Microsoft doesn't want to make a lot of noise about XP SP3 mostly because it can only hurt Vista sales.

@Joe Wilcox:

I'm sorry to keep harping on this, but still no answer from anyone on this.

Nobody yet has been able to answer me; perhaps you can. What does Windows Vista do that Windows XP does not/cannot? What productivity apps or video/imaging apps or games can I play on Vista that I cannot with XP? Is there something in Vista that maybe down the road it will be able to run things XP will not?

Security. I ran Windows XP behind a router firewall, Windows firewall, and fully updated AVG. I never had a virus or trojan. I did surf the internet and opened emails with common sense and security in mind. Is the added security in Vista what makes it so much better? Is it truly better? If so, is that all?

Joe, don't get me wrong. I have been running Vista Ultimate on my PC for about 2 years (including betas & RC's) and have had virtually no problems. I just don't know what is the added value of Vista. Some say that people won't move to Vista because XP is "good enough". I am saying that Vista isn't "better enough". I can't even say it is better at all. Vista works great for me. But so what. So does XP and it REALLY feels faster on my machine.

Joe. Can you tell me what is better in Vista? What does Vista allow us to do that XP does not? If there is anything, is it worth the cost of a copy of Vista and the time and effort getting it up and running with all our apps on our PC's?

Hi, Bob. Seriously, you are an above average computer user because you are smart enough not to blindly install stuff on the Internet. Your email server has good virus filter - not everyone does. UAC can act as a reminder to inexperienced users that the app they are installing will have full control of their computer.

Here are some things that I've noticed.

1. Much improved views of files in Windows Explorer. You have much more control over how to view files in folders (more templates). What info would you like to see about your music files? Your Office files? Your pictures? Other docs?

2. IIS 7.0. IIS 7.0 includes many new features, including a totally new UI, the new IIS pipeline and application pools - all of which is not available in Windows XP. It is also the same web server used by Windows Server 2008.

3. Windows Defender (anti-spyware), PowerShell and other apps are now bundled with the OS.

4. The Windows Sidebar. Use from hundreds of existing gadgets or create your own gadget to act as windows to information that can be viewed from the desktop. For example, set up the RSS Viewer to feed from Digg.com.

5. A nicer looking user interface. Sure, maybe not considered an important feature by many users, but if Vista was uglier than Windows XP, it'd be considered a knock against Vista. Sort through running apps with WindowsKey + Tab, Semi-transparent frames, animated background (Vista Ultimate) and fast hibernation.

6. An improved Task Manager. You can now view/control the Windows Services in Task Manager, besides just apps and processes.

7. Better games bundled with the OS. For example, at high resolution, maximize Spider Solitaire in Windows XP (tiny playing cards spread apart) and then try it on Vista (new graphics and enlarged cards). Don't forget Halo 2 for the PC that hooks up with XBox Live.

8. Better support for x64. As the push for x64 moves forward, new software will be developed for Vista/Windows 2008, not necessarily 64-bit Win XP.

To me, the OS is part of the computer the way the engine is part of the car. If I bought a new car of the model I'm already driving, it would come with a better engine, but I'm not considering upgrading the engine in the existing car, nor am I upgrading my XP PCs to Vista. I do like the two machines I run that came with Vista.

I agree with Bob Maine that Vista does not contain features that compel an upgrade, but I do like it better in many small ways. There's a long list of admittedly minor features that to me add up to a more enjoyable OS, despite the absence of any "must have" improvements.

That said, there won't be any more development for XP, while there will be for Vista for a long time to come. I like the idea of running a current OS where I'm getting new apps that take advantage of the features, power toys, or whatever anyone chooses to release for it. I can't quantify what any of this will be for Vista, but I know there won't be anything at all for XP.

"XP SP3 may be the most anticipated Windows service pack ever."

Just exactly what is in SP3 that is not in a fully patched XP SP2? I for one am not holding my breath.

Are IT folks feverishly rubbing their hands together in anticipation? For God's sake, why?

So, will I still have to download SP1 or SP2 first before installing SP3 on my home machine ? If that's the case, M$ has finally made themselves nothing more than a piece of shit ! A lot of us loyal customers went through all that god damn mother f***ing trouble of purchasing Windows XP back in 2001 and 2002 and now we have to install 2 service packs for two f***ing hours ?!? As a matter of fact, most companies still hold Windows XP Gold and then choose to install the latest service pack. I'd sure hate to see them being forced into having to install two service packs instead of one like the good old days. If there's one thing M$ is so f***ing good at, it's saying F*** YOU to its customers ! I hope the Linux community gets its shit together and shows respects for newcomers rather than writing them off with their RTFM CONDESCENDING BULLSHIT !

