"I wonder how many of those glowing Leopard reviews will be updated in the weeks ahead to account for persistent problems. They should be updated or succeeded by newer reviews."

     -Joe

After eWeek updates the dismal review of VS2008 and the fact that not only did a menu change so did many other things. Can't have it both ways Joe need to allow those to give what ever review they want and not have to update just as much as eWeek and Ziff Davis does not.

I will try OS X 10.5 when I can choose the manufacture of the computer I can install it on. Do I have to buy a Mac in order to try it?

I will begin my review with the idea that it stinks because I can't run it on my own machine. I guess I can't review something I can't get to run with out buy a Mac.

It is like trying to buy a PC without Windows and getting Linux. Until they are a monopoly I guess buying Mac OS/X can only be done by buying a Mac and this will continue. Can’t force someone to do something they don’t want to until they become a monopoly.

I installed Leopard this morning in a Power Mac G4. Installation was straightforward and trouble-free. 8 hours later, my Leopard has had no hiccups, sneezes or coughs, and I'm enjoying the thrill of exploring the new features in both the OS itself and in the individual applications.

I did install Leopard over a Tiger system which I checked for faults beforehand. It is possible problems such as these which existed in other user's 'old' OSs may have given rise to the difficulties reported with relish on 'Microsoft Watch' and elsewhere.

I suppose, Joe, you need your little bit of fun at the expense of a software vendor other then dear old Uncle Bill!

Last week I bought a new MacBook Pro for my wife - replacing her failing 4 year old Compaq Presario notebook running XP.

Leopard runs flawlessly and I've not seen even a single hiccup.

I have installed Leopard on my MacBook Pro as well as my PowerMac Dual G5. I did clean installs on both and have encountered only single problem as of yet. I have downloaded the most recent updates of every application I run and most of them have had an update since Leopard came out. The only issue I've run into is that PostgreSQL 8.2 won't install using MacPorts. Other than that, this is quickly becoming the most productive OS I've ever used.

I got Leopard immediately and have been running it for 10 days. I have worked with many Macs & PCs over the years. This is the easiest upgrade I've ever installed. It is also the most quietly astounding lineup of user-focused improvements I've seen. I keep looking up new aspects that I need to tweak and find something that was done exactly the way that I wish it had been done. BTW: eWeek could really beef up its credibility if it were to do more with its headlines than repeat a single security story multiple times. Perhaps a scoring system would help. How many security flaws does Vista fight v. how many for Leopard? Security must always be a top priority and I appreciate all the work that people put into finding the holes - but what I saw when I logged in today makes eWeek looks like an in-house newsletter for Microsoft.

Michael Bonner
Would that include none OS items like quick time and or media player?

www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9811774-7.html?tag=nefd.blgs

Apple needs to realize that this is not 1995. You need to publicize your beta programs and stop thinking about the almighty dollar which they require for their Developer kits. The fact that its so iffy on the benefits of the Developer kits, a developer can purchase one during a Mac OS X Beta and never get the final GM software and thats all they get - Betas plus the current stable GM releases of OS X client and Server.

MSDN is so much better, you not only get good Developer content but a whole library of software to test. ADC members should have access to the entire software library, but in some ways I understand Apples position, most users would just pay the $500 and get Final Cut Studio, Aperture and others. But they could probably charge more and gain more Developers and users at the same time.

But I hope for Mac OS 10.6 they have a Public beta similar to what they did with 10.0. Go back to your roots Apple, your secretive, Steve Jobs paranoia approach is hurting you, your partners and customers. 2007 has definitely been the year of defective Apple products.

Joe,

I want to interrupt your re-writing of Vista's history to remind you of something: Even with Microsoft's extensive press contacts and astroturfing campaign they couldn't BUY a good Vista review in the first few weeks of release. (In fact, good Vista press is scarce even now, unless one visits your site or Paul Thurrott's.)

