Microsoft Disses Windows to Sell More Windows

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/10/1327208

Quote from the link:
"I stumbled across this fascinating Microsoft tutorial entitled "How to Justify a Desktop Upgrade." It's an attempt to coach IT professionals on how to sell Windows desktop upgrades internally. Apparently the value of Vista is not readily apparent, requiring detailed instructions on how to connive and cajole into an upgrade from XP. The most intriguing thing about the tutorial is its implicit rejection of Microsoft's older technology. Just a few years ago Microsoft was pitching the world on how secure and cool XP was. Now it's telling us largely the opposite, implying that XP is a security threat, costs too much to run, and so on. With Microsoft marketing against itself, perhaps the Mac and Linux camps can simply wait for Microsoft to self-destruct?"

Chips has been dissing Windows to sell more Windows. Of course!!!

Repugnant
Is this comment by Chips on the subject ??? No it is not just MORE anti-microsoft rhetoric, yet again.
Here try the "actual" link to the page Chips !
http://www.microsoft.com/canada/midsizebusiness/businessvalue/local/desktopupgrade.mspx

Developers asking where is MSFT Silverlight 2.0?

Why won't Microsoft satisfy their customers? MSFT settled with Eolas and released Silverlight 1.0 the very next business day. Without the Eolas video automation intellectual property, Microsoft Silverlight 1.0 would not be available today. Ask Microsoft if that's not true.

Now, the world waits for Silverlight 2.0 which requires a client-side dynamic language processing object to provide the kind of robust application capabilities Adobe Apollo users already have.

Why does Adobe have this capability and Microsoft does not?

What is there about Adobe Apollo that supercedes Microsoft's efforts and what is keeping Microsoft from bringing out a competitive value against Adobe?

And why is Microsoft going to wait to announce Silverlight 2.0 at the same date as the end of the VCSY v MSFT mediation process (March 7, 2008)?

Those are the questions to ask. It's a shame journalists and shareholders don't know enough to even ask the right questions.

Try explaining how Silverlight is going to accomplish the aims of Adobe Apollo without tripping over the following?
link at url below

Now, read this article:
link at url below

(more at url-Portuno Diamo, Microsoft board)
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_V/threadview?m=tm&bn=33693&tid=1154&mid=1154&tof=1&frt=1

For once you got me. The Morris Worm was launched on November 2, 1988 and infected both (some early versions of) unix and BSD. This was long before Dos could do the internet. Linux is not subject to this worm, and all versions of commercail unix and free BSD have been patched in newer versions than 1988.

So I was 90% correct, or 100% if you consider worms that actually can a computer. Which would still be 100% Micro$oft Windows computers at 2007.

Since chips isn't smart enough to work out he posted a response in the wrong thread, I'll post here to make it easier for him. Original thread here: http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/channel/the_problem_with_bundling.html?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535

Your link is basically saying that in 10 years, none of the Windows worms has out-ranked a Unix bug in severity despite the larger number of machines in operation.

According to your back-pedalling, you are also quite willing to post the link even though current versions of Windows are not subject to old worms.

You are 110% hypocrite.

Google to bid for 700MHz spectrum
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/11/30/Google-to-bid-for-700MHz-spectrum_1.html
"We believe it's important to put our money where our principles are," Eric Schmidt, Google's chairman and CEO, said in a statement. "Consumers deserve more competition and innovation than they have in today's wireless world. No matter which bidder ultimately prevails, the real winners of this auction are American consumers who likely will see more choices than ever before in how they access the Internet."

Consumers will be the winners in the auction, Chris Sacca, Google's head of special initiatives, wrote on the company's public policy blog.

"This is because the eventual winner of a key portion of this spectrum will be required to give its customers the right to download any application they want on their mobile device and the right to use any device they want on the network," Sacca wrote. "That's meaningful progress in our ongoing efforts to help transform the relatively closed wireless world to be more like the open realm of the Internet."

Google will bid Monday for 700 MHz Spectrum
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/01/google-bid-monday-700-mhz
Maybe the USA will finally see SIMM card slots in their handsets like in Asia and Europe. Possibly running Google's Android open source mobile operating system.

Free Press, a media reform group, cheered Google's decision to bid. Combined with Verizon Wireless' announcement this week that it would open its network to outside devices and applications, the Google move will give more choices to consumers, said Ben Scott, Free Press' public policy director. µ

Google will change this industry forever
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9827114-7.html
Now that we know the 700MHz spectrum is easily the most viable solution to getting free Wi-Fi all over the country, why wouldn't Google offer it to us for free? After all, doesn't it fit well within its strategy as a company that promises that it won't "be evil" and currently offers its solutions for free when supported by advertisements?

