OK. Everyone save this URL, so you can see how quickly Joe starts to bash Azure. My bet is that in a couple of weeks he'll be lampooning it to no end.

Despite being what some call "an open source thickie" I do have an open mind. The statements that have been made, actually sound very interesting, and whatever happens I shall be paying close attention to them.

But weve had all these statements before, havent we? Lets just look back at some of the biggest MS ones from recent times:

Vista - Announced proudly that it was going to be the greatest thing ever, loads of MS staff excitement (or excrement, depending on your viewpoint), press photos and all manner of promotions. Then the user actually gets their hands on it, not quite the experience promised was it?

Next lets look at another MS innovation. The original Xbox (of which I was a proud owner) all sorts of statements made, but it never did knock the PS2 off top slot did it?

Then we move onto the Xbox 360 (which I proudly own), it had nearly a years head start on other next gen consoles. Yet so many of the units had to be returned because of faults that I read MS didnt make any money on it. Then Nintendo comes along and blows it out the water, with inferior specs and simple playable games of the WII
When people talk about the great MS visions of the future, let us not forget that their 360 was backing HDdvd instead of blueray, as they were convinced it was the way of the future. We all know how that turned out dont we?
The MS press releases sound really great, but from experience, I wont believe it until I see it.

In regards to Jays comment, if MS produces a functional reliable Azure, then I dont think youll find Joe bashing it. Hell, you wont even find me bashing it. But even if it does turn out as good as its being pimped, it will have no impact on me whatsoever.

How much of the functionality will be available to users running non-Windows clients? How well will developers be able to work on non-Windows clients? Because it seems to me, in this day and age, that any company trying to tie the Web more tightly into its own proprietary ways of doing things is doomed to fail.

How much of the functionality will be available to users running non-Windows clients? How well will developers be able to work on non-Windows clients? Because it seems to me, in this day and age, that any company trying to tie the Web more tightly into its own proprietary ways of doing things is doomed to fail.

Just like the IBM/Lotus Solution - only smaller...

Oh and IBM aren't pushing their own hardware. Theirs is multi-platform and has been around a lot longer.

azure |ˈa zh ər|
adjective
bright blue in color, like a cloudless sky : white beaches surrounded by azure seas.
• Heraldry blue : [ postpositive ] a saltire azure.
noun
1 a bright blue color.
• poetic/literary the clear sky.

So, an azure sky would be cloudless!!! Perhaps the geniuses in the marketing department should purchase a decent dictionary.

Let's see longhorn becomes vista, and vista becomes seven. MSN becomes windows live, and Strada, becomes azure, at least that is the name for this week. And plays for sure Microsoft music download site becomes, well, nothing, as Microsoft shut off the servers for it?

So you want all of us flunkies out here to use Microsoft azure, which is just more net/silverlight bloatware, to be run on top of Vista R2 (Seven), correct? So now, Microsoft can load up some, all, or part of out data and programs on their data centers? At least until "our data/programs" go bye bye like all those who invested in buying protected music from Microsoft did. No thanks, not for me. Who out there would trust their data on a MS data center?

Its as P. T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

Mike,

I think that M$ is trying to suggest that there's more to cloud computing than just the "clouds." As such, clouds go hand in hand with the sky that sits behind. Also, from a marketing standpoint, the focus on the blue sky versus just the clouds makes more sense.

Man - Don't you guys have anything better to do with your lives?!? It just seems like you sit around waiting to complain about MS for any and all reasons. Why don't you take some of that energy and do something constructive with your lives (and for someone else's lives)?

It's such an old routine.

@Doesn't Matter:
Why? Let's see... VCSY owns the patents to doing anything innovative. SCOG owns the rights to Linux, and Microsoft owns all of the patents behind all non-Microsoft software.

Until I can put together the US $300 trillion to pay off these good-hearted folks, I have nothing innovative to legally contribute.. but one complaint after another. Nobody seems to claim patents on bitchin' and moanin'. So there!

:-)

Goblin says :

"Despite being what some call "an open source thickie" I do have an open mind."
----------------------------------------------------
Ok, maybe you do have. Marco and I have seen a lot of those like Doctor Doug who at first went one way, and then turned. Micro$oft has many many tricks so it seems. Using Linux over Windows is a no brainer. Using almost, anything over running windows on the internet is preferable, unless you like malware infested computers, meaning your malware infested computer, windo$e user.

