Joe,
Quote;
"So, Microsoft expects that 22 percent of customers will buy Windows XP during fiscal 2008."
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The end of January of 2008 is supposed to be the last of when OEM's can pre-install XP. What I am thinking that this statement means is that XP is still for sale, but not for OEM's to pre-install. Thinking maybe for one more year?

Now unless Vista SP1 solves a whole lot of problems, Microsoft is going be between a rock and a hard place if they do not extend the pre-installs for OEM's past January 2008. Vista is not there yet for most businesses to deploy, except for all the M$ shills and paid employee bloggers (perhaps a few fanbois as well) who will write in to respond to this. Vista is still clearly an alpha product at this point.

Lets play some semantics here Joe. Vista was RTMed and available to Business customers with Volume License contracts in November of 2006, persons with MSDN and TechNET accounts could even download it. I have been running Vista Ultimate RTM since November of 2006. There is a difference between general availability and RTM. Microsoft said it would release Vista in 2006 and it did, just that only some persons (a segment of the market) received it before others. The world wide availability of Vista was launched in January 2007. I'm sure when Windows 95 was released, it wasn't available everywhere for a while. XP's world wide availability was launched in December 2001 although it RTMed in August '01 and officially launched in October '01, yet customers had it on new PC's as early as September 2001.

chips b malroy wrote: "The end of January of 2008 is supposed to be the last of when OEM's can pre-install XP."

Hi, Chips,

Microsoft's fiscal year began on July 1, so the end of XP OEM licenses would be seven months into the year. Also, businesses with Enterprise Agreements could exercise downgrade rights.

Joe

Andre Da Costa wrote: "Lets play some semantics here Joe...There is a difference between general availability and RTM. Microsoft said it would release Vista in 2006 and it did."

Hi, Andre,

There are no semantics here. No disrespect intended, but maybe you've been misled by Microsoft marketing efforts. Microsoft made out November 2006 release to businesses as keeping commitment to shipping in 2006. But that's not the commitment made by Microsoft. With great hoopla, in August 2004, Microsoft committed to "widespread availability" in 2006. The company kept to that ship time until the March 2006 announcement that Vista wouldn't be ready in time for holiday PCs.

Thanks,

Joe

Maybe Microsoft is fighting lil VCSY because not only would Microsoft have to settle and pay licensing agreements but also cover Many, Many shares that they are short of VCSY stock that is held by strong hands, which could wind-up costing Billions of dollars alone. If someone Shorts a certain companys stock for 7 years, it could become quite costly to cover those shares if your plan to put that company out of business fails! imo

? Vertical Computer Systems, Inc. Files Patent Infringement Lawsuit Against Microsoft Corporation
PR Newswire (Fri, Apr 20)

Can you figure out for yourself where CDC/Ross fits into this?
? Now Solutions Successfully Resolves Its Lawsuit Against Ross Systems
PrimeNewswire (Wed, Apr 18)

"Microsoft committed to "widespread availability" in 2006."

Um, releasing it to businesses is "widespread availability" Joe. It's just not consumer-availability. Surely even in Wilcox world, every business on the planet having access = widespread?

Joe,
Thanks for the clarification of when OEM's have to stop pre=installs of XP. Not sure if your July 2008 date is for businesses or the general public. I do believe however, that this date has been pushed back, and was origionally Jan 2008.

Now the end of life for XP (no more support or patches) is Jan 2009.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx

My understanding is that the OEM versions will not be available after Jan 2008
Quote;
"The OEM version of XP Professional goes next January," said Frank Luburic, senior ThinkPad product manager for Lenovo. "At that point, they'll have no choice."
Source;
http://apcmag.com/5835/vendors_in_no_rush_to_ditch_xp_for_vista

I would not be surprised if the date for OEM pre-installs how been rolled back to your July 2008 that you gave. As Vista is just not ready to replace XP for a lot of folks out there. Still, if this has happened without MS making any kind of announcement, then it is almost like MS admitting failure on the part of its new OS Vista.

Thanks for responding in the earilier comment. Perhaps you see why I now say the times maybe off. I would usually trust your times more than my information.

What I don't understand is why MS is taking so long about SP1 and being so vague, especially with so many people publicly saying they're going to wait until SP1 before deploying. I'm telling my clients to wait until SP1 if they can.

Look at what SP1 should contain: Bug and security fixes, performance tweaks, compatibility improvements, and new/updated drivers. Most of that list is already available (eg via Windows Update) and just needs to be packaged and formally tested. New features really should be left to SP2 or SP3.

