Once again Joe you prove that you really don't know the reality of whats going on out there. You make it sound like every potential Windows Vista customer, whether they own a notebook and want to upgrade or are going to purchase a notebook preloaded with Windows Vista will be burnt. This is not the case, those big bang hardware you say are required out there to run Vista's visuals are already in the hands of most consumers, it doesn't even have to be a dual core setup with tonnes of RAM as you put it.

Those laptops I told you about are running Vista Home Premium in my Cisco class aren't top notch, two of them Gateway notes are using integrated graphics all support AERO Glass, 1 GB of RAM and run like a champ, I was pretty surprised by all this. You make it sound like Vista is a monster calling out 'feed me'. My brother purchased a Dell 1501 notebook in June of 2006 came with a Intel Core Duo 1.6 Ghz (dual core processors which you claim to be out of the reach of many consumers) price US $800. The only thing he needed to upgrade was the RAM from 512 to 1.2 GBs and it has all the effects running the Vista Business sku. It even had the visuals on the 512 MBs of RAM with 144 MBs memory assigned to the graphics, but was indeed slow.

All I am sayin, it does not take much to get the full experience of AERO Glass on a laptop or desktop. You need to stop creating this doom and gloom scenario because its 100% not true Joe and you know it. You make it sound as if Intel and AMD wil be producing less powerful mobile processors in the future that will only be able to run Linux and Windows XP.

If you look back to past releases of Windows, as far back as even Windows 2000, the hardware was not up to snuff to really put the OS to test, but over time, more powerful hardware came to market and the better the performance got. Now with those powerful multicore processors that have been out on the market for a good while, such systems are more than ready to run Windows Vista with all features enabled. Yes, there is indeed a concern over RAM being installed, Vista does run perfectly with 1 GB of RAM as I have seen first hand.

But there are still OEMs such as Dell, Gateway (ACER) and even HP still selling systems with 512 MBs of RAM. Looking into the future of how systems will adopt including Windows, it will be a mix of software and services, Microsoft knows this will happen, you have Windows Live and the local applications built into the OS to take advantage both of the powerful hardware and powerful broadband proliferation. Microsoft's two pronged approach is benefiting both the end users and the Company. I don't see any other Company using such a successful strategy and it definitely will only get better in the future.

So, if I were you I would do better research than say that Windows Vista will get slower on future hardware, it sounds completely pshychotic. The part about Dual Core hardware being out of the reach of average users makes it even worse. Don't let me have to repeat myself by saying you are living in an IT bubble.

I can see flash taking off on some hard drives (i.e. media drives), but until the write limitation that exists with current flash tech is removed I wouldn't particularly want to use a solid state hard drive as my system drive. With a swap file, that 100k (?) write limit can creep up awfully fast.

Vista is actually pretty versatile. If you want to run it on old hardware they offer 32 bit versions that can function just fine and if you want to go all out they offer a 64 bit version that can take advantage of pretty much any hardware out there. IMO this is one area MS did really well in making sure they met the varied markets. Linux has the same issues, if you want to run all the bells and whistles you have to have the hardware. Apple simply just doesn't give you the option of installing their OS on most hardware unfortunately.

Crap. Where to begin? Vista requires "monster graphics"? Puhlease. Aero needs a very low-end card by today's standards. In fact, to any gamer, it would be a joke. Dual core? Again, mainstream and inexpensive for most new buyers. Flash taking over from hard drives? Not anytime soon for anyone who wants more than a play computer or internet terminal. Preloaded flash computers? Hardly a new concept and fraught will all the same problems as in the past. XP's leaner than Vista? Duh. Win98 is leaner than XP. Why not bundle that? Oh right, because most want the enhanced features that come with the extra bloat. Increasing threats to MSFT's OS dominance? Yes, that's fair. But to win, those folks will have to offer a better experience. So far, they haven't. Which is why "free" linux commands single-digit desktop share. What MSFT *should* do is bundle something akin to V-lite with Vista, and allow consumers to pick and choose what modules to load. They already offer similar for enterprises. In my case, while my main machine is a core2 with 2GB of RAM and full Ultimate, I have Vista running on a P4 512MB machine using a Vlite stripped down version of Ultimate. And that was great, because my requirements for both machines differed and was able to load what was most appropriate given needs/machine resources.

Hey Joe, will Gates answer?(those fighting us VCSY Shareholders from being heard are just trying to keep everyone else in the dark, Ha!~)

Blogger presses Gates for IE8 answers

Developers chastise Microsoft for not keeping browser upgrade promises, for not supporting crucial Web standards, and for not keeping them in the loop.

