Microsoft won't do layoffs like a traditional company. They will stop renewing contracts. Next, they will look at the U10 (Underperform 10%) and fire them. Once that is complete, they will close groups and give the members 6 weeks to find new work - which, of course, they won't be able to.

Unlike other companies that pay severance and health benefits for months after a layoff, Microsoft will do none of this.

Or rumors like these will get the bottom 10% looking for a new job and making Microsoft's job easy...

Layoff Headlines updated daily
http://www.layoffdaily.com/

The worst part of a MS layoff is that they won't just cut you, they'll make you go through the charade of a performance improvment plan so they can get in a few more weeks of making you feel like dirt and how unworthy of MS's love you are.

I'd say to you 10%, don't bother trying. Kick back and go passive aggressive. Say "yes" all the time and make your boss' life hell for as long as you can.

Any clue on how many contract employee's MSFT has. Contract staff pockets more than full time but overall are likely cheaper for the company?

Joe, why is this. Isn't Vista selling like hot bread?

So then does mean the support for the astroturfers will be cut back too? Does that mean we won't have to read anymore comments on how great Vista is ?

Here in Vancouver MS leased three large buildings and to great fanfare said they would hire 600 SE's to do R&D. Now 2 of those building are up for sub-lease, they were never occupied. The reason they setup shop in Vancouver (Richmond suburb) was to get around H1 visa limits. They could bring people into Canada and then they figured will Richmond is close enough to Redmond so close enough. However they then figured out they could get these people Canadian landed immigrant status and then send them to Redmond on Canada-US free trade visas, thus circumventing H1 visa limits. I think with a certain amount of palm greasing they've gotten the process down to: 1. bring the person over to Canada from India, take 1 month to get landed immigrant status, ship them down to Redmond. However it looks like they are starting to squeeze the hose and slow the number of people they are bringing in.

I also suspect at some point the US government might stop turning a blind eye to this blatant abuse of immigration rules and get MS into some trouble. Perhaps if the US economy keeps stinking, Obama is going to crack down on this nonsense to protect US jobs.

This is also a problem for the Indians being brought in, since US-Canada free trade visas never lead to US citizen status, and if they don't spend the time in Canada they lose their Canadian landed immigrant status. So I think many of these MS employees will end up being forced back to India, and feel a lot of resentment at how MS just used and abused them. Again not good for the US image abroad.

A good article Joe, but I would say that it left out one very important moral point about corporations and microsoft in general.

In the old days when manufacturing was still going here in the USA, companies would still keep people as long as they had products to turn out and make a profit. They would however, shorten hours, based on demand of that product. I guess the gold watch for employees has become a thing of the past.

The case of microsoft is different, they make an 80% profit to cost ratio, abnormally high for most businesses. Microsoft is not losing money, nor will it in this recession. So the question has to be, why layoff or fire employees? My guess is even though microsoft remains profitable, it will take a first known decline in that profitability ratio, and show lower earnings in the next quarter. No doubt furthered by the impressive rich response to Vista, LOL. The stock prices will also take a beating, most likely.

Fire Ballmer and put the employees to work on real products.

I would also like to add that the 80% that I've mentioned in my drival above is a number that I threw up. I really have nothing to back that number up.

In fact, my stock tip is also something that I just conjured up. You see, I still live in my mom's basement. So please take it for what it's worth.

@Joe Willcox:

So Joe, is identity thief to be allowed here? How big a job would it be to try a username to an specific email account? Are trolls and astroturfers to be allowed to use identity thieving and get away with it? This is not the first time this has happened, it fact its like the 3 or 4 major time now. This troll that is responsible, will ruin and discussion on your site in the end, if you allow it.

Joe,why not tell us who the thief is?

BTW, for those of you that have not figured it out, I do not live in my Mom's basement, that was the identity thief posting that.

Joe, this is the same poster who has done this before, isn't it? Why not shame them and expose them, its not like you did not warn them before.

Microsoft needs its fat 60%+ gross margins to fund its complicated and expensive-to-develop software, particularly Windows. But the increasing popularity of netbooks and the Linux competition means its profit margins are shrinking. So how will it continue to spend on future, even mor complicated and more expensive-to-develop versions of Windows?

Its whole business model is under threat. The days of the idea of making money from selling software are numbered.

There are still high paying jobs on certain job sites, here's 3 from about.com's top ten job sites-

www.linkedin.com (professional networking)
www.indeed.com (aggregated listings)
www.realmatch.com (matches jobs based on your skills)

good luck to those looking.

I heard there would be no layoffs.

To be honest, I would be 0% surprised if layoffs happened - in fact, I am surprised they didn't happen already. Because frankly, the way things are done around here are so ineffective that it hurts my head almost daily. In my team, 5 people are doing work that could easily be handled by 3 without many people noticing. Before coming to Redmond, I worked in several different MS subsidiaries and I can safely say that Redmond is the least efficient one. Period.

No one has mentioned the hiring freeze that's officially been on since MY08.

Contracting is up but groups are no longer bringing CSGs in-house. That started long before FY07 -- on my last three contracts, I was told explicitly that no matter how exemplary my performance was, they would not add me to the headcount.

