We seem to be getting close. With iPhone and Android running proper full WebKit based browsers, we are really seeing the elimination of specialty cell phone applications like the Blackberry Facebook thingy (which is such a limited subset). I think once you can browse the web in a similar way to how you can do it with a laptop, then we are there. Just need to eliminate specialty mobile sites and mobile apps and just have web site designers make sure their sites are usable at lower resolutions.

I agree with the 2020 vision. I use a Motorola C350 World as a GPRS modem to connect my system to the Internet. Its slow and unreliable. Not until the ubiquity of 3G comes into play Joe will I see your 2010 wishful thinking become a reality.

From my various travels, I find its just North America that has poor cellular data rates. Most of the rest of the world (including most of the 3rd world) have good cellular data speed and access. In India cell phone subscriptions only cost $0.50 /month. I visited a game park in South Africa and could browse the internet while camped in a tent in the middle of the savanah. Outside of NA, many people's only access to the internet is through a cell phone modem anyway. So might as well eliminate the aircard and laptop from the equation and just have one useful device. I think this is happening quickly now as Joe says.

The mobile internet is "NOW" more than you know Joe!

On January 16, 2007 Verizon released a very very important press release touting Now Solutions SAAS.
Here is the link to the press release which strangely enough did not mention VCSY, the parent company of Now Solutions.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-16-2007/0004506332&EDATE=

Here are only three of many things we know:

1. Verizon thought highly enough of VCSy to call attention to it back when Microsoft 'didn't do SaaS'. I submit they STILL can't do SaaS legally.

2. IBM thought highly enough of VCSY to call attention to it back when .Net was being put together. Back when XML Enabler Agent disappeared and Hailstorm melted.

3. Microsoft thought highly enough of SiteFlash to steal it. Back when it all first started, I would bet.

NOW Solutions and Verizon are more tight than the average Joe will know because it was Verizon, not NOW Solutions, touting the SaaS installation. That's significant, and yet, easily overlooked.

When you look at the past technology speak in XML and find out the present is best embodied by the past technology ideas, you realise THAT is why IBM awarded Emily and why Microsoft finds it necessary to steal SiteFlash.

When you know VCSY technology enabled VCSY to go .net SaaS before even Microsoft and that later, Microsoft caved and said they could if they wanted to... and now they want to if they have to... that says something. It's easy to miss the markers that lay out what's buried under the snow.

Did I mention that Microsoft settled with VCSY the day before the Markman Hearing and just 15 months after the infringement lawsuit was announced in a press release. Hmmmmmmm are people paid to be blind? LOL!~

Merry XMas and Happy New Year to Joe, I-Man, Andre, Goblin, KitKat and all the other regulars here at MS-Watch.

@Smist08
Cheers bud, same to you and for everyone:
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I hope Santa (or in a few peoples case Ballmer) brings you everything you want for Xmas.
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Me? Im hoping for a new set of golf clubs from the wife. Keep your fingers crossed for me.....

Joe,

Isn't WM8 supposed to be based on this Midori O/S that's derived from that Singularity project? My expectations are that M$ will ship WM7 before the end of 3rd Qtr '09. After that, I would give M$ about 18 months to ship WM8 at which point they will have a truly ground up replacement for WM ready for the demands PEW is talking about but a whole lot sooner.

@Goblin
Got a set of Taylor Made for sell
Merry Christmas everyone and happy year
I still think and know MS Stinks, to many sticks in the fire. Oh well carry on

Just a comment:

"This transition is hugely important to Microsoft, which is why I go on and on about the problems with Windows Mobile. Microsoft dominates the computing platform of the past but has nary a foothold for the future. Even if you don't believe my prediction, IDC's smartphone growth numbers are cause enough for alarm. That's Windows Mobile's category, where Microsoft should be leading rather than chasing after Apple or Google."

Umm... I don't see it as a bad thing that Microsoft can't get its head around smart phones. I still hasn't gotten its head around the internet either, and look how well that turned out. Just because Microsoft sunk much of the PC industry into a stagnant, backwater state doesn't mean it should do so with phones as well. Apple and Google seem to have about the right idea. Let's leave innovation to the companies that still innovate. ;)

Quote Highwaystar "I still think and know MS Stinks, to many sticks in the fire. Oh well carry on "
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No. I certainly dont, and I believe alot of others dont aswell.
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I have nothing against MS. I have a problem with certain proven badly performing MS products AND the alleged business practices of MS.
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Lets see Windows 7 NOT be a Vista SP3. Lets see Windows 7 represent a stable, reliable and compact system that is good value for money. If this happens you will find I will champion Windows 7 and have no problem at all doing it.
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"Freedom of choice, freedom to make an informed choice."
www.distrowatch.com

Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year.