Jack Jones wrote

"I hope the Linux community gets its shit together and shows respects for newcomers rather than writing them off with their RTFM CONDESCENDING BULLSHIT !"
--------------------------------------------------

I believe the Ubuntu forums are much better than the other Linux forums. In fact if anyone answers with RTFM there, they can get banned from the forum.

Linux is ready for desktop, but are people ready for Linux? Red Hat and Suse kind of let Ubuntu take the lead in desktop, and as some suggested that Ubuntu is becoming the 'generic" Linux distro. Lot of pre interest in the upcoming 8.04 Ubuntu and some say could be the largest bit torrent use to date.

A few comments

One unnamed national computer talk show host seems to believe that we just just go with Vista and forget XP and goes on to say Linux is a waste of time.

People like that are helping to hold back Linux desktop adoption as there are people who want to jump ship off the Vista Titanic to maybe something like Linux but are being fed misinformation from these entrenched Redmond lackeys.

Hosts who endlessly and blindly tell users to just move to Vista, have absolutely no credibility.

MSFT has said F*** YOU to its customers by taking XP PRO off the market June 30 2008 and that is somehow supposed to make everyone "migrate to Vista". Yea people will be migrating alright, but it isn't to Vista.

As far as SP3, cannot one just slipstream into a V-lite or k-lite program and either do or almost do a unattended that way?

I tried the SP3 build on a older computer and didn't note any difference, but maybe others will. I would like to see XP around long enough to go to a SP4, but Ballmer knows best as ..Vista is work in distress er I mean Vista is a work thats a mess or maybe its Vista its anyones guess or ....

You see... it's this way. Microsoft's desktop is......doomed.(By Portuno)

By J. Nicholas Hoover
InformationWeek
April 21, 2008 11:00 AM

Already, Desktone has signed up Verizon (NYSE: VZ) Businesss and European and Asian carriers as hosters, and IBM (NYSE: IBM) as a partner. Desktone streams just the graphical interface of an entire operating system -- Windows XP only for now -- and all of its applications to a PC or thin client from a service provider's data center, where all the computation takes place.

(more at URL)
http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/server_virtualization/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=1LFZX03ZSZIO2QSNDLPCKHSCJUNN2JVN?articleID=207400866
-----------------------------------------------

What happens when Microsoft shuts off the XP faucet? Easy. Just go to a URL and download XP ala cross platform.

Like I said; the day will come when the OS is squirted into the bare metal along with whatever applications the client wants to run local, but a huge portion of all computing will be done on the backs of the servers and the client will be load balanced for doing precisely what it's best at given the level of hardware sophistication available.

And those packages Microsoft sells? Bwaaahhhh ha ha haaa haaaaaa
------------------------------------------
Verizon sees Microsoft is a potential competitor...

... and Microsoft doesn't have the technology to fight having its ass kicked by the phone company. Funny. Very funny, Steve. Oz, ya done good with what you got, granny. You should act more than talk. If anyone uses more techno-babble than me, you're the one.

While Softees swoon about their XP and Vista conundrums. While Applees wax euphoric about their OS X. While Linux sighs a collective contentment about all their various distros. Verizon starts squirting operating systems into whatever you have.

You girls had better start talking about something more futuristic or we're all going to start calling you ma'am.

Steve Ballmer told one truth in April. "Meanwhile, the internet marches on."

http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/server_virtualization/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=1LFZX03ZSZIO2QSNDLPCKHSCJUNN2JVN?articleID=207400866

"..."desktops as a service" through service providers like Verizon Businesss and European and Asian carriers; IBM is a partner. "

Wooops. I see I-Man beat me to it already.

Sorry to step on your line, I-Man. I thought you were banned here?

I should start reading the comments before I post, Joe. But, to be honest about it, the shills and the haters bore the crap out of me and I've taken to shotgunning the comments with a speedread so I won't puke from the banality.

It's certainly not from you. I find your articles interesting and informative. The Microsoft butt kissing is a bit yucky but I know you have to play good cop bad cop just to get those fidgety resources to talk so I don't hold it against you.

It makes my independence that much more precious.