In fact, I would go so far as to say that Google will not only offer free Wi-Fi, you might be accessing it before you know it. And if that's true, what would that mean to your current access to the Internet? Would it mean that current ISPs may have a serious problem on their hands? You better believe it.

A free Wi-Fi solution would change the current state of this industry more than we can calculate. Instead of creating devices that have an Ethernet port, each and every product will surely offer a wireless solution. And most of the products that currently do not connect via Wi-Fi to your home network (HDTVs, for example) will probably add that functionality in no time.

Can you imagine an industry where almost every single device is created for the sole purpose of working on a Google platform? Sure, it may be difficult to fathom at this point, but did anyone actually believe most devices would be made to work with Windows?

Google is well on its way to creating a groundbreaking solution that could catapult the technology industry ahead. And while some may believe the search giant will not be able to do anything of the sort, I'm not so cynical. Judging by the company's track record and its immense success in most of its projects, I can't believe it won't find a way to revolutionize the entire industry.

a little Portuno Diamo from the Yahoo/Microsoft board
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_M/threadview?m=tm&bn=12004&tid=1321393&mid=1322123&tof=4&rt=1&frt=1&off=1

Microsoft can't deliver Silverlight 2.0 today, hawcreek aka vcsy_stock_scam. They can't deliver it today and they won't be promising anything more than a beta by March 7, 2008... the day the court appointed mediator provides his report to the court in vcsy v msft.

And MSFT is hedging its bets by saying they can't "promise" it by March. They can "plan" to show it.

Well, it's easy to see no settlement with VCSY, no Silverlight 2.0. Want to kick around parts of the patent that say that? Want to debate what parts of MSFT technology are lacking and what patent 521 can solve for MSFT?

I didn't think so because you know absolutely nothing about software. You're a construction guy. Bob the Builder trying to tell readers about software. LOL That's the funniest thing on the entire board; That a hammer swinger claims Microsoft has nothing to fear from software patents. HA HA HA HA HOOOOO

Why don't you tell the reader why the software patents have no relevance?

You are 110% hypocrite.
No, that's not possible. He's mostly water, somewhere around 80 to 90%. Then there is carbon, calcium, and other elements. Even the most hypocritical of hypocrites can only be about 0.0001% or 0.0002% hypocrite.
But judging chips (which is a dangerous thing, I know--my apologies to chips), I'd say that his hypocrite content is closer to 0.0000000000% (my hypocrite detector has no further resolution).
Yes, that famous worm wrought havoc with Unix machines. And the infamous "ping of death" was a real doozy also. But I think that chip's statement of "For once you got me." represents an admission--and correction--of error, and not hypocrisy.
*sigh* Some people's children....

Chips
What do you mean "For once you got me" ? Does that mean that you don't admit to lying on the "Skype Me" article Joe did ?? Because we all know that you did.
And one further thing Chips ....you have admitted that you were wrong on the WRONG PAGE / ARTICLE dopey !!
Try the previous article !!

Oh my, on the wrong page too? you and mike, if there are two of you, have to really nitpick on the worm thing, Ancient Unix is not Linux, and some of those worms like the blaster worm, you should know, is still in the wild, unlike the one you pointed out. You can bet there are people reinstalling NT4, 2000, and XP (without the service packs) from there original cd, and being infected with all sorts of stuff. like the blaster worm, before they can find, download and install the patch. Many will not know about the patches or the blaster worm either.

But enough dialogue with you and mike. Time to move on to another story.

It is nice to see that you Micro$ofties are at least reading my links. Perhaps, if you were not so biased, you and M$ might learn something from those. There is hope yet.

Chips
You never give up do you ?? Even when your in the wrong !
Specially by saying this "Perhaps, if you were not so biased" well, well, well ....what the hell are you ???
Your hide is made from Teflon ...nothing sticks to you does it ???
You are running around saying how secure Linux is and how insecure Windows is, you are caught out, and you still continue on as if nothing has happened.
And what do mean "Ancient Unix" your the one who keeps on saying how good Unix was, and that it was the updated into Linux, I personally see no difference in its progression, than from MS-DOS to Windows.
The way you go on sure you've been caught out, the only thing to you it doesn't mean anything at all.
You have "throwing mud" for a long long time chips, and now when you get some of it on you it doesn't matter. Why not ???

Sorry chips/marco/I-man/Ronald McDonald (are there really 4 of you?) - it's not a matter of being Microsofties, it's of having frontal lobes.

You can bet there are people reinstalling Unix from the original cd, and being infected with all sorts of stuff.

Still not brave enough to post your admission of error back on the original page?

Brian: his hypocrisy is not for the original "error" but for his arguments in trying to back-peddle.

Hey Mike,

I think the people "reinstalling UNIX from CD and being infected with all sorts of stuff" might be the same people "administering" windows boxes hence giving both a bad reputation.