They can't keep you in the loop. They can't trust you to keep a secret. So management and the lawyers keep Gates and Ozzie and you in a box on the shelf until things "blow over". I do hope they poked some holes in that box so you can get a little... uhhhh... "air".

By Gregg Keizer, Computerworld
December 07, 2007

Bill Gates was surprised to hear that Microsoft's secrecy over the next version of its browser has alienated Web developers, a Web standards advocate and blogger said Thursday.

Relations between developers and designers, and the team working on the upgrade to Internet Explorer 7 have become increasingly rocky, but developers' simmering discontent has recently boiled over. In comments attached to posts on the Microsoft blog dedicated to the browser, developers have chastised Microsoft for not following through on browser upgrade promises, for not supporting crucial Web standards, and most of all, for not keeping them in the loop.

(more at URL)
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_M/threadview?m=tm&bn=12004&tid=1321489&mid=1321489&tof=21&frt=1

Wow! The MS fanboys are out in force this afternoon!

At the end of the day - computers are tools. They either do the job for a fair price or they don't. Ideally, Vista's success (or lack there of) is dependent entirely on how well it does it's job as a tool. Whether or not the market share of previous Microsoft OSes (ie. monopoly) and the Windows developer base can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear is the only question.

Been waiting for your take on this! Thanks!!!!

"For lots of reasons—size, heat dispensation, component integration on motherboards or component costs ...." Plus one big reason -- battery life. Separate graphics cards can up power usage as much as 50 percent.

The new CPUs built using the 45nm process will further decrease laptop power requirements allowing even smaller and lighter ultra mobiles to be produced. Once these ultra mobiles hit the $300 price point, everyone will want one.

The Eee may run XP just fine, but it's still an extra-cost option--and quite a significant extra cost, considering the low price of the machine. This, ultimately, is a fact that Microsoft cannot change without jeopardizing its own profit margins.
Most of the punters buying an Eee won't know--or care--about the difference between Windows and Linux. They look at it as an appliance that they can just switch on and immediately start using the stuff that comes built-in. Given the choice between the Linux system and the range of preinstalled apps for productivity, learning and so on, versus a Windows system that costs more and actually offers less built-in, guess which one they're likely to go for? How do you think Microsoft will deal with this situation?

Despair MS fanboys, is it not?
To mikey: not completely, Ms know the power of the publicity and use a lot money in it. Also use bloggers (there are approximately 5000-according Joe- and some are shills too) for hide the truth.If you bought it you were screw and you have to use it(Ms philosophy).

"Wow! The MS fanboys are out in force this afternoon!"

Wow! The ABM morons are out in force like usual.

Solar + Tiny PC + Linux = Sweeeet
http://www.linuxscrew.com/2007/12/03/solar-tiny-pc-linux-sweeeet/
Seller announces the following product specifications (see detailed specs here):

* Processor: 200MHz x86 CPU, Memory: 128MB SDRAM, Storage: 2GB (included Compact Flash card), Power Supply (US, UK, or EU).
* 3 x USB 2.0 ports (480Mbps transfer rate), 1 x 10/100 Ethernet port, VGA port to connect LCD display (supports resolutions up to 1280x1024)
* Power consumption of 8W with CPU and SDRAM running at full speed. With external devices (USB 2.0 CD Rewriter, USB-powered hard drive) power consumption rises to 11W.
* Dimensions: 11.5cm (Width) x 11.5cm (Lenght) x 3.5cm (Height)
* Puppy Linux Operating System (version 2.14) - similar in appearance to MS Windows, stable, and pre-installed.
* Excel-compatible spreadsheet software (Gnumeric), Word-compatible word processor (Abiword)

"Wow! The ABM morons are out in force like usual."

Except this particular "ABM moron" has been a DOS/Windows developer for 16 years. ;-)

C'mon guys, just hang in there!

Microsoft is developing MinWin as we all know and that'll solve all of the problems with low-end hardware and might even put WinCE/Win Mobile out to pasture.

They will get there and they will succeed! After all they have hundreds of squabillions of dollars! So for god's sake if you're clamouring for something like an eee, just hang in there and don't buy anything yet as Microsoft will release something along with it's vast army of OEMs and partners.

Huh? What do you mean Microsoft promise-ware doesn't work as effectively as it used to? Does that mean i have to can my "you don't bet against Microsoft (+ obligatory glib smile and nod)" phrase too?

Yeah "oh come on!" hits it right on the head with an unusually large hammer. Exactly. Microsoft WILL NO DOUBT come up with something that will surpass anything out there in the market for mobile devices that far exceeds what's out there now.

Why? Because as soon, (and by the way, they realize the growing trend already) as the market picks up, MS will be all over it like a cheap suite.

So I have to agree, everyone relax -- Bill Gates and crew are already all over it.

