rendezvous and presence" is what SiteFlash 744 teaches.

"Joe tries hard to be fair."

LOL. Joe had an anti-MSFT agenda when he was an analyst and that agenda has become increasingly clear here. Just review his last dozen articles. See a trend? If you want fair - or even accuracy -you read Mary Jo. Joe is strictly for laughs.

One thing MSFT has proven over the years is that large companies staffed with MCSE IT managers, and box makers will pay the vig for license deals on OS and server products. Gates and Ballmer took the lucky break of the 20th century (DOS preinstalled on commodity PCs) and ran with it. Now their underlings are acting like it represents a real, scalable business strategy. Please note most of the new products and initiatives introduced since '02 are financial failures. Will someone please tell Robbie Bach when you loose money on every unit sold, you can't make it up with larger sales volume!

Joe talks of MSFT spreading FUD, but I think it's just hubris backed by a large piggy bank. These guys actually believe they are going to change the world with this stuff, and like drunken sailors they spend billions and billions of dollars for products real-world managers would write off as dumb mistakes.

Chips
Let's face it anyone who says opposite to you is a $hill (at least in your mind they are)!
Just because you are pro Linux and anti MS, does not mean to shills (as you put it) are not in other companies for other software.

To Neil;

There you are again on the attack. "Just because you are pro Linux and anti MS, does not mean to shills (as you put it) are not in other companies for other software."

At least when I say something I have some facts to back up my claims. With you, you just blindly attack.

So I ask you Neil, what exactly do you have for facts that IBM is engaging in using Shills?

Put up or shut up.

You have none, because there is none. You hate IBM because they are the arch enemy of MS in your mind, or at least MS hates them.

MS hates IBM because MS screwed over IBM back with their join venture with early OS/2. And when MS put the knife in the "Partner" IBM that made MS, I suspect they have felt guilty and just wished IBM would just die. But instead IBM hung on, and came back. IBM Linux service business is only a small part of what IBM does.

But you, accuse without any facts what so ever. You may not be a Shill, but this is what a Shill does. Either way, I have no respect for your opinion, because that is all it is, without fact. Worthless.

BTW Neil, I liked your expression $hill, its very Micro$erf. Good Job.

"I am a technician, and have to work on computers. But you do seem to have an unhealthy hated towards IBM."

If you are fixing someones computer, you are most likely interacting with the hardware only, in most cases, after you have fixed the hardware issue, you will just boot the PC to make sure it reaches the desktop and working properly.

"I just dislike Vista, and the spyware with it, and the DRM, and the fact that so many programs are broken in it and will not install unless you upgrade, which usually means spending even more money."

Geez, you are such a liar. Which Spyware???? Microsoft would prefer not to have DRM but because the Entertainment industries have such control over the content and how it is distributed, they must respect their wishes. Unless Linux which steals and distributes content without the authors permission - that is the type of society you live in Chips, being a thief! Which programs are broken in Vista Chips??? You are the same person who said you don't use Windows - stop telling lies hypocrite or stop mistaking the garbage that is Linux for the best desktop OS on the market (Windows). If you are referring to third party applications that do not work, have the common sense to check the manufacturers website for updates. 2000 applications are fully certified for Windows Vista, 2.1 million devices are fully certified for Vista.

Even applications on Linux tend to break when you upgrade to a new version of the OS. There is no support in hardware and commercial software industry for Linux compared to Windows. Who wants to use a stupid OS like Linux that requires that you compile every mouse click you make on it, whether its to import pictures, write a document, browse the web, installing it is like wasting your time. All my devices are supported out of the box Vista, plug my digi cam in boom, they pop right up in Photo Gallery. Play a DVD, pop it in boom, it opens in Media Player. No need to be using illegal codecs like Linux, I can play CD without feeling guilty. Connect to a wireless network, boom, no compiling, no headache, no Linux! I want to surf the internet, not be a computer scientist - that is Linux mantra, have PHD to use a PC! Lame!

Chips, stop spreading your propaganda. Its beginning to make you look like a fool. You are living in a fantasy Chips, and I can bet all your responses are typed on a computer running Vista but you are just telling lies to support something that cannot be supported but you continue supporting it anyway even though it cannot be used (Linux).

Joe, try disapproving these comments, don't worry, I have them backed up in my Notes Sidebar Gadget ready to repost with the click of the mouse.

Oh, so now it's SMART people who run their business stealth mode.

http://scobleizer.com/2007/07/29/business-plan-obfuscation-twitter-style/
July 29, 2007
Business plan obfuscation: Twitter style
Robert Scoble

Charles Hudson says it: “why the ‘you don’t need a business plan’ meme is crazy talk.
Where did that come from? Well, there’s this little theory that was reported on a bunch of blogs that Twitter and other companies don’t have business plans.

That’s bulls**t.

But here’s why the story gets told: Twitter doesn’t want to talk about its business plan in public. If they told you what they are doing, how they are planning on making revenues and spending their money they’d be handing their competitors a MAJOR advantage.

Twitter is brilliant, though, because they told a believable story instead of just saying “we’re not showing you our business plan.” When I was there Friday interviewing Twitter’s execs I asked about the business plan. Biz Stone told me they were doing research. He told a great story! We’ll have that video up shortly so you can hear exactly how they are positioning the company.

I wish I was smart like those Twitter folks.

The thing is I’ve met a couple of VCs who were considering investing in Twitter. The word on the street is that Twitter HAS a business plan and has done a lot of thought about where future revenues will come from. THAT is why they got invested in.
They just aren’t going to show it to us. And they shouldn’t.

Oh, and if you REALLY think you can get funded without having a business plan you’re probably smoking something illegal. Can I come along and film you trying to pitch a VC if you think you can do that?

Neil or is it Andre, how many other names do your guys blog under? Guess I am just confused who you are.

Quote; "Even applications on Linux tend to break when you upgrade to a new version of the OS."
-------------------------------------------------

You know nothing about Linux, and your posts prove that. Move on now, and see if you can get the Serfs and Lemmings to buy Vista and Office, no matter how much it costs. And keep battering Joe every time he dosen't post something that just glows about the Micro$oft magic.

And what about IBM, guys, where is your proof that their are IBM company shills? You have none, again.

You guys are just all attack, just like your boss Steve Ballmer, aka Monkey Boy. But when it comes time to come up with the evidence, like reall patents or in your case, any facts about IBM, you guys have none. Because you are all about FUD.

How many names do you post under?

Thank you all for providing a bit of humour for what was otherwise a very boring day.

Now for some facts:

Some linux distributers have paid for various multi-media codecs.

Linux has it's place in the big scheme of things and must be making inroads, because there seems to be more and more interest in on all the computer forums I frequent/help out on.

As does Vista I might add. But dispite what MS would have us believe it's uptake hasn't been as good as they'd hoped. Dell offering XP still, Ubuntu and PCs bundled with FreeDos may be an indicator on that point. But what do I know?

I think IBM have gotten over the OS/2 thing with MS. OS/2 is dead long live OS/2- http://ecomstation.com/

Certainly interesting times ahead.

*Sits back and watches the show*

Chips
Stop being a "smart arse" you know full well (as I do) that Andre is in Jamaica and I live in Australia.
And as for IBM I never mentioned IBM at all, stop making up stories.