Once black mark i will put towards microsoft specifically is the level of technical expertise they promote. I have completed a few MCSE's and app-specfic MCP's in my time, and have to say that they compare very badly with any other certifications out there - RHEL, CCEA, CCNP, etc...

While i'm not all anti-microsofty it seems the emphasis on their training is to have the bar as low as possible. The result is a flood of bad-but-certified admins and for that microsoft should get a kick up the arse AND a bad reputation for their products as they've caused it.

Oh and while I'm at it, Linux in the SMB market deserves it's bad reputation as your average Linux admin will as a rule of thumb do one or all the following:

.) sticky-tape his own server hardware together because why pay for an IBM server if this one does the same thing. (a chillingly similar sales argument to linux itself which sadly devaluates the quite good software underneath)

.) forgo ANY documentation efforts whatsoever

.) build lame nerdy in-jokes into their server names or other naming conventions which just screams professionalism

Oh and if you're going to slap me with the "unrelated-to-article" stick over those two posts, consider my hands extended. All i ask is for you to appreciate that i didn't once mention the term "VCSY". D'oh!

Whatever
Yes you are quite right, the other side of the arguement is allowed to say WHATEVER they want ....and yet ....when comes to our side.
Oh ! you mustn;t that it's not on the topic ... and boy I remember being told that lately ...hey "Repunant" !!
AND if Chips tells a LIE or the facts that he shoves in our faces just happen to back our side instead and are against him ... absolutely nothing is said of it ...inotherwords its alright with them, so long as he is allowed to continue his onslaught.

Thanks for the reply, my fellow aussie; although i'm not sure what side you think i'm on...

While i'm not anti-microsofty i'm certainly not a fan. I'm on the side of the IT industry, because it lies dearly to my heart and wallet.

Hi whatever

I perfectly understand your remarks. My statement was simply throwing chips' own words back at him, with MS/Unix interchanged. _Of course_ it comes down to the individual users and admins, but chips is never going to let a few facts get in the way of his incessant ranting. I'm actually wondering if he's a bot trying to pass the Turing Test, but for the meantime he just appears to be a web-crawler with a poor language generator front-end sans spelling and grammar-checker. Eliza's bastard child methinks.

I'd just like to read an intelligent discussion on here without having chips, marco and I-man farting off-topic rhetoric constantly.

Ha ha, look at the microsoftie shills try to spin what they can. I say fire em Bill, they be incompetent.

And now for something factual and different:

Apple's Mac market share rise is good for consumers

http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13506_1-9831586-17.html

Quote from the link:

"According to a recent study by research firm ChangeWave, Apple's Macintosh line of computers is well on its way to gaining a sizable portion of the computing market in the coming months.

Polling customers about their computer buying preferences over the next 90 days, ChangeWave Research found that 29 percent of respondents claimed they would be buying a Mac over that period, while 24 percent will buy HP desktops and 31 percent will buy Dell desktops."
--------------------------------------------------
While I don't own or promote Mac's, as Linux is a fine free OS, I do think the reason that Mac is coming back so strong is the failure of MS to provide any competition. As in the train wreck that is Vi$ta.

Chips (shilling for ADD medication) wrote
" chips :

And no discussion of Windows is complete without this:

Top 10 Worst Computer Worms of All Time

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Top%2010%20Worst%20Computer%20Worms%20of%20All%20Time"

which explicitly notes:
"1. Morris Worm (also known as the Great Worm)
....... The result was increased load averages on over 6,000 UNIX machines across the country which caused between $10,000,000 and $100,000,000 of damage."

----------------------
Thanks for bringing this to our attention, chips! How much were you paid to do that?

I a wrote some time ago:
How can we get to differentiate Shills from the rest(people)?
Because of the senseless desperate fight they put up when defending MS. Very similar to what any common folk could do to protect their source of feeding.

Is there a manner to differentiate a Ms fanatic from a (Ms)Shill?
Yes, generally the fanatic exaggerates (eg: Bill is a God! or something like that) while the Shill has more control over him/herself, but simply attacks everyone who says something negative about her/his Boss-Ms- (well, that is their principal function, is it not?)
And are there intelligent MS's fans?
Yes, but they are not many- you recognise them because they are close to pragmatism, they defend the good and recognise the evil (really is hard defend to MS.)
Therefore, should we censor shills? Of course not, we should only recognise them to understand them and as to not to feel irritated by their apparent nonsense (answering them when needs be) Really, if we think about it, their situation is pathetic, trying to seem more stupid than they actually are to gain a small salary or present (laptop?) and all that because they do not have enough intelligence to be productive by themselves without the need to bend over.
-----
To day it's aplicable
-----
Remember Chips:a good quote;
“Don Quixote of Mancha: It leaves dogs them bark Sancho friend, is signal that we are happening.”

