MS doesn't care about the wii.Its not Xbox's competition.The Wii is not a substitute for the 360 or PS3.Just as a bicycle is not a substitute for a car.

A successful franchise for Microsoft?
I was under the impression they've lost billions on XBox.

I have nothing against Xbox, I actually quite like it. But I've read that the hardware is so heavily subsidized that they aren't breaking even no matter how many they sell.

the Xbox is unquestionably a successful franchise??
Consider yourself questioned, shill-boy!

You proudly spout how you read all the comments - ok fine. Please explain how the xbox has been successful for microsoft over the last 8 or so years.

I can't wait to see what carpet you slip those billion dollar losses under. yes kids, BILLIONS!

Even if you're going to be a loss leader type competitor, it's been EIGHT years now. Any other company would be crucified for this performance.

How arrogant are you exactly?

"ooh look the wii is successful! I'll just coat-tail on that success and roll out some bogus 7 rules for success."

Hey why not write a book and sell it on day-time TV just to really stoop as low as possible!

I see from the IP address that "oh really?" and "and another thing" are the same person. How about you identify yourself that way?

I've been discussing those rules of good design for years, long before there was a Wii.

As for the "shill-boy" accusation, I guess you're not a regular reader of this blog. You're right. Microsoft has lost billions on Xbox. But the company has broader strategic objectives for the game console--and I don't necessarily agree with them all.

That said, Microsoft is now a major player in the gaming market. Eight years ago, many people laughed at the idea that Microsoft could take on Sony's PlayStation.

I think from a console perspective, Nintendo got lots more right with Wii than Microsoft did with Xbox 360. Or isn't that obvious from my post?

Joe

I would be interested to see how many Wii owner also have another console (in particular, PS3 or Xbox 360).

The other surprising thing is how incredible well the PS2 is still selling. On overall volume, both Nintendo and Sony out-sold Microsoft, 3 to 1.

Whats the chance of Microsoft bringing out there own handheld console?

The play value my kids have got from their DS-Lites is incredible. When I was a kid, we were always out stealing cigarettes and generally up to no good. The youth of today forms game swapping gangs and wastes countless hours brain training. Where have we gone wrong!?

Joe on this one I have to be on Microsoft's side. XBox is a great product. Let me rephrase that, XBox Live is a great product for which you need to buy an XBox.

I see two reasons why Wii outsells XBox. One can be found in Best Buy. Wii $249.99 XBox Console $349.99. The Elite $449.99. The only one that comes close to the Wii price is the Arcade $279.99. Of course the Arcade doesn't include a hard drive, the white Console has a 20GB one and the Elite a 120GB one. Which one gives you the best benefit for online gaming and content? Obviously the Elite. Almost 100% more expensive than the Wii. As a side note I have used up 50GB of my Elite's drive. So I don't think the white console would have been of great value online and much less so the Arcade.

The second reason for Wii's success is "fun". Like you mention it, people enjoy playing with Wii. Beyond that I'd like to add two more points to the "fun" experience in Wii. One: Wii gets you up and moving, you exercise, you sweat and you loose weight. Wii helps keep you fit, XBox keeps you on the couch. Two: Wii's game content is more family oriented and thus better viewed by parents. I know my folks wouldn't by my younger brothers something like Call of Duty 4 or heaven forbid Gears of War. Yet the games in Wii are well seen by them because of the style and content and because they can play them too. The learning curve is not so high. Thus they enjoy it and they accept it.

Combine the acceptance of the console with the lower price and you get a purchase. Particularly when it is the parents putting the money up for the purchases during Christmas season.

In regard to the Play Station. Well I'm kind of biased against Sony. I don't buy their products. Remember the root kit fiasco? Anyway that aside your comment regarding the Blu-Ray player is interesting. The guy in the store tried the same line on me when I was going to buy my XBox Elite. Get a PS3, bla bla bla and it includes the Blu-Ray. I told him I didn't own any Blu-Ray disks. He said I could go buy some. Well??? Isn't that like a solution looking for a problem? I get something I don't need that requires me to buy things I didn't need before? In my opinion PS3 is too expensive and its purchase leads you to even more expensive purchases: games, controllers (which are not as comfortable as the Xbox's IMHO), PSP etc.

Those are good rules for successful products. I believe on building on the familiar but 'when displacing something else offer a significantly better experience' seem somewhat at odds. The WII represents a break with the past, a significant innovation and that word: innovation needs to find place in your list, IMHO. Keep up the good work.

Actually, Joe, your point that MS is making money now on the Xbox360, is right on correct. Yes they have lost billions, in the past, but that does not alter the fact, that at present, they are now making a profit, and will of course continue to sell Xbox360's. A lot of the Xbox360's problems in making money were due to the faulty design, which to some extent, maybe still a problem. although a lesser problems than it was. Still, for this fact alone, I would never buy an Xbox360.

Also, Joe, I really liked your graph showing the sales figures, as I thought that was very nicely done. Especially since you added in the PS2 figures, which most will not, be should be. PS2 is still of course being sold by Sony, and almost sold as many units as the Xbox360. The PS2 for many many years dominated the gaming console market. It still has the most games (PS2) of any gaming console, and will play all or most, of the PS1 games as well. This was another reason that MS had to dump Xbox below cost when they started, as Sony was so well entrenched with the PS2. Which contributed to the billions MS lost on their product.

