Microsoft phone? Can hardly wait!

------------------------------------------------

"Honey how come you didn't answer my call"

"The phone never rang, I have it turned on"

"Let me see that, hmm looks like your phone failed WGA. We have to take it in to the store to have it re-activated"

"We just bought these phones!"

"OK, let me see YOUR phone, hmm. Whats this message about your phone has a virus?"

"It..it says something about the phone is infected and you must buy this anti-spyware program or else"

"

I think it would be great, look at the value and options Zune is offering. It wouldn't be wiping out third parties, just offering more choice and as you said Joe, end to end experiences. I personally believe Microsoft is moving beyond this idea of just being a Software Company. In the 80's and early 90's it made sense, but now, form factor is such a critical component in how you communicate to the user. In 1995 everybody made beige PC's, even Apple. In 2008, its about design, sleek, slender, sexy, personality, color, brand, identity, fit, finish, integration. Those are the things to take into account, software is just one part of the game. I hope Microsoft realizes this, they already have with Zune, XBOX 360 and even the PC, now its time for mobile communication to get some attention.

This may surprise alot of people here who think of me as a "disturbed opensource fanboy" however IF MS are considering their own Mobile, I think it will probably be quite decent. Let me explain.
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Lets put aside the powerpack and 3 lights of death issues that the 360 has, lets also forget that I have now boycotted my 360 in favour of a PS3. Forgetting that for a minute, the Xbox is a decent system, when MS were tasked with creating a console on their own terms with their own OS, I believe (and I hate to admit it) they did a pretty good job.
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I can see the same with a mobile. They will not be hampered with having to consider a multitude of specs/hardware (something which Vista tried to cater for and failed, IMO like Windows Mobile on my MDA Mail) everything will be on their own terms.
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Much as I hate the way MS tries to muscle in on any available area of IT, I do believe this mobile idea, if true, could prove to be a damn good little system.
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I still wont support it though, and I still think MS needs to learn it cant simply dump its latest scheme on people, to the detriment of solutions. Will people buy it? I personally dont think so, like it or not, alot of the mobile market is built on fashionable gadgets, and I dont believe the MS product will be seen as a must have, unlike the Iphone.
-
Time will tell.

Lets See then,

Xbox 360 suffered the worst failure rate in the history of games consoles.

windows mobile software accounts for over 90% of the problems in windows enabled phones.

Holdens commodore VE here in Australia runs microsofts car operating system and results in so many problems such as battery failing to charge, onboard computer malfunctions and says to change your oil, service warning pops up at least 4000 kilometers before the due date. etc.

Windows Vista suffers the worst problems any operating system has ever had in the history of computing.

So now they want to inflict their stupid crap software on more people, and people who may see their phone a a critical piece of business equipment???

I hope that they just leave the world to competent people and not the crap they are dishing out now. The problem is that a microsoft world will be constantly broken with failures occuring in mission critical equipment all the time not to mention the deaths of innocent people in the medical world.

Microsoft is INCOMPETENT in the extreme.

Quote "Xbox 360 suffered the worst failure rate in the history of games consoles.
windows mobile software accounts for over 90% of the problems in windows enabled phones."
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Agreed completely Kitkat, but putting those issues to one side, the users of a working Xbox 360 with no issues (I was one of them) is/was a decent system.
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Even with the 360 issues, people didnt flock to PS3, and from what I read no matter how many times users returned the faulty 360, the repair/replace service was excellent.
-
That being said, the problems with alot of the machines does show incompetance, however I have always prided myself on giving an honest view of my own personal experience (even though I could never support MS), and for me the Xbox was good.
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Over on my site Ive announced that ive officially boycotted my Xbox due to the fact that I will not support a company that is against what I so strongly believe in. (open source) but I will say that I was very happy with the Xbox experience I personally had, and in the interests of fairness, I believe its only fair I give MS credit where it was due. (In my experience)
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For the record on the other side of the coin, I have suffered with Windows Mobile on my MDA mail for a year (and have commented here before on it) I personally will never use another MS product on a phone again after the experience Ive had with it.

Quick correction:
Where I say "Over on my site Ive announced that ive officially boycotted my Xbox due to the fact that I will not support a company that is against what I so strongly believe in. (open source)"
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It should be "In my opinion that is against what I so strongly believe in. (open source)
-

Joe says:
"I Believe in a Microsoft Phone
News Commentary. Beat me with a two-by-four. What if Microsoft has got another smartphone strategy separate from Windows Mobile? "
----------------------------------------------------
Again Joe Willcox plays the role of Micro$oft advocate, or promoter. Why Joe? Is this M$ Zunephone good for consumers? Should not this be the focus of a site called "Microsoft Watch?" So Joe, are you on the side of Micro$oft, or consumers?

While we could mention the Iphone and Google's Android, getting all the press, isn't Symbian what is on most of the others? So the Zunephone would be starting out in 4th postion?

Zunephone for a better word, anyone? Or how about Ballmerblaster, or Gatesgate?

In my understand, that you believe in a Microsoft Phone means you believe in Microsoft inc. It is one of the greatest company in all kinds of aspects. We can expect lots of what we want.

Source: Microsoft Zune Phone In the Works
http://www.crunchgear.com/2007/02/01/source-microsoft-zune-phone-in-the-works/

Quotes from the link:
"With the Apple iPhone is set to drop in June, and the Microsoft Zune Phone near December, this year is gearing up to be highly prolific for the cellular industry. What effect do you all think this will have on the scheme of things?"
----------------------------------------------------
And that December, was December 2007, folks. Looks like Microsoft missed another shipping date.

First have to grant that MS can keep a secret which has in no way been demonstrated as being slightly possible.
After that, well *snort*

Quote Apparelwoman "It is one of the greatest company in all kinds of aspects. We can expect lots of what we want."
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Im not sure that WM users and Vista users got what they wanted.
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Judging from the majority of posts here, Id suggest what people are wanting is an alternative to MS. I dont think MS can offer that. I dont think anyone is arguing over who's got the majority in the mobile market, so it appears your statement of "lots of what we want" isnt really accurate, is it? when it doesnt appear that MS is what people want.

It's funny reading all of the stuff from guys who say they won't support M$ because it's anti-opensource.

WELL DUH.

I don't see Sony or Apple as great promoters of opensource either... Well I guess Apple did rip off BSD because they couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag.

I have a windows mobile phone and a iPod touch. I love them both. I also have a MacBook a high end Windows gaming PC and a playstation 3. I buy the products that let me do the things I want to do. If Microsoft releases a decent phone with the business functionality I need with the media mastery of an iPod touch I'm there.