People who have done a little research can get XP in a Windows Vista Box. Pretty easy.
a)Turn Off Volume Shadow Copy. (instant search is gone)
b)Turn Off SuperFetch (no program preloads, so much less memory requirements).
c)Turn Off Aero.. (no need for a good graphics card)

Ouala....you have Windows XP running in Vista.
Other than that, I beleive that system resources required by Vista are greatly exagurated by most reporters . I run Vista with no problems in a 3 year old PC, without turning off anything.

Oh me oh my! "The Commission's investigation is ongoing." That's good for us lil ole VCSY Shareholders, ya think?

SEC and FBI cooperate in Sting Operation.

Nice to see the two agencies working together.

They run these things for years at times and now we are
seeing the fruit of their work.

http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2007/2007-256.htm

I think we'll be hearing from VCSY in the near future in a way that shareholders would prefer as well as the company.

A milestone was reached on Dec. 5th related to the amendment in
Reg Sho which removed the Grandfather Clause (Not as in Santa).

I believe that a very broad investigation into the rampant Naked Shorting of many issues, especially in the OTC and Pink trading
venues is probably coming to a close.

There were quite a few companies seeking their NOBO lists from the DTC which lists who has open or close positions if I recall correctly.
Those companies have been silent for quite some time as well as fabled attorney John O'Quinn who successfully litigated against big Tobacco whose litigation in the NS area has gone quiet
as well.

Patrick Byrne told someone on another board that he thought that it was possible that we might see some marketplace settlement related
to the NS issue or something to that effect.

So I would be treating the silence of VCSY as an omen that will eventually allow some sun to shine when the time is ripe for the VCSY shareholders, till then us Longs can accumulate shares at under 2 cents.

As you know, many VCSY longs do believe that good things are in the works including a worthwhile material relationship with IBM that
could debut in the near future. I think the reason for the unusual silence will become clear and we will all understand when it is
revealed to echo what Ron Garner said quite awhile ago.

I have patience with reason. It really makes it easier. And with my faith in Richard Wade and Company, that we will be well rewarded
as they continue to build shareholder value.

This is a stock to surprise. Especially those who have ignored the intellectual assets of the company and the their accompanying environment that Portuno has comprehensively delineated over the the months and years. Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!

"heat dispensation" - should that not be "heat dissipation"?

"it's" means "it is"; "its" means "belonging to"

I am pretty certain that at some point of Vista's development, some smart engineer made clear that because of Vista's complexity (50 mill code lines) and other "add-ons", would bring problems. I am also convinced that some manager said to the engineer that his belief might well be true, but that the price increase needed to be justified somehow.

In the software world, one of the difficulties is that generally the new version of something, when SOLD, has to offer more "perks", both practical and visual ("eye candy"). Otherwise, why would people buy it? The old version would be enough. This would imply more lines of code, and therefore a software which is heavier and complex is developed.

Then, how the hell will companies like Ms be able to compete in the future? At this moment, "light" software which accomplishes its stated functions in a superlative form is offered for free-and this is only the beginning. Everyday, the quantity and quality of free light software increases. This is due "to services plus software".

Ms knows all this. Hence, they are starting to change their way of doing business, because they know they have lost their "momentum".

They HAD an ample margin and could have created (in Vista) an software which accomplishes the expectations created beforehand: light, good and cheap. But, betting erroneously, the end product turned out to be heavy, bad and expensive. As in any ecosystem, the space they left is being rapidly occupied. The distances have reduced enormously. Now Ms is only trying to gain time to produce THAT software-the one Vista could and should have been-and which shall be called "Windows 7". And how to stop the haemorrhage of clients? Simple: propaganda, both overt and guerrilla (shills and else.)

BUT IT'S TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.

Keith's comments about write-limits on Flash-media are absolutely spot-on, and all the "let's replace rotating media with flash" fans just haven't cottoned on to the simple fact that any system or application that writes frequently will wipe out the media VERY quickly.

This is a problem that has been around for a long time. Salesforce applications that have a read-only catalog are fine, but if you have a database doing record-level writes then you'll have to start replacing your flash _daily_.

There is a major problem at Micro$oft's thinking these days as to what kind of a product it wants to make. Therefore we ended up with Vi$ta.

Vi$ta turned up as the Operating System that Bill Gates and Hollywood most wanted, and very few users wanted.

So the questions shouldn't be, what went wrong with Vi$ta, but why. To understand that, one needs to understand the thinking of Bill Gates, and what he wanted. Bill wanted at least these 5 things in Vi$ta.

