New pricing options, new servers, all non-free, all virus-prone.

Lots of new products to make enterprises pony up for something they could have gotten for free or at least for much less (and with less maintenance too). Any smart IT manager should look at Linux first and then the savings when compared to using Windows.

In one case, I installed a home-brewed e-mail server using CentOS (free verison of RHEL) and Postfix. We even provided training (at a price, of course). All that was at 1/4 the copst of setting up M$ Exchange.

Forget Windows on the server. It's a waste of time and money.

Damn straight Maddog! Why pay someone for what you use if you can get it for free - that's the way forward for the IT industry! free free FREE!!! get it nowwwww.

Combined with a wave of embarrasing home-brewed servers out there i can't think of a CIO that WOULDN'T take FOSS seriously.

Did i mention it's cheap?? i mean like free, as in beer AND speech!

I hate Microsoft with a passion, but mostly for pushing the rest of the commercial software companies into providing all their wares for free making them hopeless at competing. As a result if you are not Microsoft you are expected to provide your software for free. Very healthy for this our industry...! Thanks RMS

Maddog What would you do to pay for a living if you did not get paid because everything is FREE. How would you pay your bills if you did not get a paycheck? I "buy" into you FREE idea once you tell me if people get my product for FREE how I pay the eclectic bill? Ohh training well geez why not offer that for free, would that not then perceived as not being free because in order to learn the free product I pay for training?
I wonder why you where not born thousands or years ago to prevent the monetary system from being invented instead we would have everything is FREE economy?
You ain’t gona get nothing for free.
And also Exchange is not the only windows mail solution ever hear of MDameon? It my not be free it is cheaper because they still need to make a living and pay the bills.

Hmmm. One has to wonder why maddog is even read this. Maybe he just likes his Linux on a server, and still uses Windows ME as his desktop.

LOL @ the ranter!

Maddog , you wrote : I installed a home-brewed e-mail server .

We are IT managers with 2000 users

You are an IT manager with 2 "home" users

My network is a mix of Windows and Linux. Sorry to say Maddog is right even on large scales. Linux is cheaper to install with postfix even when you spend 2000 USD on a card. Its a patent matching card not available for windows in any form. It makes virus and spam filter email use min to no load on the machine. Note virus scan all incoming and out going mail without stress. So any virus that gets into the mail server will not be spreed on after its detectable. Note server is connected to a 10g network connection. I just cannot get a windows server under 5000 USD to do it.

Please note mail server without effective virus scanning ie how you have to run Exchange not to break server underload. Under Linux is 700 USD with hardware its a linux NAS. Comes out box with Windows ADS integration. So I hope maddog was doing something more defensive.

Main reason I pay for Windows is one thing its called the Active Directory Server not mail. MS servers just don't have the parts to make them effective. Yes is a hardware problem.

It would be quite happy with your 2000 users Marty. Lot happier with 1G accounts than exchange. Linux people use free software. But you still have to pay the people. Developers somewhere to fix stuff and your own staff. It only reduces one cost.

Note postfix is not my preferred mail server.

Marty Says:
"We are IT managers with 2000 users

@Marty:
Maybe you need to call your local ISP to get clue.
They will give it for free, no need to buy one.

correction:

@Marty:
Maybe you need to call your local ISP to get A clue.
They will give it for free, no need to buy one.

Libre said: Maddog What would you do to pay for a living if you did not get paid because everything is FREE. How would you pay your bills if you did not get a paycheck?

The same way I always have: by working. I get paid to train, to write, and to manage technical documentation. The software I use is free (as in free to view, modify, and distribute).

In case you haven't noticed, you are making a strawman argument. You misrepresent another position and attack the misrepresentation. That invovles a logical fallacy, of which you are guilty. I never said that absolutely everything has to be free. You said that (and it's silly). We say software should be free. We didn't say cars and food and everything else should be free.

Next time, read and understand what's being said before commenting. You will look less silly that way.

By the way, the e-mail server I installed is used by a public utility supplier. Their head office (where it is located) has over 40 local users.

And I have personal Linux desktop. The office, however, has XP/BSD desktops. No way am I going to run Windows ME or Vista on that hardware. we don't need the security headaches they bring.

My point was to be as silly as was your comments.
What I did was take your inch of an idea that this should be free and stretched it a mile.
Where will you stop?
Next you will want your food for free. But you will pay the guy to bring the free food to your house. Yet you will believe you paid nothing for the food. Or if you drive to get it you did not realize you spent money on gas. Thank for being an up front hones sales person and hide the cost in something else and sell me the idea of it being free. I bet to get training you would charge me an arm and a leg because that is how you recoup your cost because you one can't with free software.

Get your FEE Domino' pizza delivered to you home*. Large pepperoni pizza with extra cheese and a 2 litter bottle of Pepsi.

pizza is free but you must pay $40 for the delivery.

Come one come all get your FREE email server. Training will cost ya $1,000 per person.
What if you sell no training how do you pay for the cost of building free software? Or does it even cost money to build software, maybe that is why it is free. Service you say. Ok then what is the fee? Is it free or $250 per Service Call?
What is the cost of training again? Can I expect/demand quality service (talking to an individual on the phone not the internet forum/email/chat) for paying nothing as opposed to paying something? As stated you get what you pay for and when forking over money we expect things and demand thing when it is free what can you expect and leverage do you have to demand things? You got it for free can help it if the FREE pizza had only two pepperonis on it and the cheese slide off the pizza it is free what did you expect?