CSGs will be part of the Microsoft scenery forever. But the other comments seem square, especially about the 10% underperformers.

I am a microsoft manager, and i did not hear any layoff's ... No it is not happening in traditional sense ...

Economy will turn in a year, Market will turn in 6 month ... and we have to turn the hiring now to match the demand ...

"I am a microsoft manager, and i did not hear any layoff's ... No it is not happening in traditional sense ...
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Economy will turn in a year, Market will turn in 6 month ... and we have to turn the hiring now to match the demand ..."
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Yep, and Windows 7 will be great, people will forgive Vista. The face on Mars will turn out to be of Steve Ballmer and world piece will begin in 2009 and usher in a Startrek style utopia for the whole planet.
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Back in the real world, Mr Manager, believing that the economy will turn in a year is like claiming that you can run Vista off 3.5" floppy disk. My guess will be mid/late 2010 at the very least, although for us in the the UK I dont think we will see an improvement until 2020 at the earliest, afterall we've been lumbered with the Olympics and the cost of that as well.
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Mr Manager, you ever thought of writing jokes for xmas crackers?

Thanks for that articles. Once that is complete, they will close groups and give the members 6 weeks to find new work - which, of course, they won't be able to.

Just send the H1s back to wherever they came from and we would not have any job shortages here. If there is a need to drive wages lower, then make offer thoses jobs at a wage that works and let applicants decide if they want to work for that. The whole software industry should just be unionized.

Yup....Bumsteer is right....H1 B should be sent back... you are an idiot slacker with no sense of business….As a small business owner (software company with 25 people 1/3 on H1 B) my experience is most of the American's don't want to work....software is not a typical 9-5 job it needs focus, and some irresponsible America's would leave without check-in compiled code, H1 B holder has never done that. Yes they will take low wages now(because the way market is) but they won’t work and once market recovers they will be first to leave.
This is my recommendation if you really want to survive.First hire H1B (They take their job seriouly...).Second hire married 35+ American (they tend to focus but you rarely find very many in software). And third Married American. Forth.. .dont hire…it aint worth it.

One more thing if H1B's are gone, business will go with them remember early 2000's...be careful what you wish for.....and when anyone talks about Union he sounds like one of those slackers....see auto industry...what union has done to them

Will Balmer be included in the U10???

I guess he's feeling pretty worried right now ...

Failed YHOO takeover
Failed Vista release.
Monkey boy antics (if I danced around like monkey at my companies seminars, I'd be sacked).
General lack of MS strategic direction.

Sad that the soldiers, as usual, will be the one's on the frontline taking the bullets, while the generals, however they peform, kick back with some champers ...

Not layoffs!
Vacations

Joe;

Hey dear, you're gonna have to contact me as soon as you can. Looks like ZDNet will be making some changes and you will be asked to leave. Cutbacks you know, I hate contacting you this way, but it seems that you've been ducking all my calls.

Least we waited until after Christmas, and I hope that you find some other (kind of) work.

Oh yes, we'll be shutting down your access to this site of mine in a couple of days or so. Thanks!

Mary Jo. Why are you doing this?
Why are you behaving in such a way?
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I dont believe this sillyness for one minute,I believe Joe has many supporters here who enjoy his articles and find worth in his posts. Look at the amount of response he gets to his articles. He must be doing something right.
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I bet there are quite a few people (no names mentioned) who would like this site shut down. Unfortunately if a site has a facility to comment then there is no stopping the comments! So there would be other places to go. I really hope MS shareholders come here and see for themselves what has been going on.
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Id suggest Mary Jo (which I dont believe for one minute is your real name) that its you who is out of a job. Your tactics used on the other thread have exposed practices which people wish to keep from the public. Your comments act as a rallying cry to anyone who believes that alternatives offer better functionality to that of Microsoft products.
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If you were going to post PR, you could have at least behaved like Jess. A self confessed MS employee that you can hold a decent, intelligent and I believe honest debate with. It seems a shame then that Jess doesnt post here as much anymore, and a shame that we are stuck with comments like yours that do nothing except waste peoples time and fudge facts that have been posted.
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Are things really that desperate?
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Because fudging the issues is common practice by some, Ill post again the link with the allegations made against Microsoft and its "online policy" incase anyone missed it.
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http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/

People always hate to talk about when they are laid off. But as it has become every day's news headline since Yahoo started it with cutting 1500 of its task force last year, now a need of platform has been in demand where people can express their selves in words how they are feeling about their company, whey the got laid off was that justified or not.
And every thing they want to tell anonymously.And www.layoffgossip.com is providing you that platform.

People always hate to talk about when they are laid off. But as it has become every day's news headline since Yahoo started it with cutting 1500 of its task force last year, now a need of platform has been in demand where people can express their selves in words how they are feeling about their company, whey the got laid off was that justified or not.
And every thing they want to tell anonymously.And www.layoffgossip.com is providing you that platform.