Also, Joe, I liked this post, it was well balanced, and you pointed out most of the relevant facts. You ever pointed out the fact that Xbox360 (some of them) went with HD-DVD (Toshiba) which is becoming a clear loser to Blueray (Sony). This clearly spells some sort of trouble for XBox360 vs PS3 down the road, since the PS3 will come with Blueray, on some models. Sony and MS are now clashing in the gaming console market, and with high definition DVD formats, expect more wars between these two companies in the future.

For myself, I have bought a few old PS1 games, to play on Linux using espxe. This way I can retro game on some older favorties like Civilization 2 and the Tomb Raider series of games.

Thanks for the nice post Joe, well done.

"I think from a console perspective, Nintendo got lots more right with Wii than Microsoft did with Xbox 360."

Certainly the Wii has been a runaway success to date. But it's a marathon not a sprint, so your comment may be premature. Even currently, more $ overall are being spent on Xbox if you include console+games. As prices comes down for Xbox and PS3, we'll see how well the Wii holds up.

That said, I think others were right to question your "unquestionable a successful franchise" comment. Financially, Xbox has been one of the biggest failures in tech corporate history and is unlikely to ever recoup the money lost. And even marketshare wise, it's now struggling for 2nd place against the profitable from nearly day one Wii.

I would like to know how much money ms are making from xbox live. As a 'former' online pc gamer Im not used to paying for mulitplayer action - and the lack of internet content put me off. The wii and ps3 both have good web browers.

Some of the wii success is due to the price , the other is that it touches markets that the xbox will never have. It has been the must have xmas present for two years in a row, just like the ps2 before it.

I do not understand Gerardo comments about hating sony because of their root kit - but doesn't bash MS for the many many evil things they have done. Sony are evil , but not even on the same league as ms.

Regarding ms making a profit on the xbox. Maybe they do make a small profit on each console sale now - unlike they used to. However I expect no one has thought of the billions they have had to pay for the many faulty consoles they sell.

There is a significant statistic that most sites ignore when refering only to console unit sales and that is the number of titles (i.e. games) the average user has purchased for the console. I don't remember the exact numbers here, but XBox outsells Wii in the category by far...

To "ps". The clarification of my position in regards to Sony is to set things straight that I am biased towards them. Because of their digital content management strategy which places content copyright over and above client security. So I would not buy a PS3 anyway. Still I find it interesting that the "integrated Blu-Ray player" line is so common. IMHO it's a solution looking for a problem.

Beyond that, I'm also strongly against a great deal of Microsoft's actions. If you hang out enough here you'll see I'm a strong open standards/open source supporter. Yet I recognize that (for me) the XBox is a good console for online gaming. A hobby I enjoy and one I will not skip over just because I prefer Linux over Windows.

Echoing previous comments, I'd like to see the numbers on software. I understand the Wii games selling relatively low numbers. Some owners might only play the game that comes with the system. It's good enough for some fun at the occasional gathering of friends & family.

Joe,
respect that you replied - bonus points for that.

However two bogus points are issued to you for the following:

1.) There is no onus to identify oneself, or do you really think there's people called chips and i-man?

2.) You started the post off with "Xbox is unquestionably a successful franchise for Microsoft" as the 3rd sentence, or did you not see that? I don't see anything in your reply to explain what makes it such an unquestionable success. Unless you count the fact that they didn't exist 8 years ago and now they do exist (with a net loss of?) - whoopee for them!

As i said, anyone else would be crucified by bloggers like yourself for this performance. And i'd also wager that we'd see the words xbox and beleaguered in the same sentence a hell of a lot more!

Hopefully in combination with your "unquestionable success" comment, that explains my "shill boy" accusations... :) Any questions, feel free to reply again

@oh really? - again:

I will tell you this. I-Man spends his entire day writing posts on yahoo finance and here on Microsoft Watch with his fake good press on VCSY. Constantly, VCSY, all the time. This is a prop and drop or pump and dump stock scam, and it is a shame that it is allowed here. He can feel free to perpetuate his garbage on yahoo finance and I really don't care. I just feel he is doing a disservice to us all here who come for news and views. Joe starts a topic and then we should comment ABOUT THAT TOPIC, not VCSY.

I want to hear more complaints about I-Man. Voice our opinion. He really needs to stop, because he is making a joke out of Microsoft Watch.

Tom

New PSN ad mocks Xbox Live costs

http://www.playthree.net/2008/01/new-psn-ad-mocks-xbox-live-costs.html

Quote; "A new ad for PSN highlights that it is free to play online on the PS3, subtly lambasting the cost associated with Xbox Live.

The ad is appearing online on various videogame websites with the message 'PlayStation Network - Where the fun is always free.' Sony is finally making amends for ignoring one of the strongest selling points of the PS3 - free online gaming. The Xbox 360 requires an annual subscription for gamers to play online."

Joe wrote: "...my seven tenants of good product design."

That should be "tenets." Other than that gaffe, I am pretty much in agreement with what you wrote.

As for the PS3 being a Blu Ray player that also happens to be a game machine... that's how I justified the purchase of a PS3 for myself. (It doesn't hurt that the PS3 is easily software upgradable, compared to many of the first generation stand-alone Blu Ray players.)

You guys seem to know all about the xbox is it true that Microsoft Has Started Banning People From Xbox Live