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January 16, 2007 6:45 PM

Microsoft's Expression Means What?



Next month, Microsoft will bring to developers tools already in the queue for designers.

Microsoft plans to follow this month's Visual Studio code-name "Orcas" CTP (community technology preview) with another in February. The next Orcas CTP will include many of the tools Microsoft previously announced for its Expression Studio suite.

I spoke with Forest Key, director of product management for Microsoft's design tools, late yesterday after several Microsoft Watch readers voiced confusion about Expression. The software isn't available to subscriber developers through MSDN (Microsoft Developer Network), and they wanted to know why.

Aaron Stonerock, a Columbus, Ohio-based Internet lead programming analyst, was one of the Microsoft Watch readers asking for clarification about Expression. "From the response I received in the Expression Web discussion forum, the claim was that Expression was not a development tool and therefore did not belong in MSDN downloads. Applying that logic, Office will be the next cut from MSDN downloads."

I had similar reaction to Stonerock about Expression Web, which is first among the applications in the product family to be available. Like him I inquired and got a similar response from Microsoft's outside PR folks about Expression being for designers and not developers. The position seemed to contradict every briefing I had from Microsoft about Expression. So, I asked to speak with Key.

"Expression is a product for designers. Period," he said.

OK, so what happened to the developer-designer opportunity Key told me about in December (and for more than a year earlier)?

"We do think there is need for designers and developers to work more closely together," Key said. But the tools for developers will be Visual Studio Orcas and not Expression Studio.

Key emphasized that from a tool set perspective, the February Orcas CTP would bring many of the included designer tools closer to what will be available in Expression. Coming features include full WPF/E (Windows Presentation Foundation/Everywhere) support and design-like capabilities coming from Expression Blend.

"Visual Studio has design features, and it will have more with Orcas," Key emphasized.

Microsoft will seek to improve developer-design workflow at both ends, with two different but complementary product families. Rather than working with sketches or mock-up images, designers would use Expression to create the same project files that developers would use to manipulate with Visual Studio. Microsoft still seeks to improve developer-designer workflow as the key opportunity for Expression, but in conjunction with Visual Studio.

"Those of us that used the 3-4 [Expression] CTPs that had the ability to combine Vector and Pixel layers were excited to see a Microsoft tool that would eliminate the need for [Adobe] Photoshop and Illustrator," Stonerock said. "Now we are just upset. Microsoft blew it on clear communication of their direction with this product."

"The people who are confused are developers," Key said. "We have a design product for them, and, guess what, it's Visual Studio."

If developers are confused, so am I. The articulated marketing strategy sounds like a revision to me. Maybe it was a work in progress that needed refinement or clearer explanation. Maybe I misunderstood, as did others.

Tate Antrim, another developer working in Ohio, who expressed similar frustration as Stonerock. "Right now I have to use Corel Draw 13, Photoshop and a couple of other things to do any graphics for my pages that are exclusively done in ASP.NET," he said. "Come on Microsoft, I'm one of your evangelists--make it as easy as possible for me to develop stuff using your tools. Put Expression into MSDN."

Blend is the Expression product troubling me, because it sounds like a developer tool. If there is a Microsoft Flash competitor, WPF/E is going to be it.

Key chocked up any confusion to roles that aren't clear-cut. "We get that developers design. The labels designer and developer are useless--I'll be the first to admit it. The labels are not mutually exclusive populations."

For developers that want to do more design, "Visual Studio will deliver in spades," Key said, referring to Orcas.

Stonerock's question about Office and MSDN lingers, however. One of my first questions for Key was about why no Expression if Microsoft offers so many other products through MSDN that are not developer tools. Why are Publisher and Small Business Accounting available to developers through MSDN and not Expression?

Key didn't directly answer the question about why no Expression, and I wonder if he had one. He's one of Microsoft's straight shooters, who in my experience doesn't sidestep or sideline questions.

Microsoft should make Expression available through MSDN, so that evangelists within businesses can use the software and hands-on promote its adoption.

Yesterday, Key directionally discussed Expression version 2.0 and 3.0. By version 3.0, he expects the designer opportunity to be absolutely clear. In the meantime, with Oracs still in development--and three other Expression products, for that matter--Microsoft would do right by its developers and own business interests by broadening the Expression pool of users. MSDN would be a great delivery mechanism.

