The Vista SP1 RTM Question
 Joe Wilcox
News Commentary. My Linux-Watch colleague Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols asks: "Just how stupid does Microsoft think we are?" Not so dumb as he thinks. |
SJVN asked the question with respect to Windows Vista Service Pack 1, which released to manufacturing on Monday. He contends that there is no RTM, because the software won't be available for about another month. "Maybe it's just me, but mid-March doesn't sound like Feb. 4 to me," he writes.
SJVN and I have had disagreements in the past, and I've taken contrary positions whenever there is one. Each rebuttal puts me in the awkward role of Microsoft defender. Once again, I must come to Microsoft's defense.
I'll concede that it is unusual for a service pack to be unavailable for a month or more after RTM. Microsoft is usually quite anxious to get the code out to customers—and there is particular incentive here because so many enterprises are holding back Vista deployments for SP1.
Let me get right to the big question: Did Vista SP1 RTM on Monday? If the code released to manufacturing is the same installed on new PCs, the answer is yes. The answer would be no if Microsoft changed the code after RTM.
SJVN's position is that Microsoft must be lying because Microsoft's reason for delaying SP1's release to the general population is nonsensical. In a Monday blog post, Mike Nash, corporate vice president of Windows Product management, identified driver problems as the reason for Microsoft holding back SP1 from public download.
SJVN snarks:
"Isn't that an interesting paragraph? The problem isn't really with Vista SP1, it's those darn driver installation routines. So, for you, our beloved customers, we're going to do something—we're not telling you what—to make Vista SP1 work right even with badly installed drivers."
If SJVN is right—that Microsoft is going "to make Vista SP1 work right"—then there is no RTM, because the code would change.
So, early this afternoon, I asked Microsoft for clarification about the code and whether or not it would change. Microsoft's PR agency sent back a fairly detailed response attributed to David Zipkin, a Windows Client senior product manager. He and I spoke on Monday afternoon about Service Pack 1.
"This is an RTM, because we did release the code to manufacturing and sent it to the OEMs," according to the Zipkin statement.
In response to my question about whether the code would change between Feb. 4 and mid-March release: "No. The version we are releasing to OEMs...is the same version we plan to release on Windows Update in the future," Zipkin responded.
There is a little wiggle room in the response because of "plan." While "no" sounds definitive, "plan" leaves open the possibility of change. If Microsoft were to change the code, I'm sure there would be some blah, blah, blahing about customer experience taking precedence over little details like RTM.
That said, SJVN's commentary probably gives Microsoft great incentive to keep the code from changing. His other Slashdotted Linux-loving, Windows-whipping commentaries must have irked lots of Microsoft folks. Surely, they would like to make him squirm a little, to be proven absolutely wrong in his SP1 attack.
So, if the code really isn't changing, why the heck is Microsoft holding back SP1? The answer requires first a look at the problem. During the SP1 update process, hardware drivers are reinstalled, according to Zipkin.
"These drivers don't fully support a reinstall interface that has been present since XP," he explained. "While they function correctly, they do not successfully reinstall during the SP1 update process." He emphasized that the drivers will work right if manually reinstalled, but it's not the kind of experience Microsoft wants customers to have with Vista SP1.
Microsoft's position is that only a small number of drivers are affected, but there hasn't been clear identification of which drivers or from what categories. "We expect that most of these PCs will not experience this issue," Zipkin explained. I wonder: How many is "most?"
There remain two questions: If there's a driver installation problem, why did Microsoft release SP1 to OEMs? How will Microsoft use the extra time between RTM and public availability to remedy the driver installation problem?
Apparently, the driver installation—or perhaps reinstallation—issue only affects systems to which the service pack is applied. "This [problem] will not affect new PCs with Windows Vista SP1, because these PCs already have SP1 installed," Zipkin explained.
As for how Microsoft plans to fix the problem:
- Provide hardware manufacturers with guidance about writing their drivers so that the SP1 upgrade process will go smoothly. I am skeptical about this process. Hardware manufacturers got plenty of guidance during WinHEC 2006 and 2007. If they haven't written the device drivers right for Vista already, what's going to change in a month? That said, Microsoft should try.
