Still 3 to get it right for Microsoft? I don't think so. Zune is another example of M$ wasting money on a fight that's already over. Nice to see those monopoly margins for Windows and Office being put to such good use.

By that logic Apple should just get rid of the Mac line. I mean the desktop wars were won over a decade ago. But the fact remains the Mac is a viable platform and Zunes are a decent media player. I own an 80 gig model and see no reason to rush out and buy a new one at this time. It is nice to see that they plan to continue competing in this arena though.

You're right, the Mac should have died. It was rescued by Microsoft to avoid further antitrust problems with the government. Then Apple got lucky when Microsoft, after staring into it's own navel for six years, produced something as weak as Vista. Apple's not standing still with iPod. The music player game is over.

That's one way of looking at it.

Here's another. Choice is a good thing. More competition equates to better products and lower prices. Without Apple and open source as viable choices Microsoft wouldn't be looking into ways to improve Vista and their next OS. iPod has market dominance and that's fine, but if it never has any competition you can expect innovation and performance to go out the window.

So to summarize, there are loads of new features to help you buy stuff from them, plus it comes in different colours.

Its funny that Zunes original target was the iPod, but as soon as the iPod Touch came out they are suddenly aiming at a totally different audience. Isn't the audience for BOTH machines 'people who listen to audio while moving around'? If Apple is for people who want the coolest, then Zune is for people who want something dorky and uncool? I can see the ads now 'Zune... Its cheap and not the best, it comes in Pink but it is not cool!'

Competition is good, but not when they openly give up competing.

Apple are masters of marketing pseudocool to wannabes; and the teen market is a highly conformist group that wants the same brands as all of their friends.

On the other hand, Sony Walkman was once considered to be unbeatable.

In any event, it's nice to see that Zune keeps getting better.

phil, actually zune 1.0 was already better than ipod at the time. things like wireless built in, large form-factor screen, rotating the screen to watch movies / pictures in widescreen format are just a number of things apple took from that early incarnation for it's high end devices.

and what has microsoft taken from apple, other than the core functionality of a media player? other than previously loyal fans, not a lot? since 2.0 the zune has only gotten better and better, leaps and bounds, unlike apple's fairy-step-like progression which isn't backwards compatibility.

i'll applaud apple for the ipod touch / iphone. it's a great platform for those that can afford it, want a large device, and like an entire touch interface. sadly most people want none of those things from a music player, and for each of those microsoft, sandisk, and creatire are catering to their every whim whilst apple leaves them behind.

i wouldn't even argue that the teen market is pseudocool wannabes, as jonhj points out. back in the day it was a split between that type, and the savvy unique person that set trends.. i'd even say this type is more prevelant these days.. the stylings of the software, marketplace, and the device are certainly more 'cool' than apple's offerings at the moment.

anyway, i know this is microsoft watch, so some bias should be expected, but it's good to see the blogsphere responding more and more positively with each new update of zune. good work.

My impression is that this is a dying niche market. Seems like good music playing is built into all cell phones now (including download from PCs). Seems like all the teens are just playing their music off their cell phones. Why do you need to carry around two things?

Apple will transition entirely to the iPhone line. MS, who knows?

Phil, I'm not sure why this has to be a war with a winner and a loser. Why can't people have preferences, just as they do with TVs, stereos, or any other consumer product?

I absolutely love my Zune - it's one of my favorite technology products ever. I don't compare it to iPod as I've never owned one, and don't really have a basis to comment about the iPod. But that Zune is an awesome music player, and that's what I bought it for, so I'm happy.

Wait, I just thought of a comment - as a Zune owner, I'm glad MS is giving me the update for free. I'd be angry if they obsoleted my 4-month-old player, just as I'd be angry at Apple if I felt pressured to buy a new model while the old one was still working. It's pretty tough to argue that always getting the current software and firmware without buying a new model is a bad thing.

"Microsoft is retiring Zune 4 and 80, and supplies are already limited."

Not if you shop at BigLots or Overstock.com.

LOL

The new 120s will be there by Christmas, probably for $149. Steve Ballmer's little "gift" to MSFT shareholders.

The Zune 120 is available now from Amazon for $249 - on my wish list.

I'm not interested in the iPod...well, maybe the Shuffle for the kiddies.

I don't have problem with competition. But I do have a problem with Zune supporters claiming Zune increases competition. Seems to me, Zune has pushed Creative and Archos down, reducing competition. I also have a problem with Zune marketers claiming they're in some market outside of iPods that is growing when they haven't grown market share even after expanding to the Flash market that represents 60% of Apple's market (Zune remains at 2.6% of the DMP market).

Wow, that is a bizarre definition of "reducing competition", Tim. As far as I see, Creative and Archos are still making audio players. That they're competing with MS now does not mean competition has been reduced. Competition is higher, as they are all fighting harder for the same market. For competition to be reduced, there actually has to be a drop in the number of companies making DMP. Not just that it gets harder for some companies to sell their player. Otherwise Apple would be far more guilty of reducing competition.

