This is pure gold. It has been a truly interesting year for Microsoft. I didn't think things could get any more interesting than what went on last year. Of course, by interesting year I mean a disastrous year. Two in a row really. However, you completely forgot the Windows Live Wave 3 fiasco, which sort of highlights my point.

Myself I had great hope for Windows Live Wave 3. Heck, the hype and beta/pre-release buzz was incredible, but even Paul Thurrott (also known as Microsoft's Chief Cultist in some circles) was pretty disappointed post-release, that is if you can read between the lines when it comes to his blog postings.

Windows Live Wave 3 was supposed to showcase the latests of what MS had to offer in the web services arena, yet if you look at the media there is very few positive post-release articles. In fact Windows Live Wave 3 seems to be off the media's radar completely, including the massive dissatisfaction among the users of Windows Live services.

Is this all Steve then? Or is this the legacy left behind which Steve had to lug around? I didn't see Ballmer as head honcho untill 2006 when Gates left.

I wonder what the next (two) year(s) will bring. If things continue like this I'm with you Joe. But this is just pointing blame for no reason.

Nontheless the facts you point out in your article do cover things that look bad on Microsoft as a whole.

Sorry for the double post but...:

4. Windows XP extensions.
Would that be a sign Windows 7? We'll keep XP alive just a little longer so people could transfer from XP to 7 without having to bother with Vista?

Lets not forget Linux. Ballmer gave its first big break in 2008 by allowing new netbooks to run Linux instead of Windows. It went from 0.5% to 2% marketshare in 1 year. What they didn't give to Linux, they gave to OSX. Thanks Steve!

Looks bad going forwards. I guess next year it will be along the lines:

1. Windows 7 received as badly as Vista, due to a last minute cave in to the MPAA where MS puts extra DRM into Windows 7 beyond Vista.
2. Windows Mobile discontinued. Misses next release market becomes dominated by iPhone, Android and Symbian, no room for a 4th player.
3. MS gives up on Silverlight due to zero adoption outside of MS owned sites. Open standards wins the web remains free.
4. Visual Studio loses more share as developers switch to other platforms like Java, Ruby and other open cross-platform development systems.
5. SQL Server loses revenue as everyone switches to supporting Express or other free alternatives. SQL is enough of a standard that enterprises can switch to the free alternatives easily.
6. Windows server sales tank as enterprises look to reduce TCO and switch to free versions of Linux like Ubuntu or CentOS.
7. MS divests the MBS business to concentrate on their other businesses (ie rebuild the Windows and Office platforms). No more ERP or CRM products.
8. Office starts to decline in revenue as people don't upgrade since their current version is good enough or switch to the on-line competition like Google Apps (especially once the figure out they can easily save things locally if they want).
9. XBox hemorrhages money like mad as they discount it to try to compete with the Wii.
10. Zune loses more and more money as the iPod continues to trounce it with innovative products like the touch.

Cheers and happy new year.

First off, Merry Christmas everyone!

As many of you know, I really dislike Microsoft, not anyone in particular, just the whole Redmond thing. I have my reasons that stem from my childhood, but that's neither hear nor there.

As much as I would like to gloat over the fact that Microsoft would one day wake up and find itself out of business and Linux being a world dominating operating system, it just won't happen in my lifetime. I also given up on the notion of world peace too.

I like coming to this site, for the most part, the articles are written at a level that I can understand, and I like talking down to anyone who has a difference of opinion. This is what I do, and my Friends here are the same way.

Thanks Joe for the opportunity.

I echo the positive comments on Joes site. When I first came here, I had no idea Id settle and I think thats in no part to the style and delivery of Joes articles. Joe, firstly to you. I believe there is real integrity in your posts, they are informative and entertaining. Sincerely thank you for giving us this forum in which to debate/argue!!
-
Next up good old Microsoft. Ive been reading the above comments and racking my brain to think, "what on earth do MS have to look forward to in 2009? What products are they (or more importantly) the customers looking forward to in 2009?"
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I personally am looking forward to Windows 7. Why? Because you know whatever it is, it will be in for a massive debate.
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Now looking at some of the above comments:
-
WM - Yep, dead platform (IMO) it will fizzle out in a foray of unhappy customers and software bugs, to be replaced with more reliable, functional and fashionable platforms.
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Win 7 - IMO Cannot possibly live up to all the promises, and IMO will require such high specs that even SKYNET would have difficulty running it at a decent speed.
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360 - Already lost the battle to Nintendo, IMO the best MS can hope for is to break even. Nintendo isnt going away and Nintendo is what people want. Sorry MS and Sony.
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Zune - Providing you can find someone who knows what it is, I think this will crawl silently back under its rock, and in a years time the only place it will be remembered will be wikipedia.
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Theres many more, but Id just love to hear anyone suggest something that MS (and its customers) have to look forward to in 2009.

I have quoted you, good entry and Merry Christmas!

This is the finest article you have written on behalf of my company Joe. I am impressed by your forsight and resolve to report the truth even though my friend Steve Ballmer may not like it.

I will give you a free laptop any day now Joe as i know you have emailed me a few times for one.

Again thanks for keeping the penguins quiet and keep up the good work. bye

regards Bill and Melinda

Joe Wilcox:

Isn't it time you got your house in order? Are you to allow identity theft to go on here? I want to know, whats fair for the goose, you know?

This post is not mine, the one previous that starts with:
"First off, Merry Christmas everyone!

As many of you know, I really dislike Microsoft, not anyone in particular,"....................

Obviously the identity thief is someone of low intelligence that cannot debate or has realized that he cannot debate against the truth, and has chosen the lowest road. At the very least you Joe, should ban his IP and email address, and expose his user names to us. This is about the 3rd or 4th major time this has happened now on your site. Thanks.

@The Hand, the latter.

How could this be "Identity Theft?" The simple handle you use, how can this tie you to your true identity?

Shall I hand you a cleanex so that you can stop snivelling?

I am sure that Steve and Bill Gates aren't crying buckets because someone used their name here on this site.

-------------------------------------------------

I like it, that on this site comments are posted immediately. I guess if there is too much abuse, Joe will have to become like Google Watch and approve each posting which I find takes around 6 hours usually. Plus, even though I've never been censored, you kinda wonder who has or what you are missing.

This guy is responsible for australias filtering fiasco. someone send him lots of spam and send terroroists after him. please.

Senator Stephen Conroy
Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy
Level 4, 4 Treasury Place
Melbourne Vic 3002

minister@dbcde.gov.au

this is a perfect example why bloggers are referred to as imbeciles.

LOL

I don't like to wish ill-will on anyone. All I want for x-mas is for people like Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates to use Windows Vista themselves on a new dual core laptop like I do, and then wait for 10 minutes every time I decide to scroll a window and the spinning donut takes over the system. Or wait for 10 minutes every hour that my wireless disconnects and then tries to reconnect. Thank goodness for my old 700mhz Windows 2000 system, I wouldn't get any work done without it!

Uncle Brian : If it's any consolation Mike Nash spent $2,100 on a laptop that barely worked.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/mnash/default.aspx

I bet he wasn't smiling like that when he realised his machine wouldn't run Movie Maker.

Hey Joe,
Watcha doin w/ dat gun in ur hand? Thank you for the well thought out article, and your correct in blaming balmy balmer for the serious list of sh_t that's been created since I left. Melinda will personally git ur laptop over to yuse asapp.
WG III

Joe, while you are on the subject of Ballmer's Twelve Gifts, here is another M$ lump of coal to keep you warm:

Former Microsoft Shill Openly Confesses, Alleges Microsoft Still Does This

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/

“It could be argued that Microsoft’s unethical Technology Evangelism (TE) practices are “old news”—i.e., that Microsoft stopped using these questionable TE practices long ago. This is very unlikely to be the case, for at least three reasons.”

–James Plamondon, former Microsoft shill (aka ‘Technology Evangelist’)
--------------------------------------------------
Maybe its time Joe, to tie username to email accounts and stop all this identity problems from trolls. Its killing your site.

Thanks chips! What with xmas I havent been keeping ontop of all my favorite sites.
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I have been an avid reader of Roys Boycott Novell site for quite some time, I find it informative and thought provoking.
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I am so pleased for Roy that he has managed to get this scoop. I hope people will link to it.
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Roy IMO has received alot of abuse when all he does is work very hard to produce a truthful and insightful site.
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Any of our regular pro-MS posters fancy making a comment?

Why try to ban me??? Im not that bad, i only side with Microsoft because they pay me, eerr i mean i like their software.

Joe please dont ban me. Please i beg you.

I personally love Windows Vista. I love the new features and the new look and feel of the new Operating System.

I have been using it for over a year now and it just gets better and better. There were a few issues at first but when Microsoft fixed them without asking us to pay for those fixs i was just so impressed.

I also like Andre as he is a very balanced reporter making the best of the blatant negative critisism that the Linux fanboys always make to people who like to report factual data.

I think i am going to absolutely love Windows 7. I think it will be the worlds best operating system when it comes out. And if you have got nothing to hide then why the opposition to the DRM stuff. I know i want to watch movies on my PC i dont know about you linux guys.

If you havent got anything to hide then Microsofts systems wont harm you at all. Only if your a criminal or a hacker will the DRM report you as a criminal. so people forget the fanboy linux fans and use Windows now as its the best experience around.

Bye.

I could not figure out what the heck those M$ commercial were about when they said "I am a PC" I assumed they were taking shrooms and actually thought they were a PC. Perhaps Steve Ballmer ought to reboot his brain -- something you rarely would ever do with Linux.

Molly :wrote

"And if you have got nothing to hide then why the opposition to the DRM stuff. DRM report you as a criminal. so people forget the fanboy linux fans and use Windows now as its the best experience around."
----------------------------------------------------

I was not aware that DRM "reports" people to the proper authorities. That is interesting to know. Where did you get your information from?

