I think that Microsoft should be most grateful that VCSY's CEO Richard Wade accepted a settlement that made it look as though Microsoft hadn't been harming VCSY for all these years.

Wade could have let the two go before the judge at the Markman Hearing and Microsoft could have had injunctions put on all of their SharePoint and .Net FrameWork products and risked being guilty of INDUCING INFRINGEMENT on approx. 6,000 partners. IMO

YEAH, it's a new day for Microsoft at the expense of VCSY Shareholders. IMO!!

Happy Thanksgiven Day to all!!!

I guess I-man has reason to give thanks that Joe has never kept his promise to ban him for his Very Constant Spam Yabbering

How is your precious VCSY looking now after the bilski decision hey? Not looking too tough now hey??

I reckon microsoft is already taking legal steps to end the relationship and nullify the patents that are just software and dont pass the real tests for patentablility.

Too bad VCSY is gonna go bankrupt. LOL

@Joe

Here are the ten reasons the public should be grateful to microsoft: from your ten reasons.

10: For showing us how badly they need decent advertising talent

9: For proving how utterly crappy silverlight is and how it cannot do the job it was meant to do.

8: For getting rid of the buffoon who started this illegal software cartel.

7: for showing us how desperate microsoft is to kill google by showing us more crap vapourware.

6: dont know anything about this event but im sure there were lots of high fives and back slapping.

5: for showing us how to destroy a company even though it has 25 billion in the bank. ie make no money from any busines division unless its windows and office.

4: Bring out a new windows version , only its the same thing we have already got. same kernel same bloat and sme bad performance.

3: To Jerry Yang for preserving choice in an industry well known for being bought out by microsoft.

2: To the morons for showing us how stupid big business is by paying a subscription fee quarterly for crap software that they could source for free. and that free software would be really massively better as well. lol idiot businesses.

1: To google for showing us that someone can stand up to microsoft and its monopolistic practices.

Joe, I found KitKat's ten reasons, to be far far better thought out and truthful than yours. KitKat was excellent. Which has to say something about the rich quality of what you have been, shoveling, err, I mean writing for awhile now as a Microsoft advocate. Not sure advocate is the right word, how about promoter? Promoter of the MS phone, for example, which consumers are NOT crying out for everywhere. Whats your angle, Joe? Looking for that free laptop before Seven goes gold, or what?

A future so bright Tux needs shades
http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3126
To hear Linux Foundation executive director Jim Zemlin tell it, the operating system war is over and Linux has won. (Rockies Brewing makes other fine beers, too.)

“Linux represents the ultimate flight to safety in troubled times,” he said while offering some predictions for 2009.

“People want a platform they trust, that’s low cost, that allows them to consolidate infrastructure, and that’s Linux.

“Everyone uses Linux. It’s in the TV, it’s in your TiVo, it’s in all the settop boxes, it’s in your Sony camera. Make a trade on the NYSE and it’s there, search on Google and it’s Linux. Linux owns 85% of the supercomputer market. I’ve seen Linux in a milking machine.”

If Linux were a corporate effort its CEO would be into champagne wishes and caviar dreams. As it is, however, Zemlin is just looking for steady growth next year.

“Linux has now reached a critical mass,” he concluded. “It would take billions of dollars to rewrite a kernel, or harden any operating system across all these forms of computing.”

If you want to make money next year, learn Linux.
“One of our biggest bottlenecks is going to be talent. My advice for engineers who are looking to weather this storm is learn Linux.” Then you’ll be toasting 2010 with Jim Zemlin as your sommelier.

If I may, instead, I would like to thank Microsoft.
-
Thank you for producing software that encouraged me to try open source and opened my eyes to a world of functionality and reliability.
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Thank you for showing me that a free alternative is better than a proprietary one.
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Thank you for producing Vista and giving me a good reason to go 100% MS free.
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Thank you for the MS shillers, who make promoting the benefits of open source so much simpler.
-
and finally thank you for Steve Ballmer and his "unique" behaviour which has created so many funny and cringeworthy youtube clips.

Yang and Windows 7 would be my top picks; and I'm no fan of Big Brother Google.

If the tech industry had an "Idiot of The Year" award, Yang would get it hands down.

To everybody that broke the Java Platform making into Vendor specific.

I give thanks to Microsoft for making a platform that I can create and sell software for that is used by more than just 1 or 2% of the people.

I am a programmer and I tried to install Linux one time and gave up... good luck to all those people I have to instruct where to type in a URL or where the "Start" button is.

@Ron
Youre a programmer and you "tried to install Linux one time and gave up" - Wow you must be a red hot coder. I really hope the company I work for doesnt employ you. Tried once and gave up? You cant even install Linux?
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"good luck to all those people I have to instruct where to type in a URL"
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What sort of people are you instructing? I dont know about anyone else but I use Firefox. As for the start button, isnt the task bar obvious enough?
Oh dear.
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and you claim to be writing software for Windows? lol.
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Does anyone believe Ron?
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I would call you a shill, but even shillers are not this stupid.

@Ron
I also forgot to mention, our neighbours kid (who is 14) installed Linux himself. Would you like some lessons from him? (Im sure he wouldnt mind helping you) He can also show you where "the start button is" and answer any problems you might have.
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I meant to ask, what is your language of choice?
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You wont answer, but at least I can have some fun at your expense.

I think many users think they've done a hard Windows installation when they turn on their new computer and are asked what timezone they are in.

I think many non-computer literate users are completely intimidated by installing an OS whether Linux or Windows. Certainly screens about partitioning and formatting hard drives can look pretty daunting on any operating system. I think if people have a choice and get Linux pre-installed (like Windows) then they are happy enough. There are a few systems out there that do that, namely the OLPC, various other netbooks and a few options from more progressive vendors. Anyway once installed its equally easy to run the Browser from either Linux or Windows and that's all many people really want.