Miguel de Cervantes
------
..."And thus, the objectives will be achieves at the same time: To expose MS and uncover its Shills (when they respond desperately)"

Mike,
Quote:
""1. Morris Worm (also known as the Great Worm)
....... The result was increased load averages on over 6,000 UNIX machines"
----------------------------------------------------
This worm is no longer in the wild. It was in 1988. I very much doubt if the unix or bsd systems back then were on CD at all, but were most likely floppy based. The 6000 unix machines were, I believe, government and university computers powering the early internet as servers. They were not typical home unix computers, as they were very expensive machines.

In 1988 MS did not have any software to power the internet. Not exactly sure when the first windows 1.0 came out, but it was not server software, or able to do much, let alone power the internet.

Unix is a differnet code base than Linux. Linux was made in an effort to run Unix programs. The structure is similar, but the code is completely different. Therefore, the Morris Worm would not affect Linux. Sorry to disappoint you. As far I as can research, the Morris Worm is not out in the wild anywhere, unlike the blaster worm for windows, which still is.

Now I know that Micro$ofties like to spin FUD, but perhaps a little truth telling, and sticking with the facts, might make you guys, or is it guy, more believable?

chips,

The article you linked is a bit dubious as i've seen the name ChangeWave is some truly fantasmic statements of buying intention.
However I agree with the article that an increased Macintosh marketshare is a good thing for IT overall, as balance and diversity is sorely lacking. (I did my part in the great equalising and got meself a MacBook Pro - sooo noyce! :D)

But where you seem to go off the rails, is to say that it's microsoft's fault for being too successful. As far as i can see, once windows hit it's critical mass or whatever you call it, no company had the cojones to invest years and lots of money to compete in the desktop OS market.

In fact i think the above scenario is a reasonably significant reason for the proliferation of Linux. Some dying company like Novell can pick up an entire OS (or OS company in that case), slap a logo on it and sell support for it. They don't have to create an OS from scratch to compete.

Oh and Marco,

just to make it clear, i'm not defending Microsoft. (can't bring myself to defend someone who sticks their 64-bit OS binaries in a folder called System32...clowns)

I just don't think they're some dark evil empire and linus torvalds and dick stallman have the answer to my salvation.

Quote;
whatever :

chips,

The article you linked is a bit dubious as i've seen the name ChangeWave is some truly fantasmic statements of buying intention.
However I agree with the article that an increased Macintosh marketshare is a good thing for IT overall, as balance and diversity is sorely lacking. (I did my part in the great equalising and got meself a MacBook Pro - sooo noyce! :D)

But where you seem to go off the rails, is to say that it's microsoft's fault for being too successful.
--------------------------------------------------
Not successful. Thats not the problem at all. The problem I have is the anti-competitive way and sometimes, illegal way that they have done it.

Another problem that really bugs me about Microsoft, is the viral problem. They have had a long time to fix it, and all the resources to do, but yet, they go down this very small step approach, which is clearly not working.

But whatever, you make some good points.

Competition might get MS back on track if they lose enough market share. Which I believe, they will before they can release Windows Seven.

Whatever / Mike
Have a look what Chips wrote under the "The problem with bundling" heading and see my reply, he has done to himself yet again !

Marco
I see by your comment your back on your "SHILL" bit yet again, but you stay well clear of actually saying anything regarding what Chips has said about viruses, etc. WHY NOT ??

To Marco;

I have to remember to stay on track sometimes. Now that I see that our local Shill "friends" want to talk more about Viri, perhaps I should accommodate them some more? LOL They might not like that which they start. What do you think?

so here is another link;

The Blaster Worm: Then and Now

http://csdl2.computer.org/persagen/DLAbsToc.jsp?resourcePath=/dl/mags/sp/&toc=comp/mags/sp/2005/04/j4toc.xml&DOI=10.1109/MSP.2005.106

"In August of 2003 the Blaster worm struck the Internet, infecting at least 100,000 Microsoft Windows systems and causing millions of dollars in damages. In spite of considerable cleanup efforts, an antiworm aimed at patching systems, and a widely downloaded clean-up tool from Microsoft, the worm is still very much alive."
--------------------------------------------------
And this two years after the blaster worm hit.

Chips
You are really thick ...you know idiot !
We are not going on about viruses persay what we are talking about is your arrogant attitude regarding Linux OS is secure from viruses. Which you yourself have inadvertantly shown is not the case.
Sure Windows is a magnet for viruses etc. that's why we have companies like symantec in business!!
Linux can (and will) be infected by viruses sometime or another and that is what mike and I are saying you fool !!
You keep on saying how Linux is being adopted here and there well eventually the virus writer will have Linux well and truly in their sights, unlike the occassional one at the moment. The biiger you the more likely there is going to an attack.
As you know there have been viruses in Apple and you are next.