Smartphones are taking off because the other traditional phones are being made really cheap and nasty and you dont want to go there.

I see many people with smart phones who dont use the features or complain they cant use the features because of the small caps on data, expensive extra costs on features and so on. Mobile companies are their own worst enemy.

One day this society we have will move on to a future where there is no scarcity and there is no exclusion on any basis. Money will have no value and people will get along. Then we can postulate on the future, when its here.

Again Merry Christmas to all and see you all during 2009.

"Freedom of choice, freedom to make an informed choice."

Ah! So what you really want is for Windows to be free like Linux. As for its instability, that is entirely an load of BS. Vista has been rock solid stability wise since the day it was released. While it did slow down a little since XP and there was the whole Intel GMA fiasco, Vista is a lot better than you and all the naysayers would lead everyone to believe. If it's not, you need to stop making cart blanch statements and give explicit, not general, examples of what you feel Vista's shortcomings are. If not, you're just another hyperbole Mac vs. PC infomercial that really is doing nothing more than spreading FUD.

Please dont use that name, it confuses.

Right lets quote you "Ah! So what you really want is for Windows to be free like Linux. As for its instability, that is entirely an load of BS."
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Er, no. Please read what I typed, if you cant understand, dont respond, lest you make yourself look silly.
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No. Im not saying Windows should be free. READ MY COMMENT. Its freedom of choice I want. Thats means people can choose if they want proprietary or open source. If Windows 7 is great then it can be judged on its merits and its value compared to a free Linux. I said before, I have no problem with proprietary software (I also said before that even IF Vista was free it still wouldnt be going near my system)
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IMO If Vista had delivered what it had promised I would have considered it value for money. However it didnt so thats a moot point.
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You said "Vista has been rock solid stability wise since the day it was released."
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And that comment has been already said (word perfect) by one of our shillers here. Ill have to check back and then I can see which is your other posting handle here. Not very honest is it? If the only way you can post your message is to either a/have multiple names or b/ copy what someone else says.
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Right.
After years of reports/praise/feedback from users of XP, are you saying the Micrsoft took all this on board and released Vista? Are you saying Vista represents the "best of XP"?
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Why dont YOU answer the question then?
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Since you either seem to be living in an MS bubble or choose to ignore the thousands of forums/sites all with Vista complaints (including the personal blog of our pro-MS Andre Da Costa) Are you really saying you havent looked back even on this site to see the numerous issues that Vista has? (and the bad feeling of people lumbered with it)
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If you want to argue the point, Ill be quite happy to list the flaws, again. But you already know them dont you? Certainly the people reading here do, some of them have been burned by Vista themselves, thats why they use Linux.

and I wanted to respond to this separately:
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Quote "While it did slow down a little since XP and there was the whole Intel GMA fiasco, Vista is a lot better than you and all the naysayers would lead everyone to believe."
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Speaking as a software developer who DOES use Vista at work (infact the laptop I was given by my firm had Vista on it, until I removed it.)
I can say that IMO from developing for and using on a daily basis Vista is inferior to the Linux distro I am running.
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I do not generalize and can list specific issues, although they are repeated so often on this site do I really need to? If I was to post specifics everytime my posts would be 4 times larger than they already are.
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I laughed when you said about Windows being free, because for me (with my work supplied machines) it has been. I still choose not to use it.
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As I say before, and I say again. If people want to pay to use proprietary thats fine. I have in the past (Borlands Delphi springs to mind) The Windows/Linux debate isnt one about which is cheaper, to me its which one is better and more functional. Even if Linux was a proprietary platform, Id consider it far better than a Windows one anyway, because for me, it met my expectations and did not let me down.
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Anyway I digress, will you answer my question above?

Goblin a couple points.

You're right. Vista is nowhere near as bad as the hype. My network is 500 workstation strong. All running vista enterprise. I have a few laptops running Vista ultimate. And 3 of my 6 home PC's run vista. XP, OSX, and Suse finish out the last 3. Oh yeah... a netbook with linux pre-loaded.