Goblin :
Ha,ah,ha very funny.

@Marco
I really hope Ron wasnt a MS shill, otherwise I think MS should ask for their money back.
I bet my eldest lad could do a better shilling job than that and hes only 8.
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Id like to think hes a Linux user and decided the best way to promote Linux is to post such a silly pro-MS one.
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Or maybe he does consider himself a coder on the Windows platform, and uses one of those ultra-high level game creators believing hes a developer. There is no pro-coder on this planet that would have issues with installing an OS and certainly no coder would try it once and give up. How on earth would someone learn how to code, if they were only prepared to try it once and then give up?
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I think the truth behind Ron is that he is probably a child who doesnt understand what Linux is, but wants to be involved in the debate.

I believe "the child who doesnt understand" will be the MS customer base of the future, everyone else will be using Mac or Linux. (Hopefully the later)

@Goblin :

Ron says:
"Youre a programmer and you "tried to install Linux one time and gave up" - Wow you must be a red hot coder. I really hope the company I work for doesnt employ you. Tried once and gave up? You cant even install Linux?
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"good luck to all those people I have to instruct where to type in a URL"
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What sort of people are you instructing? I dont know about anyone else but I use Firefox. As for the start button, isnt the task bar obvious enough?
Oh dear.
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and you claim to be writing software for Windows? lol.".........................

This is really "rich." A MS coder that doesn't know where to find the start button. Just a good guess, Ron must have been one of those "coders" that developed Vi$ta, and made that into such a bloated pig with lipstick.

Now the rest of you open source proponents my have accepted the new bunch of astroturds/shillers here, but do not expect me to cut them a whole lot of slack. They are only here to advertise for Microsoft and cut down and put a hole in everyone else's work. They care not for us who use computers, only for their greed.

@The Hand
LOL, I like the bit about Vista. It would certainly explain alot if Ron was behind it.
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I dont think Ron is really a threat to anything (accept maybe the image of MS) I dont even think an MS shiller would support Rons comments.
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I think we can safely say Ron isnt a coder. Infact I would be surprised if Ron could even program his video recorder to tape a tv show.
-

I've been using linux on servers and at home since 1996. I'm using Mac OS X to post this over a wireless network I set up (cisco).

Ron's comment:
"good luck to all those people I have to instruct where to type in a URL or where the "Start" button is.
"

I'd say he's correct. There are plenty of people that have trouble with simple things. Ubuntu has raised the bar in terms of being easy to install and to use. Regardless of any improvement made in the GUI or OS there WILL always be people who find typing URLs and setting up printers etc complicated.

How do I know this? Because I charge people money to help them! (Yes, even to find the Start button!)

@Dave
Qoute Dave "I've been using linux on servers and at home since 1996. I'm using Mac OS X to post this over a wireless network I set up (cisco)."
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Well I dont know about anyone else, but im convinced hes a true expert. Would you like me to explain my credentials before I make a post? Im posting this whilst using Ubuntu on a wireless network I set up. Does that make me an expert too? I can post my programming background and higher education if you think it will help.
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Quote "How do I know this? Because I charge people money to help them! (Yes, even to find the Start button!)"
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Id say that type of user would experience difficulties no matter if the platform was Windows/Linux/Mac. To suggest that Linux is somehow missing a taskbar which is similar enough to a Windows one is just silly.
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"Ubuntu has raised the bar in terms of being easy to install and to use."
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Certainly with out of the box functionality of hardware, but are you really saying that the simple things such as loading software are really that different between OS/distro's?
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Quote Ronald Mcdonald "good luck to all those people I have to instruct where to type in a URL or where the "Start" button is."
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If people are this much of a beginner then they are going encounter the same problems on any platform/system. That is because they are beginners, NOT because Linux (as Ron implies) is apparently so complex, the simple tasks cannot be completed without help.
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I would put to you the same question that I put to Ron. What sort of people are you helping? I could understand if you were helping them install their printer or WIFI, but start button? Come on.
As I look at my screen, in the top left I have the items Applications (drop down menu) Places (drop down menu) System (drop down menu) if people find these things a challenge with Linux, how would they cope with the many issues of Vista that require you to "get your hands dirty" whilst trying to fix them.
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For anyone to even try to justify Rons remarks is insulting to mine and everyones intelligence here. (IMO)
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and if as you claim, you are being paid money to help people, please do your research before you give them any more advice. Ubuntu is not the only distro that has a friendly and simple instalation method. I think you will find this a common feature of most mainstream, popular distros (and infact most of them in general)
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Helping people with the start button? Get paid to help people with the start button? I think Ill set up my own company. Ill make a fortune.

Can I also retract a previous statement I made:
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"I would call you a shill, but even shillers are not this stupid."
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I was obviously wrong....they are that stupid.

Goblin :
something more about shills (I wrote it sometime ago)
Some extra thoughts :
Is there a manner to differentiate a fanatic from a Shill?
Yes, generally the fanatic exaggerates (eg: Bill is a God! or something like that) while the Shill has more control over him/herself, but simply attacks everyone who says something negative about her/his Boss (well, that is their principal function, is it not?)
And are there intelligent MS's fans?
Yes, but they are not many- you recognise them because they are close to pragmatism, they defend the good and recognise the evil (really is hard defend to MS.)
Therefore, should we censor shills? Of course not, we should only recognise them to understand them and as to not to feel irritated by their apparent nonsense (answering them when needs be) Really, if we think about it, their situation is pathetic, trying to seem more stupid than they actually are to gain a small salary or present (laptop?) and all that because they do not have enough intelligence to be productive by themselves (unlike for example to Joe) without the need to bend over.
-----------------
"I was obviously wrong....they are that stupid" Goblin; it could be :I was obviously wrong....they are that somewhat 'slow'

@Goblin
quote: "Well I dont know about anyone else, but im convinced hes a true expert.