Microsoft does support open source. MS might not sell most of its software as open source, but that's a big step from being, as Goblin put it, "against open source." Microsoft is perfectly happy to partner with and support open source companies. There are resources and forums for ISVs who create open source software. There have been a couple of forums on the subject, aimed at fascilitating open source innovation on top of MS technologies. The world doesn't fall into two camps of "is open source" and "hates open source." MS are in the middle. The vast majority of MS software is not open source, but that doesn't mean the company is anti-open source.

As to the comments about MS dumping its technology on people or "inflicting" their software on users. Have you had some MS employee holding a gun to your head saying you need to buy MS software? People (whether for themselves or on behalf of companies) buy MS technology because they choose to. Whatever reasons they might have, it's still a choice. MS have whatever share they have of whatever market you care to name because someone made the choice to go with MS technology. No one's going to force you to buy a MS mobile if you choose not to.

People do not choose Microsoft software, it is installed on the computers they choose. In the only market where people do get a proper choice, they choose Linux as much as they choose Windows (Netbook sales are about 50/50 or tipped towards Linux).

Without the 'gun' of 'everyone uses Windows - so I have to get Windows', a much smaller percentage of computers would run Windows than they do now. If you just use cloud based apps then why spend an extra $50 for Windows (plus the extra hardware needed to run it)?

If Microsoft is not against Open Source, then they should be ;)

all i will say, is that as a long time zune user, and semi frequenter of the official zune social site, i was sent an indepth questionaire from zune to fill in about 3-4 months ago.

the entire subject matter of the questionaire was related to my current mobile phone-type device usage (such as browsing the web, messaging, camera functionality, and of course standard phone functions). This wasn't some 5 question questionaire, either.. it took a good 20-30 minutes to fill in, and was very much indepth. I'm not sure how many people were sent the questionaire, but i've not seen a mention of it in the press at all.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love my zune, despite the bad press it's gotten from the apple fanboys. for me it's a far better device than the ipod classic / nano, and i'm really interested in what a zune-like team (especially one headed by J.Allard) can do to take on the iphone, and other multi-touch phones.

P.S. Everyone always cites XBox as the success story of hardware + software + services, yet it cost so much to develop that Microsoft will NEVER see a profit directly from it.

The shareholders cannot be very happy about all this money being spent, just to dominate some future market which may or may not exist.

If Microsoft has too many successes like XBox then they will be bankrupt! Its only because they can print money with Windows and Office that they are not underwater. What happens when that revenue stream weakens with competition?

Ralph, you're an idiot. of course, you will have noticed that the iphone requires phone-home activation to apple, and has a lot of other DRM like 'functionality'.

try taking your 'i'm a retard' hat off before posting a comment next time.

billybob, to say that people don't choose microsoft software is utter crap. You could argue the OS aspect, but when it comes bundled on hardware that costs less than with the two other operating systems (linux, osx) i would say that picking that hardware with windows over osx and linux because of cost constitutes choice. As for every other piece of software that microsoft sells, from server OS, services, client productivity software, and even games i think you'd be foolish to say people do not choose those.

> Without the 'gun' of 'everyone uses Windows - so I have to get Windows'

unfortunately what you're seeing as a gun equally applies to every other vendor. for example. osx -> itunes -> ipod -> iphone -> safari. For example google search -> gmail -> chrome -> gphone. Buy in is buy in. Whether you pay £200 one time for that os, or £200 for every service pack, or pay by adds, and by hosting your private information in the cloud. You will always end up paying, and will always end up buying in to a brand.

what i don't get is why people will jump on to a site called 'microsoft watch' to post troll-like, fanboy styled comments that offer no substance other than to bash microsoft... other than to spread unfound FUD. Grow up.

Microsoft make most of their money from Office and Windows sales. I think we can all agree on that.

You agree that Windows is probably a fair case of people not being given a choice, so all that is left to discuss is Office.

I would contend that Office is bought by most people because it is most compatible with Office and Office documents. 99% of people do not need the features of Excel and Word so just buy or (more likely) pirate a copy, which further perpetuates lock in for everyone they share documents with.

Maybe you think people look at all the options and then choose Office because it has the best features, I am not so sure.

People obviously do choose MS software, but in those markets you normally find MS with a very low marketshare. In my experience people often choose Microsoft software because they believe that it would work best with their OS (Windows) and their clients (who use Windows). Some people think that websites should be hosted on Windows because Linux and Windows do not work together and any site hosting on Linux may not render properly on IE.

I can use any of Googles products without using any other. The GPhone is not their product, Android is. Apple does not lock me into iTunes or even OSX, they make Windows apps and iPods can sync with just about anything.

Yes, Windows is installed on a lot of pre-built machines (I don't know the numbers) but that's the choice of the companies who make the machines. Microsoft don't make the physical computers. The companies that do have made the choice to pre-install Windows (whether because of licensing agreements, or because they feel the majority will prefer that, I don't know). Still, someone other than Microsoft has made that choice.

Then you have a choice. You can format the drive and install a different operating system. I'll admit, that's considerably more effort than leaving it as it is, but it's possible. I'll agree that, when it comes to Windows, the choice is skewed by the fact it's easier to leave a computer as it is, but there is still some element of choice. If enough people were opposed to Windows, the manufacturors of the computers would stop pre-installing Windows. They keep going because (at least in part) there is a big enough demand from customers who want a machine that runs Windows.

As for Office or any other Microsoft software, Microsoft enables anyone to write programs that run on Windows. The Open Office verses MS Office argument wouldn't even happen without Microsoft giving users to the choice to run whatever software they like. Microsoft will support partners in creating software, even if that software is in direct competition with MS programs.

If MS were really as keen as you all seem to believe on tying people into their software, you wouldn't be able to run hundreds, thousands, even millions of non-Microsoft products on Windows. If you choose to run Windows, you then have the choice to install any program you like or build your own. Microsoft allows any developer to create programs that run on Windows as well as any Microsoft program. That is giving freedom of choice.

Are you saying that one company dominating 95% of desktop PC's is because everyone in the world all agreed Windows was the best? Nobody ever agrees 95% on anything. It is a clear sign that the market is not working.

The reason we are in this mess is because of backstabbing deals done in the 80's with the major PC manufacturers. Microsoft has done more than enough to kill vendors who were silly enough to make a competing product on the Windows platform.

The EU has opened up competition recently which is why we are seeing this different strategy from Microsoft. I think it is great that they will be forced to compete.