My home and work computers have been rock solid with vista. On the other hand I know people who suffered horribly trying to get vista to work stably.

Microsoft bombed on this one. Too many versions, slow to no performance on older systems, and runs like a dog on netbooks. Poor resource management on lower end systems.

They got a lot of things right too though. Improved management through group policies. Bitlocker, Improved media center. And the interface generally looks and feels better than XP. That being said there are people who're going to hate on Microsoft no matter what. I'll just continue to enjoy my toys no matter who makes them.

Qoute Ghostmike "You're right. Vista is nowhere near as bad as the hype."
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I never said that. The user @Goblin is not the same person as me (and you know that since @goblin is you)
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Very good Ghostmike, you repeated yourself again when you said "My home and work computers have been rock solid with vista." so I now believe you to be the same person as the "@goblin"
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Very good shilling way to try to fudge the facts, and the message being put across that people have an alternative to Microsoft products.
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How about you answer my question ghostmike, @goblin or whoever else you are going to claim to be.
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Joe, would you be able to take a look at the IP's of both "@goblin" and "Ghostmike", chances are a shiller wont use a proxy as they will be some paid unfortunate who has little understanding of IT and who has a PR sheet to copy and paste from.
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Maybe Joe, this is one of the reasons why we should all have to register before we can post?
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and now back to Ghostmike, you really are promoting a good light here. This has, IMO to be the best example of the "underhanded" tactics we've read about.
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I do have one thing to thank you for and I will be directing people to this thread. If they were any doubters that MS/Novell go hand in hand, with your "posting" here and your mentioning of SUSE for me says it all.
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It also backs up what Roy from Boycott Novell has been saying all this time.
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Thanks Ghostmike the person who uses "Linux" but only a MS approved one. Novell "The official bed partner to Microsoft"
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So Ghostmike, I repeat:
If after years of users giving feedback/praise/comments about XP, are you saying Microsoft took all that on board and released Vista? Are you saying Vista represents "the best of XP"?
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I look forward to the answer.

Nope, I have no interest in having a miniscule mobile phone screen be my primary view of the internet. That's not progress - that's a giant step backwards.

Jeez gobby paranoid much? I'm not @whoever. In fact that confused the hell out of me. And by the way I started using Suse long before Novell hijacked it. It works on my machines and it's still free. I see no reason to abandon it because Novell hoped into bed with Microsoft. That's your hangup.

You're all about alternatives... as long as it's an alternative you approve of. Right?

Quote Ghostmike "Jeez gobby paranoid much? I'm not @whoever. In fact that confused the hell out of me. And by the way I started using Suse long before Novell hijacked it. It works on my machines and it's still free. I see no reason to abandon it because Novell hoped into bed with Microsoft. That's your hangup.

You're all about alternatives... as long as it's an alternative you approve of. Right?
"
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Er, Mikey. Your mistake was to repeat yourself between the two messages, thats what gave you away.
Anyway, enough of this tot. "Gobby paranoid" Like it! Id add that to the list of insults that have been thrown at me. It also tells me that you are from the UK, since gobby is a term here.
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Right then Mike "I love MS, including its authorised version of Linux" (and btw I said nothing about not using it, I merely commented that to me it confirms that MS is happy if people use SUSE.) So Mike, third time now, how about answering the question I asked above, and then letting this thread get back on topic?
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And please Mike, in future if you are going to try to pass yourself off as two different people, at least change your typing style.

and for the record MikeSUSE, people ARE free to use what they want, thats why I find your post so interesting. In the spirit of informing people what and who from is on their machines, posts like yours always help. Theres other clues out there, like the alleged hiring of .net coders by Novell and numerous other little signs.
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If people want to use SUSE, or XP, or Vista :) then thats their choice, at least they know of the alternatives and at least they understand who is behind the software they are using.
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BTW, for your information, comparing SUSE to other distros (as per numerous reviews), its one of the slower performers. That should have been proof enough IMO that MS has a hand in it. For most people making the move to Linux is about breaking away from MS as much as it is wanting a functional and reliable OS. Should people rush to use a distro that MS has connections with? Thats their choice, but I suggest that had Novell not signed the deal with MS, it probably would be in the same position as Canonical is now.
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I'll give you a tip Ghostmike which has been used in the past by other posters with a motive other than "spirit of debate".
Tell people you use Gentoo and promote that distro. That way if people are considering making the move to Linux, they may follow your advice, use Gentoo and believe that all distros are as advanced as that one. They'll come running back to Microsoft in a second.
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I hope my advice helps you, good luck!