- Microsoft plans to get updated drivers out to customers through Windows Update before SP1 is publicly available. That's a great approach, assuming hardware manufacturers fix those pesky drivers in time.
- "Ensure that new PCs from PC manufacturers begin shipping with SP1 preinstalled as soon as possible," Zipkin explained. That's a wonderful approach for the future, but it doesn't really address the update process for existing Vista users.
I suspect that the problem is perhaps bigger than Microsoft suggests or there is increased sensitivity about Vista perception problems. I suggest the former, because "most" PCs won't exhibit the problem, according to Zipkin. Considering the urgency to move along enterprise Vista deployments, why delay SP1 if "most PCs" are going to be OK? I suggest the latter, because Vista has huge perception problems. Microsoft doesn't need more bloggers ragging on how bad is Vista because of driver failures after updating to SP1.
Zipkin has a different position, and one easy for cynical journalists to reject: "We are working to make sure that when we release SP1, our customers have a great experience." Shouldn't the customer experience be the priority? In my testing, most bad Windows Vista experiences come from application or driver incompatibilities rather than something wrong with the operating system. From that perspective, Microsoft should be commended for trying to improve the Vista experience. Surely, that's worth the wait?
Related Posts:
- What's Good About Vista SP1, Microsoft Watch, Feb. 4, 2008
- Microsoft Sort Of Releases Vista SP1, Microsoft Watch, Feb. 4, 2008
- Vista SP1: Do Ya Feel Lucky, Punk?, Microsoft Watch, Jan. 11, 2008
- Windows Vista SP1 RC1 Released, Microsoft Watch, Dec 5, 2007
- There Is a Good Reason to Get Vista SP1, Microsoft Watch, Dec. 4, 2007
- Windows XP Closes In on SP3, Microsoft Watch, Dec. 4, 2007
- Thirty-Six Updates Later—and Counting, Microsoft Watch, Nov. 27, 2007
- What Is the Vista Experience?, Microsoft Watch, Nov. 14, 2007
- Vista's Consumer Rocket Ride to the Enterprise, Microsoft Watch, Nov. 8, 2007
- What Windows Vista Does for Me, Microsoft Watch, Sept. 14, 2007
- Windows Updates' Perception Problem, Microsoft Watch, Sept. 13, 2007
- Vista SP1: To Wait, Or Not?, Microsoft Watch, Aug. 29, 2007
- Yes, Virginia, There is a Vista SP1, Microsoft Watch, Aug. 29, 2007
- Microsoft: No Rush to Vista SP1, Microsoft Watch, July 19, 2007
Comments (19)
Maybe, just "maybe" they have to wait till after VCSY and Microsoft go before the Judge with the court appointed Mediator on March 7th. Ha!
Posted by I-Man | February 7, 2008 4:31 PM
I can understand them not wanting to put it on Windows Update where it will get pushed out to unsuspecting users, but them not making it available for download SOMEWHERE is a headscratcher, especially if they're going to send out a press release that it's RTM. There are a good number of people who understand the driver situation and know the risks/workarounds when installing the service pack, but even those people now have to deal with MS' misplaced sense of user experience
Posted by Keith Patrick | February 7, 2008 4:43 PM
Apparently, they will also modify Windows Update to check for these bad drivers and to Prevent/Warn users who have these drivers from installing SP1.
Posted by AEB | February 7, 2008 5:08 PM
Joe;
Thanks for researching this out and trying to get down to the "real deal" and dispelling SVJN's FUD on the matter.
Nothing beats good journalism, especially going the extra mile and gathering the so-called facts. It used to be one of the same, synonymous: Journalism and fact finding.
Nonetheless, that isn't the way it is these days. I certainly do not believe Microsoft has ever been forethright in most anything that they have ever done. They can't -- Impossible!
The media whores, and spin-doctors at Redmond could honestly tell the absolute truth even at the point of a large caliber gun. Though the thought brings a brilliant ray of humor.