Thanks, Joe, for the interesting release history of Windows 2000 service packs. They were obviously much more cyclical.

Noting a few comments:
Like most service packs released by software providers, Windows XP SP3 includes SP1 and SP2. Companies should install Windows Gold and then install the latest version of the service pack.

Ubuntu (a popular form of Linux) is a wonderful alterative to Windows, as well as Mac OS and others. When competing software vendors continue to improve their products, the consumers ultimately benefit. For example: Mozilla, Opera, Microsoft, and Apple Safari compete by continually fixing/adding capabilities in their Web browsers. They do the work; we get better software.

Software as a service? All OS desktops are doomed? As the article noted, for a mere $75.00 per user/month, businesses would be guaranteed the latest versions of the software, whether it be an operating system (Windows, Linux or Mac OS) or a software application. Of course, this will only be possible after Desktone/Verizon purchase hosting licenses.

I hope the folks praising "software as a service" are not full time IT employees. As stated, a majority of the IT folks (and their periodic but necessary training) will no longer be necessary for desktop deployments, maintenance and upgrades. How will the IT folks pay the monthly fees for their ISP, XBox Live, TiVo/cable/dish, cell phones, and leased vehicles for hauling the RAC furniture without employment? Stop payment and they have nothing to show for their money.

Thanks, but I'd rather avoid monthly fees by owning my software licenses, my TracFone and DTV converter boxes.

"How will the IT folks pay the monthly fees for their ISP, XBox Live, TiVo/cable/dish, cell phones, and leased vehicles for hauling the RAC furniture without employment? Stop payment and they have nothing to show for their money.

Thanks, but I'd rather avoid monthly fees by owning my software licenses, my TracFone and DTV converter boxes."

It may suprise you to find I think you have a perfectly valid point of view. In fact, many will one day wish they had held their privacy and personal control a whole lot closer. It would have at least given them a fighting chance to keep some of it.

But, this is about money and when Business smells the money made by not nursing your own IT plantation and not having training classes, remediation strategies, disaster recovery scenarios and ungodly insurance rates because your server system is in a flood zone... sorry, but, a great idea goes unignored.

What can possibly be running through Ozzie's mind? He knows the true path and he's sold his soul to

I used Lotus today to try to set up some meeting for some folks to chat. A TOTAL LOAD OF CRAP FOR A UI. Hey, Oz, I do hope you learned some friendliness between then and now.

And how is it you can't make Groove integrate with what Microsoft has? How much money will it take??? If Microsoft can't do it, are we to assume IT CAN'T BE DONE?

Sorry, Davin, but the robber barrons of the late 20th century anger me because they've nursed their self interests at the cost of business and community productivities. Well, the paradigm has changed and the disruption's begun.

And now we have visions of thousands of IT attendants on the soup line.

One telling feature of the new class of software creation: you only need a fraction of the people you would normally employ for building applications and integration. So, layoffs become one of the most telling indications a company has been seeded with this next generation class of software.

It happened at Verizon. It happened at IBM. It's what SOA predicts, isn't it? Now, it's happening at Yahoo. Where next?

Sorry to break it to you folks, but, this decimation will herald an untellable degree of productive industry as machines take over the tasks the neuvo homelss once flogged. Given the degree of class envy that's going to be shoveled this political season, I don't suspect there will be many teary eyes for those who have to put the beamer up for sale.

Can anyone tell me, why SP3 is released to enterprises first and only then to end users. Are there any difference in code? Why it's a normal policy and what difference does it make - not to release it for everyone all together?

Back on-topic, for a moment:

Yes, SP3 is coming out way too late for those of us who have to rebuild "blown up" customer computers from an SP2 disk. It wasn't so much the wall time for doing the updates, it was MUCH MORE the fact that they had to be done via human intervention in 3 different stages-- the most horrible step being the conflicting mess-up of WGA Updates between July and early September, 2007, which Windows Update could never handle without a separate download.

But really, all I can say now is "thank you, thank you!" I've been using an RC2 with success on desktops, but hope to enjoy using the full release on all Windoze XP PCs from now on. :))
- - - - -

Now for some semi-off-topic replies:
Tangerine, the code is the same. But "Enterprises" (and people like me) download the huge ".exe" file to a server, and make the PCs run it from there. Using Windows Update over the Internet is a SIGNIFICANTLY different kind of installation code-- although the resulting updates applied in your box SHOULD be the same.