Thanks for the sarcasm.

I've used linux from the slackware days through to the present.
Because of this I know *exactly* how it has developed in terms of ease of installation and general day-to-day use. I've seen (and fixed) plenty of installations that didn't work due to whatever driver wasn't supported or something was misconfigured.

Quote:"Id say that type of user would experience difficulties no matter if the platform was Windows/Linux/Mac.

Agreed.

Quote: "To suggest that Linux is somehow missing a taskbar which is similar enough to a Windows one is just silly."

I didn't. You made that up.

Actually Linux can be customised such that doesn't have a taskbar (or any GUI). So can Windows.

Quote "Certainly with out of the box functionality of hardware, but are you really saying that the
simple things such as loading software are really that different between OS/distro's?"

No. You are.

My point is that there are plenty of people who find computers "hard". They aren't idiots. It's just not something they are interested in. They want to know what is necessary, do what they need to do and then move onto something else.

Quote :"If people are this much of a beginner then they are going encounter the same problems on any platform/system.

Correct. I'm not denying this.

Quote:"What sort of people are you helping? I could understand if you were helping them install their printer or WIFI,
but start button? Come on."

I'm helping people who have little or no familiarity with computers as well as people who are simply too busy.

Quote: " and if as you claim, you are being paid money to help people, please do your research before you
give them any more advice. Ubuntu is not the only distro that has a friendly and simple instalation
method. I think you will find this a common feature of most mainstream, popular distros
(and infact most of them in general)"

I didn't write that Ubuntu was the only distro. You implied that.

Quote: "I think Ill set up my own company. Ill make a fortune."

Good. It's certainly been good for me.

This article is so interesting, that I can see the brown nose of the writer comming throught the words. Gee, there's also a smell around...
What a waste of time!

@Dave

Quote Dave "I didn't. You made that up. "
I never implied you were saying that. Please read my post in context properly. What I was saying was YOU WERE DEFENDING THE POSITION OF SOMEONE WHO WAS.
-
Notice how I included Rons quote (who incidently hasnt come back...I wonder why?)See how I called him Ronald Macdonnald? See now? You post an opinion defending the sillyness of Ron and expect no comeback?
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Right Dave, next we will move onto your next part.
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First post Dave says "There are plenty of people that have trouble with simple things."
Thats very different to his second post that says "I'm helping people who have little or no familiarity with computers as well as people who are simply too busy."
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Would you have clarified who you were talking about if you hadnt been challenged? Your first post implied it was many people across the board, then when challenged you admit its mostly new users.
How can you defend Ronald Macdonnalds post, when by your own admition, new users are going to have problems with a platform regardless. If you are going to agree with an anti Linux stance at least justify it properly.
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Dave said "I didn't write that Ubuntu was the only distro. You implied that. "
Would it have been too difficult to say instead "most modern distros have raised the bar...."
IMO by only naming one, you imply by default that its the only one available with that feature. Its a technique (IMO) used by the ignorant pretending to have a deeper knowledge or a MS shill.
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I could go on, but people here can read your first post and then your response and decide what type of help you offer to people. I am pulling you up on basics here Dave and at the end of the day it was you agreeing with the Sillyness of Ronnald Mcdonnald. IF you are in IT support and IF you couldnt recognize that Rons post was just sillyness, from someone who'd never used Linux and was telling lies or an MS Shill) then I have grave doubts about the level of service you could offer anyone. Are you saying you believe Ron is really a coder? Dave, come on.
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But hey, we are judged by the people reading this, and in light of very little new news here, theyve probably got a bit of time on their hands to do it.
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Just out of interest, what platform do you help people on?

Joe,

Are you feeling ok, or tell me Microsoft is holding your pet dog to ransom or something!

@Goblin, my guess is Ron is actually Andre. Because:
a) Posts gibberish and doesn't reply to responses.
b) Bad grammar
c) Talks about Linux and the legendary 1%-2% market share.

I would also venture to say there is some hidden meaning in the name as Ron is Spanish for Rum a very Jamaican product. As some of us know here Andre is from that Caribbean country.

@Gerado
Hi!
You could be right, however would Andre post something so silly that would hold no worth?.....hang on what am I saying...of course he would!
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Talking about the mighty Andre, his blogs not going to well at the moment. It appears MS cant stop it being flooded with spam.
If people want unbias IT news Andres blog is probably not the best bet. If you want to buy perfume or Nike trainers its probably the best place to go at the moment.

Hi,

First of all I came to this post by luck and I am not going to settle here. So, no reply will be given.

Now we clarified that please notice that Joe talks about why MICROSOFT SHOULD GIVE THANKS. Not us, Not open source community, not the planet, Not the whole universe. Just Microsoft, from Microsofts point of view. Is that so difficult to understand? Is that so difficult to focus on the subject?

Another thing is that I think Goblin is an idiot. At least, he is a shiller for Linux. I don't care that he is doing it for free. That is his problem.

Mr/Mrs Goblin (and others). Please stop acting like "the Inquisition". Everyone has the right of choice. You are not God so you don't have the knowledge of "Good" and "Evil". You are just one of us.

Linux might be an operating system, but it isn't operative. Linux has demands on the user. That is it's main problem. That is why windows are preferred over Linux.

Linux is preferred over Microsoft on servers because of its cost and that is all. Ok, some might think it is superior but the truth is that it isn't. That doesn't mean it is inferior to windows.

The best tool is the one you know to use better. The best tool is the one you can use with ease.