Wes, you have a pretty juvenile sense of competition. When companies are substantially weaker and lose a huge chunk of their market share because they were dependent on Microsoft's support of an ecosystem, competition is decreased, not increased just because you've added another weak player. And yes, Apple has been blowing away and eliminating competition -- but Apple isn't saying they are helping competition either. Microsoft probably is unique as a powerful competitor to iTunes/iPod, but looking at the stats, where iPod's marketshare has remained unchanged (except for the statistical blip up or down), Microsoft has remained unchanged, and everyone besides SanDisk has decreased substantially -- there's no way to read that as increased competition.

Zune is doomed. Why?

Quote from a group of my daughter's tweener friends:"Apple makes the cool stuff and Microsoft copies them."

Give it a break... My kids both have Zune players. Both are 1st gen 30GB, and why buy new (which is the measure of iPod success) when they will get Ver 3.0 for FREE! The sound quality is better than most, the video clarity is the best, the software and support kill the static iPod!

Regardless of your Loyalty to the MAC Throne, you gotta respect a company that keeps your old device current! When has Steve given you mac faithful a break?

DougR, you got it right man!

I don't know why there's so many iPod lovers out there. The only thing apple did well with the iPod was nice asthetics, but besides that they don't offer any great functionality beyond most other players, especially zune. The only problem Zune has is overcomming the uninformed perspective of a bunch of iPod users. But in reality, the Zune is better, higher quality and offers more functionality. Anyone with a modicum of logic can see that.

I don't know why there's so many Windows lovers out there. The only thing Microsoft did well with Windows was VB, but besides that they don't offer any great functionality beyond most other operating systems, especially OS X. The only problem Apple has is overcoming the uninformed perspective of a bunch of corporate IT guys. But in reality, OS X is better, higher quality and offers more functionality. Anyone with a modicum of logic can see that.

Well, Flipper, I don't remember saying anything about Windows. But we understand that you that choose to live in a limited box with someone else running your world can't see the forest for the trees. I perfer to pick my hardware a piece at a time, run ALL of my apps (old and new), have the support of the majority, and enjoy the security and reliabiltiy of my creation. And if you're curious, I use Vista Ultimate 64 and have NEVER had a crash, blue screen, etc etc. Not a big fan of OSX, and never will be... but to each his own. If I were (and trust me there are no plans) to switch, I would pick LINUX over any MAC. I'd at least have my pick of ANY hardware!

ADDED BONUS: I am fully compatible with ALL my software at work!

Joe;

With the latest news of the disastrous Apple release of the iTunes 8.0 that is attempting to cause many to suffer on Vista the BSOD has been proven due to some pretty terrible code writing as told on ZDNet -- Perhaps some people will take a look at Zune and go in that direction.

I have an iPod and after downloading the crapware from Apple for Windows, though I personally didn't have a problem with the BSOD, Apple loaded some crap that I didn't have any use for and removed everything. WinAmp has a wonderful, fast, and very stable add-on to manage iPods, Zunes, or whatever.

Just thought I throw this bit of information into the ring...

Am I missing something here? Doesn't the 2.1 update work on 1st Generation iPod Touches as well as the new generation just like Apple did with the iPhone and iPhone 3G? Where is this lack of support for early adopters that you guys are talking about? I still have my 5Gen iPod and it works fine even with iTunes 8. No problems what so ever, and about the screen, I'm understand that the resolution is the same as the Zune but MS decided to use a bigger screen with bigger pixels. That doesn't make it better. In order for MS to move away from DOS they had to hire Digital's VMS developers, that is how WNT came to be. So Windows New Technology was really VMS old technology purchased, just like Gates originally did with DOS. Microsoft: No culture No Innovation. Internally, and you can Google this if you want, the original Zune and the Nano were basically using the same chips. Pretty interesting right, especially since the Nano came before the Zune. Lastly, can someone explain why Microsoft uses points instead of easy to understand dollars and cents in the MarketPlaces?

Douglas, AFAIK, when the Zune was release it was incompatible with Vista, also did Microsoft release a converter for PlaysForSure music purchases so that they could be played on the Zune? Nothing like alienating your partners and your customers. Give me two reasons why Microsoft does not suck? They should just buy Solaris from Sun and call it Windows 3000. Or they should go back to designing mice and keyboards. The AmigaOS was light years ahead of Windows and we are talking about a quarter of a century ago!

I have a Zune80 as well and love the thing. Never had an iPod simply because I'm the type of person that just doesn't like having the same thing millions of others do. My Z80 certainly makes me stand out in a sea of iPods but I wish like hell MS would move faster to include new features and update the device just as quickly as Apple does.

I like the idea of the iPhone but Im a true music lover and carry a 4300 track collection that’s continually growing and won't fit on an iPhone; not to mention that I wouldn't like the idea have having to stop listening to my tunes to answer the phone. I like that MS added the 120g model because unlike most folks who are satisfied with MP3s, I want high quality lossless tracks that give the best experience.