Oh its good.
This has to be a windup doesnt it?
Quote Molly "I also like Andre as he is a very balanced reporter making the best of the blatant negative critisism that the Linux fanboys always make to people who like to report factual data"
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I like Andre (this place would not be the same without him), but the words "Andre" and "balanced" dont belong in the same sentence do they? Do we need to link to Andres crackers over the last few months? LOL.
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I am not a Linux fanboy. Infact the only thing I am a fanboy to is Luton Town FC.
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Lets ask Molly the question then. Molly, do you believe that Microsoft took onboard all of the comments about XP and released Vista? Do you believe Vista is "the best of XP"?
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Molly then goes on to say "And if you have got nothing to hide then why the opposition to the DRM stuff. I know i want to watch movies on my PC i dont know about you linux guys."
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Er Molly, have you read what the real issue is with DRM? Its not the fact that it tries to prevent piracy since BT trackers can offer you any titles you want DRM free (so its irrelevant). It was the fact that people encountered problems when they had legitimately paid for titles that employed it. To a pirate DRM means nothing, and infact open source users are (IMO) less likely to be pirates than Windows ones, since all our utilities are free of charge and open to everyone.
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Quote Molly "Only if your a criminal or a hacker will the DRM report you as a criminal."
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Molly, dont be so silly and make comments without understanding the subject at hand. MS has (IMO) been monitoring computer users for years with packages such as media player, iE and the Windows OS itself. Having said that I fail to see the evidential worth in such monitoring since the UK has the ripa policy for covert observation.
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and Molly, if what you say is true, what gives MS and its platforms the authority to observe and make judgements on peoples activities when MS themselves have been alleged to have acted unlawfully themselves in the past.
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Molly, yours was a joke post, wasnt it?
and if its not a joke Molly, think on this: If pirates can produce a better version of XP (TinyXP) that runs FASTER than MS's effort AND distribute it to a possible audience of millions over BT, do you really think DRM is worthwhile?

And Molly, I made this post separately, so its harder for you to ignore.
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Where are the untruthful facts that Linux users have quoted. The only untruthful facts were made by MS posters, they have been challenged and why we dont see them return.
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Please enlighten us as to the lies you have read.
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I put it to you that YOUR comment was untruthful and you seek to promote MS and improve its poor PR by claiming (in a general way) that Linux users tell lies.
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We all know the real story dont we Molly? Do we need to link to Boycott Novell again? What about China and its "censorship unpleasantness" in 2005 involving MS? What about the "Vista ready" issue? Molly would you like me to list all the allegations against MS and its practices? Id suggest you leave the topic alone. The Linux platform has nothing to be ashamed of. Can you say the same?

Molly :wrote

" I know i want to watch movies on my PC i dont know about you linux guys."
---------------------------------------------------

LOL , I don't know where you get your information from, but Linux users have no problems watching movies on Linux computers.

But we prefer watching them on a 50" big screen HDTV...but if you like watching movies on a cramped 17" screen......what ever makes you happy...

Molly :wrote

"I personally love Windows Vista. I love the new features and the new look and feel of the new Operating System.

I have been using it for over a year now and it just gets better and better. There were a few issues at first but when Microsoft fixed them without asking us to pay for those fixs i was just so impressed."
----------------------------------------------------

Vista was and still is a dog, even MSFT can't wait to bury it. thats why there is all the hype now surrounding Windows 7.

Instead of really fixing the bloat and slowness of Vista, the computer manufacturers are now selling laptops with 4 GB of ram and desktops with as much as 6 GB of ram in attempt to "fix" the performance problems of Vista. Its like putting a band aid on a gaping wound.

Win 7 is really Microsoft's last hope, they need to get it right this time. Already Apple had tripled their share on Vista's watch, Linux has finally started to take a fair portion of the netbook market.

If Microsoft asked its users to pay for MSFT's own mistake which is Vista (and Vista IS a HUGE mistake IMO),,they would be laughed out of the IT world. (Right now the IT world is snickering behind their back and in the process ...they looking at alternatives to Windows altogether.)

As it is there is a recession/depression going on and companies are cutting back big time and looking to save money. Open source software like Open Office and Linux can and will provide free alternatives to high priced, proprietary software.

Nice job Vista!

"Former Microsoft Shill Openly Confesses"

Excellent link chips! Now we could spread it.
-----

@Molly, here are a few points in response to your post.

Vista is getting better and better. Heck it couldn't get any worst could it? I stared using it a year ago with a Toshiba laptop that had a Gig of RAM. It was unbelievably slow compared to my current 3 Gig Dell with dedicated ATI graphics card. So I'm inclined to believe that although updates have made Vista somewhat better it is the hardware update that has made the Vista experience more enjoyable. From my perspective Microsoft had me pay for a lousy product then upgraded it (not free of charge because I did pay for it and it is their duty to support the product). Then I had to scoop up more money to get a better piece of hardware that ran the same software. BTW I had to pay for the license again even if I can only use one laptop at a time. Oh BTW the restore from hibernation message in Spanish is still misspelled.

Regarding the DRM issue. Well this is a touchy subject. Lets start from the end and work our way back. Yes you can watch movies on Linux. You just need to install the proper codecs which are not usually installed with the distro for obvious reasons. The process is simple and can be handled with the distro's installer application. Probably faster than looking for and downloading DivX.

So there you have it. Cracking the whole DVD issue and region thing is a piece of cake. It can be done by "kids living in their parent's basement". So how does this leave DRM on Windows standing. In my point of view as an over hardened shell around the kernel that can be easily cracked and only hampers the legit user.

But don't take me wrong. I'm not against DRM, just against useless and bloggy DRM that makes my computer slow. I'm also pro DRM in an open standards way and I have said before that I support DRM on Linux as it would be a great benefit for its enterprise adoption.

DRM goes beyond music and movies. It involves documents, pdfs, autocad drawings, etc etc etc. But when the DRM implementation permeates an OS to a point that simple audio stutters then I get upset. When your whole music repository is in the hands of a service provider that then releases a hardware product (Zune) and makes them incompatible between each other. Then I get upset. When the DRM key servers for said (already paid for) music are terminated and I have to commit to a single playback device then I really really get upset. For more information on this matter google "microsoft play for sure"

So there is noting intrinsically wrong with DRM. It is the sloppy and centrally controlled ways its been done on Windows that has me upset. Unfortunately for Microsoft this feeling is shared with others.

Whilst its great the practices of MS are being exposed and the impotence of its alleged flagship product Vista, there is still a victim here. Regardless of what Win 7 is or isnt, regardless of Vista being deployed on a bandaged PC, the victim is the average user who does not visit sites like this nor has an interest in the IT world. These people will be lumbered with Win 7 if they like it or not, they wont be aware of anything else.
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I would like to bet many people bought Vista genuinely looking forward to the experience and completely oblivious to what was being said about it. I would also bet that when it didnt function as expected, these users blamed themselves for not being IT aware and still believe that MS is the only choice available to them.
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I think enlightening people to open source and/or alternatives is an uphill struggle. For those already using alternatives know the benefits and those that dont have spent years with MS products believing that they are to blame when the products go wrong. One of our previous MS posters highlighted this a week or so ago when he was trying to claim that people fell victim of the latest IE exploit because of lazyness, not a fault of the package itself.
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I certainly hope 2009 will see more open source/alternatives users giving their experiences to people who havent had the exposure to anything other than an MS world. Word of mouth is a powerful thing.

I have tried Windows 7 for a few hours, and I don't think they have really thought through all of the new features.

For example the split window feature only seems to work with 1 monitor, if you have 2 monitors then it will only fill up the left of the left monitor or the right of the right monitor. Its very confusing and useless. I am not sure how this feature could ever work since there is no resistance on the centre line.

I am not a fan of the new taskbar, they are just trying to directly copy OSX but fail because Windows apps do not have a consistant interface for getting a new window, so you are left floundering to find out how that particular app creates a new window. Internet explorer is Click Page on the right in the main window, then 'New Window'. In Paint it is 'Click the little dropdown arrow in the window title', then click 'New'. I am sure the rest are all different.

Also there seem to be some major bugs to do with touch gestures (my best guess). Dragging around windows sometimes has strange effects on other windows. Grabbing a window and shaking it left and right minimizes all the other windows, and I have also seen a wierd action that closes the window you are moving. Not very user friendly.

Open IE by clicking its icon in the taskbar, start downloading Firefox, then close the main window. Now how do you open another window? The answer is open the start menu, type explorer and click the icon. Or you could right click the existing icon and select Internet explorer (not new window or something easy to understand).

Raising any window where you have more than 2 instances now requires 2 clicks instead of 1.

I can't really understand why all the Windows reviewers have not picked up on these really basic usability issues. Is Vista so bad day-to-day that this is considered better? Isn't a beta release an ideal time for them to help MS make this a really polished release? Instead they have turned into a bunch of dribbling yes-men.

I am not even going to start on the visual consistancy. It's better than Vista and XP, but thats not saying anything is it?

Lucky # 13...Microsoft's powerful customer reach and satisfaction through partner's like Denali Advanced Intergation of Redmond, WA. With hundred's of technical experts in SharePoint, MOSS, Exchange, Denali is one of Microsoft's and HP's Frontline and Gold and OEM partner's fastest growing VAR's

See exclusive HP partnership offering Source IT - an exclusive HP/Denali outsourcing for Mid Markets ( SMB ) customer's and prospects. see denalisource.com and denaliai.com for details.

Microsoft , like HP , have recognized the power of the channel to reach net new opportunities and give the customer a great experience.

Quote John "Microsoft , like HP , have recognized the power of the channel to reach net new opportunities and give the customer a great experience."
-
Does that include Vista?
What about Windows Mobile?
What about IE exploits?
-
Are these the great experiences you are referring to?

Guys come on, quit picking on Molly as if you all are a bunch of he-man woman-haters. Goblin, your attacks are over-the-top. This is not the way to pick up chicks on the Internet by showing you lack of understanding and your zeal of hating the opposite sex. Might I add a measure of restraint to opinions that opose your narrow-minded thought?

--------------------------------------------------
@chips

good link to the article, isn't it a terrible that someone like Joe doesn't write like this guy exposing the evil deeds of Microsoft. Well, I doubt in Joe's defense that the average person would care less about the inner-workings of Microsoft.

Still, a good link...

--------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, for those who thought about going to Linux before Microsoft began releasing SP1 and SP2 to bring Vista up to speed, it seems the biggest turn-offs where caused by those Idiots out there, you know, the Linux Zealots.

Perhaps these zealots need to shut the f*&k up and let a more freindlier and pro-active tone help those interested on bailing out of the Microsoft scene.

People that come here to this site are finding out what Microsoft is up to, and Joe is doing a wonderful job on that and with his own comments and thoughts added into the work. People are not coming here to find out alternatives in operating systems, so why the damned hubub on Linux and bashing other folks with a difference of opinion. I know it's all too easy to sit behind your keyboard and blast a person that is a million miles away, and it's easy to flame a person that isn't keen on technology -- Be of a service instead of a problem.