Without tying the phone to corporate Windows systems (which they cannot do anymore), how can this phone compete, especially from a company with little experience in making phones? They should concentrate on making software, its only so long you can just copy market leaders and expect to make a profit just because you are Microsoft.

Last time i checked microsoft already is in the cellphone hardware business. Microsoft bought Danger the makers of the Sidekick... My guess is that the M$ will kind of merge the Sidekick OS and Windows Mobile 8 together as Version 7 of Windows Mobile is too early to do so. I think M$ has stated they would also like to have the same code base for windows and windows mobile. I would love to have Windows 8 on my laptop and my phone with no differences in user ability.

I have to agree with the Goblin regarding the XBox. It is a great product with superb online functionality. Though the recent XBox experience update (Nov 19) does prove, through the introduction of avatars, that there is some catching up to do with Wii. I play only online games and mostly first person shooters. Of the three (Play Station, Wii and XBox) it is XBox that delivers the best bang for the buck in regards to my interest. Play Station was too expensive when I did the purchase and offered less of an online experience. I also didn't really need a Blu-Ray player at the time. Wii offers too little resolution and although the controls are innovative I'm by no means a couch potato. I'll get one when it supports full HD.

Does the high return rates of XBox worry me? No, I did my research prior to buying and got the Elite version. There is no free lunch folks!

I have to say that the hardware works marvelously as does all the other hardware from Microsoft. I would guess that a Microsoft phone would be a great success as long as they don't put the anti-Midas touch called Windows on it.

The fact that XBox is a financial disaster for Microsoft is of no concern to me (directly at least). I get a good experience from it and wouldn't trade it for another thing. On the other hand MS Office 2007 is a successful MS product I've had no need nor desire to touch. Now if they sold MS Office 2007 at the same price Gears of War 2 is sold we'd be singing to a different tune. But that is not the case.

@Jess Meats, unless you're boss has left the building and there's a new CEO at One Microsoft Way I'm hard pressed to believe Microsoft doesn't hate open source. Don't forget that you don't work for a software company you work for a marketing company that sells software. With a lot of companies like IBM, Sun and Novell going the open source way and the looming EU litigations on interoperability it is reasonable for them to sound pro open source. But just take a look at the actions behind the words. They don't correspond to true open source and open standard. Read a bit into the .NET "open source" license. Basically it goes along the lines of you can see the code but can't distribute changes and all changes become Microsoft property. Why hasn't IE been open sourced? Why is the XML office format criticized so much for leaving certain aspects of the format undefined or set by vendor (MS) specific implementations. And the list goes on and on...

It will take more than nice talk to convince a lot of people that Microsoft has gone the "open source" way.

@Gerardo
There's a big difference between hating open source and having gone open source. I'm not trying to pretend that MS are open source, but they do support open source. They are as happy for partners to build open source programs to run with and on MS software as they are for partners to build non open source programs. Supporting open source is quite a way from being open source, but it's a lot further away from hating open source.

@billybob
I admitted that the Windows choice wasn't a fair one. I said that the choice was skewed in favour of Windows as an OS, but there is still choice. I notice you don't disagree that there is choice in the software you can run on Windows. The secret to MS's success is that they made it easy for partners to build programs to run on Windows.

Jess Meats says:
"There's a big difference between hating open source and having gone open source. I'm not trying to pretend that MS are open source, but they do support open source."..........(yea right)

If that is the case Micro$oft employee Meats, then why do not the Borg release its "open source" with the GPL licence, instead of its own sort of an open source, but really not open source lawyer like licence?

Also, your boss Stevie B. has called Linux and Open Source a Cancer. So why again all the propitiatory protocols in all windows products, like media player, MS Office? Why the big fight to get it "standards" for office adopted, when nobody else wanted it? Let me answer for you, money and greed, and the company that you work for is a bottom line money sucking bunch of vampires that care not for one word of truth. So if you want to sell your soul to the devil that is Microsoft, that is your choice, but please stop with the propaganda.

Kit Kat says:
"Xbox 360 suffered the worst failure rate in the history of games consoles.

windows mobile software accounts for over 90% of the problems in windows enabled phones.

Holdens commodore VE here in Australia runs microsofts car operating system and results in so many problems such as battery failing to charge, onboard computer malfunctions and says to change your oil, service warning pops up at least 4000 kilometers before the due date. etc.

Windows Vista suffers the worst problems any operating system has ever had in the history of computing.".........................

I think that Kit Kat about summed it up quite well, as to why we don't want a Microsoft phone. And me, I don't dislike the XB0x360, but would never ever buy one, because of the high failure rates, it pure disgusting. And then, Micro$oft in their grand magnificence, agree to replace the Xbox360, well those only with the 3 red rings of death, for how many years, is it 1 or 3? Kind of tells you the planned obsolescence that Micro$oft built into it, and how long you can expect that console to last.

To jrb:

'Ralph, you're an idiot.'

No, that's you (the proof is that you have to insult someone to defend your point of view)

'try taking your 'i'm a retard' hat off before posting a comment next time.'

you have to control your desperated love for MS (= $) AND try taking your 'i'm a SHILL' hat off before posting a comment next time.'

'what i don't get is why people will jump on to a site called 'microsoft watch' to post troll-like, fanboy styled comments that offer no substance other than to bash microsoft... other than to spread unfound FUD. Grow up.'

what i don't get is why people will jump on to a site called 'microsoft watch' to post troll-like, fanboy styled comments that offer no substance other than to bash...ANYONE WHO SPEAKS AGAINST MICROSOFT... other than to spread unfounded FUD. Grow up.

billybob :wrote

"The EU has opened up competition recently which is why we are seeing this different strategy from Microsoft. I think it is great that they will be forced to compete."

----------------------------------------------------

Actually some Government entities have mandates for open source ....period. This means (like in the recent case of Russia..for example), that all schools in all areas and all regions must use open source....or the school must pay for exorbitant license fees by themselves.

This does not bode well for Microsoft, not only is Windows is affected but virtually all proprietary closed source vendors.

No amount of jumping around or throwing chairs or grandstanding by Ballmer ...or secret backroom deals is not going to change (legal) mandates.

Some view this as draconian, some view this as a cost cutting measure saving governments from huge licensing fees, others view this as progress. In simple terms we see this as sticking it to the man....legally.

I just don't know how the shills are going explain away whole school systems and other agencies across the world moving to open source operating systems and open source programs.

But expensive closed proprietary software is a dinosaur from the 1990's...it is starting to be on the way out as we witness the huge rise of open source programs like open office.

Hello Jess! I would like to respond to some of your comments.