Goblin;

You idiot, MJ is whomever it is, do you really think it is the MJ from ZDNet -- It was hallarious what this person wrote and I am sure Joe took it as such. You sir are an idiot for taking any of it serious.

Liste Pinhead, because after all, that is what you are. You need to get out more often and as Gary Hobbs suggested, take your wife out with you, HE may enjoy some fresh air too.

@Gary Hobbs:
At least read my post if you are going to call me names.
I believe I said "Id suggest Mary Jo (which I dont believe for one minute is your real name)"
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Check back, read properly and then come back with a proper argument. I give you the courtesy of reading your posts properly, please do the same to mine.
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Then you appear to be confused as to who you really are. You are posting as Gary Hobbs yet you say "Liste Pinhead, because after all, that is what you are. You need to get out more often and as Gary Hobbs suggested, take your wife out with you, HE may enjoy some fresh air too."
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LOL. Enough said.

Regarding layoffs, I'm a Microsoft employee and can tell you that every group is different and is responding to the economic downturn as appropriate for their group. I don't think there will be a companywide blanket cut in head count. This is Microsoft, not Boeing. Some groups base head count on revenue, some don't. For MSN, Windows, Technical Support, Office, etc., head count is generally tied to revenue, but for R&D and emerging products (Mesh, Office Live, Red Dog, etc.) it's not.

In my group, I have been told that we are cutting back head count by first, letting most vender positions go by not renewing vendor contracts (aka v- employees), and second, by only retaining contractor positions (aka a- employees) if they are absolutely necessary. My team is currently 3 FTEs (full time Microsoft employees), 3 vendors and 3 contractors, but by February 1st we will be 3 FTEs, one vendor and one contractor. Cutting 2 vendors and 2 contractors will save us a few hundred thousand dollars and not require us to layoff FTEs. We are just one team in one group, but the impact of many teams in many groups doing the same thing is that Microsoft will reduce spending by millions of dollars w/o having to lay off FTEs.

In addition to the vendor and contractor head count reduction, new FTE positions are extremely difficult to create. It's not an official hiring freeze, but there has to be a great need and strong justification for any new FTE position, so hiring has slowed to a crawl.

Will Microsoft's product velocity slow down with fewer vendors and contractors? Sure. But, releasing products and features at a slower pace than in the past is just fine in a market that is purchasing products at a slower rate than in the past. It appears to me that Microsoft is not making any hasty decisions and is evaluating head count spending on a group by group basis, while making reductions only when the market and revenue projections for a particular group necessitate a reduction in head count spending for that particular group.

So its Hary Hobbs now is it? Or is that a typo?
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At least you seem to be able to remember who you are this time.
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You'll forgive me, If I dont hold much worth in anything you say, it appears youre moving on from the homophobic angle you were appearing to take (and I would say there is more than a good chance that you are the same person as Gary Hobbs)
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Are you the same person?
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Are you really part of Microsoft?
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If you are indeed the same person as Gary Hobbs, what is Microsofts take on posting in the way you have?
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Do your line managers know?
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Of course Im sure its all just a big coincidence and Hary and Gary are two different people entirely. Yep. One big coincidence.

I am not the same person as Gary Hobbs. Just thought the name was funny if I swapped the G and H. Did your parents really name you Goblin? ;)

Yes, I do really work at Microsoft. No, my manager doesn't know that I posted this. No, I don't think it matters. I haven't revealed any confidential information, and actually, everything I said has already been said by other Microsoft employees on other blogs, including the Mini-Microsoft blog that spawned this blog posting.

I'm simply saying that my observations are that Microsoft is making headcount cuts on a group by group basis and focusing on cutting contractors. There has been no indication, other than anecdotal hearsay and pure speculation about layoffs of Microsoft FTEs. This is a rumor, so by definition, it has no fact behind it and I gave an example of how my team is cutting headcount w/o cutting FTE positions. Deciding not to renew a contractor's contract is not a layoff.

IMO, Microsoft is being very smart about making headcount cuts, and I think investors and the general public should feel confident that Microsoft is going to weather this economic storm w/ minimal impact in the long term.

(cock)Goblin; (this is what you do obviously)

No it's a typo I made earlier, it should of read, "Listen Pinhead, because after all, that is what you are. You need to get out more often and as I, Gary Hobbs suggested before, take your wife out with you, HE may enjoy some fresh air too."

Sorry about that, my new Microsoft Blue Tooth keyboard malfunctioned and didn't get all the characters I was typing. My version of Microsoft Windows isn't quite working well with the Microsoft keyboard.

Since I am a shill as you pointed out earlier, and this new keyboard I received from Steve Ballmer just arrived, everything I type should be coming out all right. Darn, if I only proof read in "Preview" first, but I was too busy shillin' when I ought to be chillin'

Also, Mr. Wilcox starts this blog with, "Blogger Mini-Microsoft says signs show layoffs coming to the software giant. The prediction: Jan. 15."

This is not actually true. Nowhere in his blog did he say this. He cited examples of groups reorganizing and moving employees to other groups, a few people being told that they have 6 weeks to find another position within Microsoft, contractor positions being cut and underperforming employees being fired. I don't see anything indicating evidence of layoffs.