1. Control of media files and hardware, which could be played and which could not be. He wants also to control the future of media downloads as well. Therefore, you have DRM. This was the most important feature in Vi$ta, the one that slows everything down, at some base level. M$ gambled that hardware would become fast enough that running Vi$ta would not be a problem. But, its not yet.

2. XP was the best OS that M$ had produced. Its far from perfect, but to further improve on it, was too risky. Therefore, M$ needed an OS (Vi$ta) that had lots of bugs, so that people will continue to buy the next one (Seven) hoping the problems will be fixed in it. XP is seen as too good, and Vi$ta as too *insert word here*, so this did not really help Vi$ta adoption.
Linux is generally given away for free. So there is a major attempt to make it as perfect as possible. Sadly, most commerical OS can only sell the next OS if there are major reasons to buy them. Such as new hardware that will only be supported in the new OS, or new features. The features added in Vi$ta were mostly if not entirely useless, or could be found on the internet as freeware (better done too than the MS version) for XP.

3.consider this, if Micro$oft made a secure OS, that did not need extra security software, (like Linux) how would they be able to sell ONECARE?

THink of it, this is the next big market in software for M$, taking over the business of Norton and McAffee. And yes, Windows users will be paying Micro$oft every time they buy Onecare, to fix the problems that M$ created in the first place. So you see, from M$ perspectives, the security problems are not that at all, but rather just another cash cow to milk the public with.

4. This should have been the number one reason on the thinking of Bill Gates as for what he wanted in Vi$ta. Bill wanted to make even more money. He wanted to raise the price of Windows, without appearing to do so. He did this by making so many versions, and pricing them all higher, except for the base version, basic.

5. Lockin. Simple things like the new format in Office 2007 or the builtin burning tool in Vi$ta that burns cd/dvd in a format that only Vi$ta can read by default. XP is supposed to be able to read it, but cannot. These are only a couple of examples.

@Ronald Truman Says:
"heat dispensation" - should that not be "heat dissipation"?
"it's" means "it is"; "its" means "belonging to"

@Ronald Truman:
Have you every thought, maybe 'English' is not he/she's first language, hmmm. This is the World Wide Web! Ya Know ;-)
In the final analysis you got the gist of what he/she was saying.

It is always good to have an 'English' teacher around ... not to add substance but just to make corrections of posts.

PS. here is another post you can make corrections on

@Ronald Truman:
"What is correct English?"
"I can assure you that you do not know what correct English is. ..."

Gates Expresses Surprise Over IE8 Secrecy

http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/07/1859205

Quote from the link: "Bill replied: 'I'll have to ask [IE general manager] Dean [Hachamovitch] what the hell is going on, I mean, we're not, there's not like some deep secret about what we're doing with IE.'"
----------------------------------------------------
Does one hand of MS know what the other hand is doing?

Joe,
your article, "Microsoft's Big Problem in a Small Box" shows that you can still have insightful thought, that is worth reading. This is not the type of drivel one would expect from the other site that the former writer of this post went too, but rather a well thought out post. Thank you.

You have seen the problem for Microsoft on the low end of the market. These "ultralights" will be the first causality to Linux. Followed by other low end machines, mostly the $500 and lower laptop market.

Microsoft's problem with these machines is simple, they cannot compete with free, and they cannot make Vista run on low end machines in this range. Even XP is not as well suited to these machines as say Linux or BSD is.

The cost of an XP licence is too much. So a modified XP system, will probably be crippled in some way, like the crippleware of "STARTER Edition XP." Selling "Starter Edition XP" for $3 in the USA on low end machines, also competes with MS products on the other end, and therefore loses MS more revenue.

So therefore, there is only one alternative to this problem. An adware embedded XP will be made for these ultralights, with many services stripped out, so as to run faster. Works 9 with adware will come preinstalled (adware version) with adware XP. In this way, MS can offer their product for free. It will of course, tie in competely with Windows Live/MSN for further advertising bucks. No other solution can work for MS as I see it. And even this one, is not a solution that many people will want.

Chip, it's all about VCSY's patents whether you believe it or not. For 8 years Microsoft has been trying to drive VCSY out of business so they can openly use VCSY's 521 and 744 patents, but VCSY's CEO Richard Wade was always steps ahead of these Microsoft crooks! They can't keep very many in the loop because they can't trust them to keep a secret. So management and the lawyers keep Gates and Ozzie and everyone else that they can in a box on the shelf until things "blow over". I do hope they poked some holes in that box so you can get a little... uhhhh... "air".

So VCSY is now suing Microsoft(court date March 9,2008)

And the judge already awarded them a "Direct Verdict" against CDC/Ross just 2 days before VCSY filed their lawsuit against Microsoft. (No coincidence there!)