Quote "Microsoft does support open source. MS might not sell most of its software as open source, but that's a big step from being, as Goblin put it, "against open source." Microsoft is perfectly happy to partner with and support open source companies."
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Perfectly happy to partner? Er Novell? Do we need to go over why that deal was struck or are we forgetting how the two "met" in the first place? Of course MS is happy to work with Open source, as it wants product penetration on that platform.
Lets look at Mono which is "sponsored" by Novell the official bed partner of MS. The open source ethos is proudly displayed on the front page of the site, that is until you read further down, and things get a little more serious. Maybe this is why Mono is reviled by the majority (IMO) bar those who will never use it, and the only reason they dont have anything against it is that they dont understand exactly what it is.
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Quote "Have you had some MS employee holding a gun to your head saying you need to buy MS software?"
No, its far cleverer than that. Its (IMO) a combination of product lock in and "special discounts" its a matter of license and MS trying to make it as difficult as possible is make a change, its about MS giving away laptops for "honest" reviews.

@Ghostmike
Quote "I don't see Sony or Apple as great promoters of opensource either.."
Im pleased you find it funny (as per your comment) although in doing so I dont think you understand what the argument/fear is about. This is not about proprietary, its about market dominance removing the possibility of alternatives. Its about a product which has a massive customer base releasing products which so obviously have issues. That wouldnt be so bad in itself, but with no competition, what is a user to do.
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I could careless if MS liked open source or not. I could careless if Sony or Nintendo liked it. What I would like to see is an equal share of alternatives across the computer software world. After all, we would soon complain if only one company manufactured PCs.
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If MS release something worth praising, I will. If (IMO) MS are trying to get involved with something that goes against the ethos of what MS is about, I get suspicious.
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Finally, I will end on one of my new quotes (although it was adapted from one made by great man called George Galloway in regards to another topic) and it goes:
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"Allowing MS into the Open Source scene is like putting Count Dracula in charge of a blood bank"
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Microsoft developing NVIDIA-based mobile phone - report

appleinsider.com/articles/08/11/24/microsoft_developing_nvidia_based_mobile_phone_report.html

quote from the link: "What do you get if you take an iPhone, remove the clean UI, user friendliness, nice industrial design, battery life, cachet, functional OS, and in general everything else that makes it worthwhile?," writes the Inquirer. "The new Microsoft phone, powered by NVIDIA."
----------------------------------------------------
Apple stock surges on belief MacBooks "peel away" Windows users

appleinsider.com/articles/08/11/24/apple_stock_surges_on_belief_macbooks_peel_away_windows_users.html

AND:
Apple sees Mac sales rise 28% amid latest notebook launch

appleinsider.com/articles/08/11/18/apple_sees_mac_sales_rise_28_amid_latest_notebook_launch.html

Quote: "According to data from market research firm NPD, which was relayed in a research note from Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster, sales of Macs during the month of October were up 28 percent compared to the same month one year ago. Given the MacBook launch in October, growth rates for Mac will likely decline in the months of November and December," he told clients. "That said, our 25 hours counting Macs in US Apple stores from November 9th-16th suggest Mac demand remains healthy, and was up 90 percent year-over-year, and down 5 percent sequentially.
--------------------------------------------------
So if this is truthful imformation, Mac continues to take market share from MS, and OEM partners of MS continue to take a beating in a recession in mature markets, where MS sells most of its software. The only bright spot for the OEM's, is netbooks where Linux is gaining converts.

Vista must be a problem for MS, and therefore MS is rushing out more Vista, renamed "Seven."

The big Windows 7 lie
http://blogs.computerworld.com/the_big_windows_7_lie

Quotes from the link: "On closer inspection though Windows 7 M3 (Milestone 3) is being revealed as being just a "slightly tweaked version of Vista. When I said recently that early Windows 7 reviews based on handpicked bribes, ah high-end laptops, to reviewers and bloggers could only give results that were not a lot different from those of a rigged demo I was more right than I knew. Randall Kennedy put the Windows 7 engine on a real test-bench and discovered that, at the kernel level, "When viewed side by side in Performance Monitor, Vista and Windows 7 were virtually indistinguishable. What's really going on here is Microsoft's same old, same old. Microsoft is trying to pull the wool over our eyes by making Windows 7 look great in staged events and by bribing reviewers with expensive laptops. They're also trying to freeze everyone's purchase plans by making Windows 7 sound like the next great thing, so why would you want to consider say Ubuntu 8.10 or a new Mac? "

@Chips
Agreed. The shame is (for MS anyway) they can say whatever they want about Windows 7, but at the end of the day Ubuntu wont cost anyone anything to try it. How can they compete with that? In regards to the MAC, my wife has had a completely different computer experience whilst using it. She's very happy and would never go back to a Windows platform (although to be fair, although she uses Linux on our main PC she still prefers the Mac)
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What MS posters never mention is that if Linux is no threat to Windows and Windows is this great OS, why do they need to defend its position all the time? Why do they have to make all these promises about what is to come? Why do they have to say "It will be better next time" Surely the Windows software would speak for itself and there would be no need. If I said the ZX81 was a better games console than the PS3, Im sure people wouldnt respond, as the statement is obviously so wrong. I wonder why Pro MS posters do?
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Ubuntu 9.04 is due for release in April, its promising even faster boot times, smaller requirements and an even smaller footprint (although Ubuntu has always been a damn fine distro anyway, and IMO outclasses Windows completely)
-

One million Googlephones expected in '08

www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/25/htc_raises_g1_shipment_forecast

Google's Android platform appears to be a much hotter seller than first anticipated by HTC, maker of the T-Mobile G1 phone.

The Taiwanese handset manufacturer is almost doubling its G1 shipment expectations for the year. HTC believes it can ship about one million G1 phones by the end of 2008, upped from figures of around 600,000 units made earlier this year. The upped figure comes from HTC's CEO Peter Chou in a report by Digitimes.

HTC also revised the company's forecast for Touch Diamond shipments this year to three million units instead of two million.

Chou claims HTC's business hasn't been impacted by the global economic recession and doesn't have plans to lay off staff, according to Digitimes. He added HTC has plans to purchase a US handset design company, but wouldn't reveal the name of the firm.
---------------
and it is only HTC.....