To compare the Leopard release -- initial reviews of which have been glowing -- to Vista is shameful, if not outright trolling. Microsoft made a HUGE mistake with Vista. That mistake will likely not be made by them again, and it sure as heck wasn't just made by Apple, no matter how many times Microsoft tells you to write it that way.

I'm sure blowing off the glowing reviews by claiming everyone will change their mind in the next few weeks works fine in the Microsoft shill world, but for us real users the fact of the matter is overall Leopard consensus is extremely positive, where Vista's, even now, is not.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how to install it on anything other than a Mac? I have this nice new OS in theory but I'm FORCED to use a Mac. Where is the articles on How to Build a Mac using my own parts or better yet where is the Dell/Sony/etc.. computer running OS X 10.5. Is having the OS run on 500 times the amount of PCs too much for Apple support. Too many head aches and therefore limit the use of OS X to the machines we build and support. I guess support hardware you don't build is to big of a burden to take on and better left to a more suitable company I just won't mention there name.

I only use a Mac (mini G4) for one thing - to run Handbrake. Since installing Leopard the video settings view doesn't refresh - I have to drag a finder window around the screen over the Handbrake window to cause it to paint. So for the only app I care about, Leopard is broken.

How many manufactures run your OS?

Vista: Too many to count
ABS Computer Technologies
Alienware
Compaq Computer Systems
Dell Computers
eMachines
Falcon Northwest
Gateway Computers
IBM/Lenovo
MicronPC
Microtel Computer Systems
Voodoo Computers
Polywell Computers
Sony Electronics
vprMatrix
The mom and pop shop at the corner shopping center next to the Apple Store.

Mac OS X: 1
Apple, inc.

From my limited perspective it seems to me that the whole MS vs Apple arguments come down to marketing. I know a lot of Windows users who don't like Macs with a passion but are equally critical of Windows and MS. In other words they wouldn't use anything other than Windows but bag it every chance they get. What you never see is the reverse. I have never known a Mac user be critical (in a derogatory manner) of their own machine. Apple has achieved a loyalty amongst its customers that Microsoft probably never will and it comes down to Aplle selling a lifestyle rather than mere technology.

I'm a windows user and I have never had any hassles. Never had a virus, no spyware, no blue screens (since XP) and no trouble running any software. My limited experience with Macs has been similar (except that not all my applications run on Macs). In other words for the average Joe like me out there who takes the right precautions with anti-virus and firewalls, Vista, Leopard, Linux does what you paid for and does it equally well.

MS is the company everyone loves to hate (even if it's not reflected in their sales figures) because MS sells boring stuff like software. Apple is the company that people love to have because Apple has managed to convince them that what they sell is happiness.

Michael Bonner
Would we not only track viruses but also flaws in the OS that cause major damage?

www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2212875,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03119TX1K0000594

But there is no concern it only happens when the moon and the stars are aligned correctly so no need to fix it. And no user should see the error. I'm just spreading FUD.

Most users should not see this problem. First, it requires a connection interruption. Second, when you drag data between volumes in the Mac OS X Finder, the default behavior is to copy, not move (a change from the OS 9 days, inherited from OS X's Unix heritage); to move items between volumes, users have to hold the Command key down while dragging.

".... Live IDs and a Windows install base approaching 1 billion users, Microsoft has plenty of customers to worry about. "
Joe

Could apple have that many installs if they keep the manufacturing of the PC to themselves. Interesting MS did this with out building the PC for which windows would be FORCED to run on. Instead MS forced the OEMs to only sell Windows but back in the 90s the only other option before Linux was Apple and Apple did not want to be installed on anything other than a Mac. The MS OEM enforcement came when Linux arrived.

I'm just wondering if Apple is limiting the install base because of the Mac Machine requirement. Can't get OS X unless you buy a Mac. If they allowed it to run on any machine would there be a potential for more installs? More machines to install it on means more potential for people to install it.

"Even with Microsoft's extensive press contacts and astroturfing campaign they couldn't BUY a good Vista review in the first few weeks of release."