That is not the user "The Hand" this is another Shill imposter and another reason why we should have to register to comment on this site.
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If readers havent already, they can check up on the alleged shilling tactics by Microsoft on:
-
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/
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Further proof about the underhanded techniques some people will stoop to. These people are more than willing to sell their integrity for a buck.
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The real "The Hand" will post here shortly im sure.

Oh and Mr Imposter (Fake The Hand) Im married, so I have no interest in "picking up chicks"
-
What I would suggest to you young man, is that you dont refer to females as "chicks" mostly it is found as a derogatory word. If you would like any further advice on how to speak properly and respectfully with women, let me know.

Goblin;

You've proved so many comments about mindless people calling other people shills, you've worn the word out looking at so many posts of your drivel and diatribes. It seems to me that your version of shills is anyone with a difference of opinion you unsecure little boy - Shame.

I don't see anything in "The Hand's" comments that gives one any reason to conclude this person is a shill, that is, other than this person is getting on you for being a cyber bully in regards to Molly.

Really, go suck on a razor blade and get over it.

Really, this site is starting to warm up...

Say Goblin, is your wife, has HE been good to you??

Really, all along I had you pegged as a flaming fagg*t

LOL.
Keep it up.
I didnt think it possible for shillers to create even more bad light for themselves or the company they represent.
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My sexual orientation is of no relevance on a site about MS and its "products" and I will not stoop to your level by commenting further. I respect someone without their sexual orientation being an issue. Can you say the same?
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Your post implies a prejudice, tell me is this the official line of MS?

Quote Mary Jo "It seems to me that your version of shills is anyone with a difference of opinion you unsecure little boy"
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Then I suggest you read the discourse between myself and Jess. I suggest you read the comments where GENUINE people have posted and my discussion with them.
You must think people stupid, it is so easy to tell the difference between a PR paste and a genuine user.
I also think you'll find the word is "insecure". Unsecure is a word best used to describe MS products (IMO)
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Quote "don't see anything in "The Hand's" comments that gives one any reason to conclude this person is a shill, that is, other than this person is getting on you for being a cyber bully in regards to Molly."
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Er, except for the fact its not the real user "the hand" posting it. If as you imply, you've been reading back then you will see that a/this isnt his typing style and b/not his opinion.
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Can I ask are you and Gary a double act or a coincidence? Ive been looking for a first article after Xmas on my site. You two have come in nicely and a lovely link.

and where have I "cyber bullied" Molly?
I have spoken to Molly in exactly the same way as every other person. If anyone chooses to make a silly remark it should be challenged. If you think I have, challenge it.
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You know people can read back on this thread themselves. I stand by what I said. I dont know how you think you can libel me and expect me not to respond or people to check back themselves.

Ugh... Well, I hope you at least got a few good laughs out of this thread for your trouble, Goblin. I went back an re-read your stuff after seeing the ensuing flood of hate posts. Let's see here...

I noticed that Molly never once replied back with anything to substantiate her claims.

I also saw where, rather than bringing up relevant facts or arguments, some people responded by bringing both your attitudes toward women and your sexual preferences into the discussion, when both are irrelevant here. (Not once did you bring Molly's gender into your rebuttal)

Wow. Just wow. No need for personal attacks, especially in cases where that is the only material in the post. It would be far better not to post at all, as posts like that only highlight one's inability to counter the original poster's points.

As far as the claims of "shilling" go, Microsoft's use of shilling as an official company policy appears to be well documented, at least going by this article and the links therein:

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/

MS "shills" do exist, and I dare say we have seen them on this site, but genuine MS fans also exist, and we have seen them here as well. And there are clear differences between the ways that a shill and fan conduct themselves that tend to make clear very quickly which is which.

This post was interesting. The way they attacked various facets of my character. All of which was untrue. I have on this very site challenged what I believed was sexism. Infact I would challenge any inappropriate or derogatory remark, and now the shiller seems to be moving into the realms of homophobia as well.
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What was interesting for me was the fact that they failed to mention any of the other commenters who disagreed with Molly and simply came after me. The fact if someone is male or female is irrelevant, I work with both and value the opinion & respect both.
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Unfortunately for our "un-dynamic duo" they had neither the reasoning skills nor the "savvy" to be able to belittle me.
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Lets all wait for the next attack. I wonder what the new angle will be. I also hope that nobody was offended by their insensitive and vulgar posts.

Well, at least you know "they" (used in the most generic sense) take you seriously and consider you a threat (at least as far as someone can be considered a "threat" on an internet forum). That's a kind of respect, in a way.

Goblin :

That is not the user "The Hand" this is another Shill imposter and another reason why we should have to register to comment on this site...........

Yep, the troll stole my identity again. seems Joe Wilcox is busy being sick with the flu and christmas, to do something to maintain his blog. As you know, I would not say those type of things. The Troll should be banned or email should be linked to the username so that only the real poster could post with that name. But that would require real work from eweek, wouldn't it?

My guess is that Joe is not too concerned about the pro-linux posters, as they do nothing to help ziff-davis advertisers, including M$. You know, Joe's bread and butter. Personally, I do not care which side of the OS war that the troll is on, he or she, should be banned. This is far from the first time.

Hi!
Glad to see you back, and also glad that it can be shown. Roy from Boycott Novell is also currently being "cloned" and it shows that for our shillers there really is no level too low.
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If Joe decides not to make it a registration site, I may start putting at the bottom of every post. "Do not buy MSoffice, download OpenOffice for free" and then put the link.
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No shiller will put that on a post and it would be a way to determine that mine is genuine.
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Just an idea.

The Hand :wrote

"Guys come on, quit picking on Molly as if you all are a bunch of he-man woman-haters"
----------------------------------------------------

Let me see if I get this straight...so someone can get on here an state that WE are LUCKY that Microsoft paid for the fixes and that Linux users can't watch movies on our Linux computers because (Windows is so superior and Linux is inferior)...and....Because some of us attempt to set the record straight....we are now "he-man woman haters".

Thats almost pathetic as being labeled a "cult" by some nameless commenter over at Tech Blorge because some of us mention Linux.

Why is MSFT seemingly so desperate to have its suspected astroturfers slam Linux with its "by the book" FUD...especially for a operating system that their own fanboys endlessly tout with having a only .86 % market share.

So what IS Microsoft so concerned of anyway that they need to afraid of a OS that "forever" (according to them) will have a minuscule market share?

Some of are still waiting for Microsoft to release a innovative and great performing OS. Lord knows seven years is a Long Time. I hope Windows 7 is that innovative OS.

But the facts remain, some of us here got tired of waiting and looked elsewhere in the meantime. Apparently we were not the only ones waiting.

Joe, if you are reading this...maybe its time to close the thread....

Guys;

I have to laugh at you, each and every one of you. Yes, you Goblin, the Hand (especially the idiot who claims he's the real one), his buddy, Ralph.

You pro linux guys are a gas. You can't even give Linux away for free for several decades. Really, Linux is no threat to Microsoft and never will be, and if and when it does, well read the post that your dear chumps or chimps posted and we'll own them too.

Oh god, you guys are stooges. Keep ranting and shouting, drive people to Microsoft, and maybe I'll send you all a netbook.

I shouldnt really justify your sillyness, but I think Ill indulge.
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Quote "You can't even give Linux away for free for several decades"
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Im not trying to give anything away. If people want to try Linux or an alternative (Mac) fine. If they dont, thats fine as well. Theres nothing in it for me.
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Quote "Linux is no threat to Microsoft and never will be, and if and when it does, well read the post that your dear chumps or chimps posted and we'll own them too."
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So why do people bother to post lies and libel against Linux users? Also you appear to have confused yourself, you say Linux will never be a threat to MS then you go on to say "if and when". So do you think Linux will be a threat or not?
Ive said before, I wouldnt want Linux to have the market penetration that Windows has, lest it becomes the binary slug that is Windows which has pandered to the whims of all its users, but instead of doing it with optmisation in mind has tackled the issue with a "bolt on, patch up code" policy, and a denial of issues when they arise. (IMO)
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Quote "well read the post that your dear chumps or chimps posted and we'll own them too"
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Come on, regardless of what people use or support, this is an adult forum. If you want to post like this surely there are other sites you can go to. We are adults here.
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Quote "Oh god, you guys are stooges. Keep ranting and shouting, drive people to Microsoft, and maybe I'll send you all a netbook."
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Thank you, I will. Although I tend to disagree that we are sending people anywhere in particular. I would hope people use the software that is best for them, regardless of what it is. Someone appears to be worried though, check back on this thread and we can see tactics used to belittle and fudge the issues at hand.
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It would be nice if you could send me that Netbook. Could you just make sure its pre-installed with Linux, Ive read the reviews on the Vista ones.

Really the chips' post has touch a nerve.
Let see:
"This is worth keeping in mind — especially amongst victims of Microsoft’s ill practices — in case a lawsuit is filed against the company in the future. People should not just avoid the company for behaving in this way; entire countries should sue Microsoft or impose an embargo already.

This is not competition. It’s unhealthy market distortion, it’s corruption. Real people are hurt and Microsoft’s competitors who cater for their families lose their jobs so that Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates can hoard billions and funnel these into governments so that they will blindly procure Microsoft. It’s the kickbacks routine, which perverted procurement is a part of. It has mischief and manipulation written all over it and there are heaps of hard evidence.

These things are large and complex, but thanks to input from readers and fellow bloggers we are beginning to obtain and put together a comprehensive alta vista that explains how Microsoft operates internally (if not intimately). Those who are desperate to dispute it must stop attacking the messenger; this only legitimises the message, which cannot be countered directly"
------

Very true Marco.
Although as I say, the shill posters merely further prove the articles being written on other sites about MS's practices.
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In my ideal world Id like to see an equal distribution of linux/windows/macOS/others. Cross platform development is no longer the issue it used to be and just like we all use the same petrol but have different cars, Id like to see that emulated in the computer world as well. Users having the platforms they feel most comfortable with whilst running the software they require. Users discovering the benefits of free software and contributing to a community to make it better.
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Variety makes for creativity, and Im sure if we were all locked in to the same platform (whatever that may be) our computing experience would be all the more limited.

steveballmer, Gary Hobbs,Mary Jo, Molly , muglytheworm, Jacob Marley;

New names = Old acquaintances
Purpose; bury, with a mountain of trash, the dialogue
Why?:

"For eight years (1992-2000), I was the driving force behind Microsoft’s effort to make its Technology Evangelism (TE) efforts more efficient, effective, and ruthless, by studying both the practice and the theory of TE. After leaving Microsoft in 2000, I spurned the inquiries of numerous Microsoft competitors to testify on their behalf. As recently as year, I fell on my sword on Microsoft’s behalf.