Well, well, well... It seems the message is not clear enogu and that the corporate brass inside microsoft don´t for a moment believe this alleged new strategy of Microsoft as a "services" company:

Quote Jason Matusow:

"I have no misconceptions about our motivations for doing what we do. MS is a business that is based on selling software for commercial gain. Not services, not hardware (XBox, Zune...IMHO are still software plays). We are going to build Office, and Windows, and SQL Server, and Exchange, and Project, and, and, and for profit"

Source:
http://blogs.msdn.com/jasonmatusow/archive/2007/07/18/open-xml-us-v1-committee-vote-and-ibm-motivations.aspx#comments

I'll add a few more comments just just for the hell of it:

Did you know you don't need to compile Linux with every mouse click? It appears some folk don't. In fact you don't need to use a mouse to have a perfectly functioning Linux system. But if you want to have a lean mean bloat free system one you compile if need be. It's something commonly refered to as a choice. A PHD isn't not needed either, I certainly don't have one. Just a willingness to give something new crack. Being able to read and understand instructions helps. Being a bit dyslexic makes things interesting though.

Yes programs can break in linux, sorry chips you are dead wrong on that one, seen it happen when I updated a while back. The cause was because an app that was on the the old version, but not in the new distro didn't like a replacement lib file. Not unlike a windows app not liking an updated dll.

Now where does one sign up to become a shill?

"Microsoft hasn't yet delivered one piece of its so-called services strategy"

Office Live is one of the most important online products I've seen--a very compelling suite of Web services for small business.”

–Webware staff, CNET.com, June 2007

It's all spin in the end. Most people who deal with the media, whether it be execs, PR, or whatever generally consult with their PR departments before talking to the media, especially if they don't have public speaking skills. What we read about Microsoft is nothing new, considering everybody else does it too.

MS is basically a tick sucking on the industry now. Their margins are insane, and it's because they charge us far too much for the same old OS and office suite release over and over again. They really wish they had IBM's margins, which are 9 times greater. Not that IBM's really a stunning company either, apart from their POWER processors, Linux-on-mainframes, and AIX.

What I would like to see is more decentralization. Linux and open source are bringing that. The Linux Foundation's weight behind the LSB, and the industry standardization on Red Hat and Ubuntu (the former eating into UNIX and the latter into Windows) will also help this evolution.

HP, IBM, Sun, even Intel and Dell, are all now getting behind open source more and more as a way to grow their companies without the added drag of doing business with MS.

I'd bet that Microsoft is so totally not behind any of the comments on this page. That would be unpossible!

The author needs to check his definition of FUD.
None of these quotes contain FUD, or fear, uncertainty, doubt (from 6-27). An example of FUD might be:

Some VP: "The iPhone has had battery issues and the batter cannot be easily replaced. Consumers should be wary when selecting this phone. There are also unanswered questions about licensing issues surrounding its operating system"

See the difference?

What a gang of cowards!!
I am not going to say that Chip always have reason or something like that, but it's obvious that he is sincere and he is trying to be objective,for that reason it's scandalous that all of you have to join to get it that couldn't do in good fight (win to Chip through argument one against one.) Now this coward's herd are join to get through of brute force hush up to him. Well gentlemen,now you are showing the material that you were building, I am sorry I have to say that your material is very very cheaper.

Actually, dnd... It's still FUD. What you posted is obvious FUD, but there exists another type of FUD which can even be more harmful: subtle FUD. In the end, the point is to scare people away from competitors, and that makes it FUD. FUD (as opposed to advertising) is characteristically untrue or a distorted version of the truth (i.e. drawing attention away from problems), and can be used by big companies to keep monopolies, which is where it gets dangerous.

That said, I didn't find the article terribly insightful either, but I think it is a Good Thing to be aware of how big companies use their market positions to retain dominance. I am no fanboy of any party--I use both Microsoft software and "other stuff" daily--but Vista honestly scares me, too.

Microsoft manufactures bullshit, not FUD.

"You know nothing about Linux, and your posts prove that."

You can't even defend your own platform??? New versions of the Linux kernel or a new version of a distribution can break applications or device drivers in a previous version. Its just a fact of life and software engineering. Some Tech Support you are, heh!

The only thing I am aware of Linux eating into in terms of market share is UNIX. Do the research people. Case studies have shown that Company's that have moved to Linux from Unix sometimes end up moving back to Unix because Linux does not scale well and requires too much resources. The same for Windows to Linux migrations, and those are usually from NT 4, you rarely hear about a Server 2000 or 2003 migration to Linux. If it does happen, the Company after a couple months goes back to Windows Server because of the issues of scalability.

As someone said, Microsoft is a business, and they make software, and they have to make money to continue bringing value and innovation to the market. Apple is in the business of making money too so are the many Company's that support Linux, Redhat, Novell and IBM. They all make money off Linux through licenses and support. Redhat client licenses in fact cost just as much as Windows Licenses.

So what if Dell is supporting Unbuntu, they are their own Company, Microsoft is not a dictatorship. So if they continue to support Windows XP? Its still a win-win for Microsoft.

A: Microsoft makes Windows XP
B: Microsoft makes Windows Vista
C: Microsoft will support Windows XP through the OEM channel and retail until January 2008.

I have never attacked you Chips, you are the one calling me a MS Shill, calling Company Officials Monkey Boy. You are the one attacking.

Joe, again, if you don't post this, its backed up on my notes gadget ready to post.

don't forget there is os/x, binds, unix, we can go old school there was byan vines, amiga, c64, novel, NeXt.

People you are at MS Watch this is what he/they/them do. I have seen it in previous articles. If one looks for crap they will find it. MS Watch is here to find crap in MS regardless of any good they do. Regardless of comparing to other similar X factors to other players in the same market. So this site will only pick on MS and only show MS in a bad light. Even if others have the same issues as not having the "WOW" factor or spreading FUD you will only hear from this site that it is MS. Not to say that it does not come from others or others have the same mistakes and it just will not be reported or compared.

Now what we need is someone or a group to watch and look after MS-Watch. "The "MS-Watch" Watch" Lets see whois: mswatchwatch.com

Funny thing, I've been coming here for a few weeks reading articles and looking to see what they where watching from MS? Where they looking for Good or Bad? And whould they help or only spread FUD. And now I read an article of what you all do but pointing the finger at MS. The Pot Calling The Kettle Black. Am I to run now in fear of microsoft based on the articles here at MS Watch (not just this one but prervious ones as well)?

Typical lets perpetuate hatered and evil. I don't mind your article but where is the help? How does is make us all better people? Hope that by pointing this out every week will help? Any suggestion on making it better? Any solutions or just pointing to the problems and contributing to them make you better? Balance compare contrast? Sheed some light on what others are doing and if it is bettrt or worse? Or maybe show us a good company that does not use FUD? Why spread the FUD? If they stated FUD we don't need the like of you to spreading it with out squahing it?

Can someone from micro$oft explain me this:
http://www.microsoft.com/opensource/default.mspx
?

If that is not FUD what it is? A way to cheat and turn opensource more into micro$oft obscure rulez? Or maybe a way to create it's own OSS certification to avoid GPLv3 drafts?
OSS certification? Who needs this? Opensource is for community and always will be. We don't want monkey boys messing with our work.

If wasn't micro$oft dominating software market for years, we would have better software than we have now. It's always about micro$oft, it always did.
Every enterprise should follow their natural live cycle. It's your time micro$oft, don't slow anymore software investigation.

Bonez;
Not you don't qualify to become MS's Shill you only qualify for MS 's fan boy ,ha,ha,ha.
Sorry I 'd not resist the joke.Yes, maybe you would qualify, I am not sure, but there are a lot of MS Shill at the moment in this forum ,you'd ask them.

lock'n'shoot
Maybe you should read it. But then again you won't nor will believe it because it come from Microsoft. Ohh and see how that is spelt with out $ what is with you people you use hatred to make a point about someone you think is full of hatred. Or doing wrong, why or how could I belive you when you wrong someone you think is in the wrong? Am I to jump from one bad boat to the next? I DO believe MS is in the wrong just as much as any one else and yes maybe at times more, but it depends on what your talking about monopoly ok, spreading FUD more than someone else come on that is a bit of a streach. Ok if I apply A = B and C = B then C must equal A.