It's not hard to follow if you don't let the paid shills confuse you. Many of Microsoft's competitors are announcing new developments that use the two VCY patents whether Microsoft settles with VCSY or not. The longer it takes Microsoft to settle with VCSY, the further behind their competitors Microsoft will fall. Microsoft's market share will just keeps shrinking, keep your eye on it! GLTY

Microsoft to Curb Piracy in Vista Update

http://www.tmcnet.com/unified-communications/articles/16135-microsoft-curb-piracy-vista-update.htm

Quote: "
According to an Associated Press report, Microsoft loses billions of dollars to software piracy each year, and the Business Software Alliance says about 35 percent of the world’s consumer software is pirated. Given that Microsoft makes the bulk of the software for operating systems globally, it stands to lose a large share of its potential revenue because of this. Thus, it is planning to introduce new features into Windows Vista Service Pack 1, the first major update to the operating system, which is due out in the first quarter of 2008."
--------------------------------------------------
And there you have it folks, some more new WGA goodies to be added to Vi$ta SP1 when it comes out. Ha ha

Microsoft tries to fit XP onto OLPC

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/06/microsoft-tries-fit-xp-onto

Quote from the link: "A REPORT SAID that Microsoft will target the second half of next year for the release of a version of Windows XP that will run on One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) computers"
-----------------------------------------------------
Thats right folks, the second half of next year, that past June 2008, the cutoff date for selling preinstalls of XP by OEM'S. Microsoft Vista has no chance of competing on the low cost machines, so XP's life must continue.

More on Microsoft's Effort to Put XP on XO

http://www.osnews.com/story.php/19015/More-on-Microsofts-Effort-to-Put-XP-on-XO

Quote: "Microsoft has devoted about 40 employees and contractors to work on its effort. However, there are plenty of technical hurdles, he said. One of the biggest is the fact that the XO has no hard drive and only 1GB of built-in memory. The company concluded it needed at least 2GB of memory just for Windows and Office, so it convinced the OLPC folks to include an SD slot on the laptop's motherboard."
---------------------------------------------------
Another slot, another 1 gig of memory, an XP Licence, what does that cost over the linux version?

@whom_it_may_concern

**These are my opinions only and in no way are they meant to offend anyone. If for any reason you feel the need to contact me in any way regarding these posts, especially for inappropriate wording or a perceived derogatory statement, please feel free to contact me. I am all over the Internet and you can find me there.**

Have a nice day.

layta...

Linux is about to take over the low end of PCs

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2414535067.html

Quotes from the link:

"Today, no one can argue with a straight face that people can't get their work done on Linux-powered PCs. Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, MEPIS, OpenSUSE, Xandros, Linspire Mint, the list goes on and on of desktop Linuxes that PC owner can use without knowing a thing about Linux's technical side. People can argue that Vista or Mac OS X is better, but when Michael Dell runs Ubuntu Linux on one of his own home systems, it can't be said that Linux isn't a real choice for anyone's desktop. Not long after OLPC was announced, Intel and other companies came up with their own take on an inexpensive PC: the Classmate PC. By 2007, it had become clear that you could build a laptop that was good enough to run desktop Linux for about $200.

That gave other hardware vendors an idea. If you could build a no-frills PCs that ran Linux, why not make sub-$500 computers with a bit more power and sell them to consumers? That's exactly what Asus did with its Xandros Linux-powered ASUS Eee UMPC (Ultra Mobile PC), which lists for about $400. At about the same time, Everex introduced its gOS TC2502 gPC. Available first only from Wal-Mart, these $199 desktop systems are also now also available from ZaReason, an open-source VAR.

And how are these sub $500 computers and laptops doing? Everex is building them as fast as it can and has announced that its forthcoming laptop version, the CloudBook, has already been picked up by a major U.S. reseller. At the same time, according to an unconfirmed report, ASUS is planning on selling 3.8 million Eees in its next fiscal year."
--------------------------------------------------
And Microsoft still has to compete with Linux on middle and high ends, as well as Mac OSX on the high end. Sell M$.

could be.

By: 4sirius2
08 Dec 2007, 02:16 PM EST
Msg. 205184 of 205194
(This msg. is a reply to 205181 by LV_GaryD.)
Jump to msg. #
Couldn't the silence of revenues from V have to do with a sting
operation into manipulation of the stock?

The rise to $6 dollars looked like a pump in early 2000 when
that was the name of the game and the dump followed along
with bashers who stayed on for all these years.

Recy's posts were deleted on the SUGG board when he ran into
Portuno there and Due Dillinger mentioned that he knew that
V was being investigated. Even DC Steve recently said that
Due Dilliger is someone to be reckoned with. Due Dillinger
was posting on the CESY board with thousands of posts. CESY
insiders were listed as insiders in V some time ago, and may
still be for all I know. CESY made set-top boxes back then.