Jess Meats (MS employee says):
"My motives in posting comments on blogs - any blogs, whether they're in any way related to technology or not - is the same as most people's: I have an opinion. I have the same right to voice my opinion as everyone else. My opinion may be coloured slightly by the fact I work within Microsoft, but it's still my opinion and as valid as everyone else's."
----------------------------------------------------
Ok Jess, if you say so, and while that could be, your job description at Micro$oft is "Microsoft: Partner Technology Specialist," is it not? Which is sort of an "MS Evangelist," (or shill, or salesperson) to compare MS products in a favorable light to that of open source, isn't it? Looking into my cystal ball, I see a whole MS course for Partner Technology Specialists to highlight the differences between open source and commercial software, isn't that interesting? Amazing what one can find out, isn't it?

This should be a good test for you here, as there are a few advocates of open source and Linux here among the commentators here, including to some degree myself.

But Jess, a word of warning, or two. A few years ago, there was a Microsoft employee that took a picture of Mac computers and posted it on his website, and got fired for that. Be careful what you say here on MS Watch, and never try to agree with what I say, as that can also get your fired. I have nothing against you or Andre personally, and believe you are most likely two different people. But it is not my purpose to get anyone fired from MS, as times are tuff, and better paying jobs, like the ones from MS are hard to come by, so be careful, your bosses are not so forgiving.

I want to come back on the open source comments before I say the rest of what I have to say. I don't know what Steve Balmer personally thinks of open source; I've never even been in the same room as the guy. I don't know why the people at the top of the ladder make whatever decisions they make; I'm very much at the bottom of the ladder. All I know is what I personally have experienced. Since joining Microsoft (two and a half months ago) I have done a couple of training courses which state that Microsoft is supporting open source, I've met a partner who produces open source add-ons for SharePoint and who is more than happy to work with MS, and, just yesterday, I was at a Microsoft event where one of the speakers said that open source was important - not as a competetor but as something to work with.

Now I will come back to chips. A technology specialist is not an evangelist. If partners want to know more about the technology I specialise in, I arrange a meeting and give demonstrations or answer their questions. If partners deal with other technologies and want to move into a new area, I meet with them and explain how they can do so, what resources there are, how the technology would fit with their existing business model. I'm not a sales person. I'm not in marketing. I'm the person who other people turn to when they have questions on the technology - including its weaknesses. The job title is "technology specialist" as in "I specialise in a piece of technology."

I've been brought up to be honest. I try not to say things I don't mean.

Since posting comments on this blog (not just this particular post), I have been called a sock puppet, a borg, a marketeer. I have been told I've sold my soul to evil. I've been accused of propaganda when I expressed my honest opinion. It's been implied that my opinion is just corporate brain washing. I've been accused of trying to manipulate facts when I stated things as they appear to me.

I can see why the pro-MS people who post here aren't the ones who enjoy a polite and rational exchange. I have tried to be honest and I've been deeply insulted. I'm not some emotionless avatar of MS. I'm a person with my own opinions and as much right to state them as anyone else. I have been hurt by some of the comments that have been targetted at me on this blog. So, I can see why the only pro-MS people who choose to stick around and comment are the ones who hurl insults back.

I'm not saying everyone here is like that. There are some who have treated me as though I have the same right to voice my thoughts as everyone else. Thank you to those few.

To everyone else, I think I will refrain from commenting in future. Not because I'm scared of losing my job (thought thanks for the warning, chips) but because I don't feel like painting a target sign on my chest and standing there while insults are flung at me.

@Jess
That would be a shame. Ever read articles by Bruce Schneier? "Don't be terrorized".

To: marco.

> To jrb:
> 'Ralph, you're an idiot.'
> No, that's you

actually, one childish, sarcastic, snarky comment deserves another. I'm sorry if you didn't quite see the irony in that, perhaps you just didn't read ralphs words? As for my comment about FUD. I especially liked how you took my own words and made it mean something different. That's incredibly clever of you; on one hand you criticise me for my views, and then on the other you make exactly the same generalising comments you're critical of. Is that saying more about me, or you?

as for sales figures. It does make me chuckle when people band around millions of this, and millions of that. Yes, a million is quite a large number; most people couldn't envisage what a million mobile phones look like. 1 million googlephones is good. 3 million HTCs is also good, an undisclosed and often contested (but generally rosey) amount of iphones is better. However, on the flipside, sales of windows mobile (depending on who you want to quote) have been between 20-30million per annum. Not to be sniffed at.

Jess Meats :wrote

"I can see why the pro-MS people who post here aren't the ones who enjoy a polite and rational exchange. So, I can see why the only pro-MS people who choose to stick around and comment are the ones who hurl insults back."
----------------------------------------------------

There have been plenty Pro-MS people who have posted here who bandied about the MS FUD and company line about how Linux isn't ready for prime time and it only has a 1 % market share, Vista is the greatest OS ever and Windows still has a 95% share.

Some of us regular users of Windows and Linux are tired of hearing the MSFT company propaganda line and are finally fighting back. Because we don't work for Microsoft, get paid to comment for Microsoft or owe them any allegiance, our comments are a bit more more realistic.

My question is, when is Microsoft going to finally release something innovative? Seven years is a long time between innovations. Despite being a fan of Linux, I still regard Windows XP as the greatest OS ever developed.

Jess Meats MS employee says:
"Since posting comments on this blog (not just this particular post), I have been called a sock puppet, a borg, a marketeer. I have been told I've sold my soul to evil. I've been accused of propaganda when I expressed my honest opinion. It's been implied that my opinion is just corporate brain washing. I've been accused of trying to manipulate facts when I stated things as they appear to me."
----------------------------------------------------
First let me say, that perhaps you does protest too much? You notice the question mark at the end of the sentence, you were not accused of it, only a question. The Borg name, as far I know, is a term for the Microsoft corporation, and not an employee, so doubtful you were the intended target of that name. A sock puppet is someone who writes in here in the comments under more than one identity, being the lesser identity. While the sock puppet name may sound bad, its not really. Even being called a shill, only means that you are being paid by the company you work for (MS) to comment here, not that anyone is accusing you of that. However, in one comment I did use the word or before one of those statements, just to get your reaction, which I have.

So as far as names and name calling goes, if anyone has been on the receiving end, it has been the pro-open source linux people here. Just look at Ralph, just in this post for example. Develop a thick skin if you post here, we have all been victims of being called names. We are not used to those who do post politely, from Microsoft, this is an unheard of quality, or maybe tactic, from those who work for, or support them. As far as you taking offense at being called a salesperson, no matter what the job title, that is what a lot of the job is.