So why come forward now?

Two reasons.

First, the global financial melt-down forced an epiphany. We at Microsoft always felt that we were on the side of free markets and unfettered capitalism—you know, the Good Guys. But so did the guys at Lehman Brothers, AIG, Fannie Mae, and all of the other failed financial institutions. Even Alan Greenspan, the High Priest of free markets, has had to concede that there’s “a flaw” in free market economics—a flaw that led directly to the current financial collapse.

My belief that I was one of the Good Guys was similarly flawed. This is now inescapable. I was wrong. Many of the TE practices that I developed, taught, and espoused were wrong. Anyone who continues to practice them is wrong. As a first step towards making amends for my past wrongdoing, I must make this clear, and widely known.

Second, Microsoft—where these practices were developed, welcomed, and endorsed as official policy—is this week launching its first public volley in the Mother of All Standards Battles, to control the de facto standards of cloud computing. For Microsoft, this is a life-or-death struggle. When Microsoft’s back is to the wall, can it reasonably be expected to refrain from using the TE tactics that it KNOWS will help it win, if its use of those tactics is unrestrained?

However, my concern is not just for Microsoft. These TE practices are very effective, and now that some of them have been documented in the public record, other platform vendors will be tempted to use them, too, when their backs are against the wall.

This problem can only be treated, I believe, by professionalizing TE, and thereby inoculating platform vendors against unethical TE practices.

That’s why I felt compelled to come forward now. Only now have I realized how wrong I was, and by coming forward now, in the opening skirmishes of the Cloud Computing Wars, I can begin to make amends for my past wrong-doing.

-----
Look yourself in a "mirror" sometimes hurts

I forget the link:
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/

He.

This is getting deep...but check this (soon to be classic) out. Already the anti-Linux hysteria is reaching a fever pitch at IT World.

Are you sitting down? Now the hype is Windows 7 is a Linux killer. So (while I am trying not to spit out my coffee), Windows 7 is going to take Linux' market away...all .86% (according to the shills).

Well maybe that very well could be the case....IF Windows 7 was free and doesn't contain DRM in its operating system.

http://www.itworld.com/windows/59657/windows-7-linux-killer

So again if Linux is so unimportant and with so little users...why then does a major IT site have to tell us that Windows 7 is a Linux killer...when in fact Windows 7 has not been released and won't be for another year...at best?

I guess IBM, Google, Red Hat and Canonical better close up shop.... lmao

Ralph,
Interesting post, thanks for the link.
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IMO this type of talk is nothing new.
Fair enough when Vista was released, Linux/alternatives were not in the position they are today but we saw many claims about how great Vista was going to be pre-release. Now years on, whats Vista? IMO a binary pig with so little popularity that Microsoft wont even name it on their advertising campaign (oh and an internet full of unhappy customers) (source: Google search)
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Ive read all sorts of Windows 7 claims, both official and not so. 15 second boot times. Well thats already been achieved with Linux (I believe theres a Fedora variant that can boot in 8) All manner of bells and whistles (including touch screen) - wow, that technology has been around for years and Im dubious about its usefulness in the average office/home environment.
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I also fail to see how they are managing to completely overhaul the code, optimize it and add all the advertised bells and whistles, without hitting into even more backward comp issues than Vista has. Comparing Vista at work to Linux at home, Ive found Linux/Wine more reliable at running old Windows software than Windows.
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MS will obviously manage to shift quite a few copies, since most vendors will only be offering it pre-installed on their machines, however are we saying business will simply forget about the fiasco of Vista and jump blindly from XP (or whatever) to Win 7. Would they really take the risk? (even forgetting that we are in the middle of an economic crisis)
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MS (IMO) underestimates the home user aswell. Since entertainment (games) was one of the selling points for a PC (or atleast an upgrade) MS has forgotten that the PC is seen less and less as a gaming platform due to the standalone consoles. The rest of the home users (IMO) are mainly made up of people with the simple requirements like surfing and wordprocessing, all of which Linux takes in its stride (and IMO better & faster than Windows)
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and lets not forget, whatever Windows 7 turns out to be, you'll have to dip into your pocket to try it out. I wonder if Vista users will get a free upgrade?

Hi Ralph and Goblin, interesting link Ralph, we could wait even more MS reactions.

I wonder when the "penny will drop" and those firms who pay people to fudge and deceive will realize that to get good PR all you need to do is release decent products and act in an honorable way.
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I sometimes think that some of these "shill" posters are actually Linux fans posting with the best of intentions in order to get people to promote Linux.
I really hope this is not the case. I would like to think people make software decisions based on honest posting not on the underhanded tactics others employ. I believe open source has the moral high ground and I believe its one of the things that makes the community so great. You dont find open source users fudging your facts, you dont find open source software seeking to lock you in or take money from you. This is why I believe open source is such a threat to MS. It doesnt matter how much money MS has, you cant bully something which seeks to be free and open to all.
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I believe 2009 will see Microsoft swing some of its legal threats into play. I believe others, like Novell will fall into line. I also believe Microsoft is in for some stormy waters what with the economy, feeling about them and the various monopolies legislation that has been brought against them in the past. I would also like to put a question forward:
If MS is able is invoke DRM inspired code on your system in order to monitor/report on activities, how does this hold with the RIPA policy? To my mind, any company obtaining information from my machine about me, is covertly observing me and requires the same permissions as any other body that seeks to do the same.
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Finally, to other readers here, you've seen the posts and activities that have gone on, depending on your take on them will determine your opinion on Azure where even more computing freedom/independence is taken away from you (IMO)
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As always, my opinion. Id love to hear yours.

@Ralph:
"Now the hype is Windows 7 is a Linux killer. So (while I am trying not to spit out my coffee), Windows 7 is going to take Linux' market away...all .86% (according to the shills).

Well maybe that very well could be the case....IF Windows 7 was free and doesn't contain DRM in its operating system."
----------------------------------------------------
Ralph, your comments are always interesting.

I got news for the M$ shills, they never going to get back that .86%, and I further doubt that they going get the near 9% of Mac users back either.

Not going post links here this time, but it seems that Net Apps the site that comes up with the OS web usage figures, did an interview. And in this interview, they stated that alternative OS did better on short months, and months with more holidays, because there was more home users online compared to business users. Which makes me think that Net Apps is skewed towards MS sites for businesses, and that is why its likely to show the low linux usage. But the only thing I value off the Net Apps data, is the rate of increase.

Ralph, its more than just " free and doesn't contain DRM," that has to be to make Windows Seven a decent operating system. Micro$oft has lost its way, when malware is still a major major problems for the average windows user. I see no reason to believe that Windows Seven will fix this. This is the core reason that users are switching in droves to Linux and Mac, and they are entirely correct to do so.

Then there is the stability problem of both XP and Vi$ta, no doubt to be in Seven as well. When Bill added WGA and the Hardware layer abstraction deal that when you changed so many components, or the bios, that XP would quite working, or need reactivation. This has crashed so many XP machines, and is another reason to switch. Backing up XP and Vista from one machine to the next computer (different one) is something that the average user cannot do, because of the HAL WGA. So when you boot up, and XP or Vista has just crashed, most user do not know how to fix those issues, and this too is causing an exodus from Windows.

The M$ shills are so worried about Linux taking market share away from them, they should be. Its only just beginning to start to snowball. Mac will peak out soon, unless Apple reduces its price to compete, most likely.

Mary Jo Foley has said the most likely release date for Windows Seven will be June/July 2009. As some of you know, I predicted June a long time ago. And while I still think June is the most likely time, it could be April or May as well. Its in MS best interest to get Vi$ta off the Mac ads on TV, the only way it can, rename Vista to Seven. Windows Seven Beta 1 (the only beta) is already out and leaked, there will most likely only be one RC, as this is an minor release. Furthermore, Internet Exploder 8 release date is for Feb/March. Expect Windows Seven to be released anytime after April 3rd 2009, most likely date is still June 3rd.

Windows Seven will mostly fix some of the bugs in Vista, and a lot of UI changes. Performance improvements are in the UI, and not the kernel. Performance improvements over Vi$ta, are mostly just M$ PR (Bull not Bill). Micro$oft is as usual relying on hardware to be faster and have more ram, so Seven will seem faster. This approach could very well backfire on MS, as netbooks in a time of a major recession need to be cheap. Only the most powerful netbooks will be able to run Seven or Vista, they cede the rest to Linux, or must continue XP past the end of May, which Microsoft is now allowing XP to live again for the 3rd extension. That 3rd extension of XP should tell the softies something, Vista and Seven are failures.

@Marco:
Glad to see you back, at least hopefully that is you, with all the impersonations going on.
The Novel link has a wealth of "rich" information, thats needs mining to be processed here. BTW, I have nothing against Novell or OpenSuse, I just prefer other distro's. Mono/moonlight however, will never be a part of my linux OS.

@Chips,
What an interesting post.
I am pleased to see Im not the only one who doesnt want Mono/Moonlight anywhere near their system.
The Novell issue is a dodgy one for me. Our local computer club ran 20 copies of Opensuse for quite some time, it was functional (rather slow compared to others) but was reliable as well. Switching to an alternative distro proved just as functional and I think for many (well myself anyway) the Novell/MS deal left a bad taste in my mouth and "tainted" the product which made a switch important (afterall we had moved away from MS products due to lockin and dependence, why would we use another that partnered with them)
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Im sure there are many OpenSUSE users who are very happy. That being said, I dont think theres much use for Moonlight and certainly less as time goes on. Silverlight is not the great must have product MS imagined it would be (IMO) and after we read reports about major sites dropping it, I dont think its cause for much concern.
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I would predict in a few years time Silverlight will be in the same place as Zune and many of the other MS schemes we've seen, remembered only on the pages of Wikipedia. Hell, even the BBC doesnt want to know it, and is working with Canonical to distribute its programming to Linux users.

@Goblin,
Quote: "IMO a binary pig with so little popularity that Microsoft wont even name it on their advertising campaign"
A pig? You sir, have no manners at all, calling our belowed Sickdows Vista a 'pig'. It's a hog, a hog, not a pig, you foul mouth Lunix hippie.

"Molly" isn't a shill...she's a person with rapier wit and biting sarcasm - so obtuse, in fact, that none of you picked up on it. She's sitting there, reading all your knee-jerk responses, laughing her ass off at you, and exclaiming, "Dance, monkey, dance!"