I don't remember seeing anything about a single line of code for SUSE written by Microsoft.

I don't mind you bashing Microsoft or for that matter Novell. But at least get your facts straight.

If anything the only thing the two companies have worked on is interoperability and Virtulization. A few identity management products for hetrogeneous networks. Exactly what part of SUSE did Microsoft develop?

Do I think Microsoft will shaft Novell? Yep.... do I think Microsoft is looking for a angle to sabotage open source? Yep... Will it work? Nope. Red Hat is handing Novell their asses in the enterprise and Windows 2000/2003 destroyed thier Netware foothold. It's all but the screaming.

But you blaming Microsoft for the subpar performance of SUSE is like blaming Microsoft for poor performance on a Mac because they have MS office products for them.

It's amusing how a post on any subject can lead to comment debate on Vista.

As far as mobile internet goes, I'll stick to my computer. That's nothing to do with the operating system or speed. If someone produced a perfect mobile operating system that did everything anyone could ever want and gave it to me on a phone with instantanious downloads, I'd still prefer to use a computer. That's because of the size of the screen and keyboard.

I spend a lot of time on the internet, both for work and pleasure. I don't fancy writing a long forum post or blog comment on a tiny keyboard. I've tried reading webcomics on a phone and it doesn't work because you can't see enough of the picture. If someone sends me a diagram to look at or asks me to check their presentation slides, I'd like to be using a screen where I can see the whole image. The same goes for if my sister sends me family photos.

I can't imagine any improvements in software or connection speeds will persuade me to stop using my laptop with its 10MB broadband connection as my internet device.

Seriously they think it'll be mobile phones?
Phones?!

Look back 11 years, there was no mobile phone to be seen. Look back another 11 and there were hardly any PC's.
Then take Moore's law into account. And now they reckon the current platform will reign for another 11 years? That's pretty damn short sighted for 'smart' people.

@Jess
Don't forget the fact that it's sometimes a relief to be disconnected.

Goblin, I agree with most of what you write here, however opensuse has worse ext3 performance because it has barriers enabled. It's meant to be safer than the other distributions, not that I care though, I use reiserfs.

@KitKat

You too, BTW.

I am going upstairs to the kitchen and help my mom make some home-made eggnogg. It's truly to die for!

Jess Meats says:

"It's amusing how a post on any subject can lead to comment debate on Vista."
----------------------------------------------------
Not really, since its MS's current Windows OS and this is MS Watch.
----------------------------------------------------
Jess says:

"As far as mobile internet goes, I'll stick to my computer. That's because of the size of the screen and keyboard. "
----------------------------------------------------
I find myself in complete agreement with that Jess. How can one type, or in my case, type poorly, on a cell phone? So Joe's point about Cell phones replacing computers to a large extent, will most likely never happen. Not to mention how many apps and games will never work on that small screen. Its as Jess says, not a replacement for her, or me.

One thing about this, is the disturbing number of people out there, who have computers, and cannot type at all. For these people, who I believe are in the majority of users, and cannot type, Joe might be right, that they could switch to a cell phone in the future. But for power users, no way a cell phone going replace a laptop.

@Goblin and Ghostmike

As an OpenSUSE refugee currently living happily in Ubuntuland, I can say that OpenSUSE was Vista-class slow long before MS had anything to do with Novell. The last version of OpenSUSE I used was 10.2. I left because that version had all kinds of package manager troubles, or at least it did for me. Something about Novell trying to shoehorn two other package manager systems in with YAST, but they never talked to each other and constantly screwed each other up. But even then, it took over a three minutes for OpenSUSE to boot up. I installed Ubuntu Feisty not long afterwards, and between the general speed, usability and polish of Ubuntu and the infamous agreement, I've never had any desire to look back.

Again Joe, this was not my post:
" The Hand :

@KitKat

You too, BTW.

I am going upstairs to the kitchen and help my mom make some home-made eggnogg. It's truly to die for!"

Joe will you please do something this time about the identity troll theft here?
And I doubt very much if that was KitKat's post either.