Here because you won't read it:

"Microsoft is committed to building bridges to other software providers, including open source technologies and products. This is accomplished through business and technical partnerships with open source-based businesses and communities, including JBoss, MySQL, Novell, SugarCRM, XenSource, and Zend. This also includes technology access programs, such as the Open Specifications Promise and Shared Source code access programs."

"Microsoft is focused on helping customers and partners succeed in a heterogeneous technology world. This starts with participating and contributing to a broad range of choices for developing and deploying software, including open source approaches and applications. From thousands of lines of code and scripts on MSDN and TechNet, to open source applications like IronPython, ASP.NET AJAX, SharePoint Learning Kit, and WiX on CodePlex and SourceForge, Microsoft is continually growing the number of products released with open source access."

Q. What is Microsoft's perspective on open source?

"Open source is neither an industry fad, nor a magic bullet. Rather, the development methods commonly encompassed by the term open source have provided customers and developers with additional options among many in the technology ecosystem."

"This site is intended to provide information about Microsoft and open source in one place, serving as a gateway for information about open source engagements and activities across Microsoft."

Q. What is the Microsoft position on intellectual property (IP) and open source?

"Intellectual property (IP) serves a vital role in maintaining a healthy cycle of innovation in the IT industry. IP concepts�including copyright, trademark, patent, or public domain�are useful for developers to define terms of use that enable their project or business to thrive, regardless of what development model they choose."
----
Can someone get me a Hammer and a Chisel all technology is flawed no matter who makes it. That is why half of us have jobs. If the Mac was so great why don't they sell themselve and fixes themselves, and the same goes for Windows, Linux, Google, and what ever new comes down the pipe. I just hope when the tellatransporter shows up in the future we don't turn into flies. Is it Mr Tuttle or was it Mr Buttle .

One more thing why does all this technology need shills, fanboys, and haters regardless of who you are voting for? Why does it not just work, because as we can see the underlying theme away from us stuck here with the trees is that the forest is broken as a whole and just plan sucks. Mean while we are all bickering about our trees the rest of the world is moving on and hey the forest is about to go up in flames.

I think you missed out on the biggest piece of FUD in there: "And that's something again—this ecosystem that I just talked about—we're not building an ecosystem that handles four, five, six devices and five or six printers"

They try to make it seem that the Mac can't handle that many devices. While it can't handle all the devices Windows can it can handle the vast majority. OS X comes with several GB of printer drivers. Many keyboards and mice (including ones from MS) come with Mac drivers for extended functionality. Same with scanners. It's one of those age old arguments that people make: "Oh but Windows has way more software than the Mac". Yes it does, and yes most of it does suck, so does having vastly more crap software make it a better platform?

Whoa... I was considering on entering this discussion, but no sides here can argue fairly. Not even the original article is fair.

I have read all the comments and didn't found a single one I could agree and say "I second that!"

Too bad.

Acer trying out Linux as a preinstall?

http://sg.hardwarezone.com/priceguide/newsview.php?id=2170

We know Acer said Vista was depressing sales, and Dell is expanding its Ubuntu preinstalls to other computers in its line, as its doing well. Is HP next?

Marco, you have not added one bit of substance to any of your comments. Start reading the articles and form a respectable opinion, you are sorely letting Chips down.

Someone said Open Source is a community - so why don't they utilize that community to their advantage to build their own device drivers? Oh, I forgot, they want commercial company's to release their proprietary drivers and make it 100% easy for them. Years of hard work, IP must be given up at a beckon call without considering the wishes of the creator. Lame!

Linux is like a spoil child. Nothing in life is for free, it either comes at a cost or choice. The people defending Linux like Chips are just 100% pure jealousy over people running Windows, because they know Windows is delivering value to their lives, businesses, they are getting task done. Linux is all about tinkering and wasting time. Its for people who don't have a life or in University running experiments and even there Windows is making in roads in areas of science with tools like the new Windows Compute Cluster 2003 which scales way better than Linux could ever dream.

For all those defending Mac OS X like its free, stop your nonsense. Its proprietary operating system and it crashes often. Read the Macrumors, Insanely Mac forums, read the letters section of Macworld. Stop acting like OS X is some divine intervention to save humanity from its own destruction - its not. Look at Leopard, that OS has copied everything in Vista left right and center, not to mention its numerous delays.

To Andre Da Costa,
You are just a rubber stamp for M$. When will you come up with an orginial idea? Inside of something that has been said time again from some MS PR guy?

You are no hero for defending the worlds richest software company, a know monopoly, convicted and tried.

You are no hero for defending some of the worlds most wealthest men, who made their money using shady (at best) business tactics.

You are no hero for defending M$, when the country you come from is poor, and could use free software like Linux, if they could on average aford a computer.

Let's face it. The people attacking Joe for pointing out negative aspects of M$ whilst not attacking faults in other OSes or corporations on a site named 'microsoft-watch' really don't get the point of this site at all do they?

For the record, dnd is right. FUD is an acronym, it stands for Fear Uncertainty Doubt. The anonymous poster who tries to suggest there are other types of FUD is on the right track, but what he talks about isn't actually FUD, it's what's called SPIN. Just thought it needed clearing up. So what Joe's talking about here should correctly be labelled spin rather than FUD, but we're just splitting hairs and being overly pedantic I guess.

The number of M$ fanboys on here is shocking. I think they should all take a chill pill and accept that no OS is 100% perfect yet, not Windows, not Linux, not OSX. In terms of creating the ultimate all-rounder OS, Linux has the advantage of scalability allowing custom compiles to suit the end user requirements. In terms of creating the ultimate 'home appliance' OS, Apple is leading the way, but is still far from making the computer as straightforward and stable to use as, say, your washing machine or TV set (you still need to fix things from time to time wherein it helps to know how it all works, which is something you tend not to get with your average appliance).

In terms of market dominance and hence influence in future technology direction, Microsoft have the advantage, but not necessarily the vision to always supply the best solution for it. Quite often they're usurped by their competitors who can supply a better 'experience' for the same set of functions, but they owe the original ideas to Microsoft (or the companies bought out by Microsoft). In the mobile market, MS is currently a very poor second place and judging by the hype and initial uptake of the iPhone, destined to be pushed to third place behind Symbian (1st) and OS X. The 'dock' in OS X was an obvious copy of the Windows task bar (albeit implemented in a different way), and conversely, the search functions in Vista are an obvious copy of Spotlight in OS X (don't start a flamewar over who thought this one up first - spotlight has it's origins in the previous fast search facilities of Sherlock which dates back well over a decade).

All OSes have their pluses and minuses, and their vendors all participate in FUD. Apple's current marketing is ALL about FUD ("I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ad campaigns are a case in point), but what this site aims to do is show the dark underbelly of just one company's campaigns of FUD without producing something tangible as a viable alternative, which is fair enough. The site does what it says on the tin, so to speak.

Vista DOES contain an awful lot of DRM. It didn't HAVE to be that way. It was put there to please the entertainment industry, but they could have told that industry where to go, except that they'd most likely lose out to Apple who have scored big PR points by hyping the fact that you can now buy DRMless music on iTMS. However if Apple were truly genuine DRM would never have been there in the first place. If you buy media it should be your CHOICE how to use it (provided that you're not knocking off pirated copies for personal financial gain), and the Windows DRM is overly restrictive and being used anti-competitively. They stopped releasing MediaPlayer for OS X, although Flip4Mac still allows Mac users to playback WM files provided they have no DRM. However, Windows Movie Maker encodes Media Player files with DRM as a default, thereby locking out playback on other platforms. This seems to be a deliberate strategy of FUD aimed at new inexperienced Mac users ('switchers') primarily, who most likely won't understand why these files won't play on their shiney new Mac when they'll play on their relative's WinPC - if this is not the case, then explain why anyone would need to DRM-protect their home movies? It just doesn't add up.