Here is how Mini-Microsoft starts his blog post: "Rumors. Microsoft layoff and cut-backs and Reduction In Force rumors. That's all I have for you. Rumors and second-hand speculation and the comments left by the fine, good-looking folks who participate in the conversation here."

IMO, Mr. Wilcox exaggerated and quoted the Mini-Microsoft blog out of context. If layoffs happen, it will be a surprise to everyone as there is no indication of this possibility internally. Again, not renewing a contractor's contract (or firing an underperforming employee) is not a layoff.

Ah thats a great get out. Does anyone believe your "o it's a typo I made earlier, it should of read, "Listen Pinhead, because after all, that is what you are. You need to get out more often and as I, Gary Hobbs suggested before, take your wife out with you, HE may enjoy some fresh air too."
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Yep a typo. So then Mr Hobbs who works for Microsoft (or is that Hary not Gary, be careful you dont want to confuse yourself again), is this type of post the MS line, or is this just your own immaturity?
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I think I may have to rethink my opinions of you. With comments such as "(cock)Goblin; (this is what you do obviously)"
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I do not even believe I am speaking with an adult.
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I certainly dont believe you work for MS, I know MS is desperate, but I dont believe things could get bad enough to see any worth in your efforts.
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I suggest you take your childish banter elsewhere. Stop your lies and try to remember who you are supposed to be posting as, lest you come across as dishonest again.
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Im sure Ive locked horns with you before, and if you are the person I think you are I suggest you buck your ideas up. This is not a forum for children.
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So can you please make it clear, are you claiming to be both Hary and Gary? Is this just a typo you made twice?
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Do you work for Microsoft or not?
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Does Microsoft condone your style of posting?
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Youre doing great, Gary/Hary or whatever. Keep it up.

Goblin, are you really that stupid, or are you just pretending? Is it really that confusing to you? For your sake, I hope not... Your question was already answered: Hary Gobbs is not Gary Hobbs. We are two different people. I only used the name Hary Gobbs because I thought it sounded funny to swap the G and H in his name. Got it?

Quote Hary Gobbs"Hary Gobbs is not Gary Hobbs. We are two different people."
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LOL
Do you really think people this stupid? So lets get this straight, Gary Hobbs (who is not you) posts here, coincidently at the same time you (Hary Hobbs) post here as well. Now Gary Hobbs has already been shown to get a little confused (forgetting who he was posting as) and you claim to work for Microsoft. Right then, thats all cleared up?!?!?
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I dont know which is worse, your feeble attempt or your belief that anyone would fall for this nonsence.
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Just for the record, does anyone believe Hary Gobbs or Hary Hobbs.
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I believe you have tried this before, on this very thread, so let me remind you about what you do next. This is the part where you say "Ive just been wasting your time, and winding you up" in attempt to rescue a modicum of dignity from this whole sorry spectacle you've got yourself into.
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Ill await your next claim (btw you've still got Bary Hobbs to use)
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Keep it coming, Ive had alot of emails about this thread (which has been linked in an article on my site)

TYPO:
"on this very thread" should read "on this very blog"

and why Mr Hary Gobbs/Hobbs or whatever, did you not challenge the original homophobic posts, making it clear that it was not you?
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Hopefully Joe can have a look at the IP's and providing youre not using a proxy, maybe do something about the remarks youre posting.

Jesus Goblin - Grow up already you big crybaby and quit feeding the tolls. I wouldn't be a bit suprised is Goblin, Hobbs, and Gobbs were all the same person.

Oh very good.
I think its obvious to people who is making multiple handles here.
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A new handle eh? "United Defiance"? great. Well Im sure its obvious that you are now trying to distance yourself from the "Hobbs" issue, however I have some news that may interest you.
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Since Gary Hobbs claims to work for Microsoft, and since that particular handle seems to have no issue with what they post, I am sending an email to Microsoft. I am firstly bringing their attention to these threads and asking the questions a/ do you have an employee by the name of Gary Hobbs and b/ is his posting style considered acceptable to represent Microsoft with.
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Regardless of any opinions I have of Microsoft, I do not believe they would condone posting in such a vulgar way, so either Mr Hobbs is telling lies and he doesnt work for MS, or he is posting this without the consent of MS. Either way it will be interesting as to what they say, no matter what the truth, Mr Hobbs is further damaging the image of MS by posting in such a childish way.
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and for you united defense, I will link again to the article I know you have been trying to muffle:
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http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/
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Wow... you really are this stupid, aren't you Goblin. Apparently you're very confused, or just having fun keeping this blog going with useless posts. Here is my last attempt at helping you understand: 1) Gary Hobbs never said he worked for Microsoft. 2) Gary Hobbs made some inappropriate homophobic posts. 3) Hary Gobbs (me) is a different person that does actually work for Microsoft. 4) Hary Gobbs (me) has never posted on this site before. 4) No one has ever posted using the alias Harry Hobbs. 5) Goblin apparently thinks that everyone else posting here is actually the same person. 6) Goblin is a moron.