Whatever
Glad to hear that you are a fellow aussie mate ... good on ya !
Actually I think that I am the same as you. When I first came to this site (before Vista went to RTM, and before Joe) the site was OK, then all of a sudden they started on Windows and virtually any reason (or excuse) would do, and I didn't like that, and I've been here ever since, trying to make idiots like Chips see beyond their sealot ways. Sure I stick up for Windows but only when warranted, guys like chips really erk me, you know what mean ??
And I cannot get it through his thick skull that I live in Australia and that I have not been paid to be a "shill" ! God I had to look it up on Wikipedia to find out what the hell it meant !
My background is that I am self taught (I read everything I could get my hands on) and then I taught my daughter at the tender age of 7 how to use DOS and now she is 19 and finished an advanced Diploma of IT. And actually did hear CCNA in year 11 & 12 with an average mark of 80%.
During her course she used Ubuntu and she (not me) preferred to use Windows, but they used Ubuntu (Linux) because of its UNIX roots with regards to networking.

Quote;
Neil:
"Linux can (and will) be infected by viruses sometime or another and that is what mike and I are saying you fool !!"

"Sure Windows is a magnet for viruses etc."
----------------------------------------------------
So what you are saying is that we should use the expensive Operating System that is a know magnet for viruses, rather than use the ones that are secure, right now, because they might get a least one virus in the next few years? Last count over 500,000 different types of infections with their mutations, virus, trojan, spyware, adware, malware, worms, scumware, and more types I probably forgot,

Well, fool that I am, forgive me for not buying into Microsoft's great products, and going back to a world of endless scans, updating virus programs, and defragging. Not to mention the bugs in Windows code, that make you thing you might have a virus, or the excessive license cost of an inferior product.

Whatever
Actually her average was 85% and she did wireless networking in her Diploma.

@Neil, Mike, and Others For Whom The Shoe Fits:
Is the name-calling really necessary? Nobody is perfect, nobody gets all their facts correct, and nobody has an opinion that is shared by everyone else.
A lot of what is said and counter-said is interesting, and much of it is subject to lively debate. But claims of "idiot" and "stupid" and "hypocrite" and "liar" are unprofessional, mean-spirited, and counter-productive. They do nothing at all to support your views. In fact, they tend to cast doubt on your facts and diminish your opinions.
Mark Twain once told his friend (and I quote from memory, so I likely don't have the exact wording) that "Billiards is an amusing game. If I am winning, it amuses me. And if I am losing, I curse and stomp and foam at the mouth, and that certainly must amuse you."
Well, sirs, you certainly amuse me. But you don't impress me.
I see enough value in your counterpoints and your opinions that, if said without the needless name-calling, would be most enlightening. However, until you can actually bring yourselves up to a calm and unemotional level, you will continue to remind me of not only Mark Twain's quote, but also of another joke:

A man was seated on an airplane and was amused to find a parrot in the seat next to him. He was trying to get the stewardess's attention and order a cup of coffee, she was very busy and he was having no success.
The parrot then spoke up: "Hey, ****! Get me a @!#$% cup of coffee this %^@!#$& minute! To the man's surprise, the stewardess promptly returned with a cup of coffee for the parrot.
The man then thought, if it worked for the parrot then it will work for me. So he swore loudly and demanded his own cup of coffee.
The stewardess decided she'd taken enough abuse, and two on-board marshals grabbed the man and the parrot, opened a cargo door, and tossed both of them out of the plane.
On the way down, the parrot said to the man, "You know, for someone who doesn't know how to fly, you sure have a big mouth!"

Call folks idiots and liars, and watch your opinions tossed out without care. But keep your tempers in check, let your intelligence come forth unhindered by hateful words, and your views will take on more value and warrant greater consideration.

Chips
You really are thick ...you know that don't you.
Read my whole comment you idiot !
Don't take things "out of context" !!
Do I have to forgive you for lying as well in "Skype Me" ??
Do I have to forgive you for making mistakes and then not admitting it ??
Do I have to forgive you for telling people not to use protection ??
Lastly in defence of Norton (yes Norton) I use "Internet Security" and the scan only take 45 minutes in the BACKGROUND, and with my hardware setup there is NO performance drop at all.
You are the type that wouldn't use a condom.