That's not to say that Apple aren't playing the same game to some extent, although with pro-active tactics. Making iTunes available to Windows users, thus promoting the iTunes-only-compatible iPod to a massive audience was a successful play, but not entirely fair and still very restrictive albeit subtle. The difference here is that Apple allowed people to CHOOSE whether or not to buy an iPod (allowing market forces, clever marketing and design/aesthetics to do the work for them), whereas the MS tactic was to attempt to FORCE users to buy a WinPC to play back files. This is why Apple has the 'friendly' face and MS is considered to be an 'evil empire' - to borrow an obvious analogy, they're like the Jedi and the Sith... they both do the same thing, but the way they do it affects public perceptions.

Let's keep things in perspective though, consider that this site is called Microsoft-watch and understand that it's content will most likely be negative in outlook towards that company. If you have a genuine problem with a post, then by all means voice your opinions (and be helpful by backing up your claims with some supporting evidence - such as links to articles/datasheets/reports), otherwise start your own sites as watchdogs for other corporations (Linux-watch, Apple-watch, IBM-watch etc) where you can counter any claims made here and link to them in your defence. Otherwise you will be looked upon as mere unsubstantiated trolls or fanboys.

also Andre Da Costa,
get used to the fact that Linux is being used by people, including myself. I have no "windows 100% pure jealousy" as you put it. I find Windows, especially Vista, (which made me switch over to Linux) to be vastly inferior software.

You and Steve Ballmer (your hero the monkey boy) claim Linux steal from its IP. SCO claimes the same thing, and see where there case is going. Yet monkey boy, will not release even one patent that Linux infringes on. My guess is the Patent FUD is worth more to Micro$oft than the Patent, or the loss in court of the Patent. The truth is that M$ probably is the one infringing on Linux.

Chip I agree but when I try to show you and others how important this pending lawsuit is, which will determine how soon Microsoft will move forward as a leader again instead of the empty promises we have grown acustome to the last few years, then I get accused of spamming. And yes I am a VCSY shareholder that is why I know what I know! GLTY

Microsoft hit with patent suit from Vertical Computer

By John Letzing
Last Update: 4:57 PM ET Apr 20, 2007

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) Vertical Computer Systems Inc. said late Friday it has sued Microsoft Corp. for allegedly infringing a patent related to computer application generation. Vertical Computer (VCSY : vertical computer sys inc ) said in a prepared release that the suit was filed April 18 in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas. Vertical Computer said in the release that Microsoft's .NET system violates a patent Vertical Systems filed in 1999, and awarded in 2004, covering "a system and method for generating computer applications in an arbitrary object framework."

6-27-07? What does this mean? Shouldn't it be 7-27-07?

To Andre Da Costa:
Re: Drivers you said "Oh, I forgot, they want commercial company's to release their proprietary drivers and make it 100% easy for them."

You are aware that MS simply makes NO drivers, and makes the hardware companies supply their own drivers right? And that they charge 50k + for 'WHQL' certification, which then has to be paid again for each driver revision.

Re: Clustering you said "Windows Compute Cluster 2003 which scales way better than Linux could ever dream."
ROFL, now we know who drank all the kool-aid. Please do some further research on high performance computing, and clustering, before making such a bold faced lie, perhaps starting with Blue Gene/L or some of it's predecessors.

Linux has scaled on multiple processor mainframes and on clusters long before Windows had the capability. You were aware Google's cluster runs a custom linux kernel right?

You have your loyalty to MS, and I applaud you for sticking with it, one just wonders how low that boat will have to sink before you jump ship.

The Vista nightmare - the point I would like to make is that MS talks a lot about services, yet the most recent OS release is a nightmare.
I purchased a new Sony with Vista - Vista was not compatible with the non-microsoft SW I was using, and worse, it caused Excel and Outlook to lock up.
As the days progressed and about a hundred hard restarts, I wiped out Vista and installed XP.
Besides losing data, this has cost me days of lost productivity and multiple all-nighters.

Hasta la Vista!

Vim said:
The 'dock' in OS X was an obvious copy of the Windows task bar (albeit implemented in a different way)

Ahem, OS X's Dock was an obvious copy of the NeXT Dock. NeXT was shipped years before Windows 95. Dock is in OS X maybe because OS X is based on NeXT?

Ha,ha,ha
Andre;I am doing this only for believe and fun, for that I am do not obligate to get result ,or give an explication to neither Master or Lord (unlike you, I didn't sell my soul) and I do not always have time to email all my ideas or contest to somebody .
I don't care about ,Linux, MS, or Apple , I do care about justice ,common sense and people , if Linux is evil ,I will fighting Linux (clearly it is not,) but now MS is the company that is doing badly, and then what I am looking for? Between others things that people are not lain for shills like you.(and yes you are a SHILL)

Trouble sleeping. Read Joe Wilcox.

Vertical Computer VCSY

I like it when a company patents something vague and everyone is doing it. Then sues one company for infriginging on that patent. Not everyone just one, with the hopes that if you get the big fish the rest will fallow.

I think patents are a tool of FUD? Everyone run Company XYZ has a patent.

Could VCSY patent be like Amazon trying to patent the OneClick check out concept? Then sue everyone with a shopping cart that store customer data for return check outs.

"a system and method for generating computer applications in an arbitrary object framework."

That seems pretty generic, I think I have a framework that does something similar? Ohh no I'm scared out of pant the world is collapsing. VCSY is coming to get me. Am I going to be sued?

I like how the posting here are full of FUD as well. It is not only the companies and reporters but the shills, fanboys, and haters as well that create and/or spread FUD.

MS is being sued by VCYS everyone run jump ship MS is going down.

The only thing behind FUD is to get the knee jerk reaction and fill the void with what ever scared tactic was used, forcing you into making the choice, becuase maybe you feel inscure and you doubt the concept.

VCYS is now my new found hero thanks for the FUD I'm now moving in that direction. All hail VCYS and down with MS.

Ohh no say it as so we have sank to my OS is better than yours and mine had X before your did. Hurry up kids recess is almost over and my the one to get the most words out before the end wins. You coppied from me no you coppied from me. Xerox PARC anyone? hello anyone?

hey Linux guys, isn't winning about Microsoft on your Linux Watch (9 out 10 posts at Liunx-Watch wine about Microsoft!!!!!!) enough? Do you have to do it at Microsoft Watch too? How much more winning can you take?

Let me tell you something that is NOT FUD.
Microsoft sold 60 million copies of Windows Vista this year alone which, according to eWeek, is more than the entire Apple install base!!!!

and Andre I do think you have got perform better: About the laptop you want to earn yourself off MS, so far you have only gained the Memory RAM (only 128 MB though).

evan
Watch it someone will spin that into FUD.

MS sold 60 million copies of Windows Vista. But only 2 million where installed. There other 58 million had there computer catch fire and burn the house down.

Don't buy Vista it will burn you house down stay away.

Joe:

There was one piece of FUD in this crop of quotes; the Kevin Turner bit conflating Apple with 6 or less printers/devices supported. It seems to me that you really had to twist into some odd positions to make FUD out of the other quoted sales pitches.

You really stretched it with the comment about Bach's remarks on choice. Here is a hint: when you take to redefining words spoken by others, you have left any semblance of journalism far behind.