Hope that helps! :)

Goblin, if you have anything to do with that website or Roy Schestowitz, then you are clearly an anti-Microsoft zealot who will do anything to confuse the public and misrepresent Microsoft, so I'm not surprised that you are taking this opportunity to pretend to be confused about who is posting on this blog and trying to convince people that Gary Hobbs is the same person as Hary Gobbs, which is simply not true, and you know it.

Microsoft is made up of many thousands of good people who work hard at making quality software that helps people, businesses and governments work and communicate better and more efficiently. Are there some bad apples in the company? Sure. Any entity (company, non-profit, government) that is made up of thousands of people will have some bad ones mixed in. And yes, Microsoft has been punished for wrongdoing in the past, but those days are behind us. Some people just can't let go of the past and ignore the thousands of positive contributions and advancements that Microsoft has made to the software industry. Microsoft will never die (it's got too much money in the bank and too many investments). Free and Open Source Software will also never die (there will always be people who don't want to pay for software just like there will always be people who don't want to pay for music, a movie, etc.). Some free software is great. Some isn't so great. Some people want software that is supported, easy to use and constantly improving and they are willing to pay for it. Microsoft isn't perfect, but many of us who work here are trying to make it better every day... and I don't beleive any of us are going to get laid off. (like how I got back to the original topic of the blog) :)

LOL
No Mr Hobbs its you that is confused. Remember? Why did you not challenge what Gary had said and make it clear it was not you? What you did was simply post another comment under his with Hary Hobbs (I believe a typo since g & h are next to each other on the keyboard) Why did you not challenge the imposter? I put it to you, that you are that stupid if you think we will fall for this rubbish.
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So Ive got it wrong?
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As I said before, Im sure Gary and Hary are just two different people and this is a horrible co-incidence, however now to add further fudge to the slop, we now have another impersonation, and this time of Joe Wilcox claiming that I am Mr Hobbs. Confusion abound.
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Just for the record, I have no connection with Roy and/or Boycott Novell other than I post there, but its funny you should mention them, because Roy on his site has well documented incidents where his character and reputation have been attacked by sinister individuals with a proprietary agenda. Really the posters who organized this silly little attack on MS Watch did not think through what they were doing. All they have managed to do is further prove the allegations made on:
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/
(Which by the way was first posted by Chips. Are you accusing me of being chips aswell?)
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For the record though, if Hary & Gary are just some nasty coincidence, then you have nothing to worry about do you? and in anycase the fake Joe claims we are the same person so its all really accademic since I am arguing with myself apparently.
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Maybe I should start posting as Hoblin and claim coincidence on that aswell?

Q: "Why did you not challenge what Gary had said and make it clear it was not you?"

A: Gary's first post was three hours before mine. I saw his post and decided the name was funny if I reversed the G and H, so I used the alias Hary Gobbs. The content of my post was entirely different than Gary's (I actually addressed the topic of the blog). There should have been no confusion, but somehow you got confused. I didn't see any need to post a comment stating that I am not Gary Hobbs since that should already have been crystal clear, but apparently not to you.

Q: "What you did was simply post another comment under his with Hary Hobbs... Why did you not challenge the imposter?"

A: No one has posted under the alias Hary Hobbs. I posted using Hary Gobbs. Maybe you are dyslexic? Where is this post by Hary Hobbs?

Q: "So Ive got it wrong?"

A: Yep.

Q: "Im sure Gary and Hary are just two different people and this is a horrible co-incidence... if Hary & Gary are just some nasty coincidence, then you have nothing to worry about do you?"

A: I'm not worried about anything, but just so you understand, there is no coincidence here, and I have never claimed that there was. You are the one saying this was a coincidence. It's not. I saw Gary Hobbs post and posted using Hary Gobbs because I thought it was a funny name. Very deliberate. Not a coincidence.

Q: "we now have another impersonation, and this time of Joe Wilcox claiming that I am Mr Hobbs... the fake Joe claims we are the same person so its all really accademic since I am arguing with myself apparently."

A: We are all different people. I'm sure of that. However, you are delusional. United_Defiance posted that we may be the same person, not Joe. Where is this post by Joe? United_Defiance never claimed to be Joe Wilcox.

So, in conclusion, you are crazy, possibly suffering from some mental disorder, and I am truly sorry about that. I hope you get well soon. I'm done.

First off, looks like I have to challenge you again.
You said "So, in conclusion, you are crazy, possibly suffering from some mental disorder, and I am truly sorry about that. I hope you get well soon. I'm done."
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Please dont make light of conditions which some people do suffer from.
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So it was a joke, it was all a joke. Silly me. Hary, Gary its all so obvious. I would suggest though that after receiving over 20 emails in the last day commenting about this whole incident, I would say its you with the issue here not me.
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Why could you not, if what you say is true, simply have had a completely different handle? Id say the silly one is you, if you thought that your post would do anything other than cause confusion (regardless of what the truth is here)
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Id suggest to you next time, if you want to be taken with more credibility, you think about your handle carefully, lest you waste everyones time by causing confusion with another case of your "thinking something funny".
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I think humor is a very difficult area to perfect, and I dont believe you've mastered it here. Sorry.
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I would like to say Ive enjoyed chatting with you. I cant though. What I will say is that I have enjoyed watching you trying to dig yourself out of holes you created yourself.
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Best wishes for the new year.
Goblin. (or Hoblin) - Do you think that funny aswell?