When the only thing you need, is to browse your folders and edit your text documents and you know to use Windows 95 and Word 95 then this is the best. Why should you even try to use Suse 3000 and open office 4.982.112 ?

Do you know about KISS?
KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid
Microsoft achieved to implement KISS philosophy. Linux failed. That is the reason the world is Microsoft oriented.

Linux has made huge steps in the past years because some understood that this is the problem. I think though, that there is a lot space to cover before it goes mainstream.

Microsoft makes mistakes. Who doesn't? They don't have the perfect products, but they are among the best. Their bank account proves it. Let's assume that this is not a proof. Their bank account is still full so who cares?

I make a living on Microsoft technologies (not a Microsoft employee in any way or form). I don't owe to Microsoft anything; I just don't find Linux useful for my needs. When I do, I will adopt. This is called survival.

Linux has potentials. It just needs more time and a slight philosophy shift. Time is money and Microsoft has them. That is why Microsoft is ahead.

@Passing
Great way to back out of a debate. Make some remarks (some rude ones) while stating you wont come back and implying you wont read. LOL.
-
We all know you will be reading this reply, and will be itching to make another (although you've committed yourself now) Im going to have to work hard here to give you the courage to respond again.
-
Passing said "Microsoft achieved to implement KISS philosophy"
So why to many people not understand all Ms's recent schemes, I would also anyone to ask an "average user" what .net is. or how about Azure? See what response you get. That KISS statement is probably about the silliest claim Ive ever seen made about MS.
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Passing said "veryone has the right of choice. You are not God so you don't have the knowledge of "Good" and "Evil". You are just one of us."
-
Maybe youre a little confused, or maybe youve made a mistake. If, as you suggest you have read my previous posts, you would have seen that infact the only position I take is one of "give it a trial" see if you like it. Ive already admitted that some people are better off with MS products and Ive said many times that its the freedom of choice I support. I know youre reading so please quote me where I play God.
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Passing, youre not a good shiller are you? Youve provided so much obvious sillyness and fodder, I would love to spend alot longer picking holes in it.
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Passing says"Linux might be an operating system, but it isn't operative. Linux has demands on the user. That is it's main problem. That is why windows are preferred over Linux."
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I wont argue that point, its obvious you've never used Linux. What about YOUR vista issues then?
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Quote passing "I make a living on Microsoft technologies (not a Microsoft employee in any way or form)."
-
There we have something in common. So do I. I may have to be trapped in the .net at work but I believe I am in a position to make a fair comment as I run Linux at home. The wife has a Mac, but if you look at my previous posts you will see I never make comments about it without saying first that I have not used it much. I do not have enough Mac experience to make any definitive judgment on it.
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Quote passing "Microsoft makes mistakes. Who doesn't? They don't have the perfect products, but they are among the best. Their bank account proves it."
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Well thats me convinced, they have a big bank account so they must be good. I hope MS shareholders are looking at the great justifications Passing is making here. It seems the best way to justify MS is by its bank account.
I also hope that customers of MS are looking at this, as to me its suggesting MS products are great because MS has so much money. - Ever thought of a PR job passing?
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Quote Passing "The best tool is the one you can use with ease. "
Since you are talking about MS products here, I am surprised you missed the irony in that statement" (and you've also quoted something ive said on numerous occasions)
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Come on Passing, we know you shill, we know you are reading, come back and justify your opinions properly. Lets have a proper comparison and discussion about WINDOWS FEATURES and LINUX FEATURES. If as you say I am stupid, then you can get your point across easily. How about doing what no other shiller has done to date. Lets have a down and dirty discussion at the Kernel level. Lets really get to the bottom of which system offers what.
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and I hope if you do return, you'll maybe try to avoid being offensive.
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Now let me get back to my shilling!?!?
- Wait Im not getting paid for this? DOH.

Oh and can I add, Passing said "First of all I came to this post by luck and I am not going to settle here. "
-
So you came here by luck, and happen to know of me and my previous posting.
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Come on, youre a regular reader under a different name, thats obvious - The fact that you would try such a blatant tactic, is insulting to me and eveyone else if you thought we would fall for it.

@Goblin

You say "Ive said many times that its the freedom of choice I support" yet you feel the need to challenge and comment (some rude ones) on anyone not sharing your opinion

You also bring up Azure and .NET with KISS. Not everyone has to know about something for it to be simple.

@Cross
Are you reading the same site I am?
I am sure Ive been called: "Stupid","egg salad sandwich eater","Shiller" and many more (check back yourself) Yes I challenge rudeness with rudeness. Want to actually quote me properly? Did I not say I liked Jess (a pro-ms poster) did I not say I thought she was honest?
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Have I not in the past supported anyone who was open and honest about their reasons for using Windows, and have I not agreed that in some cases the people posting are better off with Windows?
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Where I challenge people is when they make sweeping (and incorrect statements) in order to promote something.
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You said "You also bring up Azure and .NET with KISS. Not everyone has to know about something for it to be simple."
-
Lets have a little fairness. The original comment was directed towards Linux as a whole, it was an untrue statement, so I simply suggested that if we are going refer like for like, many MS products and features are not simple/known. To me the KISS ideology is not only for the using of a product but for a product awareness aswell. If the original poster is going generalize and suggest that Linux cannot be simple for everyone (except for Ron, the programmer who tried once and gave up) then I think its only fair I exchange like for like.
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Cross, If you are going to make remarks about my posting and/or style at least research the subject properly. Have I not always maintained that people do their own research and come to their own conclusions? Have I not always said the most important opinion is your own.
I consider any pro-linux/mac stance here a balance to a pro-ms one.
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You see the problem with shillers, and/or people who just want to post a silly remark (Ron) dont have the knowledge to come back and debate properly, so they will post a message and then either never post again, or they will change the subject.
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Look at the tactics used on this site by the user "Passing" who claimed he had come here by chance, and was not going to return after his post (oh and he coincidently knew about me)
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I (and most other pro-Linux posters) have used MS products for many years (and in some cases still do) and we have Linux on our machines aswell. Why would I, who makes a living using MS products at work champion the open source cause if it was no good? Why would I waste my time?
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Do you believe I was rude to Ron? What about Andre? Are you saying you agree with the pro Vista stance? - Great debate it.
and if I am as anti-social as you suggest, why do I chat politely (and enjoy doing so) with Jess - a self confessed MS employee with a love of their software?
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Id love to hear your next character examination of me, but please before making sweeping remarks find the posts of mine you wish to challenge. I cannot justify myself to you if I dont know which ones youre talking about.