The comments are turning into a Slashdot-like 'Windows sucks/Linux rules' catfight. I wonder if this article series is designed to attract that sort of thing?

Finally a smart MS's fan boy! Evan is recognising all is said and done by MS is FUD-except the 60 million Vista copies.

With friends like that, MS does not need enemies...

Marco, you are an illiterate individual, you can't comprehend at a high level when it comes to discussions like this. Go play with the kiddies, your intelligence is in the 5 to 10 year age group.

They sold 60 million Vista licenses to the channel. Most of which were pre-installed on OEM computers. And mostly sold as well. The question is, how many were wiped, and replaced with another OS? This figure I have been looking for, and the only one I have found is 25%, which is not good for MS.

And yes, I know, MS still made the money. Its never been about MS making the money, or if Vista will not make MS money. Even the Windows ME made money. Its about Vista might cause MS to lose some of its market share on the Desktop, that has always been the question. MS is dominate on the desktop, so its theirs to lose some of.

Remember, I did not say that Linux or Mac OS X is going become the dominate OS on the desktop this year, or even next. What I am saying, is these things happen a few small percentage points at a time, and will start somewhere. Or perhaps, maybe not, but I am betting on it will start.

Competition is a good thing, even for those who stay with Windows and MS products. It will be a good thing if MS has to make better products than Vista, and reduce its price to a fair level. If alternative Operating Systems can take some of MS desktop market share away from it, we might see a better MS.

Quote;
" Andre Da Costa :

Marco, you are an illiterate individual, you can't comprehend at a high level when it comes to discussions like this. Go play with the kiddies, your intelligence is in the 5 to 10 year age group."
---------------------------------------------------
There you are Andre, again on the attack, you don't like the message, so you attack. You are a shill, go back and report to one of Ballmer's underlings. Or join the discussion, and comment on something original and meaningful, instead of repeating MS FUD.

BTW, I bet that the cost of a standalone full version of Vista Ultimate cost almost as much as an average user in your country makes almost all year? Would you recommend they pirate Vista or use Linux instead?

I knew some one would shed the light on the idea of 60 Million sold as being FUD and turn into something else. Thanx chip for prooving my point. I'm just gald it was not due to fire. If you look for crap you will find it. Not to say it is not there, but come on are we a bunch of crap hunters or what.

Why not make OS X, Linux, or what ever look good just on there own merits and numbers. Instead of making the others look bad. And should I say by way of FUD tactics. Again does that help your cause with the Linux or what ever XYZ product by pointing out MS faults than pointing out a product XYZ plusses?

BTW I know I can wipe out my PC (Purchase for many compannies) and put Linux on it can I do that with an iMac (purchase form one company)? Can I put any OS on it and not just Windows and OS X? Could I buy an iMac from someone else with Linux installed (Dell)? ohh, I'm sorry that was as some else pointed out "Subtle FUD.". I could record the video of me swapping my OS X for Linux on my iPhone, oops more "Subtle FUD." - iPhone has no video capture, what a crap of an OS on a phone without video (FUD). I have OS X and Windows XP on the iMac now I'm just wondering if I could put more on it like Linux, it is Boot Camp not dual boot, right?

"Subtle FUD." Say that ten time realy fast.

To I-Man :
Have to respect people who acknowledge up front they own stock in or an interest in something. In your case Vertical Computer VCSY.

It would actually be nice to know how much VCSY is sueing MS for? If VCSY is a patent troll or not? Mind you, Micro$oft is acting very much like a patent Troll itself with Ballmer and others with their FUD about Linux infringing on their patents. So I for one, have little concern for MS if they lose to "a patent Troll," which I do not know for sure VCSY is. A general overview of the VCSY case would be nice, not to make it a long copy and paste, just simple one.

If you consider who has out and out stolen code in the past, one name comes up more than any other; Microsoft. I give you Stac Electronics vs Micro$oft as exhibit number one. as an example.

It's simple.

Microsoft is not a company that sells software.

It is a company that sells lies.

In that, it is much like other companies, but it has taken this to an art form.

Absolutely nobody at Microsoft authorized to speak to the public - and many who aren't authorized - says anything but lies.

If a Microsoft employees lips are moving, he's lying.

It's that simple.

Richard Steven Hack
Base on that then A = B and C = B therefore C = A.

The world is flat, just yesterday I heard someone form MS saying the world is round.

To Computer Guy :
Quoting you;
"I knew some one would shed the light on the idea of 60 Million sold as being FUD and turn into something else. Thanx chip for prooving my point."
and;
"Why not make OS X, Linux, or what ever look good just on there own merits and numbers."
--------------------------------------------------
The first point is interesting. I did not say that the 60 million figure was FUD at all. Only that everyone may not be happy out of that 60 million, and many might be wiping Vista off the hard drive and trying to replace it with XP or something else.

Which brings us to your second interesting point. Because people use an OS if they are satisfied with it. Vista, is the best thing that ever happened to Mac OS X and Linux in this respect, because of the problems with Vista. Yes Linux and perhaps OS X (I do not use Mac) have many things that will stand on their own. But increases in desktop use has to come from somewhere, and its M$ that is the dominate OS at present, so any gains must be measured against it. Also, MS OS desktop users need the reasons that Vista has given them to try Linux. The reasons are both the good of Linux and the bad of Vista, both are interconnected and cannot be separated.

Which brings us to the FUD, which is what this article is all about. MS uses FUD against its competition because they known Vista is an inferior product at present, and that a lot of people are not happy with it.

No you did not say anything it was "Subtle FUD." I think it is the name of the game now. My intentions are not to create or spread FUD but I'm going to say somthing where FUD can be found.

Could one induce "Subtle FUD" by making or asking a question as to how many where uninstalled.

Could someone then spinn those number to be percieved as a lie and FUD? Now I'm left with Uncertainty and Doubt. Not because MS said 60 million where sold but becasue of the questioned asked. A statement about 60 Million sold does not scare me or cause doubt. But the question about uninstalles does (or my house burning down) and I'm left with asking why would someone unistall it? How many uninstalled it? Should I install it or will I be uninstalling it later? And how does that help me, giving me the choice to belive in lies or lies warpped up as FUD. Did they sell 60 Million or not?

Now if Apple came out with those number or some Linux distro. Would everyone discredit those numbers and start some FUD by stating how many where uninstalled?

Ok got it so in order to show Linux, OS X or any other software as a good choice is to show the increasing numbers of that choice and the decressing numbers of the other (MS OS). So we dig up the number of unistalls got it. I think someone should create a website for tracking the number of uninstalls of preinstalled OS. Then when ever MS states these numbers other vendors could discredit (FUD) it by referncing the iuninstalledmsos.com

The question is did MS lie about the 60 million? Or is that the truth and now FUD will need to be done to discredit those numbers? Then this will boost the sale (or show a boost) in Linux or Mac OS X. Instead of just coming out and saying how great they are.

See again if you look for crap you will find it. All we did was just pick on one (or many) topics "60 Million Sold".

Lets move on to the next one and spread more FUD.

Now funny thing is FUD goes with all that has been talked about here.
1. My OS is better than yours.
2. I'll stop if you stop.
3. A = B and C = B therefoe C = A and MS lies lies lie. The world is flat btw.
4. My product had that before you product.
5. I'll patent walking and sue everyone.

Round and round where it goes no one knows.

My last question is for Joe. Are we going to be talking about this for weeks on end? do we realy need other FUD article about MS next week or next month? I think we got it move on to something more constructive.