Yeah. That's true. Apple, on the other hand, was able to buy exceptionally positive initial reviews.

Joe, what's wrong with you , all of a sudden , you start to love Microsoft ?

"Apple, on the other hand, was able to buy exceptionally positive initial reviews."

The point I made, which you missed completely, is that crappy software -- especially an OS -- will NOT get exceptionally positive reviews. The fact that Leopard DID is bugging the heck out of Microsoft, and by extension its shill community (of which Joe is only a recent member), so they're FUDding it along two lines:

- Vista wasn't so bad. Sadly, since it was only nine months ago, and many of the issue remain this isn't going to work too well.

- Leopard must not be that good because we combed discussion boards and found complaints. As for the great reviews, well, we're sure they'll change their minds.

Both argument are pathetic and weak. They are, in fact, little more than trolling.

Marty wrote: "Joe, what's wrong with you, all of a sudden, you start to love Microsoft?"

I'm neutral on Microsoft--as I have always been. I call Microsoft on its screwups and Apple, too.

The perception of anti-Microsoft bias comes more from commenter reaction. Most posts considered negative--say, discussing Vista problems--were about the experience rather than the technology.

What has changed: I've lightened up on the analysis and started doing a bit more news, which has changed the length and number of posts. Tonal quality of a shorter, newsy piece is different than the longer analysis. I may put a bit more snip in the tone, too, for more lively reading.

Joe

Ah. no. Sorry, mate.

3 Macbooks so far - some wee issues - no showstoppers. All upgraded within hours of Leopard going live.

Unlike Vista. 2 months - smashed head in frustration at screen and vowed never to beta-test MS software again. (Oh, it *was* a gold release, just buggy enough for Beta).

Mind you - I do have something to thank Vista for. After 23 years in IT, it forced me to buy a Mac. Thank you Steve Ballmer and the Vista team.

Can you stop fluffing MS now and get back to beating them mercilessly when they screw up?

Or is this 'AppleWatch' now ?

---* Bill

I upgraded my 5-year-old eMac (bought it new for $799) from Panther (10.3.9) to Leopard, and it's amazing.
I figured I'd take a speed hit, but I can tell just in the past week that Leopard is snappier and faster. And all of my periperals (10-year-old Epson scanner, 7 year-old Canon printer) work just fine.
My only regret is that I don't have an external hard drive to mess with Time Machine.

@alguem

Why would you even consider osx if you don't want to have to buy a mac? is it so hard to grasp that a company decides to sell them as an integrated pair rather than an os for any pc?

It's fine that you don't like that, so just don't buy it. But i have to ask - what would you suggest apple do? should they ditch osx and become a windows oem? or should they ditch their hw/sw combined approach and compete nakedly against microsoft in the generic-box-os stakes, with oems that have been pushing windows for 15+ years and will most certainly undercut apple on hw price, lowering their margins and with lack of differentiator in turn forcing apple to try and keep up on the cheapy-beepy stakes and thus end up selling crap?

Personally i think Apple is smart for doing neither of these things, and after just recently "switchering" and getting a macbook pro and upgrading to leopard i'm also quite pleased with how they're performing down they're chosen path.

Computerworld - Leopard Spanks Vista

""Throughout the four years of the Vista development process, I tested and evaluated at least 15 different alphas and betas of the operating system, spending hundreds of hours evaluating the late prereleases and the final editions. Likewise, I spent countless hours testing Leopard, both in prerelease form and the final version now available to the public. What I found after all that testing is that despite their similarities on paper, Leopard and Vista are nothing alike," Finnie reports.

"Vista has a cover-Microsoft's-butt, designed-by-corporate-committee feel, while Leopard tightly adheres to Apple's well-honed user-interface design principles. In numerous small ways, Apple has improved its OS, while Microsoft has, in a plethora of ways, changed Windows -- not always for the better," Finnie reports. "With OS X 10.5, Apple is clearly going head to head with Microsoft and Vista. With the smoke clearing, it's also apparent that Apple still has a lead on Microsoft when it comes to user interface and functionality."