If Ballmer and his buddy, William "Sure, I'll Step Down..." Gates wanted to do the right thing, why don't they flippin' quit the foolhardy notion of buying Yahoo and send that money back as a refund for anyone who purchased a new machine with Vista on it, and also use some of the money in REALLY fixing Vista in the first place?
The truth is, least IMHO is that is the purpose of MS Windows Seven. Yes, I agree with others that the biggest threat to Vista is XP and Vista is nothing (much) more than a dismal fact that Microsoft's real talent left the building a while back.
Should Bill Gates step down? That'll be the day. Anyone wanting to spend 44 Billion to buy Yahoo is a lunatic. No, spend the money in buying real help with real technical savvy -- Outsourcing is an excuse and is failing, educate and hire Americans, put your financial resources to good use Bill -- Put it into schools and educational institutes at least!
Posted by Douglas S. Taylor | February 7, 2008 5:14 PM
Back off. You don't have to dissect and analyze every statement that comes out of Redmond.
Engage yourself in some constructive work.
Posted by RSP | February 7, 2008 6:15 PM
Perception problem. Yes, that idea gets my vote.
We all perceive that the clumsy Microsoft-Yahoo mating dance is little more than mutual foot shooting.
We all perceive that Microsoft's buggy Genuine Advntage concept is customer hostile.
We all perceive that Microsoft is listing to starboard and nobody there knows what to do about it.
We all perceive that Microsoft went to bed with Hollywood over DRM, and now they've woke up with a rash.
Posted by mgo | February 7, 2008 6:51 PM
@RSP
This is Microsoft-Watch. meaning that the staff watches the latest (scams) developments (ploys) and (Bullsh*t) initiatives from Redmond.
Also you're "Back off..." threat is just that, are you planning to "cap" someone if they don't shut up?
Mindless bullies and trolls always gets theirs in the end. Yes you could wake up and find a "Horse's Ass" (those clinging to VCSY and I-Man's stock) with them in bed in the morning...
Posted by Douglas S. Taylor | February 7, 2008 7:26 PM
When will Dimdows get a decent package-management system? You know, something that will keep track of the versions of things you have installed, and the dependencies between them.
For gosh sakes, Linux systems have been able to manage this sort of thing for the last fifteen years. So it's hardly rocket science, is it?
When was the last time you heard of a Linux system having, or even needing, a "service pack"? Doesn't happen. Instead, you just install package updates as they come out. And packages don't inadvertently interfere with one another--that's what the dependency-handling system ensures.
And yet with Dimdows we have this convoluted, rickety Dimdows Update system, WSUS, and all the rest of the rigmarole, with special tools that you have to install just to control things like the automatic IE7 rollout, and these "service packs", and all the rest of that nonsense.
Job security for the Dimdows veterans, perhaps?
Posted by Lawrence D'Oliveiro | February 7, 2008 8:58 PM
Question: Does Steven Wiggley-Piggly understand the concept of manufacturing? OEMs need lots of time to test a new operating system with all the crap they pre-load on their hardware. And retail version manufacturing plants in the Far East need a long lead because it takes a forever for those slow freighters to cross the world's oceans.
None of this happens with Linux because all Linux software is ethereal and almost none is preinstalled on any hardware.
Posted by roger | February 7, 2008 10:57 PM
Question:
If the problem delaying SP1 is the update process and driver "reinstallation", why can't MicroSoft release a "Vista With SP1" installation CD/DVD right now - on a new installation, what can go wrong ?
Posted by Per-Eric | February 8, 2008 1:05 AM
Dear I-Man
I say this with no respect and utmost sincerity - fuck-off & take your VCSY shares with you into your grave SOB.
Oh - I forgot - you believe that there is actually people on this site that buys your BS...
Posted by Enough Already | February 8, 2008 2:28 AM
I-Man;
I just came back from your mother's house, and I know it's late and you might be in bed already since you got to get up and go to school in the morning, and say hi to your pop's for me. I'll see him at work anyway.
After I tucked your mother to bed, and somewhere around the time her face was sticking to her bed sheets, yeah we were having a little fun and since your will be a senior next year, you should understand that your mom and I have been, well, having a lot of fun VCSY style if you know what I mean.