Chips, one more thing you are right I see the Honeymoon with the people of the 80's looking toward MS to solve problem as being over. That they want another choice but it aint going to be Linux it will be Mac OS (I say that because OS X and not iMacs because soon Apple will open the doors for Dell/OEMs and the likes to make Intel PCs that run OS x). Then there is still hopes for MS to pull the rabit out of the hat. I just hope it is not done with smoke and mirros though.

ha,ha,ha
Easy , easy Andre,calm down,it's no good for your heart,ha,ha,ha.

"Would you recommend they pirate Vista or use Linux instead?"

You know nothing about my country you idiot, stop crapping over yourself and stop defending the illiteracy of your Marco. Both of you must be lovers. I won't stoop to your level, because you are nothing but some 2-bit jobless 18 year old probably still living in his parents basement typing crap on his Linux PC day in, day out, drinking water and eating bread and don't have the self respect to go and get a job and purchase a decent PC running a copy of Windows.

You spread FUD about Windows Vista because you know its better, because you know its more popular, because you can't resist its ease of use, productivity, value, beauty. Linux will never achieve the functionality of Vista, it will never achieve the level of superiority of even Windows 3x. Linux can only dream of 1% user base. People bashing Windows in this thread are just your cousins Chips and they are just like you. Hanging out in your parents basement all day acting lazy and can't get a job to buy a PC.

Joe, you are still doing, it, please post my comments. Stop undermining me, its insulting!

To Computer Guy;
Quote;
"Chips, one more thing you are right I see the Honeymoon with the people of the 80's looking toward MS to solve problem as being over. That they want another choice but it aint going to be Linux it will be Mac OS (I say that because OS X and not iMacs because soon Apple will open the doors for Dell/OEMs and the likes to make Intel PCs that run OS x). Then there is still hopes for MS to pull the rabit out of the hat."
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Of course you maybe right, I don't have a crystal ball and cannot see the future. It very well be Mac OS X, I don't know, but I am interested in the trends. And I do see people I know switching from PC's now and buying Mac's.

The trend is what I am interested in. The percentages as well are interesting. I do feel there is a trend at present away from MS products.

Unlike some others, I usually have some facts to back up my statements. so here is where the 25% figure came from, and it might, or might not, only apply to businesses.

From one of my previous posts;
I thought you might like this article, as it kind of fits in with your topic. Its about VARs Ripping And Replacing Vista For XP At Breakneck Pace. It seems there is a lot of demand to wipe Vista off new computers and replace it with XP. Now who would have thought that? LOL

http://www.crn.com/white-box/200900857
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Do I trust the 60 million figure from MS? No, but in this case I think its close. The question is not the 60 million figure sold, but if people like it enough to love it or wipe it? Or hate it so much as to buy a Mac. I ask the question, and only partially suggust an anwser. If you deem that FUD, then so be it. But for me, FUD must contain an element of a lie in it.
Requards, Chips

To Andre Da Costa :
I believe I know more than you think about your country of origin. Which is why you won't anwser the question;

The cost of a standalone full version of Vista Ultimate cost almost as much as an average user in your country makes almost all year? Would you recommend they pirate Vista or use Linux instead?

chips
Well the FUD does not mean lie. It is just to cause or spread Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. Anyone can make a statement that is true and still spread FUD. Planes crash, simple statement for someone that cuases FUD. Was I lying?

Also not disclosing info is not lieing but can be deemed as FUD.

So don't confusion the two, now lies can be used in FUD.

So both of yas are FUDing.

MS by stating numbers sold and not the numbers installed and the user base. Not disclosing all number.

Leads you Chips to question the numbers of uninstalls. And by stating that might cause FUD.

But to your point, in the end FUD is only ones interpretation and if what ever is said truth or lie in full disclouser or not can cause Fear Unerctainty and/or Doubt. Planes crash, people die in cars.

The question is when are we going to stop. I'll stop if you stop?

Crap don't tell me computer science is now turning political. FUD is big in that area. What goverments do in order for you to think you need them? spread FUD.

Really,we have touched a nerve to you Andre,I am sorry for you,take it sportingly,the life is to short,unfortunately I have to go,take it easy, my friend.

Chips;

Excellent point made in the last. Yes, I could only imagine being that poor and me thinks if I am as smart, you know intellegent and educated is completely two different things, and I am striving to better educate myself on a very limited means, I would be forced a (not so) hard decision to make.

1.) I need a software platform to get out and educate and improve myself -- Vista is not logical at this time, it would need to be a Linux flavor because I would not have the money to have to offord the high cost of Hardware. But, darn, I need a windows platform to "relate" with the lion's share of the PC world -- Come on, I'm being realistic.

2.) Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 with MS Office 2002 would definately improve my computer means to better myself (in the mindset of improving my means through the avenue of the PC). Of course, there's the high cost of the Internet and if I was living in a poor country like you (may) be suggesting -- How am I gonna get an Internet connection.

3.) However thinking, and Chips you ain't gonna like this one. I have a far better chance of getting a job in these poor countries because, dang, I hate saying this, but its true, the lion's share of the corperate world utilizes some version of MS Office.

In conclusion, if I am poor in a third world country and was able to get my mits on a computer that was, or is capable of running Windows 98 SE or Windows 2000 -- I stand a far better chance landing me smack dab in the perfect direction to be a prominate provider for my family, that is of course, if I am to persue the anvenue of a PC related job or something to do with technology.

No, Vista would be a very long shot in this senerio -- I would use MS vs. Linux fight instead of comparing the likelihood of the unitanable operating system and its high requirements to something far more realistic.

Eventually, with some measure of fortune that I am able to get to afford a computer to run Vista, it would be only after all the esential things to my survival are met -- Do you follow me, or is this beyond you -- I am not trying to be a horse's arse or insulting, did I make my point, did anyone else follow?

Aspiring Drug Lord in Columbia...

Evan
I agree with you 100%
But with Linux watch they are preaching to the already "converted" so nobody takes any notice.
Here at Microsoft Watch people do take notice, I feel that this site is now very very negative towards microsoft. And Joe Wilcox himself said once "I am impartial".
But as one other person said here look at the posts they are all negative, it is depressing.
Andre
You are talking to a brick wall mate, they don't care if Vista has sold more than the Apple user base, to them it's still crap.
This site used to be informative... now it's not !
Chips why don't you comment on Linux Watch instead of here??
Simply because over there no one will say anything, over here it's different !
As has been said many times here since last November this site has been turning into "Microsoft Bash".
A thread that seems to go through all of "Chips" comments is that he doesn't like microsoft because Bill Gates became a millionaire out of it, and that his OS of choice "Linux" has not made much money out of it.
To me this is a bad way (and good) to measure an OS. The reason I also said "good" is because if Windows was no good how did Bill Gates get his money. I have have seen Ubuntu and was enticed by it at all, I much prefer Windows instead.
And that's all it is ... preference ! The maority of people throughout the world prefer "Windows", Like it or hate it, it is the truth !
This whole thing comes down to "mines better than your" syndrome.
Chips you do not see me going to "Linux Watch" to praise Windows to Linux People, so why are you always doing this?
Most of the comments here on the subject are from people who are against microsoft, why is that?
You guys have your own forum "Linux Watch" (unfortunately there is no "Apple Watch") so why do feel the need to come to "Microsoft Watch" ??

I am done Neil. Something is definitely wrong with Chips and Joe. They just hate the idea of one Company having the most popular, well respected, industry standard client, server operating systems and desktop/server applications. I believe in choice and opinion, but when you wrongfully call something crap without stating the facts thats when I get angry. Windows remains popular not because of "compatibility" as many put it. But because its easy to use and get up and running with. Linux has achieved many of the graphical/menu driven features of Windows, but it can't continue pretending that wrapping KDE and GNOME around a kernel is enough along with a patched up bundle of under average applications is enough to compete with the positive user experience Windows, Vista in particular offers consumers and businesses.