Goblin, you're the only one who dug any holes for yourself. You're the only one who got confused. Hary Gobbs is a funny name. You shouldn't take handles so seriously. They are fun. And yes, Hoblin is a funny name, too. :)

Oh and... "Id suggest to you next time, if you want to be taken with more credibility, you think about your handle carefully"... Please. You are using the handle Goblin... Yeah, that's serious. You must be credible. lol.

"Goblin, you're the only one who dug any holes for yourself. You're the only one who got confused. Hary Gobbs is a funny name. You shouldn't take handles so seriously. They are fun. And yes, Hoblin is a funny name, too. :)"
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Yep. Of course. I thought you said "you were done"?
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This to me highlights the mentality we are dealing with. Not content with belittling mental disorders you now making playful little remarks about what you find funny.
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Your comment of "You are using the handle Goblin... Yeah, that's serious. You must be credible. lol."
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You obviously didnt understand what I said, so Ill break it down for you into more simple terms.
If you are going to assume a name that is nearly identical to another name, dont be shocked if you are connected with it. I fail to see what was funny about changing a G to an H, maybe someone else here can explain Hary Hobbs unique sense of humour to me?
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I have in the past explained why I use the name Goblin (and Im glad I do, since some people seem very keen to attack my character).

Goblin, do you really take yourself this seriously? No one cares why you use the handle Goblin. Do you even realize that all you have done in this entire blog, since your first post, a reply to Microsoft Manager, is attack other bloggers with sarcastic, belittling and argumentative comments? You haven't said one thing about whether or not rumors of layoffs at Microsoft are true or what the impact would be. You just post responses to other bloggers to flame them. You have added absolutely nothing constructive, relevant or important to this conversation. I actually feel like kind of an idiot for getting sucked into this stupid, useless conversation. Do you really have nothing better to do? You must not have any friends. I feel sorry for you. Until tomorrow... Ta!

Quote "No one cares why you use the handle Goblin"
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You'd think that wouldnt you? But it was you who made the comment, so you obviously do.
Check back on this site and tell me you'd be happy to post under your real name/identity with the kind of character attacks that ive had.
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Quote "Do you even realize that all you have done in this entire blog, since your first post, a reply to Microsoft Manager, is attack other bloggers with sarcastic, belittling and argumentative comments?"
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You try to belittle amental health condition, then have the nerve to say I belittle? Let us not forget Jess, a self confessed MS employee. Do I belittle her? infact I seem to remember defending her when others made allegations about her intentions (of course me defending the position of an MS employee doesnt really fit into the character assassination you are trying to do of me)
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Quote "You haven't said one thing about whether or not rumors of layoffs at Microsoft are true or what the impact would be."
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and neither have you. Youve made a claim that you work for MS, yet you go on to make light of a subject that people could take offence at. Are you saying this is Microsoft policy to behave in this way? and are you saying your unique sense of humor which Ive yet to understand is also Microsoft policy?
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Quote "You just post responses to other bloggers to flame them. "
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A complete lie. I spend alot of time typing a response and put alot of effort into asking questions that people dont want to answer. If I wanted to flame, I could do what some of the "turfers" do and simply post a one liner to provoke response. I dont believe Joe Wilcox believes I am a troll/flamer either. Check on the other thread, he told me my contribution was welcome.
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The reason I dont post about layoffs is because I dont know, and unless you work in a position of power in MS I dont believe anyone really knows. The Microsoft Watch site is for debate and I dont remember Joe ever saying that the comments HAVE to stay on topic (afterall our conversation here isnt)
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Quote "You have added absolutely nothing constructive, relevant or important to this conversation. I actually feel like kind of an idiot for getting sucked into this stupid, useless conversation."
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Thats rich coming from the person who claims changing a "g to an h" is funny and then goes on to change their handle again to Hoblin.
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Quote "I actually feel like kind of an idiot for getting sucked into this stupid, useless conversation."
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and for once we agree on something. The fact that you thought you could come here and confuse the issue with your silly "g to h" theory is about as insulting as you believing anyone would buy into it.
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Quote "Do you really have nothing better to do? You must not have any friends. I feel sorry for you. Until tomorrow... Ta!"
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Ah, and here come the trademark personal comments. Wheres the "why dont you get out of your parents basement?" wheres the "why dont you get a proper job?" wheres the "why dont you get yourself a girlfriend?"
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I wish you had read my blog, since I gave pointers about thinking before you type. You say "Do you really have nothing better to do? You must not have any friends" which I would reply by saying, well obviously you are in the same position as me, you have been able to post an opposing comment everytime I have.
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Now Hary please, if you are going to discredit me or try to cheapen my view, at least read my pointers in the comments section of my blog. This cant go on can it? I have a strong feeling you are the person who argued with me before on a thread that was dropping down the list. In that instance they backed out by saying "I was just wasting your time". I wonder how you will do it?
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Oh and if what you say is true and you do work for MS, I cant see them being happy with the comments you made earlier. Thats if you really do work for them.