And you did. Priceless.

Yes of course that was the case Mac God.
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Isnt it funny that when a shill poster tries to back up another shills post, they always try to use an obvious non MS handle. In this case Mac God, but theres been Gentoo User, MANdriva and all manner of others, it seems that an MS troll/shill doesnt want to associate with the MS name either.
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Even if what you said was true "mac god" if Mollys the only one laughing, and the post itself created a whole plethora of posts highlighting MS's shortcomings, whos the real "winner" here? and whos really laughing?
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So there you have it MS shareholders. People who are supporting MS and posting here dont seem to be taking the issue seriously. Infact they seem to want to have a laugh. We also have MS supporters displaying (IMO) signs of homophobia and also engaging in libelous comments and insults, not to mention trying to impersonate other users. I thought this was an adult forum? How many other levels can they stoop to? I hope you consider this when next examining your portfolio.
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Quote ""Molly" isn't a shill...she's a person with rapier wit and biting sarcasm - so obtuse, in fact, that none of you picked up on it."
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Im glad Molly has such a flippant and disrespectful attitude (and im not sure how you would know unless I was correct and there is a "un-dynamic duo" knocking about here)
Is this really the only way you can defend MS products, are you telling us this is your only argument? Others here are trying to debate properly, it appears others are making a mockery of the comment system that Joe provides.

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that outspoken Microsoft supporters are finding themselves in zugzwang situations quite frequently these days?

Hi Chips,
I visit Joe's Blog constantly, but this time I am posting a bit.
-------------

Gobbellin'

Just get over it you fricken' crybaby.

Lol
and not content with showing themselves up before, here they return impersonating "the hand" again.
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Are you people shillers, trolls or just children? Why do you make a mockery of this site and freedom of choice with your silly posts?
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For the record, I was not crying about anything. I challenged a remark that I considered to be homophobic. I challenged a poster who sought to mislead by impersonating another.
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People who want to read more about the practices and the alleged company behind them can go to:
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/
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You will not distort the message. Your practices are being exposed. You are on borrowed time.
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In one sense I hope you are a shiller, paid to post and distort the truth. If you are not then your insults and dishonesty simply highlight what an odious individual you are IMO.

@Goblin:
Yep again I was hijacked by the troll/shill. As you know I respect your posts and never use that type of language. However, since Joe Wilcox seems to either not want to do anything about this problem or ziff-davis refuses to, it becomes a game as to what the motives and identity of the troll/shill are, doesn't it?

Now it could be Joe Wilcox himself, trying to drum up some flames to increase the readership here, or to get rid of the pro-open source people, as his bread is buttered by advertising bucks, from you know who. Not to mention those free zunes, software, and those laptops he never gets, LOL. Not as outrageous and idea that Joe is the one as you might think.

But then there are others, like the VCSY bunch, although I tend to think them not the ones. My prime suspect, is someone who can write as many different personalities, but is a bit unhinged. Someone with a motive, and if you scratch the surface a very troll-like personality. Perhaps the Andrew De La La Coaster best fits this profile, and I notice he has not posted much around here later, most likely he has used up all his posts available here as other posters. Its in Andrews interest that if he cannot argue the M$ points, that he trys to destroy the pro-open source threads and points by destroying entirely the comments.

The odd thing is, both Joe Wilcox and Andrew De La La Coaster, seem to have the same exact style of writing. They even seem to use the same catch phases and words like "rich" very often in their writing. As odd as it seems, Joe and Andrew, could be one and the same. Sure would make sense when you consider how long this impersonation problem has been allowed to go on by Joe Wilcox, who does nothing about it.

So Joe, if its fair for the softies to engage in this type of behavior, is it not fair for the other side too?

@Goblin:
Yep again I was hijacked by the troll/shill. As you know I respect your posts and never use that type of language. However, since Joe Wilcox seems to either not want to do anything about this problem or ziff-davis refuses to.

Just food for thought

www.itcareerplanet.com/news/article.php/3774811

“Most of the positions that we work on are going to [pay] at least high five-figure and up to the $150k base type area,”

"using the Linux kernel engineer as an example, for a lot of the positions the low end of the range might be $100k"

"Over the last 6 to 12 months, he has gotten calls from plenty of companies just getting on board with Linux. For example, smaller firms in the Midwest who have been testing Linux as a platform and have now fully switched over."

"Companies see the value of hiring open source experts because shrink-wrapped software is becoming a thing of the past. To gain competitive advantage, they want to tweak and twist their software to wring the highest performance from it."

So you can huff and puff all you want about Windows vs Linux. The job openings and running wages speak for themselves.

Interesting article.
I may link to that myself.
I wonder if Gary Hobbs would like to make a comment. If people check back on the other thread you will see that he appears to be confusing himself and whilst posting under the name Gary Hobbs is, at the same time refering to himself as another person.
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Joe, how about some registration here?
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See for yourself:
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/corporate/when_mini_speaks_layoffs_i_believe.html
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Posted today.

Chips;

Great links and I must say that I don't usually come here to this blog often, last time I was here it was around when Mary Jo ran this back in 1997-98.

I did not know that Microsoft does this sort of thing, and why would I?

I have been using Microsoft when MS was in New Mexico and MS Dos was just released. I've been using Microsoft since I left Unix in the mid 90's.

I personally have been frustrated with MS now and then, who hasn't but never got into the politics of these things.

If Adobe ported their CS4 creativity programs over to Linux, then I might take a serious look at Linux. I am not an MS Shill like some may accuse me of being, I do like the MS windows product in most part and my mortage payments are predicated on 3D art rendering, video, and flash projects.

I am also a hardcore Dreamweaver user, okay, some might take me for a Adobe Shill. I use a Mac too, and CS4 in Mac or Windows are the same, identicle and I wish that it was for Linux, until then, Linux is only a toy for me.

Listen folks;

If you're tired of people ranting on how good Microsoft Software, Windows, Redmond, Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, or the countless of other pro-windows and pro-Microsoft shills are doing things. Come to my new site.

Really want to know what IS really going on through the Linux, Unix, and Mac lenses at Microsoft, now is your chance.

Find out on how many so called Linux architects, code writers and so called anti-Microsoft companys are really working for Redmond anyway. Find out exactly the means and tactics that Microsoft has gone, will go, and continue to over-take US based Linux companys.

We're blowing the cover off of the Microsoft covert operations into the open source world. See how Microsoft is planning an MS proprietary scheme around open source that is and will continue to happen by nefarious means.

At winblows.org, you'll find out how far Microsoft will take you down the rabbit hole. You will also find new and exciting articles written by former Microsoft Thugs and paid Shills and other less than honorable Redmond employees.

New members will be able to download the latest ISO's of the widest BSD, and Linux distros on the planet. All coming very soon!

Mac God :wrote

"Molly" isn't a shill..."

---------------------------------------------------

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Then I guess Molly doesn't know a whole lot about computers or operating systems? Too bad she doesn't know about computers that can run faster, won't blue screen and are virus and malware resistant.

Winblows : wrote

"We're blowing the cover off of the Microsoft covert operations into the open source world. See how Microsoft is planning an MS proprietary scheme around open source that is and will continue to happen by nefarious means."
---------------------------------------------------

The best thing MSFT could ever do is to base their next OS on Linux. Apple based OSX from BSD and it is wildly sucessfull.

But of course being innovative seems to be a foreign concept to the the fine folks in Redmond.

@Ralph
I believe the Molly "character" was used as an attempt to try and get one of us to make a sexist remark, or at least a mark that could be interpretted as being so. It to me was obvious with the first few lines when she made the outlandish claim of "andre" and "balanced". This IMO was designed to provoke a response, and hopefully one that could be used to discredit the posters which are seen as dangerous to the postes who seek to peddle their proprietary wares at the expense of everything else.
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Its a shame that some shill posters dont realize that both women and men have an equal place in computing and both add richness to the community. I have never seen any sexism in any of the open source forums I frequent, and Im sure if there ever was it would be challenged immediately (and rightfully so)
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Why cant Jess make a return to this site? I did enjoy speaking with her, and held value in what she said. She made no secret of where she worked and what she did. Come on Jess! come back! She was the best advert for Microsoft that Ive seen, and whilst there were many points that I disagreed with her on, I respected her opinion. She was an asset to the other side of the debate, not like some of the odious individuals that are here at the moment.
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You know, there are many here who say, "why do call these people shillers, you dont know do you?" and I would answer, because the alternative would be that they are posting these bigotted and deceptive posts with an honest held belief, and thats far more worrying than anyone who is simply paid to promote a product.
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There are plenty of people who have posted here who like MS products. I have not challenged them and I go back to my line of "right tools for right job" but a shill post is a very different thing, and I believe the majority of people here can tell the difference between an honest held belief and a piece of PR. We are all adults afterall, and I sometimes think these proprietary pushers forget that.

I had to write this from another computer at another location, as all my comments are being held by the webmaster, LOL. It seems that Joe had a 50-50 chance of blocking the right ip address, and guess what, he sure got it wrong. Or did he want to get rid of the real Hand (me) as I am pro-linux. Not exactly putting anything into the MS cookie jar, am I Joe? I bet the shill/troll can still post.

Fine Joe, have it your way, if you want to be a pawn of Microsoft, I hope you are happy with this censorship. I really believe that you and the Coaster, are one and the same Joe.

Good luck to the rest of you, Goblin, Marco, who continue to waste time on this worthless site.

@The Hand
I would hope that its just a temporary problem with the site. I wonder if this message is going to be published?
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That being said, I believe Joe will have no issue with whoever posts here, time will tell. If comments which highlight alternatives to MS are IP blocked (which I would doubt) its really a futile exercise as ill just use a proxy.

Talking of the "Coaster" he hasnt been here in name form for a few days. Maybe he's "teching it easy" from all the issues with Vista people keep posting on his blog. Thats if he can find them with the impotence of MS's spam blocking software on their sites.
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Nike trainers anyone? (they are advertised well on Andres blog)
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On a related note I made a rather un-complimentary MS post on my site which Akismet is reporting a massive amount of spam being directed to (and just that post, none of the others) unfortunately for the instigator (and I do believe it intentional) Akismet has done what it appears MSblogs cannot and that is block everything spam related without any effort from me. Infact the only reason I know is because Akismet records the stats.

@Goblin;

My God, your crying buckets here on this thread too?

I caught your latest rant on a previous post on another thread complaining about Hobbs and Gobbs. Who knows, maybe you and the other two are the same posters or something. Listen, just quit feeding the trolls, crybaby.