Brian
On this site anybody and I mean anybody who has an opposite view to Chips, Marco etc. is automatically called a "Shill". I didn't start this Chips did. As I said in a previous comment I didn't even know what the word meant.
That and his totally irritating use of "$" as a substitute for the letter "S" when writing about microsoft.
There is a big amount of difference between putting a point of view and trying very hard to denegrate something.
You tell me different!!
As far as Lying is concerned I attract your attention to one of Joe's previous articles entitled "Skype Me" where Chips did indeed lie about microsoft and NEVER apologised he just went "very quite" for a while and then back he came with his usual bluster acting as if nothing had happened !
Am I (and people like me) so in the wrong in your eyes that you cannot see what he has and is doing here, and there were a lot of other people who have since left this site who were put off by this attitude.
There are three main protagonists Chips, Marco and the King of Spam ... I-Man. But mostly Chips.
Your point is noted although !
I have ONE question will Chips take any notice ? He has just now taken me out of context, what next ?

yep folks and here we have it, from the head MS $hill himself;

Neil:
""Sure Windows is a magnet for viruses etc."

also from the other topic, we have:
Neil telling that Vista 64 bit will not play most 32 bit games. He would not anwser if Linux with Wine = ran more games than Vista 64 bit does. Its that bad in Vi$taland.

So why bother with Vista if its as bad as Micro$oft Shill has said? Why not use a superior, free,secure OS? Save the business from the cost, pain, constant upgrades cycles,and sercurity problems that Micro$oft products have?

Brian,
I agree with your points about the name calling. The use of which is counter productive as a rule. I have been guilty of that in the past, and have tried to clean up my act. With one exception, the use of the word Shill or $hill where it fits. You can read one of Marco's recent posts where he quotes Neil communicating with the Microsoft Corporation, and see that I have some reason to use that term in truth. Also, its not like calling someone a fool or an idiot.

I will endeavor to keep the flamewars down as much as possible, and not try to respond to all of Neil's posts. Sometimes, its hard not to.

Brian
Yes I did contact microsoft and what did I say ? I compalined to them about the articles written by Joe Wilcox. They had a look and agreed with me and that was the extent of my communication with microsoft, nothing more than that.
Also you have not told the truth yet again Chips in your first comment after my last one you wrote "Vi$taland".
You were called a "fool" and an "idiot" because you did not bother to read my comment fully and then tried to use my comment against me.
You must admit with virus link that you just saw the heading and didn't fully read it, and you have kept on doing this time and again, that's why.
I meant for example That windows is a virus magnet because it is the main OS in the world and what would cause the most publicity for the virus writer a lesser used OS or the main one which is Windows, that is why I said what I said.
Do you understand me now ??
I am like "whatever" I will stick up for something if I feel it is warranted there have been quite a few articles here going against microsoft that I do agree with what has been said.
But I draw the line at denegrating software just because YOU prefer your OS to Windows, so you (I feel) throw mud when it is warranted.
You seem to me to be like the Spaniards going to South America and seeing that the natives worshipped primiative gods took upon themselves to CONVERT THEM to the true religion. You are the "spaniard" trying to convert Windows users to Linux.
Have you ever thought that we are happy as we are. Please note the "Prime Directive" from Star Trek (yes I'm a trekkie).
If people want to go to Linux they will when they (not you) are reading.
So by all means point out things that are wrong with microsoft, but just leave it at that, and stop the preaching !
Fair enough ?

Infected in 20 minutes

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/19/infected_in20_minutes/

Quotes from the link;

"Of course, computers and computing system have faced disasters before too, although none to my knowledge has ever resulted in death or serious injury - and thank goodness. The Slammer worm did most of its dirty work in under ten minutes. A half an hour is all it took for Nimda to spread worldwide. The Witty worm took an almost leisurely 45 minutes - but in that time it managed to infect every possible machine in its threat portfolio. And the slowpoke of the bunch is Version 2 of the Code Red worm, which worked for almost 14 hours to infect 359,000 machines, but at one point it was taking over 2,000 new computers every minute, which ain't bad (be sure to check out the cool animations demonstrating the rapacious spread of the worm)."

Neil, congrats on your daughters CCNA score - very nice :-) Going back to an older post - Cisco courses and test i find really good and useful. They're a.) reasonably comprehensive and thus difficult (microsoft are you listening), and b.) teach stuff useful beyond just Cisco in the form of TCP/IP fundamentals that apply to anything.

To whom it may concern,
In Australia we have an expression or attitude of "fair go". In my simplistic world-view of things i'd like to think it possible for this "fair go" to apply to the world of IT as well.

Chips, while i don't agree with all your opinions, i feel your pain when dealing with microsoft-shops that evaluate software solely by brand - or even have the audacity to advocate rules-of-thumb like "sticking with microsoft standards". If these shops gave other software a go where applicable they might be very pleasantly surprised...
This is why i think any reduced Microsoft market share is a good thing for IT, because people might not blindly choose a Microsoft product but rather actually evaluate what fits their needs and budgets best; not to mention more competition, innovation, etc...

However, much the same you might be pleasantly surprised by some Microsoft software if you look past their admitedly shady business practices (how many government bodies have gone to court with them now...?), and focus on the code in the product.
At the very least, it might be worth trying to separate microsoft's company politics from microsoft products as the two things don't often relate.