Roger: SP3 should be only a LITTLE BIT different than your current, up-to-date SP2 and all recommended patches system. But there are just a couple of things which are so interdependent that MS didn't want to allow for people to break the dependencies by offering them as separate patches, so there will be a few changes when you apply the Service Pack. (You will be getting a couple megabytes of updates to reach "Service Pack 3", but because you're current from Windows Update, you won't be getting the whole 350+ MB which a "new" SP2 installation would get.)

Jack Jones, you're stupid and foul-mouthed. I'm just as happy to ask you to *GO AWAY!!!* from here as I'd ask you to leave a Linux message board. If you're so offended by Microsoft practices, stop using their software. If you're so offended by Linux, and BSD, and Apple, and Nintendo, stop using their stuff too! For you, I'd recommend going back to wet clay tablets and pointed sticks. Your post sounds like you're a stone-age cretin, so please stick with appropriate tools and leave computers alone.

Now, for others wondering about the only coherent question in his post: I'll *GUESS* that SP3 for Windows XP, unlike Service packs for Office, is all-inclusive: you will NOT have to put on Service Pack 1, then service pack 2, before installing it. (Since I've got lots of SP2 disks ("home", "professional", etc., the "problem" won't happen in my case-- I'm always starting from an SP2 disk then applying the SP3 update from CD.
- - - - -

I fix Windows computers, but I'm USING this: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9pre) Gecko/2008041211 Minefield/3.0pre - Build ID: 2008041211

@rickst29

So, can you enlighten us as to how and why Microsoft continues to screw up with their distribution and updating?

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9079645

TechNet subscribers rip Microsoft over XP SP3 'farce'

IT pros, developers incredulous that it will be available publicly before they can test

April 22, 2008 (Computerworld) In a repeat of a February donnybrook over Service Pack 1 for Windows Vista, IT professionals and developers are blasting Microsoft Corp.'s decision to withhold the final version of Windows XP Service Pack 3 (SP3) from them until after it's released to the public.

Subscribers to TechNet and the Microsoft Developer Network (MSDN), who pay Microsoft hundreds of dollars a year for the right to download software for testing and development purposes, called the move a "farce," a "slap in the face" and "ludicrous."

Yesterday, Microsoft announced that it had finished Windows XP SP3, the last major update for the six-and-a-half-year-old operating system, and said that it would post the upgrade on Windows Update and its own online download site next Tuesday, April 29.

But subscribers to the TechNet and MSDN services won't be able to obtain SP3 until sometime "within the next month," according to Chris Keroack, the service pack's release manager.

(more at URL)
--------------

Are they doing all this by hand? Don't they have automated systems by which they can manage their distributions?

Uhhhhh... why not? Has the Microsoft brain drain cut into their ability to perform?

rickst29, I never use windows update. I always install full service packs and sometimes use modified win xp instalations with integrated updates, not just integrated SP's. So the question is- is that RTM SP3 for enterprises the same full service pack that will be available as big download for offline instalation on microsoft site one week later?

portuno, Thanks for the link-- I was planning to download from MSDN myself! I've no idea why MS plans to push it onto WU first this time. Maybe there's a lot of "newly enhanced WGA" BS built into the Windows Update version, which wouldn't apply in a site-licensed scenario, but I'll SWAG that it's actually a reliability concern.

MS seems to focus on money in almost everything they do. Maybe they imagine the $$$ to be in encouraging a few "bad" users to "get legal" (before the "enhanced" WGA stuff is cracked anyway, which I'll predict to be done in merely a matter of hours or days). But because MS actually has support CONTRACTS with most Enterprises, I'll guess that they would prefer it to "blow up" on a bunch of "if-you-want-support-then-you'll-have-to-pay-us" home PC's first. (i.e., users who don't have contracts with penalty clauses).

So maybe the "original" plan was to use the general public as a gargantuan Beta-Test, not offering it on MSDN or TechNet until after it's vigorously shaken and stirred by the "you've-got-no-rights-to-damages" general public first.
Service Pack 3 is *definitely* in only one version, but maybe they'd wanted a chance to put any "gotcha!" fixes from the public "beta test" into the "enterprise" off-line install before distributing it. Home users could just suffer in two steps, being ordered to go back to WU for more critical updates to fix the Service pack.

So, Tangerine, I think that they're HOPING the RTM SP3 remains identical when released for Enterprises-- but I'm guessing that this plan was created so that they could offer a single-step "Service Pack 3 enhanced with whatever fixes turned out to be critical to make it work" version instead, if they need to do that.