So Jess, I am just curious, if you took this course as a Partner Technology Specialist:

blogs.technet.com/sheilarich/default.aspx

Understanding the Value of the Microsoft Platform versus Open Source
Make sure you are prepared for fact-based discussions with customers by explaining the open source software landscape and the major differences between commercial and open source software. Take this online course (the first of three designed to prepare partners to have effective, fact-based conversations with customers regarding the value of Microsoft relative to open source products).
--------------------------------------------------
Is this not a part of the course for a Microsoft Technology Partner? Again, I am not accusing you of anything, just asking.

A suggestion here, you comments are found to be most useful, for both Microsoft and those who support alternative software. Andre's comments are not of much use to MS here, and does more to hurt the company than to help it. Refrain from the tactics of other Microsoft posters, and stay polite, and we can continue to have more meaning discussions, but first most here really did want to know a little more about you, and where you were coming from. Which I hoped I enlightened most to what you do for this company. Because of others that have posted here, working for MS, it will be hard for you to develop trust with some of us.
Regards, Chips

@chips b malroy,
Hey, wake up, if Jess (red) Meats is not Andre, then she is just another MS wannabe astroturfer, and will turn out to be his clone. That Meats has a nice 100K year job with M$, would not in any way get in the way of her (if Jess is a she) posting the truth, would it. So far all we have had, is Jess trying to either defend M$, or cherry pick points that others have made against M$. While her tone might be a little different, her propaganda and tactics are identical to Andre's. Even the "politeness," seams to be wearing off like paint over Seven, exposing Vista underneath.

I was the one that made the comment about Jess working for an evil corporation, and I stand by that. Can you associate, work, and defend for the devil, without becoming tainted yourself? Money and power corrupt absolutely.

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

And Jess, if you feel unfairly name called here, and want to go away, go by all means. I for one will not miss you or Andre.

My take on this.
I dont think it really matters if Jess is Jess, as all of us here can claim to be one thing whilst being another. Just like any MS poster can be accused of being an MS Shill, any pro Linux poster could be accused of being a Canonical Shill (for example)
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The reason I had no problem with Jess is that she made it clear she worked for MS. If she "cherry picked" arguments, then I can put my hands up and say I do exactly the same. I liked Jess because I believe her posts (unlike some Pro-MS's) encouraged independent research by users. Some of the things she said had me researching and I always say the best opinion for you is your own.
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The Hand is right, anyone who works for MS (or in my opinion any company) will have loyalties and maybe even a hidden agenda, if Jess is a real person, I can see where that comes from. She was recently a student who's worked hard for the last few years and gotten herself a job in a time of economic problems. Good for her. If shes not real, well her posting encourages debate which can only be good for both sides of the argument and lead to a more balanced discussion.
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Its a shame for MS in a way. If they hadnt employed the shilling tactics that have been leveled against them by many sites, maybe every pro MS wouldnt be labeled a shill (as Im sure there are some pro-MS posters who have an honest held belief that the products are good.)
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I think that fact is something MS has failed to understand. I wrote something complimentary to a MS product on my site a while ago and received alot of complaints. I was accused of being an MS Shill and anyone who has read more than one of my posts here would know that is certainly not the case.
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IMO MS have ruined their chances of good PR by employing tactics which now cast doubt on anyone with a good word to say about MS.
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I think this will be MS's undoing, and why come Windows 7, they are in for a shock, when they see that Mac and Linux have taken a chunk of their business away.

jrb :

First; Do not read excessively there, simply you could realise that your comments make more sense when quoted and amended by me.
Second-About Google: It was to emphasise that a business with problems like HTC will escape the credit crunch thanks to Android... and that in itself means a lot.(And the numbers are not bad for it's just beginning-is it not?)

I shall end quoting chips: "and stay polite, and we can continue to have more meaning discussions but first most here really did want to know a little more about you"...including...if you have some sort of link to Microsoft.

Goblin says:
"Just like any MS poster can be accused of being an MS Shill, any pro Linux poster could be accused of being a Canonical Shill (for example)"
----------------------------------------------------
Goblin, as far as I know, Canonical does not "pay, or promote by gifts or any other means," the use of shills, AstroTurfs, or employees, to write comments to this site or any other sites. Do you know of some that I do not??? I think not, as Ubuntu's main advertising, is word of mouth, and a free disk sent in the mail. And that, is the largest of all the free home type GPL community distro's advertising budgets. All of the commercial linux's to my knowledge, (with the possible exception of SCO which at one time had a linux version) have not been known to do this type of behavior either, unless you can provide some kind of facts that I am unaware of?

Now I stated somewhere, that Jess admitting working for MS right away, did impress me, and gained my respect. But that does not mean, that I going blindly accept that one does not have a hidden agenda, therefore the question about the open source course, which has not been answered yet BTW. I want to believe in the "good" side of Microsoft, that there is one. I want to believe in the good people that do work at Microsoft, there are more working there than bad. I want to believe in Jess, but I have learned not to completely trust almost anyone on this site, who writes in defending MS. Goblin, do a search for "Microsoft Partner Technology Specialist." One of there specialties, is to discuss open source vs microsoft products with partners. Translation, there are the ones that know about the technology or software, and convince others to buy the MS software product over open source and linux, usually for larger corporations. It is a semantic difference when Jess says not a salesperson. Jess does not make the sale, only convinces them to buy Microsoft. There is a further salesperson to do that most likely.

That is part of the reason I asked Jess about the open source course, as Jess seamed very interested in every open source discussion here up to this point.

Now Jess may be exactly who she says, and the reasons pure truthful. So far, the semantic differences, and the little digging I have done, I am not impressed anymore. But, I would not be religious about it like the hand is. Enough about Jess, we have wasted enough time making those who are only interested in defending the "richness" of Micro$oft their priority here. And if Jess is one of those (most likely so far), then Jess's work is cut out for Jess.

@Marco:
"most here really did want to know a little more about you"...including...if you have some sort of link to Microsoft."
----------------------------------------------------
Jess used the link in the name a few times in previous posts. I have not visited the site, but it is hosted and owned by M$. Also you can check out the one link I posted about the open source course by MS for those of Jess's title. And google is your friend of course. As you know, I seldom make statements without having some kind of proof.