People don't want to worry about the technology, thats Linux problem. Microsoft targets key areas in ease of use, (OEM partners), developers and IT professional that make the ecosystem that is the Windows platform a more stable and more integrated choice for users no matter the environment. When I think of Vista Home Basic, Ultimate, Office Teacher & Student, this is more value being offered to the user than throwing a bunch of patched together hot headed wannabe software usually produced by Linux. Sometimes less is more and sometimes the user wants more and the user can get that if they want it. Nobody at Microsoft is forcing you to acquire Vista Ultimate, Business or Home Premium. No one is stopping you from getting more either, in fact no one is stopping you from upgrading or choosing another platform.

Using the founders and leaders of the Company and their riches as an attack surface is another example of hatred in the open source community generated and festered through jealousy. (Thats why Bill Gates said he doesn't want to be the richest person in the world, brings too much visibility, negative visibility in particular.) As for OSS and Linux it holds them back in areas of delivering value and innovation. Instead of thinking about the day when Linux and Open Source destroys Microsoft and Linux has 95 percent desktop share. The Principles and Ideals of the Open Source and Linux communities are wrapped in hatred and jealousy and its not necessarily even the views of people like Linus, but because of the uncontrolled community/body of persons it misrepresents the direction of the platform. People like Marco, Joe and Chips are an example of this.

Steve Jobs said it best, there are no more OS wars, Microsoft won a long time ago. Its the same case when it comes to "Windows vs. Linux", Windows has won, but it has not prevented Linux from co-existing as a choice like how the Mac OS is today. Chips needs to move from the Jihad mentality of Open Source which was culminated during the late 90's early 2000's, it died, stop living the zombie of it.

Andre
I totally agree with you 100%.
Plus as far as Ubuntu (Linux) is concerned it is not for in-experienced users. And what do 99.99% of world learn on ... Windows.
I get the feeling from Chips that he just doesn't like windows (or any other Microsoft product for that matter) because he feels that Bill Gates is getting richer and richer out of microsoft.
I say "so what" so long people are happy with what they use it does not really matter what OS they use.
Chips just can't take it that microsoft is the majority choice.
I say to Chips "You like Linux ... fine,so be happy" and there is no need to try and impress upon people who are happy with "Windows" ... USE LINUX INSTEAD.
No thanks Chips !
And lastly speaking of "FUD" being "Fear" it seems to me that Apple and Linux users do a real good job of trying to spread it in the Windows Community.

Anyone mentioned that an MS lawyer, in court, was specificly asked if it's software was patentable? His answer was "No!".

Getting rich out of the vast Windows/Microsoft application user base is just one of the perks Bill Gates got out of taking a risk and believing in the Company's products and technologies. Icing on the cake if you will, not the primary focus of the founders. Yes, they are a business and they need to make money to continue innovating and delivering value to consumers and shareholders. The same could be said for any Fortune 500 Company such as Apple/Steve Jobs, Google - Sergey/Larry, Oracle/Larry Ellison including establishments like Intel, IBM and HP. They are very rich also from investing in their company's and believing in their technologies.

Open Source and Linux communities believe in destroying with their technologies rather than building it to bring value and innovate along side existing tools on the markets. Its a race for them to make it big but not concentrate on fundamentals, such as user experience, partnership, co-existence and value. They get side winded by the focus on destroying what should be the competitors instead of the "evil empire".

Andre Da Costa what do you mean by destroying? Hell Linuxs market share couldn't distroy anything could it? Why the paranoia?

Ever heard the term "sock puppet"? I'm quite surprised chips hasn't latched on to that one yet.

To Neil;
Quote;
"A thread that seems to go through all of "Chips" comments is that he doesn't like microsoft because Bill Gates became a millionaire out of it, and that his OS of choice "Linux" has not made much money out of it."
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Bill Gates a millionaire? How about multi Billionaire, the 2nd richest man on the face of the planet, form number 1 rich robber baron. When will you Neil, ever get even one simple fact correct? When?

I will leave you with this Quote from your Hero, Bill Gates himself;

"I have 100 billion dollars... You realize I could spend 3 million dollars a day, every day, for the next 100 years? And that's if I don't make another dime. Tell you what-I'll buy your right arm for a million dollars. I give you a million bucks, and I get to sever your arm right here."

Thanks for proving our points Chips, you are obsessed with Bill Gates and his personal fortune. You are just getting a hard on from the fact that he is rich and you are not. Immature

I guess you have never heard of the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation which is giving away the majority of his fortune to help so many unfortunate people around the world get better health care, finding vaccines for diseases, better education building better societies. I don't see Segey, Larry, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison doing any such thing, rich men just like Gates. In fact, Larry Ellison gave a grant to a University then took it back. I am sure the next thing you are going to say that Gates is not doing any good through his foundation. But if you dare, you have proven to me you are a big old nobody. Who is just full of 100% jealousy over Microsoft. Stop it! You have dropped the ball Chips, you can't attack the platform, so you decide to attack the leaders.

And your quote has no basis, its just usual irrelevant drivel that I am hearing from you for the past few days now. Your butt hole must be attached your face as a mouth piece.

Chips
So what !!
I don't care if he has a "Zillion" dollars, it is irrelevant.
The software is the main thing and that is that, MS software is the most widely used software in the world.
And the only reason (it seems) that you don't like MS is because they make money, I think that you need to step back and take a long hard look at your motives mate !
The people who buy MS Software, buy it beacuse they need it and use it and it is easy to understand. And quite frankly that's all that matters. Not .. oh don't buy microsoft because you don't want Bill Gates etc. getting money.

To Neil;
I am quoting you here;
"And the only reason (it seems) that you don't like MS is because they make money"
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Close, Neil. Perhaps I need to spell it out for you. The reason I do not like Microsoft is not because they make money, its because they want to make money off me. I was a Windows user. The upgrade cycles have become too expensive for many people now.

It is time to move on, and let the monopoly make money off the hard core MS fans.

Since you could not care if it was a zillion, I hope u contribute. But as most of us know, facts do matter. Especially when someone trys very hard to distort the facts.

We have found out the truth about him Neil. Finally! Extra, extra, Chips is obsessed with someones personal fortune. How lame can someone get??? hahahahahaha I can't stop laughing, I thought he was someone with some form of maturity but obviously we have been proven wrong on that one.

"The people who buy MS Software, buy it beacuse they need it and use it and it is easy to understand."

And they have a choice does like he does. I don't understand why Chips can't realize that. A person could decide that Microsoft Office 2000 and Windows 2000 will be the last generation of Microsoft desktop products they will ever buy because they are good enough. But most still upgrade. Why? Because they see value, innovation and they want to grow their business or infrastructure, get more productivity out the investment the make in the platform and actually get work done. Not sit in front of a computer getting jealous over somebody's personal fortunes.

Chips
I do not try and distort the facts at all !!
Tell me something I you don't want MS to make any money "What the hell are you are doing on this site?"
Being an "non paid" $hill for Linux?
In the hope of getting people to go to Linux !
I am glad that you think as I do that facts matter and I stand corrected on your motives.
BUT ...your problem is Linux will never replace Windows and surely you realise that.
So stop trying to "turn" people into the Linux user base. Some will try but most will not, and of those who try, most will go back to Windows.
It's ease of use will win every time, Linux is not for beginers ! It is for experienced users only.
Oh ! by the way there is also one big reason why the general popualtion does not use Linux .... GAMES !!
Yes the there is another reason too ... what do your kids use for their homework, the same that they use at school !
And tell me Chips is that Linux ?? Or even Apple... NO it's WINDOWS.
You remind me of a "Dung Beetle" your are pushing "S**t" uphill with Linux Chips.
So please I have had enough of your condescending attitude go to Linux Watch and be happy :)

Neil,
I am staying here, so I suggest microsoft.com or Live.com for you, there everyone will agree with you. You can ask Andre about Live.com, as he uses it.