@Goblin
What makes you think Passing could not have formed this opinion from simply reading the posts here?
-
"Quote Passing "The best tool is the one you can use with ease. "
Since you are talking about MS products here, I am surprised you missed the irony in that statement"
There are plenty of simple MS tools. Tweak UI for example, isn't a complex tool at all. Select the category, change the options you want (full descriptions are given) and save.
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I'm not saying I agree with a pro Vista stance.
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Whenever you specify a version of Windows you bring up Vista. Why not XP? Is it because XP was a more user friendly OS? Is it because Vista has so many aspects that can be bashed?
-
-
"See how I called him Ronald Macdonnald?"
"I would be surprised if Ron could even program his video recorder to tape a tv show."
"I think the truth behind Ron is that he is probably a child who doesnt understand what Linux is."
"You wont answer, but at least I can have some fun at your expense."
"I would call you a shill, but even shillers are not this stupid."
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My mistake, these comments you've made can't possibly be rude.
-
I'm not suggesting you're anti-social, you've come up with that one yourself.

Quote Cross "What makes you think Passing could not have formed this opinion from simply reading the posts here? "
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Are you really saying that he could draw an inference that I was a linux shill and name me, after coming here by chance once and not posting again? Are you seriously saying you buy that?
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I will repeat for a second time. The KISS statement I made was in the spirit of like for like. The original poster made a generalization about Linux. I did about Windows. I do not like repeating myself and I did make this clear before.
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Quote "Whenever you specify a version of Windows you bring up Vista. Why not XP? Is it because XP was a more user friendly OS? Is it because Vista has so many aspects that can be bashed?"
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If you are going to make comments about me, make sure that you dont misrepresent me. I have infact made comments on this site about XP and I believe I have used the words "Stable" "Nice" in the same sentence, so you are wrong (and Im sorry to ruin your character examination of me)
-
Please in future do your research (as I have asked before) The reason why I dont mention XP much is the fact that MS shillers and the topics here tend to be on more modern softwares. As soon as theres another XP topic I would certainly post on it.
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If you believed that Ron was a serious person, then thats your issue. I again responded like for like. Do you believe Ron could be a real person making a statement like that?
Maybe you do, because you seem to think I am being rude to him. You did not mention Jess, because that didnt fit with your misrepresentation of me. I believe Jess is a real person, and I think you'll find I am polite to her. Infact I think she said to me once "thanks for the compliment" after I said something nice about her. (and she works for MS so certainly doesnt share my views)
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Quote "I'm not suggesting you're anti-social, you've come up with that one yourself."
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So saying Im rude to people who dont share my view ISNT calling me antisocial? er ok, maybe we have different definitions of the scope of the word.
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Come on Cross, if this is the sole basis for your challenge of me, I really dont see what point you are trying to make. Im sure since this is an old thread people wont mind us continuing our conversation.
Thats if you come back.

@Goblin
Just a point f interest, but can you actually tell me where I sid you were rude in my original post before you inferredit?
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I'm not searching this site for your other posts as you seem to expect, my comments are based on what is here on this page. Not unlike Passing, I've only found this through another site.
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I didn't bring up the KISS point a second time, the comments about tools and you implying Microsoft had no simple ones was not about KISS.
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You also bring up Jess on multiple occasions, but no one else. Seems a little strange that you only bring her up and no one else.

HI,
I have to say Microsoft has benefited from these points but so have other companies.
Also, Cross, you said "some rude one's" in your first post. Some points valid, some not so.
And Goblin, from your posts here I do find you rude to anyone making "seeping statements". They come to a conclusion and you debate it. You also seem to make a lot out of nothing.

@GTom
Id be interested to know and also for you to show me my rudeness to sweeping comments.
As I say before, any response is "like for like".
The comment "a lot out of nothing" puzzles me.
If you mean by challenging, false, misleading, wrong information and defending myself and position when inference is drawn, then fair enough, In guilty. I would though rather be guilty of that then leave it as a pro-ms free for all when many people may be led down an inappropriate computing path.
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I am very careful how I post. Ive seen first hand how certain pro-ms's will seek to belittle/humiliate others in an attempt to peddle their proprietary wares. Thats why my posts are littered with "(IMO)" lest my motives come across as underhanded as theirs.
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I thought the point of this site was to debate, and if people cant challenge sweeping statements without being classed as rude or making a lot out of nothing, then its a bad job.

Sorry and I missed the post of Cross in replying to GTman.