Waiting so long to release SP1 is doing nothing to improve Vista's "Windows Me II" image and is a very bad decision by Microsoft.

Paul wrote: "Businesses is 'widespread availability'...every business on the planet having access = widespread."

Mmm, Paul,

Eighty-percent of Windows Client revenue comes through OEM licensing, which means most customers, whether business or consumer, buy Windows on new PCs. Windows Vista wasn't available on new PCs until 2007. That 20 percent also includes retail sales, so very few businesses--those buying Windows through volume licensing--could get the software in 2006.

Joe

Joe, perhaps we are talking apples and oranges here with OEM pre-installs for the general public vs businesses?

http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-6175735-7.html
quote from that link;

"Microsoft will stop selling Windows XP to PC makers such as Dell, Lenovo and Hewlett-Packard by January 31, a company representative confirmed Thursday." Thats January 31st 2008.

"the smaller custom PC makers, a year later, the representative said." Which is basically white box assembly type operations.

Also from the MS page on end of life products;

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx

The end date is January 31, 2008. End of life for XP is January 31, 2009.

Think MS is making a huge mistake if they take MS off the market, unless they can do a whole lot better with Vista by that time.

Microsoft confirmed at MGX that the target date for the next version of Windows is 2010. So, you should at least have some interest in moving to Vista by then Chips.

Ha, obviously MS has problems with Vista pack 1(Very complicated to fix Vista, is it not thus, MS?- very complicated to make drives for Me II, is it not thus third-party companies?). Now, people will be waiting for a GOOD pack 1 and THIS is the real problem.
Let's see; 2008 Vista pack 1, 2010 Windows 7 (Vienna or whatever) I'd bet that it is the death certificate of the newly born Vista (don't forget that each six months there is a new Ubuntu improved.)

to Andre Da Costa :
Quote; "Microsoft confirmed at MGX that the target date for the next version of Windows is 2010. So, you should at least have some interest in moving to Vista by then Chips."
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Andre, while I can't see myself ever using Vista, I won't say that its impossible. There are some laptops that go on sale that would be hard to resist buying. Sadly, some come with Vista and may not have drivers for XP. While I mainly run Linux, I am not religious about it, and use the best OS for the app used. However, I tend to be careful about my purchases, and would avoid junk, which to me is a Vista only laptop.

Linux with XP dual boot setup, is the correct upgrade path. Linux is very good without the viral problems of windows at this point. XP will be useful for many years, especially with freeware and open source apps being developed for it for years to come. I expect XP to be the dominate OS in the windows line for the next 5 to 6 years. Vista will never take over at 10% a year or less. Vienna, maybe, if its a better OS.

Also, I would never buy a laptop that would not run Linux. That I am religious about. Sadly Windows has fallen behind, and MS dosen't seem to care about its users anymore. The fact that MS did not do enough to fix the security problems and only released Vista with embedded DRM just to make more money, completely sours me on Vista. The point being that I run Windows so few times anymore now, that I could get by with Vista just for the few times I need windows. But I would not like it.

Joe,
While it seems you are right about the time XP will go off the market for large OEM's;
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027532&intsrc=hm_list

so was the ones made references to earlier. So the thing is, somehow MS changed its mind and decided to extend XP sales to large OEM's without telling anyone that it was a change in policy or time.

I end up in tech groups because I am a Power User - and I have went through every iteration of Windows since 2.0 (managed to miss 1.0 which was basically a clock).

95 people stood in line for. Later editions of Windows just basically come pre-installed. Just no line standing needed. It s supposed to offer an increase in security. How?

I do not even rely on security products as always something will find a weakness. I rely on Norton Ghost. I create a base operating system and Ghost it. If something attacks my system - I just Ghost the C: drive and start over.

Maybe this is better (meaning Vista) - but NT4 which captured my heart from 95 days - was also supposed to be. A dedicated hacker can get through anything defense.

My own operating system - and again I am just a person of one - is to use virtualization software. The main daily system is always available via Ghost - with an absolute minimum system available.

Using Microst VPC I create virtual computers and let them only share other virtual computers. It may sound strange for a single user to go to just lengths. But when I first migrated to Windows 95 from Win 3.1 - it was the first time I had owned a modem.

I downloaded a file from a Bulletin Board Service (BBS) and tried to run it - It ran for a second and then a Skull and Cross Bones appeared on my screen with a message I had better know how to fix the problem or my computer would never work again.

After many repeated attempts for information - I got the computer running again - and ever since I have been security conscience.

My present configuration keeps my computer safe and would keep pretty much everyone safe if folks have time to overview - but to rely on Vista for improved security is not really even an option.

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