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Comments (9)

Mik :

Taking away products not meant for developers from MSDN does not make sense to me. Exchange Server is on MSDN for development and testing, not for productsion use, etc. Plenty of examples out there on MSDN. My company writes software for Office users, and for Expression Web users. So what, now Microsoft does not want our software to work well with Microsoft's offering?

Hey, we're Microsoft and we need to re-invent the Web site design and maintenance toolset because we're not having any impact on the Internets. These tube thingies are tricky.


Lets come up with a new way of doing the same-ol-same-ol, and charge a bunch of money. The designers will have to buy it because the developers made the decision to use V.S. because it was drag and drop.


Hey, let's only produce a windows version and make those designers leave their Macs behind too. That's a good one. They'll all love us now. (laughs maniacally).

Timmy :


What Forest is trying to say is simple... developers buy MSDN, designers do not. In the beginning "Sparkle" used to be the WPF tool that was heavily based in C#. What they are doing is removing the custom coding from the product --- thus, it is not a developer tool anymore.

Developers = C, C++, C# in the Microsoft mind.
Designers = HTML, Flash

Since WPF = Flash+ and WPF/E = Flash, and the fact that there is no more exposed C# in blend, it is now a designer tool that will generate XAML. If you want developer support you and the XAML off to them and they will use Visual Studio to add the appropriate code.

So, since MSDN is the Microsoft Developer Network, not the Microsoft Designer Network, Visual Studio goes to MSDN and Expressions goes to designers. Unfortunately, there is no MSDesN for designers to get tools, ask questions, post comments.

When it comes to workflow, Adobe has nailed it and I think developers and designers should stick with Adobe products and use MSFT product to code with. I also like the multi-vendor approach. Plus, designers want to use Macs and OS-X ... no reason to force them on Vista or Windows that doesn't support ColorSync (ICC Profiles) or other standards for designers.

anonymous :

Yeah that's Mac OS X's best thing..complete workflow for creative professionals..be it color management, image manipulation, advanced typography, solid standards-based multimedia support, best in the industry audio and DAW features.

Btw it appears Vista fully supports ICC V4, any image format thru WIC and nice typography and special FX thru WPF. Ppl just need good apps with good UIs to take advantage of them.

stop making sense :

no matter what you call yourself, designer or developer, if you have a web page of any complexity, you need an overall hierarchical view.
this is called Document Outline in vs2005 and it is absent in Expression Web. so, designers do not need this view while developers do.

please Stop Making Sense.

RP :

Absolutely agree!
Let them eat cake and make the Expression suite available through MSDN...

I think it's a snobby branding thing. MS wants to break into the Designer "in" crowd and the typcial elite designer crowd (who Microsoft is really courting) doesn't want to be associated with developers in any shape or form. MSDN is a developer brand that Expression and its target audience doesn't want stapled onto it.

Ed Goward :

Any change someone can post an image of Ocra icon / image editor?

That should tell us what we need to know :)

corkwatchr :

Microsoft is stating that the SharePoint Designer or Expression Web is the migration path for FrontPage users.

See here:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/frontpage/default.aspx?ofcresset=1

MSDN has always had FrontPage included. Microsoft is offering upgrade prices for the different versions of Expression. Does our MSDN version of FrontPage 2003 qualify for the upgrade prices of Expression?

As an MSDN subscriber and developer/instructor, I've always considered FrontPage a beginner's developer tool, often used by schools teaching HTML. I've never considered VS.NET a real web development environment; just a tool to make the gears work behind the pretty pictures.

As a professional full time .NET instructor (with no access to Expression), I will recommend to students to use DreamWeaver for pro web editing, which I know is a quality tool.

Brian Boyce :

Nice one Microsoft. I have just renewed our company MSDN licenses.

We currently use flash and flex for our RIA's, with blend and expression as part of MSDN we would have made the switch for workflow reasons. Now, not a chance as this looks too much like the tip of the iceberg.

Vista is incompatible with VS 2003 and SQL 2000 - not all our customers are willing to to shift up to .NET 2.0 and SQL 2005. - Poor Delivery No. 1

Expression and Blend have been taken out of MSDN as they are not for developers - So why was MS giving away (for free) copies of Expression at recent Flash/Flex DEVELOPER conferences!!

"Alienating Your Biggest Fans for Dummies"
by Microsoft

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