Read my original post and it's clear that I posted on this blog for one reason - to comment on the rumors of Microsoft layoffs, and I shared my experience to contribute to the discussion. You, however, placed more value on my handle than the content of my post, which is strange to me, but apparently, you couldn't see the clear difference in the content and context of what I wrote vs. Gary Hobbs. That, to me, is a clear sign that either you a) are just argumentative and like to nitpick and complain, as is most evident in every one of your posts, or b) you are not actually intelligent enough to see the difference between the posts and realize that it was from a different person. Either way, I do sincerely feel sorry for you. You are obviously a very negative person who enjoys arguing and distorting the truth.

Haven't you ever wondered why people personally attack you so much, as you have pointed out? I wonder if it's because you are an argumentative, sarcastic jerk. Or maybe it's because you whine and complain and don't contribute anything positive to the conversation. Or, maybe it's because you nitpick, twist people's words and quote them out-of context in an attempt to discredit them. Or, maybe it's all of the above. So, go ahead now and reply to defend yourself, but all anyone has to do is read your posts in this blog to see clearly that what I’m saying is true.

Quote "You, however, placed more value on my handle than the content of my post"
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Come on. You post a comment (which of course would be welcome) in a time with impersonation of other and blatant trouble making. That wouldnt be an issue in itself, but instead of just choosing any old handle, you modified the handle of a poster who has now had his comments removed. This only added to the confusion, and I believe it was not unfair of me to consider you the same person. If you had posted under ANY other handle you would have had no challenge from me.
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You said "You, however, placed more value on my handle than the content of my post, which is strange to me,"
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I hope now its clear. I was not the only one who believed you and Gary Hobbs were the same person, infact Ive had people informing me on my website when you returned to make a post as they were convinced as well. Please dont try to suggest that just because the content/style was different it had to be a different person. Anyone can change styles its very simple.
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"So, go ahead now and reply to defend yourself, but all anyone has to do is read your posts in this blog to see clearly that what I’m saying is true."
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I dont need to defend myself, as you havent given any examples because you cant. Its funny how the people I challenged recently had their posts removed by Joe, so it appears they are right.
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Where have I twisted words? Please quote.
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Did you not try to throw light on mental health, by implying I had an illness? Please again, correct me if Im wrong.
Did you not say "you mustnt have any friends"?
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As I see it, its you throwing the insults around not me. I wouldnt stoop to the level you have, because unlike you I am able to counter an argument (especially yours) very easily. The problem with people like yourself is that you really dont think about what you type and leave yourself wide open to be challenged. I stand by everything I say, and as you, an alleged MS employee can you say the same?
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You've again failed to mention my defending of an MS employee (doesnt really fit does it) and I believe all you are doing is trying to generalize the comments of mine, where I have challenged like for like.
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Quote "You are obviously a very negative person who enjoys arguing and distorting the truth."
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I sugggest you retract that statement. I stand by everything I say, and would like to be judged by others (preferably not alleged MS employee's though, as thats hardly impartial) Notice though how I flood my posts with "IMO" and "I believe"? I find it funny about distorting truth comment, since Joe has had to delete posts that were doing that in a pro-ms capacity.
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Either retract that comment, or quote me where I have said anything untrue. I put it to you, that it is you trying to distort truth, and unless you can quote me where I have posted anything that attempts to distort it, I hold that comment in the contempt it deserves.
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I dont mind attacks on me personally as a rule. Where I think its wrong is when people think it acceptable to bring things like, sexuality, mental health etc into the conversation in such a flippant way. "Linux fanboy" or "go get a job" doesnt bother me. Making light of others and belittling their beliefs and/or sexuality does. Maybe you feel that this behaviour is acceptable. I certainly do not. I wont rise to the comments in general, but I will always challenge them.
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So then Mr MS employee, since we can go around in circles with this all day, and since you claim to be an MS employee (and one Ive engaged in conversation) Maybe you could answer the question I have put to all others before you. That is:
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After receiving years of feedback, comments and suggestions about XP, do you believe Microsoft took all this on board and released Vista? Do you believe Vista represents the "best of XP"?
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Come on, be brave and answer. Lets see how truthful YOU are.

I heard rumours they are hiring 15,000 is it true

Couldnt tell you, and as I think it was highlighted before, hiring/layoffs can only really be answered by those who are in positions of power. On the ground staff are always the last to know.
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Moving on, I wonder if Mr Hary will return and answer my question or if he will quote my untrue comments which he claims I make?

Quote you? I don't need to. Everything is on this page. That's like quoting an article within the article. That's ridiculous and a stupid game that you like to play. You obviously think incredibly highly of yourself and your own opinion, and I'm not going to keep playing this stupid game, nor do I have time to write page long replies like you do. That's a complete waste of my time. I actually have better things to do. Have fun!

Gobbs and Goblin: both of you are idiots.