Cross said "I'm not searching this site for your other posts as you seem to expect, my comments are based on what is here on this page. Not unlike Passing, I've only found this through another site."
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Well then dont pass judgement on me on the basis of half facts. I would consider it unfair and dishonest is you are prepared to make a remark about me and not even be bothered to check out your facts first.
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You say, "not unlike passing" I could be forgiven for thinking that was a little too coincidental. Two people stumbling up this thread, two people making a judgement about me without researching....strange...Ill give you the benefit of the doubt though and let others decide.
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You said "I didn't bring up the KISS point a second time, the comments about tools and you implying Microsoft had no simple ones was not about KISS."
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So what was it about then?
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You said "You also bring up Jess on multiple occasions, but no one else. Seems a little strange that you only bring her up and no one else."
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Yes because unlike your handle and "passing" she posts under the same name regularly and I know Im talking to the same person. I cannot for certain say that you are not "passing", I do believe that Jess remains the same and is a good example of a pro-ms opinion that I speak with politely (unlike your suggestion that I cannot do so)
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Please, I find it very insulting that you believe you can try to get around my points, you havent appologized or even corrected yourself over the XP comment you made and you've further proved to me that you are trying to "fudge" around the responses Ive given.

and for some reason this point didnt print on my last post.
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Cross said "Just a point f interest, but can you actually tell me where I sid you were rude in my original post before you inferredit?
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Certainly, my pleasure. Your first post which started our conversation where you said:
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"You say "Ive said many times that its the freedom of choice I support" yet you feel the need to challenge and comment (some rude ones) on anyone not sharing your opinion"
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I hadnt even spoken to you before then, need anymore clarification?

You find it insulting?
You don't seem to care about insulting anyone else

Around in circles.
You make allegations about me. You refuse to back them up and admit you havent even tried.
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You try challenging me with a claim, only problem is you forgot what you had typed when we first started talking.
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You coincidently come here with a similar story to "passing"
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You refuse to retract your previous statements about me.
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and last but not least, you wont respond to any of my justifications, and the only response you can think of is: "You find it insulting?
You don't seem to care about insulting anyone else"
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Yes, I do find it insulting. Id rather you called me a shill/geek/egg sandwich eater etc then actually believe you could belittle my views with the weak/flawed and downright wrong argument you've put forward, you cant change your posts and neither can I. I stand by my comments and let others read them. I dont need to say anymore, if people are still reading this thread they will have seen this exchange and thats good enough for me.
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I would say it was fun. But it wasnt.

@Everyone else.
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Ill direct this at everyone else, as I dont think we will get anymore from "Cross"
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The most classic part of his comment "You find it insulting?
You don't seem to care about insulting anyone else"
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was the fact that by his own admition:
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"I'm not searching this site for your other posts as you seem to expect.."
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So how on earth would he know that I dont seem to care about insulting anyone else?

You've made enough posts here to come to that conclusion

Ah, ok.
So you accuse me of something that by your own admition you wont research and find out the truth/real facts. ok.
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You forget what youve typed on a thread we are both reading and you refuse to take back the incorrect things you've said about me? ok.
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Yep, youre right, Im the rude one here.
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Much as I would like to talk to a person who cant seem bothered to hold a proper argument, its late. Im off to bed now. Ill certainly be reading tomorrow to catch up on any sly little one liners you might try to add. (as your posting style suggests you will)
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I hope you dont mind, but in the spirit of fairness and allow more people to judge who is the rude one and who actually has the ability to hold a proper conversation, Ill be linking this thread on my site.
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I thank you for letting me have this opportunity.
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All the best.
Goblin.

Of course I can't be bothered, I just made two comments and you've come back with line after line of carry on. Why would I waste anymore of my time?
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I'm not saying you're the only rude one here, or that I haven't been, but ok.
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Maybe I'll do as you suggest and not come back then.

@Cross
Firstly as you have a habit of forgetting what you type, have a look back and see who was the one who instigated and continued this bizarre exchange of posts. If you dont want to come back, fine.
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You said "Why would I waste anymore of my time?" and Id say it wasnt a waste of time. What I would suggest though is you concentrate so you do forget what your are typing to me, and Id also suggest you should have commented on the fact that I answered the numerous points put to me, and if it was such as waste of time why did you respond at all. Youve admitted youre not interested in finding out real facts. Why did you come back.
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Yet again, your posting integrity comes through.
You said "Maybe I'll do as you suggest and not come back then."
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I never said that, and I dont suppose I will get an appology for that untruthful comment of yours either.
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I am not going to call you a shiller, because I honestly cant see why anyone would pay you money to post in such a dishonest way about me and so obvious as well (forgetting about an apparent lack of IT knowledge as the only subject they could debate with the details of how I typed, not the subject at hand).
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Id suggest in future when you come back under another different name you plan your responses more carefully, lest you again fall into the holes that you dig for yourself, and if youre going to challenge a statement, at least remember what you've typed in a previous post.
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Hey? Maybe Ive found a gap in the market? Training wouldbe shillers with posting advice. I reckon I could make a good go of that, theres plenty of people needing help out there.

"Thats if you come back."
" I dont think we will get anymore from "Cross"
"
Apparently i'm not the only one forgetting what I've previously said.
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You expect an apology, but I haven't seen you apologise to Ron, Dave or Passing, no matter how ridiculous there comments may seem.
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You began the whole debate over your commenting with Passing and then me.
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"Id suggest in future when you come back under another different name"
Why would I come back under a different name if at all You've put me off looking at any other aspects of this site.

What is wrong with you?
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How can you take my comment of "Ill direct this at everyone else, as I dont think we will get anymore from "Cross""
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How on earth can you suggest that my comment in anyway suggested you shouldnt come back. I would never say to anyone not to come back, and everyone here has just a right as me to post (shiller,duplicate namer,sock puppets alike)
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I didnt THINK you WOULD come back as you'd embarrassed yourself with your little "forgetting" incident (and not having any answer for any of my responses to your questions).
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It was obvious you couldnt find a relevant point, and yet again youre telling lies by implying that I suggested you leave. (Notice how I said @everyone)
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Either read things properly or come over to my Posting Advice 101 lessons. Either way I am beginning to feel embarrassed for you.