I've no idea if all the screaming, which portuno linked us to, will change that plan. But any enterprise in their right mind should be testing for weeks/months anyway, letting OTHER people shake out the bugs.

Anyway, it's become a Microsoft habit: They never make GENUINE Release Candidates anymore. Like lots of other software companies, their "release process" actually allows for major differences between the final "Release Candidate" and the "Gold" or GA version. So the first users are actually testing code which has never been in wide release before....

This is a really bad habit, I think. One of the Linux companies which I use a lot, Mandriva, just shot themselves in the foot (last week) by doing this too: Their "final" DVD version of 2008.1 is radically different from their final "RC", and it turned out to contain a pretty severe bug in the process for upgrading from 2008.0. If they'd done a full-featured RC3, I would have caught this bug for them-- but their final RC, RC2, had so many unresolved issues that I didn't with bother it.

Jack Jones,

Spot on. It's amazing that most posters including M$ rectum licker "rickst29" don't want to tell you the truth. Notice that "rickst29" only talks about Office and not Windows on service pack history. Frankly, like M$, he could give a rat's ass less about us home users being written off by M$.

As for Linux, I haven't seen anything change whatsoever for the better. Sure, if your machine is 4 years old, Linux might be for you. However, don't forget that for all the money you might have had to pay for those Windowz apps, most of them won't work in Linux even under WineHQ. The "you're-on-your-own" mentality in the Linux community is a message that they have no intention of actually competing with M$ but instead putting a DUMBSHOW. Frankly, I hope they keep LOSING because that's where they're going. I guess assholes such as "rickst29" are scared that there are more people standing up to this bullshit. If "rickst29" doesn't like what we have to say, well, he can go f*** himself.

Anne4 and Jack Jones,

Here's the download link to Windows XP SP3 FINAL RTM Build 5512:

http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/3/5/53519680-fcc0-4a00-86e0-e7d5cba84461/WindowsXP-KB936929-SP3-x86-ENU.exe

As far as I've tested, it is indeed the final and it's straight from Microsoft. Good luck and please me know how the slipstreaming goes on Windows XP Gold. I work in a government agency and everytime Windows XP is installed on a new machine, they pull out XP Gold and then install SP2 over it.

Vista is generally usable but I've encountered several annoying issues. One is that, from time to time, Vista would get into a state where it CONSTANTLY accesses the hard drive, even when I have no application running! What the hell is it doing??? It's wearing out my hard drive. For what reason?

The only way to stop the non-stop hard drive access is to reboot. That's really annoying.

Windows XP never behaved this way. I think it's much, much safer to stick with XP.

Hi everyone,

Don't forget that Microsoft will still keep offering free public security updates for Windows XP up to 4/9/2014. That's plenty of time to upgrade IMO though I don't know how useful Windows XP will be by then.

Tangerine: The reason why large companies get it first is because they require testing [as well as large deployments] of their applications to verify if they will have any issues. They generally start with a test lab [or equivalent] One company, I heard, has 3,000+ applications [granted not all running Windows].

Those companies also pay big bucks in support, service contracts, licensing, etc.

Anne4: Possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on a comments board. I actually have a machine that's 5 years old now, and linux is running faster and snappier than my other 1 yr old pc running vista. How do you explain that? Also, let's not forget about all that expensive windows software I had to pay for. You know, the stuff I've wasted money on when about 95% of it can be replaced with a free equivalent from numerous linux package managers. Oh, and the operating system itself--which is also free (that's a big one too, try not to forget that one). And the commment about "being on your own" in the linux community, now there's a steaming pile of bullshit. I've been able to get fixes, advice, procedures from knowlegdeable people sometimes within minutes on the forum boards. You just have to know how to ask, but of course, with your general anti-social, anti-community attitude your mileage may have varied from mine. Furthermore, linux is not "LOSING", whatever that means, it's been growing in popularity and use with each year and it continues marching on. Why would anyone root against it? IT'S FREE. What do you stand to lose from it's growth?

Lastly, a "DUMBSHOW"? How does the linux community pull off a dumbshow? If anyone's doing this it's microsoft: 400$ for a os that does little beyond the capabilities of its predecessor? Now that's what I call, in your words, a "DUMBSHOW".

Tell me, how's the view from that pile of bullshit your swimming in?