"It's impossible to miss the refinement infused throughout Apple's new operating system, whereas there are compromises in Vista that impinge upon the user experience without giving something back in return. Apple is focused on the user experience, while Microsoft appears to be focused on antipiracy, overengineered security protections, and digital rights management aimed at serving its prospective third-party partners," Finnie reports. "There's really no contest. Tiger is a better OS than Vista, and there are no long-term downsides to Leopard. Vista doesn't measure up."

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9045689

I have to wonder. I really have to. All you guys bashing Vista. Have you ever used Vista? or are you just repeating what some reporters say? Or are you just anti-Microsoft? I have nearly 20 years of experience with computers. I have used all previous versions of Windows, besides other OS's. Vista is simply the fastest, more reliable and secure operating Desktop operating system that has ever come out of Microsoft, if you have the recommended hardware. Most reports against Vista were just anti-microsoft.

You tell 'em Evan! The widespread acceptance of Vista, especially in IT, backs your claims nicely.

Perhaps it's time for Apple to bite the bullet and put a moratorium on Leopard upgrades?

That quote is from an Apple blog over at ZD Net. In a post concerning a major data-loss bug [1.], he continues to allege that Apple screwed up with the beta and release of Leopard. They did not give developers the final GM builds and chose to ignore major bugs in order to rush the release out "on time". So now we get reports of major bugs with "Time Machine" and the built in Firewall that breaks applications, which were not discovered by the reviewers who only try the system superficially.

Ironically, many of the people here who are dismissing Joe's post on this sound very much like people who were dismissively called Windows defenders or Microsoft shills. "Works for me." "I've had no problems whatsoever." "It must be your machine." "You're being biased." (Funny, how ten months ago, Joe was a biased Mac fanatic. Now he's a biased Vista defender.)

Honestly, both companies handled the release of their new OS less than perfectly.

[1.] (If you use the Finder to move a file between volumes and one of the volumes disappears in the middle of the move process causing the move to fail to complete, Finder will delete the originals as though the move operation was successful.)

Wes, the problem you cite is real, the bug is real, but it affects almost no one. Files moved using the copy command will be OK even if the connected volume is disconnected or otherwise fails.

The data loss problem is specific to only the Move command, something that requires a special key combination and is rarely used by 99% of Mac owners. Most people use and are happy with the plain old Copy command. So why the breathless hype for a non-issue that will be fixed in the first point upgrade?

@sky is not falling
Yes the problem only affects a rare scenario but it's still a big flaw in a fundamental OS function like moving files.

That said i'm running leopard very happily in both my macs and while i suspect most of the anti-leopard talk is hugely exaggerated (have only had one issue - one double-lid close to go to sleep but couldn't reproduce again [i do that about 10x a day when moving between client sites]) but i KNOW that any claims of speed issues are pure and utter BS! For god's sake one of my client's play-around-macs is a "sunflower G4" and it runs very well indeed with leopard!

sky is not falling, thanks for proving my point with you response of "doesn't affect me". That is quite a new argument -- nobody moves files. And people gave Vista grief for slowness in moving and copying files. And here you are trying to dismiss a bug in a fundamental OS function.

Here's the funny thing. I see most of the comments here are of the variety of the media is exaggerating the problems, the very excused that was mocked by some as the last gasp of Microsoft defenders.

So, I just bought a Macbook Pro and installed the Leopard disk- and then went and did my updates. As much s I would really really love t say that all is fie and happy- it is not. The IDVD program (even after the download) is having issues- weird things like not being able to move an image around etc. I have to work in it because I haven't installed my Final cut pro yet- and to be honest- im scared to do so!! On a whole, I am not happy with this new operating system. I am (today) trying to see if I can go back to the old operating system.... if its possible.Not a happy camper.