"Why would I come back under a different name if at all You've put me off looking at any other aspects of this site."
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Very clever, make yourself out to be the martyr when it was you that started this, you that continued this and you that posted the lies.
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If youre not mature enough to understand that we are talking about irrelevant issues here and not mature enough to realise that using a handle instantly makes you anon, then you have my pity.
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Your poor statements are what have let you down, not my actions. I gave offers to debate a sensible subject, you ignored them with more un-researched remarks about me. I answered those remarks and you ignored them and then went off making allegations about me that you had forgotten you had typed yourself.
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Anyway, I thought you said your situation was the same as "Passing".
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Right, now onto everyone: (thats everyone Cross, not you individually, I dont want you getting confused again)
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This type of post (above) has been common place since I posted anti-ms comments on a certain site. I have been repeatedly targeted by users who sought to cheapen and belittle. I have received a barrage of vulgar and sinister email, I believe all because I support the open-source cause. I was warned by people that my comments may make me a target and it appears they were right.
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Now Im not suggesting for one minute any particular person/group/company is responsible, I havent got any proof, but what I will say is that the attacks aimed at me have started recently.
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Unfortunately for the "attackers" I am not a victim. I am not a "kid living in his parents basement" I am a family man with a wife, kids and an honest held belief that the future is open-source and that its community is probably one of the best things Ive ever discovered on the net.
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If people dont want to read my posts and ignore, thats fine. If people want to debate, great lets debate, but lets do it properly and lets not get into the realms of untruthfulness.
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As for me? I will continue to post as I do, I dont care if you are pro-linux, pro-mac, or pro-ms, everyone has a right to post here, and the only person who gets a say in who can stay is Joe.

There's nothing wrong with me, I'm just replying to your posts and seeing your response.
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I can suggest many things from what you say. Why not? You've done it many people here.
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"Thats if you come back." was said by you in response to me, not @everyone.
I never said or implied you suggested I shouldn't come back. I said maybe i won't come back because you're suggesting that i won't be.
"Maybe I'll do as you suggest and not come back then."
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Indeed everyone does have a right to post here. But they also have the right to post an opinon without it being attacked (no need to spin this back on me, you attack someone's opinion there's a high chance they'll do it back). E.g. my opinion of what KISS means (no matter what application) was quickly challenged by you and your view of the concept.
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I completely understand this is pointless rabble, you've continued it too.
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I make myself out to be a martyr? Ok, but I was just trying to grasp the reasoning behind why I would come back with a different name.
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You don't want me to get confused? First sign of compassion to anyone commenting on this page I've seen.
I feel sorry for Ron, Dave, Passing for having had you there to reply and even insult them (Ronald McDonald?...).
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It's your comments directed at specific people (Ron, Dave, Passing) on this page alone (not your general comments that weren't directed at posters) that invoked all of this (or even those who don't know where to find the Start button or where the Apple or Cloverleaf key is), not whatever else you did in the past. I don't care if you think they are serious people or not, someone still posted it.
I myself have nothing against supporting open source. I have nothing against open source itself, nor for that matter the opposite.
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Time to come true, however.
I'm just posting mostly garbage in spite of you.

I'm not embarrassed for myself, no one here knows who I am.

I'm more embarrassed for you coming back to all the garbage I've said.
From my first post you've come out with these long winded repsonses, so I gave you long winded garbage (like for like). You just kept on coming back with more, so I gave you more.
Call me immature if you will, but you responded just the same.
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I'm afraid I can't come up with a little sob story to end with right now, but oh well.
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I've had my fun, hope you had yours

LOL
"Thats if you come back"
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I didnt think for one minute that you could interpret that as a suggestion to leave. I just thought that when you had embarassed yourself and forgotten what you had previously typed you wouldnt want to come back. If you couldnt tell that the statement I made was to encourage you to do so, thats your problem, not mine.
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You said "right to post an opinon without it being attacked"
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So why did you tell lies about what I said?
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You said "I make myself out to be a martyr? Ok, but I was just trying to grasp the reasoning behind why I would come back with a different name"
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Well, its not hard to grasp is it? You made an allegation about me, only to find out that it was your comment in the first place. Its not my fault if you cant remember what you type. I assumed that maybe you would have a little shame for accusing me of something that you had typed.
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You said you feel sorry for Ron? The "programmer who cant install Linux", and gave up after one go?
Did you read the other comments in regards to him. It was not just me who saw through Rons post. Im sure you do feel sorry for the people you've mentioned, Its not beyond the realms of possibility that they are all you.
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You said "Time to come true, however.
I'm just posting mostly garbage in spite of you."
ok, whatever floats your boat. Do you really think I didnt know that. Why do you think I mentioned about the personal attacks on my previous post? LOL the fact that you continued on, simply highlights to people your real intention here, to make slanderous remarks, lies and to waste my time by posting out of spite. And Im still the rude one?
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You said "I'm not embarrassed for myself, no one here knows who I am."
But then thats not what you implied when you said I put you off this site. Telling lies again?
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You said "'m more embarrassed for you coming back to all the garbage I've said.
From my first post you've come out with these long winded repsonses, so I gave you long winded garbage (like for like). You just kept on coming back with more, so I gave you more.
Call me immature if you will, but you responded just the same.
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I'm afraid I can't come up with a little sob story to end with right now, but oh well."
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I wouldnt call you immature, youve just confirmed something that I already believed. That being those with a pro-ms stance are lurking on the net to fudge and dilute the opinion that ruins their chances of making profit. Whoever you are (and I like I say I cant believe anyone would pay for this type of shilling) you've proved a point perfectly.
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Have I had fun? No not really, there was no challenge at all, and I find it rather distasteful engaging in conversation with who appears to take delight in being deceptive and dishonest.
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Theres still room for you in Posting 101 if you want to apply. I dont think youre immature, because Im not sure what age you actually are, afterall the lies and deception seem to make you have another motive, yet the way you do it is so inexperienced and poor, Im undecided.
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Cross, I really do hope we see you on some proper posts, and I expect we will in some shape or form. Hopefully anyone reading this will be on the lookout in future for signs of your dishonesty in other topics.
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All the best
Goblin.