Maybe you want to try that comment towards the posters of the sillyness that started it.
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Again, you further prove my point, and here is another new handle crawling out from under the rock to make an attack towards me.
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Heres a pointer, if you dont like what you read, ignore it. Why further waste you time by posting that silly remark.
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I think we all know the answer dont we?
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It highlights perfectly what started all the vulgar messages/deception and that was Boycott Novells expose on the alleged business practices of Microsoft. Obviously someone is upset.
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For the record I am not crying about anything. If you dont believe that inappropriate comments should be challenged, then fine. Just ignore me.

Okay guys, I have had enough of this stuff. I have the IP addresses of each and everyone of you.For those effected by "Forged" handles, sorry about this inconvenience it is only coming from several IP addresses which I have, so I know who you are.

Goblin, I have your IP address, It is also the same as "The Hand", "Garry Hobbs", and "Harry Gobbs."

If this is not you, then someone in your family may be using your PC or proxy. If this stuff keeps up, I will have to block your IP from this site. Also check to see if your system maybe compromised.

This is the final notice to all you tricksters!

Joe, if that is really you, then you are incompetent. Better check those IP addresses back awhile. You will find out that I am not Goblin.

Most likely someone is faking Joe now.

@The Hand;

Not you, I was referring to the fake hand. Besides I thought you weren't making any more comments on my site.

Joe, I have something REAL controversial to say....

Happy New Year!

And Happy New year to all, even to the non Linux users here...

Well Joe, or Fake Joe, whichever is the case:

We have seen the blue links faked as well in the names, and in the past even your name has been faked in a post.

As far as me not making any more comments on your site, please go back and re-read my comment. I never said that, only that it was a waste of time. I am sure you wish it was so, that I did not post here, fake or not Joe.

Now there is the question of Joe's incompetence, or perhaps its eweeks incompetence? When you have a 50-50 chance of banning the correct IP address, and you got the wrong one, that doesn't seem very talented does it. The fact that eweek has allowed M$ shills/astroturfers to run unchecked, unnamed, and without disclaimers, against the current Federal Trace
Commission laws is further incompetence. There is not even a notice or disclaimer anywhere posted on this eweek site stating that MS employees should acknowledge who they work for in posts, accordingly to the laws. This in itself could be illegal on eweeks part.

So Joe, why I say its a waste of time to post here, is the fact that you and/or eweek have no control/rules or enforcement, and when you do try, its like the keystone cops and you ban the wrong IP address, when only a 50-50 chance of being wrong? But then really, Joe, perhaps you wanted me gone anyway, didn't you?

Now the Hand is talking about the law link I have put up a couple of time before. First I would say that I am not a lawyer, but still that law is clear.

I don't believe that eweek/ziff-davis needs to put up an advisory that commentators need to disclose any affiliations. Although, it would be viewed as a good thing if they did it. However, eweek/ziff-davis and their blogger do need to do that, if: They have a relationship with a company that they are writing about. That relationship could be, advertising, free laptops, software, zunes, etc, or stock purchases, for example. Now this might sound like I am being hard on Joe and eweek, but I believe Joe and eweek while somewhat guilty, are clean clean compared to other blogging sites. Ed and George know who they are owned by.

If Joe did take some freebies, so what. I have stated myself if I was in Joe's position I would have taken the laptop, and said so right up front. Joe is probably the one blogger out there, where you sometimes get a little bit of the truth out of about Microsoft, and perhaps the most honest one too.

Complaining to the feds will most likely be a waste of time Hand. After all, power corrupts absolutely, and money is power. Just look at who gave money to the Obama inauguration, Ballmer 50k, his wife another 50k, and most likely 50k from his dog. So don't bark up the wrong tree, so to speak.

Now the Softies posting here as "normal" users, that is clearly wrong and illegal. At some point, they will be caught out. Most likely not here in the USA, but the EU is possible.

Lol.
Change of tactic here. Impersonating Joe. I think thats probably the best thing they could have done and I think that will be what makes Joe consider registration.
-
I have never posted under a different name, and always log onto this site with my static IP. That being said what the fake Joe said was rubbish, if I wanted to make numerous handles, I would use a proxy and therefore not have the same IP add anyway.
-
As everyone can see, I am still here. The Joe above is not Joe. Its simply Mr Hobbs or whoever that was now trying to backtrack. For peoples reference, I have sent that email. I believe Microsoft would be very interested in the IP of anyone who is claiming to be a MS employee whilst acting in this way.
-
I look forward to the real Joes return, so he can see for himself all the sillyness here.

For peoples information. If an allegation was made like this one:
-
"If this is not you, then someone in your family may be using your PC or proxy. If this stuff keeps up, I will have to block your IP from this site. Also check to see if your system maybe compromised.
This is the final notice to all you tricksters! "
-
I would be quite happy to name myself and challenge this matter further. I would consider that comment (if directed at me) to be libelous. There is nobody in my household who would post here. My WIFI is secure, and since I use Linux, so is my system.
-
I take full responsibility from anything emanating from my IP as I know its secure.
-
This thread is going to make an excellent article on my site.

Joe Wilcox:

As you know, some of us use more than one username when posting here. I bet Andre for example, has many many usernames here. But this is not taking over someone else's identity, is it? And perfectly legal on your site as well.

Its not the IP addresses that you Joe, need to look at so much. Yes, you might need that to ban someone, hopefully the right ones. Look at (use the force) the email address of the usernames. When they post, they have to give an email address. Only the original poster, the real one, will have the correct email address. Hope this helps you.

Well, guys,

This is the real Joe. The only IP address being monitored here is the fake Joe. Somebody has got some balls.

There is absolutely no way in hell that I would ban the IP addresses for regular commenters like Goblin or the Hand. As I've repeatedly said, there is no censorship here at Microsoft Watch. That said, I am seriously considering unpublishing fake Joe.

I've been sick for a couple weeks and not monitoring the comments as closely as usual. This is my first comment to this post. Any others from so-called Joe aren't me.

Guys, keep up the lively debate. You don't have to fear any banning here.

To show that I am real, I am putting in links to my two slideshows over at eWEEK. Two links in any comment sends it to the Junk folder. As the real Joe, I can access that folder and publish the comment.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Recession-Doesnt-Rain-on-Microsofts-Parade-in-2008/

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Apple-Harvests-Biggest-Crop-in-a-Decade/

Happy New Year!

The real Joe Wilcox

A few points for "The real Joe Wilcox," if that is really really you, and I am not entirely convinced either.

1. I was banned, so don't say I wasn't. Only one link in the banned post too.

2. Why not respond about the email question of Sam?

3. How many times now has this happened with users having their identities stolen?

4. The fact that one of you Joe's is clearly a fake, shows how badly this site is.

5. Yes we know you are sick, and would also most likely, like to spend some time off during the holidays with your family. That I understand. But have you noticed that this Troll/Shill always does this around the weekends and holidays when you would have the most trouble policing this.

6. In my post that was banned by you, I stated that what was fair for the Troll should be fair for the rest of us. Is Indentity thieft to be allowed, then the rest of us will do it too! Fair Warning, get your house in order.

7. The Impostor has enough knowledge to create a blue link in his name. Not everyone can do that.

8. Real Joe, you need to do a lot better with this problem. Its gone on too long now.

@The Hand

Look, you got to get over this. Is your wish that you want to be banned from this site? Well, I am not banning anyone from my site. I do not believe I need to answer any of your questions, I thank you for everyone else's opinions.

You really do need to get a hold of yourself and get through this. I would also recommend that you research and find out what Identy Theft really means.

To The Hand:

I mean it when I say there is no censorship here. But I got to wondering what the hell is going on with you claiming to have been blocked, so I started searching Junk/Spam comments for any from you. And there were three comments there, and they don't meet the normal criteria.

Movable Type offers "spam details," which says: "[IP address] found on service bsb.spamlookup.net." There is a spam rating of -3. I don't have privileges to ban IPs or even to stop banning in the blogging system. I can't say what it is about your IP address, but I will be asking that question. Why not get another IP, since most broadband providers dynamically assign them? Just reboot the modem.

What I don't understand: Why didn't you just e-mail me about this? The Tips e-mail address is there for a reason. I would have responded fairly quickly to e-mail and resolved this situation with less hassle for you.

For anyone else who thought that the "fake Joe" impersonation would bring this to my attention: No. Today is the first day I looked at comments since last week. It was a review of the most recent comments that caught my attention.

There is still the subject of impersonation, but first things first: Clear up this banning accusation and get the wrongly, automatically junked comments posted.

Once again two links for identity verification, since only the real Joe can publish a post automatically junked for two links:

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Recession-Doesnt-Rain-on-Microsofts-Parade-in-2008/

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Apple-Harvests-Biggest-Crop-in-a-Decade/

I see that the fake Joe got one in before me. I'll deal with him or her later.

Thanks,

Joe

Not good enough Joe. Listen you successfully blocked me out, don't deny it.

Coming to this site is my life, I have nothing better to do than share my hatred of Microsoft. So go ahead and ban me. I'll just come back with a new IP address and a name.

Yeah, maybe I'll change my name to foot, arms, leg, or my personal favorite, ass.

To chips b malroy:

I found two of your comments automatically junked by the blogging system for same reason as three by The Hand. Movable Type reported: "[IP address] found on service bsb.spamlookup.net." Your comments are now published. I don't know why the IP is listed on a spam list.

I will scold you the same as The Hand: Why didn't you e-mail me about this problem? I would have responded immediately. The Tips e-mail is there for a reason. Use it. I will respond.

Once again two links for identity verification, since only the real Joe can publish a post automatically junked for two links:

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Recession-Doesnt-Rain-on-Microsofts-Parade-in-2008/

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Apple-Harvests-Biggest-Crop-in-a-Decade/

Thanks,

Joe

To: The Hand
Why can it be that many of us (including yourself) are posting here exposing ourselves to be insulted as well as to be impersonated?
Because we are tired of the public opinion being manipulated and scammed by MS and some MS 'bloggers'.
Then why will you let yourself to be manipulated now (Joe or not Joe)?
My advice is that you don't allow yourself to be manipulated, but do what you think is objective.

BTW: obviusly at this moment 'are not Joe here' , thus I recommend take it with philosophy (The whole matter should sort itself out)

Once again Joe, the Fake hand post this last comment:

The Hand :

Not good enough Joe. Listen you successfully blocked me out, don't deny it.