So sorry if the truth offends those at M$. Obviously Linux is only "hard" for people such as yourself. It gotten very easy to use and install in the last couple of years, depending of course on the distro selected.

Chips
Well I don't use "live" and I don't visit microsoft's web site much either !
Give me a break Chips with your "So sorry if the truth offends those at M$", if that truth then the world is "Flat" !!

Get used to it Neil, I am not going away. Linux and Mac OS X are not going away. And niether is M$ going away either. At least not for a good long time.

You may not agree with my viewpoint, fine, but if you don't like reading it, then I suggest you don't. Skip over it, and just read the comments like Andre's, which sound just like yours, from a "just the facts" website.

Well I am not going away either. I will continue to correct your misinformed idiocy which you seem to live to churn out.

Again, everybody is free to choose whatever platform they like or which they find best for themselves. But don't spread propaganda about another platform you don't use or have very little knowledge of. You curse Windows day in, day out Chips but you have never used it. You curse the licensing model when so many other commercial software Company's other than MS use it.

If anyone is in need of "Getting the Facts" here, its you Chips.

No, but I have to fix it day in and day out. So once again you are wrong Andre, I do have experience with it.

And as far as propaganda, you seem to be spreading it heavy with a shovel.

Am a software developer and I tend to dislike M$ but I do respect freedom of choice especially where such choice is made as a result of informed decision. I did develop for several years on M$ platform, services and tools. I have attended some software company presentations and M$ seems to be strong in marketing.
To indicate FUD does exist (and that some organizations have invested heavier than others) but is a little difficult to quantify (measure) I have a question - Can anyone please list one or two IT startups that have been successful while using M$ products/services for most of their solutions.

Allan,
I don't know about startups. I do know that most programs are written for Windows and that there are a billion successfull companies out there selling software to run on Windows.

Oh boy, the Linux VS Microsoft debate. Yes, Microsoft dominates the world and Linux, as I said before is a canary breaking wind in a hurrican. The reality is what it is folks. I chose MS over Linux is because I CANNOT AFFORD LINUX -- That's right, I am not the 80 or 90% percentile of computer PC or Apple Mac owners out there. I am an extreme power user. If I want to build a database for my company (mind you its small) I use Access (2007) from the ground up. And if I am building for an enterprise or large company, I use SQL 2005 Enterprise and use, wait for it-- Access Project especially with 2003 and 2007 versions, why, its super fast, I am a designer, and wait for it again -- All my clients (so far) are very familiar with Access and little do they know its a front end to something even more powerful -- Nonetheless, IT PAYS THE MORTAGE!

Same way with Excel and all the other products that I insist on using, why, because I KNOW IT, and the world I deal with, you know those 99% of the other business in the world is using the very same thing...

I've used the freebies (also mentioned in another post) and they pale in comparision. These freebies are great for personal use, dablers and the like. But again reality sets in -- My business is predicated on getting powerful, dynamic, and with my designs, user freindly products.

I like Linux, to me it's less than 1% of the PC OS Platform and I have a Linux Server setting no more than 10 feet away for my Apache / PHP applications (very few and because of it, I will be reformatting it with MS 2003 Enterprise and Cold Fusion server -- You web geeks will know what I am talking about here, for the rest -- Sorry about the language.

Having said that, heck if Linux is a good fit Cinderella, great wear that damned slipper and hold your head up with pride. But, for the rest of us, please don't be a chicken little (Linux Pangiun) and tell us the sky is falling with FUD. So far I have not heard anyone boast that MS is the perfect Operating software by any means, and whatever means Redmond reached the top nepharious or not, right or wrong, their at the top and will be the biggest game in town. Everyone (APPLE, MS, LINUX) stole from somebody and besides, Linux is UNIX anyway -- Just free and more power to them, I have a soft spot in my heart to give any pressure to MS to attempt to build, steal, or borrow a better product that I can personally and professionally use.

I come here to read the articles to see what Microsoft is up to, er' what their not up to and I am no shill by any means, but I chose the Microsoft Platform because I learn to use it, learn to harness the technology and consequently to pay my bills and afford my family the best I can do.

Whatever happened to the good ole' days when the word Hacker meant something good anyways?

I know I'm off subject here, but if you are a Linux Shill -- Go to a Linux site, same with you Apple guys -- This is MS Watch and I could personally care two bits about the 1% of the computing world, really who gives a rat's arse.

Is the 1% paying my Mortage, my car payments, my kid's college and my Green's Fees?

NOPE...

There you have it folks !
A "real world" example from Mr. Douglas S. Taylor, not biased one way or the other, just a real person wanting to use software for his living.
I have said previously on Microsoft Watch that preferring not to buy MS products should go to Linux watch as he is a "Linux User".
The same applies to users to Apple !
I am not "against" either but WHY gone on about "your" preferred OS here, as I said to Chips "go to Linux watch and be happy:)"
People who "use" Microsoft products should be here, those who don't should go to there respective website whether it be Linux, Apple or what ever.
Why do they have to make a nuisance of themselves here and be nasty while they are here. This site "should be" for people who have an interest in microsoft products and their experiences using said products.
Not people that come on this site say things like "I use Linux/Apple and Windows is S**t, you should use Linux/Apple !"
We made our choice just like you did, we don't need you to come here and always "knock" our OS of choice. I am sure there are people out there that have had some osrt of trouble with Windows.
And no I am not saying that Windows is crap, even in Apple or Linux I am sure there are times when your OS has given you some sort of trouble.
I am sure that when ALL of the people from Linux and Apple go to their own sites, that we will get a more representative sample of opinion on this one.

Thanks Neil, you said it all on what I am feeling in less words, I got long winded. Perhaps I was venting out some of my frustration here -- Reality is reality. I don't go to Linux Watch to bash them, or Apple -- Instead I encourage and applaud those guys.

Anything to push Microsoft to build, borrow, buy-out or whatever anyone wants to call it tobring forth a better product.

Take a look at FireFox and the boys and gals in the Mozilla camp -- If it were'nt for them, we'd still be stuck with IE 6.0.

I thank god for all those who "create" "motivate" and "empower" and all the folks INCLUDING Joe to "inform" the Windows and Microsoft community.

Now I am going to play with my CS3 Creative Studio because it is what I do...

And thanks again everyone at Microsoft Watch on keeping an eye on things in Redmond.

It may be true that some other companies engage in FUD. But few of them consistently engage in it as often, as clumsily, and in a manner as easily exposed, as Microsoft. It's almost as if Microsoft requires some of its people to be FUDmeisters; and to be stupid FUDmeisters at that!

On the other hand, I guess that's what happens when a company that prides itself on innovation and attention to customer needs stops innovating and caring about customers -- something which Microsoft did a long, long time ago.

Finally, it really doesn't matter if a whole lot of other companies engage in the same deceptive tactics as Microsoft. FUD is FUD, and FUD is wrong, no matter who spreads it.

Joe Wilcox, please double-check your definition of "FUD".. Not a single one of those statements would induce any sort of fear, uncertainty, or doubt.

Well, maybe from a "I'm iPhone's marketing manager" or "I'm Symbian OS's marketing manager" point of view, but even that is a brooooaaaad stretch.

Learn yer acronyms, man.

The 270,000 iPhones you refer to in the article is the number of phones shipped to the "channel" - Apple Stores, AT&T stores, etc. This is not the number SOLD to consumers or phones activated. That number was roughly half the number of phones shipped to the channel.