To whatever: If you like Ms software it's O.K (I know,I

know, you don't like it) , but if you attack other people

simply because they don't like MS (example;they write

about) is pretty sure you are a Shill(you are not, I think

you are more pragmatic that Ms lover)
---------
To Chips: Really I don't think that we should lose our time

with them (but it's up to you, obviously) because this is

give them an importance they do not have (I know.. it's funny)

And remember:"Really this is very funny to observe their despairing efforts to silence the opinions against MS."

"When you place quotations or links that direct to any news or comments adverse to MS (without delivering names) you will be able to bring them out of the shadows, for they will give themselves away, because the principal role of a MS' mercenary is the defense of MS."

-----------

"You seem to me to be like the Spaniards going to South America and seeing that the natives worshipped primiative gods took upon themselves to CONVERT THEM to the true religion. You are the "spaniard" trying to convert Windows users to Linux."

this is Incredible!
how it is possible to write such nonsense ?(the whole thing)...Impressive!

Whatever
Thank you for that, appreciated.
As far as a "fair go" is concerned you "spot on" !
As far as micorosoft is concerned again I have to agree with you on that as well.
For once its nice to talk fairly and squarely. I am sure you are like me when you call "a spade ..a spade". Like you I have nothing against or for microsoft or any other business for that matter (in computers at least, the area that I'm is a totally different thing though).
Computers for me is only a hobby and a work tool.

Whatever
It seems I underestimated Marco his "bushfire" is still raging !
I hope that he sees the error of his ways and tones it down a bit as well, or is nothing going to happen at all ??
We will soon see won't we !
Especially when you get called a "pragmatic that Ms lover" instead of a shill, I wonder what I will be called next ?
Marco
I stated an annalogy so that I could get my point across. Read my statement to Brian again and be happy with your choice of OS, and let us be happy with ours, whether it be Apple or Windows.
If people wish to change from their current OS let it be their choice ... not yours or someone elses.

To Marco,

Quoting you here;
"To Chips: Really I don't think that we should lose our time

with them (but it's up to you, obviously) because this is

give them an importance they do not have (I know.. it's funny)"
----------------------------------------------------
Yes, the Shills or $hill and his sock puppet$ (spell spelt) are a complete waste of time, I agree. But at some point their FUD needs to be shown for what it is. One other point, Shill Neil says he talked to someone at MS, not sure, but I think it was he has been talking to MS, which would imply that it was more than once. Right after that, "the tone" changed here, did you notice?

I continue to post comments here as long as allowed to do so. And no M$ Shill will set the rules for what I can discuss.

Marco, do you notice the fear in the shills when you discuss Virus problems in Windows? Even Neil admitted that, quote Neil: "Sure Windows is a magnet for viruses etc." and the rest of his statement is "that's why we have companies like symantec in business!!" Odd don't you think that he seems to preferr Norton over OneCare, wonder what the folks at Redmond will say when they read his posts? Then there is his statement about 64 bit Vista not be able to play games. WOW

the "spaniard" trying to convert Windows users to Linux. Could be, but maybe its just a low level techie who is tired of watching and feeling bad for the customers who come in the door all the time with hosed over Windows computers. You want to tell them that life is better over there, in Linux or even Mac.

Marko, Chips;

Guys i didn't mean to typographically (??) attack you for your opinions. My only point is that if you try to promote GNU/Linux, then very well - it's a good set of software after all.
But if you then mix in the negatives of Windows, the business practices of Microsoft, the wank-factor of Apple or any other such gumpf it completely devaluates your argument to many people.

It's the same as walking into a CIO's office and recommending Linux because it's "free as in speech and free as in beer"; or recommending against Microsoft because their big meanies. It just doesn't fly, and neither should it.

IMHO, no matter what the cost of something, when selling it the price is always mentioned at the very last moment or when asked; and the ideology of it is never mentioned. First comes the very important step of listing the competitive benefits, like the support structure and ecosystem around the solution, performance, etc. I mean even if you go to RedHat's website (at least a few months ago) the first thing you get is a video touting the great freedom and liberation of it all - WTF is that??

I mean why don't people shout the scalability of being able to run the same OS (of sorts) on an embedded system as well as in Z/OS mainframe partitions from the rooftops? Or the supported server apps from big vendors like Oracle, IBM, etc. Hell, even chuck in some performance comparisons of the same app on Windows vs. Linux when talking to people that care alot about db and webserving benchmarks... Nono, the first thing you get is this "welcome to the world of unencumbered freedom where code flows as freely as speech and beer" crap.

Sorry about the long rant.