@Chips, I entirely agree with many points. However in regards to say, Canonical, (and I profess to not knowing the ins and outs of the company), I presume that Canonical makes money, I presume that the more users of its distro the better and more opportunities to sell support etc. So in that respect there could be such a thing. Is there such a thing as a Canonical Shill? Wouldnt think so, however thats doesnt mean there are not people who have a financial interest in promoting it. My example was intended to highlight an allegation that could be put to a Ubuntu user, who posts prolinux statements in the same way an MS-shiller does. It was hypothetical.
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Canonical is a company thats makes money, and, who I am under no illusion, would be quite happy to be in MS's position IMO. Or maybe Ive misunderstood Canonical and how it runs.
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Lets say for arguments sake Jess was a fictitious character and is indeed paid by MS to post here. The worst thing anyone can do is belittle her opinion with either abuse or dismissal. She has been "honest" in her admittions, and I feel that approaching her opinions from anything other than "good faith" would turn her into a MS martyr which would further strengthen MS's position. Jess is either a genuine person, or a rather clever tactic employed by MS and if she's the latter IMO its very important that the anti-ms argument is seen to be fair, balanced and tolerant of others, lest we get seen as "internet bullies" and MS is seen as the "honest" and true viewpoint.
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Other MS-shillers are less problematic. The blatant advert posters are as obvious as the adverts at the top of the page. Where a MS shiller can become dangerous is when they can relate to people on a "human" level and even better if they can be seen as a victim, whilst peddling their propaganda.
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Of course I dislike MS. Of course I believe that MS would love to infect the open source scene with its proprietary and lockin. Of course I believe Open Office is far more relevant to most users than MSoffice and of course I believe the Linux platform is far superior and functional to the Windows platform, but at the end of the day all that stands for nothing if we cannot be seen to be fair and tolerant.
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I think the argument against open source that a microsoft salesperson will put forward is being eroded now by people realising that open source is a viable and cost effective alternative to MS. I think Linux is starting to loose its image as being "for geeks only" and I think that people are migrating to MAC's because they want a change aswel, the problems of Vista and MS are now not only in the minds of the experts, but even the average or casual user is aware and that will be responsible for MS's loosing its grip on the IT market.
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Oh and for the record of everyone here, I personally dont have any MS software on my system. I currently use Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid Ibex and I personally think its a far better O/S than Windows has EVER been. - If Jess or anyone else wants to put her cards on the table, so can I.

To chips:
'As you know, I seldom make statements without having some kind of proof.'

I know that, I was asking it to jrb ( I didn't read the Jess post)
----------
Goblin :
Something about shills:
I wrote some time ago;

"If any body supports Microsoft, then every one assumes that he is paid for that. And if any body condemns Microsoft and Supports Linux, then Why he is not paid?"

I am thinking about some facts;
 MS is the biggest software's company in the World
 MS gets its objectives with no respect for ethics, and is able to achieve this based on its enormous economic and political power, cunning lawyers and general lack of scruples
 MS is a legally proven criminal.
MS, because of its monopoly, charges us with abusive and excessively high prices (proof: its obscene enrichment) all for a bad or mediocre product or service. Then it perpetuates this situation with the killing of every newly born company that could compete against MS.

Therefore just either the masochistic or naive (somebody once said only fools and/or people affected by the Stockholm syndrome) can defend/love something that takes advantage over them (something like a MONOPOLY that OVERPRICES its products.)
MS doesn't care about you (DRM) and treats you as it would a thief (WGA), etc, etc. But if you aren't a masochist or an ingénue, you are Shill (more intelligent but without scruples) and that is not good either.

You don’t know to me, you can call me a Linux fanboy/Shill and it would not offend me, although it was true or a just a lie -because it is not an offence on itself. You would then calling me someone who defends the right thing, not allowing himself to be bullied, and watches over their own and their family's interests, someone who is looking for general well-being because software is a commodity and wants that all people have it without having to be ripped-off.

@Goblin :
I know that if you search google for astroturfers, the name microsoft will come up, its a known fact they do it. Ubuntu, does not come up.

Goblin says: "Other MS-shillers are less problematic."
----------------------------------------------------
This is true, because we are talking about most likely a real person at some point here. Whether a shill or an honest person, and most likely a young lady as well.

I also tried to warn her, about the MS employee back awhile ago that took a picture of a flat of Mac computers sitting on a dock gate at MS Redmond, and put them on his blog site. He got fired for that, and I was just trying to be nice to Jess, and warn her, be careful what you say here, and never agree with me in print. Sadly, this would also make her discussion here far far less interesting, as all she could really do is to support the official line from MS, without fear of losing her job, unless of course, well, u get the idea.

But your point is taken, that MS might use someone to try to get symphony and paint linux and open source posters, as crude and rude. My points have been that once you post your links, or information here, you will be subject to a possible search to discover your motives. While I still give Jess the benefit of the doubt, I would still like an answer to the question about the course, if she took it or not.

Again, a search for Jess job title reveals this site for one:
http://blogs.technet.com/sheilarich/default.aspx

Read the second paragraph or link down on that link. It's titled:
"Understanding the Value of the Microsoft Platform versus Open Source"

This being of course another site like Jess's in the same MS site.

I do not do this to accuse Jess of anything, only to understand what she does and what kind of angle she might have, if she has not been completely forthcoming with us.

Ah! I want not confusion, I know that you are NOT calling shill to somebody here.

Goblin:
Ah! I want not confusion, I know that you are NOT calling shill to somebody here.

I dislike the term "fanboy" as I believe it belittles an honest held belief of product. I am a fan of Linux, having used many distro's over the years and finally settling with Ubuntu as the whole family are comfortable with it. Am I a fanboy? - Yes probably. I have considerable loyalty to a product that I believe is functional, fast and easy to use.
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Quote Marco "You would then calling me someone who defends the right thing, not allowing himself to be bullied, and watches over their own and their family's interests, someone who is looking for general well-being because software is a commodity and wants that all people have it without having to be ripped-off
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I completely agree with your statement, I too defend and promote Linux, however the point I was trying to make is that we have to be careful in how we put our message across. We know the advantages of Linux/open source, an "average user" may not, they may have used Windows since their first PC and they may have spent years buying software. This is why I believe in posting and responding to MS shillers we have to be very carefull. MS is what the average user knows, if they are not understanding of the opensource /linux world and they see us posting in a confrontational or complex and jargon laced way, then I believe that this would put off a wouldbe Linux user. I am sure nobody wants that and an average user reading this page, may not even fully be aware that there are MS shillers.
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When Jess first posted, I could see that her style could be dangerous. The uninformed Windows user may see that style as "human" and any agressive challenges to her, I believe could cast (unintentionaly) a bad light on the Linux world. That is why I said "be seen to be tolerant and fair"
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Marco, all your points against MS I agree with.
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Maybe its only me that thinks the Jess style (and Im not implying Jess is a shiller, because I dont know) is dangerous. Thats why it has to be challenged in a different way to some of the other shillers here.
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Great debate btw
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Regards.

@Goblin:
Points taken. Agreed.