Coming to this site is my life, I have nothing better to do than share my hatred of Microsoft. So go ahead and ban me. I'll just come back with a new IP address and a name.

Yeah, maybe I'll change my name to foot, arms, leg, or my personal favorite, ass.
..............................................

NOT MINE. So I guess we can expect nothing fair from this site.

Ha,ha, ha now I understand the thing is; bury, with a mountain of trash:
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/

"For eight years (1992-2000), I was the driving force behind Microsoft’s effort to make its Technology Evangelism (TE) efforts more efficient, effective, and ruthless, by studying both the practice and the theory of TE. After leaving Microsoft in 2000, I spurned the inquiries of numerous Microsoft competitors to testify on their behalf. As recently as year, I fell on my sword on Microsoft’s behalf.

So why come forward now?

Two reasons.

First, the global financial melt-down forced an epiphany. We at Microsoft always felt that we were on the side of free markets and unfettered capitalism—you know, the Good Guys. But so did the guys at Lehman Brothers, AIG, Fannie Mae, and all of the other failed financial institutions. Even Alan Greenspan, the High Priest of free markets, has had to concede that there’s “a flaw” in free market economics—a flaw that led directly to the current financial collapse.

My belief that I was one of the Good Guys was similarly flawed. This is now inescapable. I was wrong. Many of the TE practices that I developed, taught, and espoused were wrong. Anyone who continues to practice them is wrong. As a first step towards making amends for my past wrongdoing, I must make this clear, and widely known.

Second, Microsoft—where these practices were developed, welcomed, and endorsed as official policy—is this week launching its first public volley in the Mother of All Standards Battles, to control the de facto standards of cloud computing. For Microsoft, this is a life-or-death struggle. When Microsoft’s back is to the wall, can it reasonably be expected to refrain from using the TE tactics that it KNOWS will help it win, if its use of those tactics is unrestrained?

However, my concern is not just for Microsoft. These TE practices are very effective, and now that some of them have been documented in the public record, other platform vendors will be tempted to use them, too, when their backs are against the wall.

This problem can only be treated, I believe, by professionalizing TE, and thereby inoculating platform vendors against unethical TE practices.

That’s why I felt compelled to come forward now. Only now have I realized how wrong I was, and by coming forward now, in the opening skirmishes of the Cloud Computing Wars, I can begin to make amends for my past wrong-doing.

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/

"This is worth keeping in mind — especially amongst victims of Microsoft’s ill practices — in case a lawsuit is filed against the company in the future. People should not just avoid the company for behaving in this way; entire countries should sue Microsoft or impose an embargo already.

This is not competition. It’s unhealthy market distortion, it’s corruption. Real people are hurt and Microsoft’s competitors who cater for their families lose their jobs so that Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates can hoard billions and funnel these into governments so that they will blindly procure Microsoft. It’s the kickbacks routine, which perverted procurement is a part of. It has mischief and manipulation written all over it and there are heaps of hard evidence.

These things are large and complex, but thanks to input from readers and fellow bloggers we are beginning to obtain and put together a comprehensive alta vista that explains how Microsoft operates internally (if not intimately). Those who are desperate to dispute it must stop attacking the messenger; this only legitimises the message, which cannot be countered directly"
------

On the topic of impersonation:

Let me start by saying that "The Hand" comment above, beginning "Not good enough, Joe," is from the same IP address as the fake Joe. Somebody's pulling your chains guys. The "real" Hand posted the numbered list higher up. I'll take The Hand's points one-by-one. Each number corresponds The Hand's list:

1. I didn't ban The Hand or anyone else. For some reason, The Hand's IP address now shows up in the spam list used by Movable Type. I didn't know there was just a plug-in. It must have been added by eWEEK IT during the recent Movable Type upgrade.

2. Sam's e-mail idea has limitations. E-mail addresses are required but they can be fake. Where it does work: The real Hand's comments all have the same e-mail address, and it's different from the fake.

3. There is no identity theft because most posters already are anonymous. There have been two incidents where a real identifiable person was impersonated. At their request, the fake comments were unpublished.

As for everyone else, if you are anonymous, how can your identity be stolen? The Hand is generic at best. By the way, since it came up in the comments, that Mary Jo comment was fake.

4. If it were my choice, and it's not, there would be no anonymous commenting at Microsoft Watch. I have learned something because of this situation: Just how many of you comment as two or more people here.

5. OK, I'll have to watch the comments more closely on holidays and weekends. But you can e-mail if you see a problem and it affects you. This is where Sam's suggestion makes sense: If you use the same e-mail address to contact me as you put in the comment form.

6. I didn't ban The Hand's post. The IP is on a spam list.

7. It's no knowledge to highlight "Joe" in blue. All it takes is a URL. Anybody can do that, and spammers do this ALL the time.

8. The problem is anonymous commenting. Please feel free to e-mail about how much you hate anonymous commenting. I will forward the messages to my boss.

Q to you all: Shall I unpublish the fake Joe comments? On one hand, it would remove confusion over the identity of me, as blog's author. On the other hand, it leaves a hole in the dialogue created by all comments. My inclination is to let those posts stay because of context. But others I might zap if I see them before there is response to them. What do you think?

To The Hand: Shall I delete the posts by the fake or rename them as "fake Hand."

Finally: While I writing this missive, the real Hand also identified the fake Hand comment. He's right.

Once again two links for identity verification, since only the real Joe can publish a post automatically junked for two links:

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Recession-Doesnt-Rain-on-Microsofts-Parade-in-2008/

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Apple-Harvests-Biggest-Crop-in-a-Decade/

Thanks,

Joe

You aren't Joe.
I recommend suspend your post today, guys.
--------------

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/
“It could be argued that Microsoft’s unethical Technology Evangelism (TE) practices are “old news”—i.e., that Microsoft stopped using these questionable TE practices long ago. This is very unlikely to be the case, for at least three reasons.”

Thanks Marco!

Joe,
Thanks for the info. Nice to see you back and looking forward to your next article.
-
On the subject of the "fakes" I would personally like them to remain, with "fake Joe", "fake hand" etc.
-
You said "Just how many of you comment as two or more people here."
-
Id love you to name and shame!
I think its wrong for this practice to happen (no matter if you are pro-ms, pro-linux or pro-anything else), and whilst I may be a rambling bore, I certainly only do it under one handle.
-
In all seriousness though, wouldnt a name and shame policy be the thing required to stop this odious practice? and whilst there may be a privacy issue of some description, couldnt a disclaimer be put on the site informing users of the consequences?
-
The tactics we have seen only cheapen "the other side of the debate" no matter what people think of me, I would love to see healthy, fair and reasoned debate between all sides of the IT world. With the dodgy tactics and attempted victimization we have seen, this is made harder and spirited debate based on your articles is what makes this site so popular (IMO) and certainly the reason why I remain. I dont want to have to challenge inappropriate remarks, I want to talk about technology/software.
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Anyway, Ive rambled again. Cheers for all your work Joe. Happy new year.

I believe that was Joe or the Fake Joe's (who knows) way of saying he cannot do anything meaningful, and anything goes here. At least, that is what I got, if the last Joe poster is really Joe.

Therefore, the Fake, has won.

Astroturfing Examples: Learning How Microsoft Tames the Internet
http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/23/astroturfing-microsoft-examples/

Going further into the past, there are far more examples, but in order to keep the length of this post moderate, we’ll provide just two examples:

1. The Los Angeles Times ‘dared’ to expose the sort of manipulation we are still seeing today (even amidst the ISO/OOXML fiasco).

In 2001, the Los Angeles Times accused Microsoft of astroturfing when hundreds of similar letters were sent to newspapers voicing disagreement with the United States Department of Justice and its antitrust suit against Microsoft. The letters, prepared by Americans for Technology Leadership, had in some cases been mailed from deceased citizens or nonexistent addresses.

Notice the fact that once again, as usual, Microsoft uses one of its proxies to do the ‘dirty work’. One need only follow the money though.

2. Going further into the past, remember OS/2?

Some years back, Microsoft practiced a lot of dirty tricks using online mavens to go into forums and create Web sites extolling the virtues of Windows over OS/2. They were dubbed the Microsoft Munchkins, and it was obvious who they were and what they were up to. But their numbers and energy (and they way they joined forces with nonaligned dummies who liked to pile on) proved too much for IBM marketers, and Windows won the operating-system war through fifth-column tactics

Should honest guys finish last?

@Samuel,
I would tend to disagree. Anyone who takes the time to read the thread will see clearly that there is a deception going on here, intended (IMO) to muffle the voice of alternatives to Microsoft products. It doesnt matter if these people are paid to do this, or are doing it out of some misguided loyalty with no connection to Microsoft, there is clear attempted deception for all to see and IMO what these people have done is highlighted it in the most open way they can.
-
Im sure MS shareholders will read this site. They can draw their own conclusions from what they read. These comments are now getting like a episode from the Xfiles, trust nobody, conspiracy around every corner and at the end of the you are more confused than you were before, and all because people want to highlight alternatives to Microsoft in the spirit of debate.
-
Are we sure some of these posters are adults?

@Marco:
While it would be nice to see a real discussion on the unethical use of shills here in this forum, and the illegal comments by softies without a disclaimer. Joe however, or eweek, will never make that blog, and I really can't blame him. The simple fact is Microsoft pays a lot of the bills here with their ads. Linux advertising is almost nothing. If you turn off adblock in firefox, or better visit the site with opera once in awhile you will often, but not always see the MS adverts. So now we see a tactic of the M$ Shills, if they cannot win the debate, they will assume the username and ruin the site. And it might be an effective way, for that I got to hand it to them.

Its too bad, as it would have made a great blogging topic. But you can see now why I do not post as much here anymore, as you not going get a fair shake here.

@Goblin:
Some of us do have family members that post here as well, but they have their own (at least I hope) email addresses. Always remember, Linux users, at least we are told, have family members that live in the basement. Also, for a very long time, it was basically only Marco and I, who posted comments on this site and disputed what the MS Shills had to say. And if you think Andre and Niel did not use a ton of sock puppets, well, I got a bridge to sell ya. Remember, I a post long before you came here, Joe basically said anything goes here, except identity theft. And now, even that might be allowed, if that was a real Joe Willcox.

So another question is why does Joe or Fake Joe think that Andre is not anonymous? Because he has a web site? Web sites can be faked as well.