This is off the current subject but has been raised so....
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140457-c,antivirus/article.html#
And part of which says "To address the growth of multi-platform PC and Mac environments, Norton AntiVirus 11 for Mac scans for both PC and Mac vulnerabilities, viruses and macro viruses".

Part Two
Is there anti virus software for Linux ? The answer is yes and plenty of them.
http://www.kaspersky.com.au/content.aspx?pageid=151&OVRAW=Linux%20antivirus&OVKEY=linux%20anti%20virus&OVMTC=standard&OVADID=5783551041&OVKWID=41814079541
Linux is just the same as any other OS as I said before, why else would they bother making it.

Quotes from Neil;

"Linux is just the same as any other OS as I said before, why else would they bother making it."

Read your link carefully Neil, and you will find out that your Kaspersky linux server antivirus software is scanning email programs in linux for Windows type viruses and spam. As there are none for linux yet. Stop spreading FUD.

Neils other famous but true quote;

"Sure Windows is a magnet for viruses etc."

At least his last quote is correct.

To whatever :Yesterday I didn't read all your posts, now I say: To whatever: If you like Ms' software it's O.K, but if you attack other people simply because they don't like MS then it is pretty certain you are a Shill.

------------------
To Chips: a change of behaviour has attracted my attention (not Neil) of some notorious Ms "defenders" They were taking a moderate tone and incredibly sometimes mentioning some of Ms' mistakes (very softly.)
Now I understand why that has happened: everything is about confusing the people-and clearly, and that will never be achieved by speaking openly. It also confirms too that they are "working" coordinately.
----------------
About Neil: After reading his posts (yes, I was intrigued by his last post), I have got serious doubts as to whether he is paid, since who can pay someone who does such a lousy job? But the I remembered Vista (5 years, etc, etc) and thought Ms would indeed pay.

Marco,

First off, I guess we are not going to see an apology from the likes of Neil for posting his FUD about Linux antivirus programs used to clean windows email malware so as not to pass on dangerous email that will affect windows computers via email. That stuff is all windows viri, and I think its a good idea for anyone running linux that they don't forward any email to a friend with a Windows computer and find out it had a Windows virus in it.

But Neil is not concerned about the truth, or we would have seen an admission that his post was just completely wrong. Even the most hardened Windows fanboi would have admitted fault on that post. Neil is not one of those, he dosen't care, only has a job to do, spread FUD and try to delay the inevitable. Neil has lots of sock puppets. It would not surprize me if "whatever" turned out to be "computerguy," the flip side of Neil, two indentities that seem to only misspell "spelt" the same way. What are the oddds, astromonical most likely.

So here perhaps you have one shills, working fulltime, going from blog to blog, many sites, working from a playbook of user names and personalities, writing. Neil has the personality that appeals to emotion, the flip side is the younger computerguy who is highly technical, and throws in some MS neutrality to confuse, and a whole lot of technobable, when he gets lost. Usually cut and pasted from some website, I might add. Both are a complete waste of money, and M$ should fire them ASAP. And then theres Andre. LOL

The fact you pointed out that they are starting to lightly say a few mild bad things about MS is not surprizing. This trend has been going on for awhile. As its so easy to spot the ones that never say anything wrong about MS, as anyone in their right minds that has had to use windows, knows it has some serious problems. The Vista and Office articles bring out the $hills to defend the cash cows of M$ in droves. And for some strange reason (example; Neil) talk about Windows Viruses seem to bother them.

While they are a waste of time, and their objective is to sidetrack you into their line of talk, inside of talking about the cost, stablity, bugs, sercurity problems of Windows, versus Linux, the free stable, OS, without the spyware of Big Brother Billy G.

The spaniard in me, will of course continue, as I continue to see the pain of windows users everywhere in real life. They can be helped, life is far better using Linux.

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Chips
I am not like you I am not a liar Mr "Skype Me". Neither am I a shill !!
I see that your change of heart to do as Brain asked did not last very long at all.
You have already started up again using the "$" key instead of an "S".
As far as viruses are concerned I told you that I use "Norton Internet Security" and it works well.
I only comment under my own name and not under anything else. Never have never will !
I said it before and I will say it again "different horses for different courses" and stop trying to convert people to your OS of choice leave us alone.
Lastly I will say this I believe that eventually there will be No Apple, No Linux and No Windows, the opreating system of the future will be a hybrid of them all and will include "VOICE RECOGNITION" so that commands will be issued verbally and that the humble MOUSE will also disappear as well.
I really feel that this war of yours against Windows will come to nought. Windows (in its current form anyway) will be gone, and in its place a system, one system and that's it, no different types just the one.

Heck. Thats a lot of money they are making per phone. I guess with the size of Apple that they can make demands like that from the provider. If O2 would have turned down the offer then another network would have jumped in and still made a killing. I' d still prefer to see the iPhone sell at less then 100 on an 18 month contract.