I like knowing that the FBI got involved with the SEC, indicating
that they figured there is a lot of criminal activity going on
in penny land.

The Grandfather Clause of Reg Sho was amended so that fail to
deliver stock was no longer permissible as of this week, Dec 5th.
So I wonder if we might be at the end of the round up of a market
wide investigation.

(Voluntary Disclosure: Position- Long; ST Rating- Strong Buy; LT Rating- Strong

mark Says :
"Wow! The MS fanboys are out in force this afternoon!"
Wow! The ABM morons are out in force like usual."

@ mark :
"Take it as a given that Microsoft has an overwhelming footprint in the IT marketplace, that its new licensing and pricing schemes are frightening if not painful, ..."
...
"...the plausibility of an ABM movement based on this question:
"Can users assemble a reasonable yet fully functional PC desktop environment without including Microsoft components?"

Because the short answer to the question is: "Yes, but that depends on what you mean by 'reasonable,'" the initial question must be deconstructed further as follows:

* What alternative PC operating systems are available?
* What Web browser alternatives work with those operating systems?
* What about productivity suites?
* Are part measures possible? (That is, can you access Microsoft products from non-Microsoft operating systems? If so, how? What about vice-versa? What about hybrid solutions?)

As it turns out, while there may be some argument about what's reasonable when it comes to joining the ABM movement... ..."

reference :ABM :http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=25282&rl=1

mark Says :
"Wow! The MS fanboys are out in force this afternoon!"
Wow! The ABM morons are out in force like usual."

@ mark :
"Take it as a given that Microsoft has an overwhelming footprint in the IT marketplace, that its new licensing and pricing schemes are frightening if not painful, ..."
...
"...the plausibility of an ABM movement based on this question:
"Can users assemble a reasonable yet fully functional PC desktop environment without including Microsoft components?"

Because the short answer to the question is: "Yes, but that depends on what you mean by 'reasonable,'" the initial question must be deconstructed further as follows:

* What alternative PC operating systems are available?
* What Web browser alternatives work with those operating systems?
* What about productivity suites?
* Are part measures possible? (That is, can you access Microsoft products from non-Microsoft operating systems? If so, how? What about vice-versa? What about hybrid solutions?)

As it turns out, while there may be some argument about what's reasonable when it comes to joining the ABM movement... ..."

Those of you who think Microsoft can afford to fight VCSY while bull$#!@ing the industry, already have a whole lot of explaining to do and it's plenty early in the show.

"In January, I posted the question: ?Where are the killer Vista apps?? One year after the Vista launch, I am wondering again: Where are they? Anyone know of any new applications coming that will make Vista more compelling to consumers and/or businesses?"

Somebody is going to have to start answering some questions and marketing isn't going to be able to give those answers.

Engineering? I doubt it, unless Microsoft engineering is the most incompetent engineering faculty in the world.

Management? Did you hear the ring around the bull$#!@ Ballmer and Gates gave that poor sap at the shareholder meeting about why insiders have been selling so heavily? You're going to rely on an answer from management?

Legal? Yep. That's where you need to address your inquiries. Anybody know a Microsoft lawyer that can be believable?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1019
December 6th, 2007
One year later: Where are the killer Vista apps?
Posted by Mary Jo Foley @ 7:51 am

At the Consumer Electronics Show last January, Microsoft and Yahoo made a big deal out of a Vista-optimized version of Yahoo Messenger that was supposedly one of many compelling Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) apps in the pipeline.

On December 6, one year later, Yahoo announced a pre-beta of its Vista instant-messaging app. And still no word on what took so long or when Yahoo will get the final version out there.

What gives? Aren?t applications supposedly what sell an operating system? If so, where are the must-have Vista apps built to take advantage of the Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) graphics, the Windows Communication Foundation WCF) communications and Windows Workflow (WF) underpinnings of Vista?

In January, I posted the question: ?Where are the killer Vista apps?? One year after the Vista launch, I am wondering again: Where are they? Anyone know of any new applications coming that will make Vista more compelling to consumers and/or businesses?

(more at URL)

----------

Douglas S. Taylor Says :
"Bill Gates and crew are already all over it."

@Douglas S. Taylor :
[Quote from above]
"...Bill and crew have snookered the American legal system into giving Microsoft exactly what it wants:"
...
"Microsoft doth protest too much regarding this plan: please, please, please don't break us up into two companies. Why, That Would Be the Very Worst Thing You Could Do To Us, Bill and crew proclaim. ..."

@Douglas S. Taylor :
As history shows, they stay all over it.

umm.. just in case it was unclear; my point is that those empty promises of yesteryear don't work so good any more...