@oiaohm

FWIW, i wasn't talking about technical merit of systems vs systems.

Technically there's no question that Exchange copes worse with user load than Linux with cyrus, postfix, anything.

That the number of concurrent users supported per equivalent piece of hardware isn't the only metric of "what's better" is i guess a whole other discussion.

Did i mention i hate Microsoft with a passion already? ah yes i did! Especially Exchange with its artificial tie-in to AD, and it's big hulking mom 'n pop pair of stm and edb files and it's whacky zany MAPI, etc.

But as big bill said himself in the shareholder meeting, why just encase people's email in a proprietary file format if you can do the same with ALL their information. (ie. SharePoint) Yes i para-phrased the Gates-a-tron a little there, but while you're at it feel free to imagine a Dr. Evil type laugh at the end of that...

Why even use exchange, do you think that is the only email solution for windows?
Ohh I get it in order to make one thing look bad and another thing look good you focus on the bad.
You can always find what you are looking for. If you want to find crap in a product you will find it.
Have you all ever hear of MDameon?
Just because you get the OS from MS does not mean you have to use all of the other stuff.
Why not try and compare your Linux solution to windows solution with MDameon? Again the CTO will be lower than Windows/Exchange but be higher than the CTO for Linux. But with that higher cost I can call someone on the phone. Along with free support (is that free or did I get it because I paid for the software, is support hidden in the cost of the software). If I want to pay more I can get Relay Fax, Outlook connectivity, AntiVirus, etc...
And MDameon may just be one of many other alternatives there maybe more.

That is TCO (total cost of ownership) not CTO.

@the ranter
Its not exactly number of users per bit of hardware. When doing 100 percent scanning on all incoming and out going from a server. You either need something with MS Windows License that supports at least 20 cores or Under 5000 dollar linux box. The pattern matching card is equal to about 20 cpus in its own right for virus scanning spam filter and the like. Its also good on file servers when you are scanning everything read and written to them. Advantage of this is virus spreed from server stops as soon as its detectable.

These are just things you don't do with windows. Reason load will just kill your server dead and there are no interface drivers for patent matching cards for windows. To be correct its one of the rare bits of hardware that only has Linux drivers.

There is a hardware support problem. One class of cards is not supported just happens to be the best assistance to network defence.

Yes the evil open source enterprise management systems are equally evil when compared to sharepoint. The database might not be closed but each one uses a different storage format. Its the same amount of work to covert between any of them.

Heck I have seen 5000 dollar linux boxes wrapped around sharepoint servers because you cannot get the card for windows. Before you say the company should release for windows the drivers. Sorry you don't expect the same for Linux. Something great like this was going to be developed sooner or latter. Just poor Windows only networks cannot get it for another 10 years. The company that makes the pattern matcher is sitting on a patent.

Basically screwed by lack of hardware. Its really funny that is exactly the same problem people complain about with Linux.

@libre
Even if Windows was free. It would be still massively more expensive to do the same thing than Linux. The difference is the card. The difference is so large in fact you can buy a 24/7 support contracts for Linux of your choosing and still be cheaper than the hardware need just to run the Windows to do the task. As I say hardware problem.

The other important thing is the on going power bill the pattern matching card only pulls 15 watts at full load. You are losing hand over fist.

Basically TCO is not even close. You compare TCO on same function. If you drop virus scanning lots of cases you might as well go for Linux NAS's since they have 12 months support at he cost of a single windows license. Note without hardware to run the Windows on.

TCO is basically screwed. Windows Server License priced out ball park. Now if Windows Servers did not have CAL's the extra price might to be too bad when compared to NAS systems.

@oiaohm

what relevance does a single effing card that deals with malware patterns have to do with a broad discussion about the state of IT?

But then again by the sounds of it, The JesusCard (tm) is such a huge game changer it will surely be plastered all over the interwebnets by tomorrow as the bell-ringer of Linux' impending dominance and fall of all other OSes... (if only there were more C programmers around to make drivers this wouldn't have happened!)

As they say at the register

Coat. Hat. Door. Right...

Note the card is closed spec. So will not matter how many C coders you point at it. You would need to point reverses at it. Something windows is critically missing.

As with all things if Linux has drivers reverses normally don't touch it.

Sorry the ranter. If you cannot find a card that almost all anti-virus software for Linux uses to accelerate there scanning past normal processor limits. Poor you.

Basically its like a GPU for scanning. It can do to many side by side. Basically you upload all the virus and malware signatures into it. Operations for pattern matching are not complex just you need to do a lot of them.

Its performance difference is not different to you CPU doing GPU work. So no its not a JesusCard its something your windows users are missing out on.

When to comes down to TCO. Lack of key bits of hardware makes major differences in cost. Please note this card to do pattern matching is not even new. Its onto its 3 generation of its tech. Its 3 year old tech and no one has built windows drivers for it yet. So yes its already been around the interwebnets. We have another dumb windows user that does not know the best tech out there for virus scanning and network defense.