It all started out at the bar, the same one that your dad first met your mother, it was right after the 7th fleet was in town and left. Your mother was so tired after working through all of that and all that she had to show for it was some defunked VCSY stock.
Anyway, sorry, I get so nostalgic these days...
While I was slamming your mom, I mean slamming a few shots, someone came up at said, "Hey are you that retard's mom that has been ranting on Joe's site for months now on the VCSY crap?!?!?"
She barely got her head up from under the table in time to see who it was. I didn't really pay any attention, I was distracted. Your mother has certain talents as you have no doubt heard about.
She was plenty mad, and I want you to know this VCSY ranting of yours is brining a lot of frustration down on your family, and after all, your momma has to, well, still work.
So consider your working mom before you rant your crap again or someone might really make it hard on dear old mom.
Besides, she is still quite the little tack to hammer if you know what I mean...
Posted by Hey I-Man | February 8, 2008 3:47 AM
This is the problem of most advocates of the linux/Open source camp. They are occupied (winning and crying most of the times) with what Microsoft is doing, instead focusing on improving their products.
Posted by evank | February 8, 2008 6:16 AM
evank Says :
"They are occupied (winning and crying most of the times) with what Microsoft is doing, instead focusing on improving their products."
@evank :
Di-worse-ifying: Microsoft losing focus
"Microsoft has jumped into several new arenas - including video gaming, Web searches, online ad sales and Internet news aggregation - that have added more than $6 billion a year to its revenues. Though it is gaining market share in some of those tech-industry sectors, some analysts say Microsoft has taken its eyes off core competencies that generate nearly all of the company's net profit: far less flashy servers, Office software and the Windows operating system.
"Part of the problem is that Microsoft is this nerdy kid who is really bright, really analytical and trying to act cool but not succeeding at it," said Michael Gartenberg, vice president and research director with Jupiter Research in New York."
Posted by n0neXn0ne | February 8, 2008 7:38 AM
roger Says :
"...Linux software is ethereal and almost none is preinstalled on any hardware."
@roger :
Portable Linux on a Stick
"We sell USB devices with Linux pre-installed. With a Qemu Linux Launcher, all you do is plug it into any computer running Windows (Windows 98 and up), click an icon, and your Windows desktop will also pose as your Linux desktop, then once you're done playing with Linux, you can switch back to Windows, all without a single reboot!"
Posted by n0neXn0ne | February 8, 2008 7:50 AM
I don't disagree they should resolve the driver issue, but why not resolve it before "rtm" in the first place?!
Posted by Mike Crowley | February 8, 2008 1:43 PM
Vista SP1 RC1 on the Streets - Happy Now?
Alright already, We have put out a release candidate for the Vista Service Pack 1!
Now let's see what the critics say!
I was getting pretty sick of them beating the old "Wait for SP1" drum. Soooo here ya go!
Download it here.
Some site named "Gizmodo" has already speed tested it vs Vista and XP on a dual quad-core Penryn HP xw8600 PC with workstation-class NVidia Quadro FX 4600 graphics, all eight processor cores running at 3.16GHz, a 15,000rpm SAS hard drive and 4GB of RAM. This machine is well within specs for Vista.
The **results speak for themselves:
Now! For goodness sake let the buying begin!
**Results only apply to Vista Ultimate run on any dual quad-core Penryn HP xw8600 PC with NVidia Quadro FX 4600, eight 3.16 ghz processor cores, 15,000rpm hd and 4GB of RAM - performance may degrade from there.
Posted by steve ballmer | February 10, 2008 1:27 AM
Just after I read the comments by Mr Ballmer, I got a notice that updates are available for downloading. 12 downloads later, everything is fine~! Took 30 minutes for 42.1MB of updates.
That's it.
Posted by Vernon Townsend | February 12, 2008 1:59 PM
Update.
After an hour or more of checking everything out on the laptop(Toshiba P205-S6267), NO PROBLEMS WHAT SO EVER. Nice clean install and, no issues with any of the features. It's as it should be, Even IE7 snaps forth with each request.
Posted by Vernon Townsend | February 12, 2008 3:29 PM