With respect to Ubuntu, while I do not usually use it, but do try out Mint on occasion. Its a good distro, as are most. The reason I disagreed with you about the ubuntu shill statement, is that point was made without any real facts, and was also made here a long time before you were here, by diehard MS'ers, again without facts. Might have been either Andre or the one from the south hemishere with the xp machine who promoted Vista. Myself, I would want some kind of either facts or evidence that ubuntu does indeed do that, which I think both us know its very unlikely that they do so. Otherwise, this would be the type of statement that Andre would make. And we don't want to make Andre's case for him. I have never seen any evidence that Shuttleworth pays for anything other than the development of Ubuntu into a first class operating system for the benefit of mankind. For that I thank him, even though I prefer other distro's first.

Widespread Malware Attacks Target Windows 7, Vista SP1 and XP SP3 Vulnerability

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Widespread-Malware-Attacks-Target-Windows-7-Vista-SP1-and-XP-SP3-Vulnerability-98716.shtml

Quote from the link: " Microsoft confirmed not only that malware attacks designed to take advantage of a Server Service vulnerability, affecting both Windows client and server versions of the platform, were no longer isolated and targeted cases, but also that infections with malicious code had been detected. The security update was designed to integrate with a variety of Windows operating systems, including Windows Vista SP1, Windows XP SP3 and even Windows 7. “During the weekend, we started receiving customer reports for new malware that exploits this vulnerability. During the last two days, that malware gained momentum and, as a result, we see an increased support call volume,” Mador revealed."
----------------------------------------------------
For those of you running those systems, so you can get the patch.

@Chips
I was accused of having a financial motive in regards to Ubuntu on this very site. Obviously that is not the case, and although Ubuntu is the distro I use, Im pretty sure others would champion a different one.
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When you said "he reason I disagreed with you about the ubuntu shill statement, is that point was made without any real facts"
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I think I put my point across badly, I tried to show a hypothetical situation (the only reason I picked Canonical was because it was the first that came to mind), and certainly for the uninformed Linux/open source being free is a concept they cannot comprehend.
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One of the previous MS shillers made a very true comment when they said a product is promoted by word of mouth. I live in a small village, and whilst everyone bought their PC with Windows pre-installed, I know 10 homes in my street alone that use Linux now. Word of mouth is certainly a benefit to the Linux platform.
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Anyway moving on, when MS cant even stop their own blogs getting hit with the silly spam Akimet stops with ease, I dont think its any surprise that their OS is just as vulnerable. The sad thing is people still accept this as a "occupational hazzard" of using Windows, and whats even sadder is that they think its the norm.
That being said, maybe its a good thing, maybe all these exploits and vulnerabilities will encourage them to try Linux, and if, like me and every other Linux user here they find the experience as good as I (and everyone else) did, they wont go back to MS.

I'll add my worthless 2 cents here...I do get free software from Linux...then again ANYBODY can. I don't work for any software company.

Even more so, many long time Windows users are finding out the benefits of a dual boot system including Linux on a Windows hard drive. In fact it has been made easier to install Ubuntu on a Windows machine with the introduction of a new feature called Wubi which installs Ubuntu much like you would install Firefox.

Many new users to Linux started out with a Live CD, just put the CD into the CD drive. Shut off the computer and restart and operate your computer from your CD drive. Even non savvy users can load a CD into their computer. Thats is all their is to operate from a Live CD. It is quick and painless and makes for safe computing. In fact Linux was well ahead of the game for years before Microsoft used the term "trusted computing".

And there is that F word...FREE

What is exciting the most is that finally I am no longer beholden to pay Microsoft if I wanted to install a operating system on a computer I just built or I bought a refurbished computer without a operating system.

I could use any of Linux' FREE fine distros and still be able to surf the internet, have wireless, email, do office tasks, watch video and listen to MP3's without spending more than burning a iso and 25 minutes (if that) to install. You have peace of mind that when you surf the internet you are FREE from viruses and malware and trojans.

Speaking of viruses, malware and trojans. I think Microsoft offering free anti virus and malware protection for its OS' is a long overdue and much welcomed.

Microsoft is much more open than Apple could ever dream about yet it could never hold a candle to Linux and its many thousands upon thousands free programs and important and powerful software suites like open office.

Go to distrowatch find out what the hottest Linux operating systems are. Go download a couple of fine Linux distros like Ubuntu.

Download them, the use Nero (or whatever favorite CD burning utility you like), burn the Linux operating system as a ISO using the slowest speed you can and then when you are done. Pop the CD in your computer, turn off the computer and restart booting off the CD and have the taste of freedom that thousands of new users are experiencing everyday.

Well, I've now gone from annoyance to amusement due to the fact there's been a conversation discussing whether or not I exist. I'm sure that's something not many people have experienced.

Yes, I'm a real person. No, I'm not paid or bribe by MS or anyone else to make comments on blogs.

I want to give another little bit of clarification of my job role. It starts with the word "partner." A partner is a company who sells MS products or solutions or who writes software to run on top or alongside MS software. Partners don't need to be sold MS technology - they're the ones who've already decided. In theory, I could do this job without ever seeing an end customer. I say "in theory" because partners are generally MS customers as well - they use the technology they sell. Partners don't have to be convinced of the value of MS technology by me because they wouldn't be partners if they weren't already convinced. So, I'm not a salesperson and I don't convince the partners that they should buy MS technology - I just give them more information about my speciality if they want to know more.

I haven't taken that course. If you follow the links through, it takes you to the Partner Learning Center. This is a site with resources and tools for MS partners, not MS employees. It's not a required course for Partner Technology Specialists - it's a course that's being promoted by one.

My style was not intended to encourage insults to paint other people in a bad light. My tone is just my tone. I'm not sneaky and manipulative and determined to make everyone else look bad to make myself look better - but of course you've only got my word on that.

@Jess
Does it really matter? The idea of a debate is to put points across with hopefully people doing their own research and drawing their own conclusions.
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We can all claim to be one thing and actually be another. Its something nobody can really prove.
That goes for everyone.
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I'll go back to what I said before. Since we've all heard the allegations on MS paying people to post on blogs, unfortunately there is very little trust put into any pro-MS poster. I say its a shame, because there probably are people who genuinely like MS products.
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My stance is always one of Opensource, yours is proprietary MS. We make our comments and people draw their own conclusions.
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and at the end of the day, we are only talking about software/hardware here. Its hardly the most important thing in the world is it? there are more important things in life. So what if youre labeled a shill?

@Jess
Thanks for answering my question.