@Anon
Thank you very much. Much as I would take an assessment from someone who cant be bothered to post more than eight words. I personally dont think we are. Thanks for the advice though Anon, Ill certainly consider it in the future. Maybe Ill ask some of my emailers to comment.
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@Hary Gobbs
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Ok Hary, youve answered that question, you cant. You see, you were very quick to throw the insults, however you are not (just like Anon) very quick to substantiate it with any evidence.
Much like the claims of a certain proprietary company. The claims are great, yet there is very little evidence to back it up. Maybe I was wrong to doubt you working for Microsoft, that certainly IMO one of their traits.
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I see though that the lies are quite hard to stop, are they not?
"I actually have better things to do. Have fun!"
Well you dont, do you? Youve managed to counter everyone of my posts.
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What to me is interesting is that you havent answered the very simple, quick and reasonable question I put to you. That certainly says alot.
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I personally dont really hold much worth at any insult you care to throw at me in your "playground" style infantile way. However it appears that "Anon" doesnt even have the skill to do that, and he appears to hold no worth in what either of us say, yet he takes the time to post on a thread which is now old.
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I cant defend your appalling behavior Mr Hobbs, but atleast you "give it a go" Mr Anon cant even do that.
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Lastly could I clarify something, as for once Mr Hobbs has actually said something correct. He said "You obviously think incredibly highly of yourself and your own opinion,"
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My answer would be yes, I do. Whilst I make it clear that anyones opinion should be researched before its either agreed or disagreed with, I have an honest held believe that FOSS is such a good computing environment, that I spend my time promoting and asking people to "give it a go".
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I promote no flavor of Linux in particular, and I have an overiding sense of fairplay which a/means I dont post in a derogatory way (unlike some) and b/means I like to see people use the software that is best for them. In my previous experience thats at least a partial FOSS solution.
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Dont you think it strange that people can get so aggressive, when at the end of the day all I am doing is supporting FOSS?
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Dont you think it strange, that all the people who claim "fairness" and impartiality cannot answer the simple question I put forward.
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Anon or Hobbs, if you would like the last word, you may have it now. Ive highlighted your shortcomings enough, and in the interests of fairness I should really allow you to "get the last dig in"
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Please, "fill your boots" this thread is being linked on my site so your posts will get read.
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I hope you enjoy getting on with your "better things to do" and Ill probably see you again sometime on a thread that is old where you try to get your comments in without me noticing.
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@Everyone else:
Dont you think it strange that Hary Gobbs is not commenting on any of the new threads? he seems fixated with posting on older ones. Does he have more than one handle? Or is he here to waste my time?
Id say it certainly hasnt been a waste of time, and all hes done is give me more evidence of the underhanded practices on some on the net and given me a few extra hits on my blog.

For sweet chocolate christ, all of you have way too much time to post....yall should be let go of your current position, because obviously you have way too much free time....The number of trolling posts here is too much....Way to kill a discussion all of you!

PS...I honestly think it's one person having a conversation with himself....:P

I thought Id just return, as Troll has done what so many others do when trying to get a "sneaky post" in.
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Why the late comment?
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If you'd been paying attention, the thread had already slipped down the list.
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Now we get to the reason why I changed my position and made another post here. It was the above posters two comments of "The number of trolling posts here is too much." and "I honestly think it's one person having a conversation with himself....:P"
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In answer to me having a conversation with myself, again if youd paid attention you would have seen Joe Wilcox discovered a pro-MSr doing just that, he deleted all the posts concerned. Joe is quite happy I post here (he said so himself)
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Again in relation to the trolling allegation. Joe Wilcox has already solved that problem, and the trolls were posting with a pro-MS stance, they have been deleted.
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What I do with my time, is none of "trolls" business. If people dont want to read it, then fine, skip the post and move on.
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Mr Troll, I will now pass the thread back to you for the last word. I just wanted to make sure that any reader who may stumble across this thread in the future is made aware that the deceptions/impersonations/trolling that has been done here was done by those seeking to muffle an alternative to Microsoft viewpoint.
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and just for you Mr Troll (I know you people hate links to sites which offer alternatives)
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If any reader would like to try one of these alternatives, visit:
www.distrowatch.com
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Thanks Mr Troll for enabling me to get that link in.
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Maybe we should next link to the alleged underhanded tactics that Microsoft employs on the web?

Send the foreign nationals back. Give the jobs back to Americans. H1-B? Isn't that Hindi for 'screw the Yanks over on their own turf'?

People always hate to talk about when they are laid off. But as it has become every day's news headline since Yahoo started it with cutting 1500 of its task force last year, now a need of platform has been in demand where people can express their selves in words how they are feeling about their company, whey the got laid off was that justified or not.
And every thing they want to tell anonymously.And www.layoffgossip.com is providing you that platform.

People always hate to talk about when they are laid off. But as it has become every day's news headline since Yahoo started it with cutting 1500 of its task force last year, now a need of platform has been in demand where people can express their selves in words how they are feeling about their company, whey the got laid off was that justified or not.
And every thing they want to tell anonymously.And www.layoffgossip.com is providing you that platform.