So you want to continue, well, ok.
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You say "I just thought that when you had embarassed yourself and forgotten what you had previously typed you wouldnt want to come back. If you couldnt tell that the statement I made was to encourage you to do so, thats your problem, not mine."
So in all you were encouraging me not to come back yet you weren't suggesting I leave?

My intention here was to make a point about your attitude towards people like Ron who makes a statement and you and others can't accept it to be serious. (While you take it as a coincidence or whatever else I'm not these other people, otherwise you'd be talking to them not me.)
However, your response only led to keep replying, not matter what your intentions.
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You said "But then thats not what you implied when you said I put you off this site."
What was implied was exactly what was said, there was no hidden message.
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"and I like I say I cant believe anyone would pay for this type of shilling"
Who ever said anything about me being paid to post here? You've repeated yourself again here (as you said you much don't like doing)
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I never said that I was pro anything, I've only commented on my thought's towards open source and the opposite, never saying "pro ms". Too bad amongst others I'm pro Apple too...
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If you really want to know how pepole are coming here without having been before, it's from a link on weekly newsletters.
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Don't worry about my signs you've come up with in other posts, I don't plan on posting on any other discussions on this site, you'd have a few things to say about any comment I make.
These posts are by no means my usual style.

I repeat again, what is wrong with you?
Ill explain, slowly, lest you either tell more lies or quote me as saying something that infact you said.
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Here it is as simple as I can make it. When I said "thats if you come back" it was a very simple bait. I knew your intention to waste my time (afterall how could someone tell lie after lie and actually believe that people were taking them seriously)
I knew you wanted to come back, and I also knew you were trying to make yourself look like a victim so it would distract from all the dishonesty and sillyness you posted.
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Do you understand now? I dont think I can make it any clearer. While you claim you were being clever, and again since you've proved you tell lies, I think the truth was when you realized you had no argument you started to claim you "intended to post rubbish" just so that you could try and salvage something out of it and save a little face.
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You said ""and I like I say I cant believe anyone would pay for this type of shilling"
Who ever said anything about me being paid to post here? "
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Eh? Are you reading what I was saying? Cant you grasp a flippant sarcastic remark aimed at your poor attempts to libel me? Do I really think your posts are worth a shillers dime? Of course not. They are so full of holes I couldnt see you promoting anything. It looks like I will have to repeat all my points, as you simply cant understand.
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"
If you really want to know how pepole are coming here without having been before, it's from a link on weekly newsletters."
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Where did I ask that question? I have no interest in the reader base referal's I merely highlighted that these type of silly attacks are becoming more frequent and even more bizarre.
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Quote Cross "Don't worry about my signs you've come up with in other posts, I don't plan on posting on any other discussions on this site, you'd have a few things to say about any comment I make.
These posts are by no means my usual style."
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You are a proven liar and self admitting deceiver. You will forgive me if I dont believe a word you are saying.
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Now, grow up and post on this site like its intended. If, as you suggest you take joy in wasting peoples time, Im sure you can find other forums to do it in. If you want to post on topics Joe is actually making, then Id love to see your opinions.
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All I ask in future is to try a remember what you have typed. You dont want to look silly again do you?

Now finally, since I believe I am dealing here with a child, I will be the adult and let you have the last word Cross.
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I even promise I will come back and read it.
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So, its over to you Cross, maybe if I let you have the last word, you wont throw a tantrum, and maybe, just maybe you can stop with the lies.
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All the best
Goblin.

After we defined our scope and formulated exclusions, we have to describe applicable QMS processes per ISO 9001 Standard. This task is quite simple. We just need to transform the standard from a set of requirements into your company’s commitment to satisfy those requirements with the appropriate level of details. It also may be a good idea to include in your quality manual a table of contents, company information, procedure index, manual-standard corresponding table and others.

Microsoft should also give thanks to you Goblin, giving open source users everywhere a bad name. Then again, anyone else must be a "Microsoft Shill".

Well, back to watching Andre Da Costa's every move and finding every site Andre's affiliated with.

Firstly the above comment is not mine. Its a strange little crafty one that I only noticed as a result of a redirect on my site.
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I will be linking here on my site though in order to highlight the attempt made to rubbish the linux/open source community.
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Since I havent mentioned "he who cannot be named" for about a week, either here or on my site, I am bemused as to why you'd bring his name up. Maybe he's up to something I should look at. Thanks for the advice.
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Quote "Well, back to watching Andre Da Costa's every move and finding every site Andre's affiliated with."
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Whatever. How would you be able to say that if you were not actually "he who cannot be named"
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Quote "Microsoft should also give thanks to you Goblin, giving open source users everywhere a bad name."
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Thats not what my emails say, nor the latest downloads and praise Open Source has got. Lets play the linking game shall we? Or how about I publish the pages of thanks from users who have made the move from Windows to Linux?
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Please come back. Youre great, and maybe also explain how (like others Ive linked before) like to put sly little posts on out of date threads.
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Thanks for the chuckle, oh and thanks for the link, as I always say I wont link to my own site, so thanks for doing it for me. (but youre a little late, someone else already did that!)

and yes, Andre is back to his old tricks. Hes started with his "rich" posts and little unjustified one liners:
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Quote Andre "Googles search results are beginning to disappoint and Live Search is starting to give good 'results'."
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Yes Andre, of course it does.
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