@The Hand
Who cares? It's comments to a blog, not a forum with profiles. Read the comments for interesting follow ups, that's what they should be for.

@chips
That's a good point about the typing. My parents sent me to typing lessons after school when I was nine, so I can get a pretty good speed on a standard keyboard, but spend ages mashing two keys at once when typing on a phone. So, there is a huge, huge difference for me. Those people who do two-finger typing on a computer will probably find the difference a lot less.

Still, I don't think the huge replacement Joe predicts is going to happen.

we are so behind,
the mobile internet hit 3-4 years ago but the us is still saying 20 years from now? eeeks 20 years of having phones with most features turned off or crippled. seeing phones in Japan and other with abilities we cannot dream of seeing here

I mean we just start seeing a portion of 3 G now - 3g is so 2K

sigh

@Jess Meats says:
"Those people who do two-finger typing on a computer will probably find the difference a lot less.
Still, I don't think the huge replacement Joe predicts is going to happen."
----------------------------------------------------
A cell phone will not be a replacement for a computer, unless you want to go blind looking at that tiny tiny screen. It might be ok for a very short time, or as either a cell phone, or to argument its use with a computer.

As far as learning to type, would we have not been better off learning on a Dvorak keyboard. Most likely these cell phones have a qwerty keyboard, and since they so small, it would be almost like learning to type on them all over again. Also Jess, most men have thicker fingers, which will hit two keys more often on the smaller keyboard.

The other problem with MS doing a cell phone to compete is the fact that they only sell the OS for the phone. The Profit is going be (most likely) in the sale of the hardware (at first) and then long term, in providing the cell/web service on a monthly basis. The operating system of these smart phones, are having to compete, more and more with free and open source alternatives, which will put considerable stain and price reduction factors on anything that MS will make.

As an example of this:
Palm CEO Confirms 'Nova' OS Is in the Wild

www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2337291,00.asp
and:
www.electronista.com/articles/08/09/22/palm.nova.os.in.summer.09/

Quote from the 2nd link: "The software should eventually replace the old Palm OS but is unusually complex through its switch to Linux, which will open up software development but also requires that Palm develop backwards compatibility that will still run older Palm OS apps."
--------------------------------------------------
The point being that Palm still continues the Windows Moble, but now will be soon offering the Nova OS based on Linux. So is this a cost cutting improvement or an improvement in general, or both? Interesting that Palm based it on Linux, when they were the ones that bought the failing BeOS.

Hi all,
Been away with Xmas related functions to find a crafty one thrown in by Ghostmike.

Quote Ghostmike "I don't remember seeing anything about a single line of code for SUSE written by Microsoft.
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I don't mind you bashing Microsoft or for that matter Novell. But at least get your facts straight."
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My reply:
Its funny that, because I dont remember typing that there was a single line of SUSE code written by MS. Now since Ill have to explain things to you Ghostmike, Ill go slow.
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My remark was a flippant observation to the coincidence that OpenSUSE is a slower performer. It was meant as a comparison to the binary slug Vista. Nothing more. Im sorry that went above you.
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Having said that, your next remark was a cracker as well:
"Do I think Microsoft will shaft Novell? Yep.... do I think Microsoft is looking for a angle to sabotage open source? Yep... Will it work? Nope. Red Hat is handing Novell their asses in the enterprise and Windows 2000/2003 destroyed thier Netware foothold. It's all but the screaming."
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So you tell me to get my facts right, then go on and produce this little tirade? Im not sure who's questions you are answering there, as that is not the question I asked of you, and it has a very fudgy theme to it.
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Now Mikey, how about you answering the question I did ask.

For clarification, and for Ghostmike in particular, can it be noted that from now on I will include a ;) after any sentence of sarcasm. That way there can be no misunderstandings, although I dont think Ghostmike is as simple as that, I believe he sought to avoid answering my question and to distort the message by pretending to misinterpret my response.
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I made this post on another thread, but since its now xmas eve, I thought I would do it again.
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In the spirit of good will to all (including shillers) I wish you all a merry xmas and/or Winter celebration. I look forward to typing to you all in 2009, and I hope that all our resident shill posters make a new years resolution to post even more incorrect and misleading posts - you people make the open source scene much easier to highlight.
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Thank you all!

Link is not working.
Perhaps give us another one?