As an ex-microsoft advocate who worked in IT the last 8 years i've been soooo painfully burnt by empty promises and place-holder product versions, which at the time i took as face value and ended up with egg on my face in front of clients.

Hence i've spent the last year exploring the IT world outside of "standard microsoft environments" and to my surprise the quality of competitors in many areas is very strong, which pleases me greatly because after those slaps in the face anything in which microsoft loses absolutely makes my day.

As Vista Problems Continue, MS MVP Moves Back to XP

http://www.schestowitz.com/UseNet/2007/March_2007_3/msg00252.html

Quote from the link:
" Vista completely blew up on me last week, and it was the latest frustration in a string of problems I?ve had. I was using my laptop fine at home one morning, and when I packed up to go to work, I actually shut down rather than hibernated (which is what I usually do). When I started up after getting to work, I had a black background and all my applications treated themselves as new installs."

Hi Joe,

The move to Solid State Drives will help Vista not hurt it. In reality Vista plus Office 2007 needs between 10G and 20G. SSD already are 64 GB in size and rapidly falling in price.

Next year 64 GB SSD will fall rapidly in price and easily be enough for Vista (32 GB is probably enough).

If people are upset about Vista being "bigger" and thus taking longer than XP to boot or load office 2007 - SSD will really help here and make the move to Vista much better.

I think SSD will really help Vista in 2008.

Once again, Joe is looking at the big picture. For quite some time now, Microsoft can't compete in new areas of its "traditional" computer business. Vista and MS-OOXML were a ham-handed two-fisted flop that failed with consumers, with OEMs, and at ISO. The best Microsoft fanboys like Ed Bott and others can do is cry wolf over Vista SP1 and how the "next" service pack will make everything better. Too late: the world has moved on... to GNU/Linux and Apple, and they ain't coming back.

You guys like to trash Joe, but going over his columns over the past year, he's been right almost every time. Why? Because he looks at the larger picture and can see further down the road than other writers. Go back and read his columns during the Fall of of 2006 on Vista before it hit RTM if you don't believe me.

Vista turns one and businesses are still dragging their feet

http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/11/30/Vista-turns-one_1.html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/11/30/Vista-turns-one_1.html

Quote from the link:
"According to another estimate of Vista's uptake, a Forrester survey of 565 North American and European PC decision-makers, after six to eight months only 2 percent of corporate PCs were running Vista.

By the end of this year, only 7 percent of respondents plan to even start deploying Vista at all, wrote Forrester analyst Ben Gray in that report.

"I'll be honest, we haven't moved a lot of users," said Lee Nicholls, global solutions director for Getronics. While the Microsoft systems integrator has the conversion of 200,000 Windows corporate users in its current pipeline, it has so far actually moved only about 14,000 Windows users to Vista, Nicholls said."
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This is the other dropping shoe, in the move away from Micro$oft Windows. As Joe posted in another article, 44% of businesses intend to move to NON-Microsoft Operating Systems, mostly Linux, and some to Mac. And the other shoe, is of course, what this article is all about, low end hardware, specifically sub $500 laptops, that run Linux really well, and Vi$ta, either not at all, or very badly.

Also take into account that Micro$oft has lost about 3% of the desktop market since the advent of Vista, and perhaps you can see the MS Train Wreck happening. Also, the fact that Micro$oft cannot lay XP to rest, but will need some kind of XP special versions at least, until the release of Windows Seven. This alone should spell failure for Vista as an Operating System.

Zaine
You can always tell when a Linux user passes a verdict on Windows, and you were straight out of the book mate. Even though you did try and hide it by putting in Apple (which is more than double your user base by the way).
Oh and by the way Joe was not at "Microsoft Watch" before Vista went RTM, he came in later than that. Don't tell fibs (Lies) !!!
Mind you what did you expect when he calls it GNU/Linux and not just "Linux" like everyone else does.

Neil.

Why not stay on topic and actually have something to say about the topic? Instead, when I read your comments, they are always troll-like in that you are always tearing down others. Always you use some generalized response, without and facts or links to back up your claims, which are almost always false. Your lack of knowledge on operating systems is only exceeded by your rudeness. I do not intend to be mean spirited here, as I don't know how to say that nicely, but I think you could do better and actually add something to the discussion sometimes, but don't.

Most of us are computer users first, not so much Windows, Linux, Mac users. We just want our computers to work right. Sadly, MS has gone off course, perhaps some people pointing that out to them would help MS? Unless people like you and others that work for MS cannot stand one once of criticism.