Thanks for the reply chips!
-
Since Im still a MS watch newbie, there is alot of previous history I am unaware of. Im quite sure that there are people who post honorably under the same IP, either due to it being a shared work machine or by having family members who post here aswell. Unfortunately not everyone can be trusted to behave responsibly and for that reason I would certainly support a "one username per IP" policy on this site.
-
Of course that idea is fraught with issues, what about dynamic IP's etc but its food for thought and a suggestion that could lead to a better idea being put forward.
-
On a light hearted note, I think Andre is real, afterall if he was imaginary you would think they would create someone with a little more talent at posting PR than him. Wouldnt you? Talking of which, Im looking forward to the next post on his site which in my opinion has the cheesiest name of all time "teching it easy". That being said, I think Andre's great entertainment, and I sincerely mean it when I say that this place would not be the same without him.

chips b malroy wrote:

"Oh one other thing, I also realize that Joe Wilcox (fake or not) gets paid by Microsoft and no doubtfully received one of those free laptops from his buddy Steve Ballmer."

I don't get paid by Microsoft and I didn't receive one of those laptops. Advertising doesn't affect editorial content here.

Something I find hilarious: How many people involved in this impersonation discussion appear to be the same person. It's a split-personality writer with, I presume, intention of polluting the comments.

As I said before, only the real Joe can post comments with two links, as those type comments are automatically Junked. I can publish them. So here are two fresh links to remove any doubts about identity. And a request: The sane ones among you, who come here to debate and to learn, please drown down the impersonation chatter with your sensible comments.

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/windows_7/who_leaked_windows_7.html

http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/corporate/apple_2008_from_mindshare_to_mac_share.html

Happy New Year!

Joe

@Chips.
When you mentioned "OS wars" I instantly thought back with fond memories to the A500/ST ones of the early 90's. (which by the way Commodore won. Atari was the poorer sytem ;))
-
Its different this time. Whilst you Chips are one of the reasons why I stayed on this site (youre posts are honest and thought provoking) I still disagree with your assessment of Joe Wilcox (and I hope its not seen as rude talking about him here)
-
I agree, I havent been here as long. I agree I havent read all his articles, but I base my opinions on what I have seen to date.
What I see is Joe writing interesting articles that sometimes favor MS sometimes dont. I see him as a very clever writer who is able to encourage a passion from his readers to post, and this is what keeps the site popular.
-
I believe if Joe was able to manipulate this site & certain posters in the way that some people have alleged, he could do a far better job of it than what has been done. The deception by those seeking to muffle our opinions is clear for everyone to read IMO. Joe did not have to come back on and post, Joe did not have to clear up some facts about the posting going on.
-
Joe may well be paid for hosting MS adverts, however whatever gets written, on a site called Microsoft Watch, MS is almost obliged to advertise on.
-
IF I was in Joes possition, and IF I was being paid/controlled by MS I could use this site to destroy the credibility of any open source poster very easily. I believe anyone else could too. Since we've had this discussion and a post from Joe, Id tend to favor the opinion that Joe is, as he seems, an articulate & enthusiastic reporter providing a popular forum for healthy debate.
-
Just my opinion, and probably the one issue where us open source users will agree to differ.

The last post was not mine.

The last two posts in my name were not me. and Joe thanks again for banning me.

In any case, to the real Joe:

If I remember correctly, you had the flu not long ago, correct? My sympathies. It sometimes takes quite a while to get back to a full 100% after being knocked flat on one's back by an illness of that caliber. Had that happen to me several months ago. No fun at all. Hope you have had some time to rest and recover amidst the holiday business.

@The Hand:
"Yep, the troll stole my identity again."

It would seem that one Hand doesn't know what the other Hand is doing? ;-) I'm sorry... I just couldn't resist!

But have faith. The quality and eloquence of the real The Hand posts makes them stand out clearly from your impostor's pathetic posts. A rose by any other name still smells as sweet, and all that.

Hello, folks,

I have unpublished six comments posted in the last six hours from the same IP address claiming to be Joe, chips b malroy and Gary Hobbs. It's simply ridiculous that I have to police comments this way.

As I said earlier, The Hand's accusation about identity theft is ridiculous when commenters are anonymous. That said, one person, pretending to be others and posting as several people is confusing other commenters and distracting the discussion. I'm putting a stop to it.

I don't know who this person is or his or her motivation. Maybe it's some teen goofing off, a Microsoft Watch competitor attacking the blog or someone with another agenda.

The unpublishing is a temporary measure. As I've said, there is no censorship at Microsoft Watch. Also, the faker clearly is trying to stir up reaction, which I'm loathe to give. But I must think of regular commenters whom this person pretends to be. Regular and faithful commenters shouldn't be bullied by wannabes.

Once again, here are two links, as confirmation this post is from the real Joe:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/windows_7/who_leaked_windows_7.html

http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/corporate/apple_2008_from_mindshare_to_mac_share.html

Thanks,

Joe

Hey, whats going on?
I feel quite insulted that Ive only been impersonated once (and very badly) whilst others have had it happen many times.
-
In all seriousness though, they say the best compliment is imitation, so I think all the regular victims of the practices shown here can take it as a great compliment that others see them as such influential people that by imitating them they can cause so much trouble.
-
Im pleased that there is the email address facility here as that acts as a password of sorts (sometimes my IP will change to a mobile phone provider if Im posting from my phone)
-
I am sincerely looking forward to 2009 and a whole new episode of sillyness by some of the posters here who cannot behave like adults.

@Joe:
"As for everyone else, if you are anonymous, how can your identity be stolen?"

What is "anonymous posting"? Even if I posted my real name, it's so common that I've never been able to use it as a login to any site. And I don't have a web site of my own to link to.

And yes, I disagree with the term "identify theft". It's more like nickname hijacking, and it's still highly annoying.

Take a look at Groklaw (among many others). On Groklaw, anonymous posters are defined as those who post on-the-fly without logging in. Otherwise, posters must register with a user name and a password. That user name does not need to be a full name or even a nickname (e.g. mathfox), but it is backed by a password. This prevents someone from posting using an existing name.

Joe, I realize that you are dependent on eWeek to create and enforce commenting rules. But sites like Gmail, Groklaw, Ars Technica, Facebook, Flickr, AOL's AIM, MSN, and others all enforce a password-based registration. And some require full name and address disclosure to the registration process even though they permit a more generic public user name. Is eWeek able to move into the 21st century, or will they let volunteer-run sites run over them technologically?

Brian

Who then posted as Philosopher because someone else hijacked my name.

Who then got disgusted with the entire hijacking nonsense and hasn't been back to this site until two days ago.

Philosopher :

@Joe:
"As for everyone else, if you are anonymous, how can your identity be stolen?"

What is "anonymous posting"? Even if I posted my real name, it's so common that I've never been able to use it as a login to any site. And I don't have a web site of my own to link to.
----------------------------------------------------
I have to agree with Philosopher, totally. He nailed it. Now Joe, your failure to police this site in a fair and balanced way, is causing this problem to escalate. I know you have been sick and its the holidays, but its not like this is the first time.

Generally I read Joe's articles as they are intelligent and sometimes thought provoking. Often I disagree, hopefully respectfully, and I state those disagreements sometimes maybe too passionately. I have watched the comments sections grow and most likely the most traffic on eweek is on your blog. That growth maybe in danger now.

(From behind the scenes in the shill conference room)

2006 "Now everyone is going to post comments on every blog and every forum about how great Windows Vista is...and if you do enough posts...you will get a brand new high end laptop."

2007 "Now everyone is going to comment how great Vista is despite its problems. Everyone here will deflect all problems with stating how Vista is selling great and how people are really happy with it. If you all do enough posts you will get free software and a brand new high end laptop maybe this year or next"

2008 "We need to get more people to use Vista and we need our Business community to get on board with Vista. Now I am counting on everyone here to post comments in every blog, every forum and even do submissions for newspapers. If you do really good you will get all the free software you want plus a shiny new high end laptop."

2009 "Hi everyone, we are cutting back...we cannot give out laptops or free software anyone and..."

(Suddenly all around the room people shout out)
..."What do you mean no more free laptops?"..."Windows Sucks"..."Vista Sucks"..."F*** This I'm tired of lying"

(And now back to our regularly scheduled blog)

Over on Boycott Novell site, it appears a Mr Michaels considers some (and I presume me) boycottboys. He's written a very dodgy comment claiming that we are disrupting the community here.
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Now the reason I post this, is because Boycott Novell have allegedly had problems from this individual before. Dont you find it strange that he alleges open source supporters damage this community. when infact it was those who were anti-linux/open source that were doing it. Another example how this is being switched around in an attempt to put the blame on the alternatives viewpoint.
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Funny that Mr Michaels, I could have sworn that Joe Wilcox said we were welcome to post here, and since he has not deleted any of my posts, I have to presume hes happy I post.
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So Ralph, he's probably refering to you aswell (although your shill boardroom summed it up perfectly) afterall who is going to sing the praises of an MS product if they are not getting paid to do it?
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Heres the link:
http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/01/uber-puppet/

Goblin :wrote

"Over on Boycott Novell site, it appears a Mr Michaels considers some (and I presume me) boycottboys. He's written a very dodgy comment claiming that we are disrupting the community here.
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Now the reason I post this, is because Boycott Novell have allegedly had problems from this individual before. Dont you find it strange that he alleges open source supporters damage this community. when infact it was those who were anti-linux/open source that were doing it. Another example how this is being switched around in an attempt to put the blame on the alternatives viewpoint."
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This is getting interesting, over at Tech Blorge there is someone who posts by the name "Ken". While he claims he supports Linux and uses it himself, If anyone happens to mention Linux...he rails against them and calls them "cultists"

Hmm ...same person?

http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2008/12/15/teacher-confiscates-linux-discs-claims-free-software-is-myth/

Hi Ralph!
If Kens definition of a cultist is someone who has an honest held belief in an Open source product over a Microsoft one, based on first hand experience and if Ken considers that a cultist would want to bring those experiences to others, without reward of any kind. Then Im definately a cultist.
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My definition of a cultist though, is someone who seeks to put over a belief using aggresive, misleading and "brain washing" tactics. That sounds very similar to actions of our pro-MS commenters who had their posts deleted off this site because they couldnt behave properly.
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Just a thought. Maybe "Ken" should come over MSwatch for a visit.

Goblin :

Hi Ralph!
"If Kens definition of a cultist is someone who has an honest held belief in an Open source product over a Microsoft one, based on first hand experience and if Ken considers that a cultist would want to bring those experiences to others, without reward of any kind. Then Im definately a cultist."

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Im a cultist too :-)