Repugnant
You are the one who is calling people names around here mate !
"troll-like" ... I am not !
"I do not be mean spirited here" ... want a bet, it sure seems like it to me mate !
"Most of us are computer users first, not so much Windows, Linux, Mac users" ... from most of your comment it doesn't seem that way to me, it seems more like Linux users first.
" Why not stay on topic and actually have something to say about the topic?" .... I never see you say that to either Chips or Marco ! How come ?? Could it be that you wouldn't criticise another Linux user ?? If I am wrong, please enlighten us !!!!

Forget the Linux Desktop, it's the Linux Laptop that matters!

http://sourcesmouth.co.uk/blog/Forget-the-Linux-Desktop-it-s-the-Linux-Laptop-that-matters.html

Quotes from the link:
"As hardware costs have fallen Microsoft customers have been paying ever greater percentages of the total device cost to Microsoft. Though it seems with the release of the EEE PC we have reached the threshhold where manufacturers are beginning to produce devices so cheap that the cost of Windows is by far the most expensive part of the device.

Even with the Eee discount persuading some users not to leave Windows behind, I expect the Eeepc and other devices of a similar form factor and cost to significantly further free software adoption particularly on the laptop."

First there was the survey that said 44% of businesses planned to go to non-MS operating systems, mostly Linux and some Mac systems. And now we see Linux coming out on low end computers where MS may not be able to compete. Add this in with the appoximate loss of 3% of the desktop OS market since the advent of Vista, and you have perhaps one of these;

1. the train wreck that is Vi$ta
2. the start of the long slide downhill for MS
3. the tipping point
4. the year of desktop linux

Chips
Thank you very much for the Linux propaganda. I couldn't help but notice that on your second comment there was no link to "back up" your propaganda. I therefore that it that the second one is a personal statement ... which sounds about right !
Please be sure to let us know when the usage percentage gets anywhere near double figures won't you. (cough cough) LORL !!!!

Operating System Of The Future (Vista)
Performing my typical workflow (i.e. using my typical software) Vista provides noticeably lower performance than does XP. My issue is not that Vista just requires faster hardware (because most every new Microsoft OS has required faster hardware). My issue is that Vista requires faster hardware than is reasonably available. Then, pile on top of that... (Pingback)

http://dataland.wordpress.com/2007/11/28/operating-system-of-the-future-vista/

Repugnant
Also I forget to mention ...you say " Why not stay on topic and actually have something to say about the topic?"
Joe has worded the subject quite well in actual fact so that anyone with a gripe can have a go at microsoft (yet again), so really the subject is any gripe that a person may have, and so of course all the very "Tired" anti microsoft rhetoric comes out, and from the same old Linux protagonists ....Chips (of course), Marco and our favourite spammer for "VCSY" (whatever that is) ,and also well known hater of microsoft ... I-Man.
In Australia we would call Joe's Heading an excuse for a "bitching session" !!

Apple's Mac market share rise is good for consumers

http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13506_1-9831586-17.html

Quote from the link:

"According to a recent study by research firm ChangeWave, Apple's Macintosh line of computers is well on its way to gaining a sizable portion of the computing market in the coming months.

Polling customers about their computer buying preferences over the next 90 days, ChangeWave Research found that 29 percent of respondents claimed they would be buying a Mac over that period, while 24 percent will buy HP desktops and 31 percent will buy Dell desktops."
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While I don't own or promote Mac's, as Linux is a fine free OS, I do think the reason that Mac is coming back so strong is the failure of MS to provide any competition. As in the train wreck that is Vi$ta.

Everex prepping 'Eee PC-killer' ultra-mobile?

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/12/10/everek.cloudbook.leak/

Quotes from the link:

"Budget PC maker Everex hopes to do with ultra-mobile PCs what it did with the gPC desktop, says a leak from the company. To be called the Cloudbook, it will target the recently launched ASUS Eee PC with a similar 7-inch screen and the use of its in-house gOS Linux software in place of a costlier and more demanding copy of Windows; a 1.3-megapixel webcam is also expected to be part of the design."
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Another OEM (Everex) to make a linux laptop. There is definitely a trend here.

I use a Mac for 90% of my work. It is fine, speedy, pretty trouble free.
I use a Dell with Vista for the other 10%. Wanting to knee-cap the perpetrators of the new OS from Gates might express my displeasure.

I use a Mac for 90% of my work. It is fine, speedy, pretty trouble free.
I use a Dell with Vista for the other 10%. Wanting to knee-cap the perpetrators of the new OS from Gates might express my displeasure.

Neil: It is not just Joe the only one who calls Gnu/Linux distros by their right name: GNU/LINUX (as Linux is just the kernel).
But I don't blame you for not liking the Gnu philosophy or not wanting people to know about the freedom they acquire when they run Gnu/Linux or any other FREE (as in freedom, not cost) software.