So you a XBox360 user? Sad. Not that it does not have some good games, not that Micro$oft has not been forced into cutting the price so drastically, that it competes. It fact, MS has overall lost money on the XBox360 and has dumped the product below cost, just to sell the dog. And what is dogging the 360? Price, no. Games, no. How about reliability, yes. Failure rate not just above the norm, but STRADA, in the CLOUDS, above the normal. Sorry, I could not help but use some of their MS PR (complete Bullshit) magic discussing the failure rate. Consumer groups, courts, and governments around the world, should be homing in on Microsoft central at Redmond and demanding proper massive refunds for all 360 users who have bought this piece of poorly designed junk. Strangely enough, the software end of it was not that bad. Oddly enough, since this is where MS usually has most of the problems, and then there is Vista. LOL (note, buy Sony playstation or even Wii first, never 360)

See Goblin, this is where Andre, Niel and all the other MS Shills/fanbois fail. Cause I will never give up, and stop telling the truth about them and the evil company they work from. Not because I am "an open source thickie," as you describe yourself. Yes I use Linux, because its a superior OS that is almost, if not completely free, if used properly, of malware on the internet. Its stable, beyond anything MS has or possible, will ever make. And its free.

But I was, basically a Windows user, until Niel and Andre decided to gang up on me a long time ago. They were the ones that pushed me over, from a 50% use of Linux/windows to almost if not alltogeather, entirely using Linux. Since I clean out Windows malware as an income, I have to use Windows sometimes a lot for that.

While I do see the reason behind Richard Stallman that software should be free. I also see that we should not have to pay for the wheel (or software) being re-invented constantly. This is another point that I draw the line with what Microsoft is up to, constantly raping computer users with old slightly reworked code, and renaming it. The names were changed to protect the guilty, Mirco$oft.
--------------------------------------------------
@Goblin:
as far as Joe Wilcox: you Goblin said:
"In regards to Jays comment, if MS produces a functional reliable Azure, then I don't think you'll find Joe bashing it."
--------------------------------------------------
You know, Joe Willcox has to make a living for his family, lets not begrudge him that. In that regards, he has bosses and has to tow the line. Sometimes, if you turn off Firefox adblock, you find out who is the number one advertiser here. Yep, the evil one. Micro$oft, the employer of Andre de Costa. They are not always on the top, but Linux has no money to advertise. So Joe needs to be reminded once in awhile, and this site, when they have gone over the edge, and have acted like the surrogates of Bill Gates, that they have become at times. Otherwise, you will not get one of Joe's really brilliant writings which only happens rarely now. Notice that Joe and Andre like to talk about the richness. But that could be because of how its so easy to copy and paste from Microsoft. MS has a fondness for the word "richness." Its what they, MS, Bill Gates and his cronies, have been stealing from us users for many years, our money, our "richness."

Do your self a favor, get off the next constant 2 year Windows and Office upgrade cycle tredmill, and get the M$ Monkey Boy off your back. Its simple, go to www.distrowatch.com and download a free iso of a linux distro from the right hand side.

Chips recommends Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Mint, and Sidux. Billy G and Steve Monkey Boy Ballmer, have enough of your money to spend in this lifetime, and in about the next million or billion lifetimes.

"if MS produces a functional reliable Azure"......

Oh come on, what is this, of course it will be just more proprietary lock in from MSFT that we will are talking here. You will be assimilated, the Borg, they will own all your data and all your programs, you will be at their whim. And why not, its not even stored on your computer hard drive dummy, but on their web data center. Beware!

Look before you leap on the Azure cloud, it most likely will be vaporware, and not really exsist. But if it does, it will own you, and it will eat you alive, all your profits, belong to MicroShaft!

Most likely, Joe is at PDC or wherever Windows Seven Pre-Beta (ok, lets just call it what it is, an Alpha please) is being handed out. He gets to hobnob with the big ones, maybe even Bill Gates. That ought to make him feel real special, and beholdened to MSFT.

But still, Joe Willcox, thinks in the past, when MSFT trust called all the plays, before they started to lose it with Vista. Before Bill became senile and retired. Before the Ballmer guy took over, and started to run the company major into the ground. Ballmer only cares about the numbers, he is a bottom line guy, an bean counter. Look around Joe, its happening, look at Mac, its taking over, you know its true. So what if Mac is only gaining mega ground in the USA? Thats all the counts for the money isn't it? The money has never been in overseas market, that is where cheap is, that is where netbooks are, and Mac is not.

Doesn't Matter said "Man - Don't you guys have anything better to do with your lives?!?"

Dont you have anything better to do with yours? At least we have a purpose to posting here. Your comments are falling on deaf ears and Id say my posts are more productive than yours.

@Chips
Thanks for your input on the 360, it was very interesting reading. Rightly or wrongly my family gets alot of enjoyment from the system, and since Im a user of open source software on the home PC, I believe it proves I have a balanced view (after all if I was anti-MS because of simply hating MS, then I wouldnt have it)
Whilst (as per my previous posts) I would recommend anyone try alternatives before choosing any software, if MS had released decent software then the fact that it was proprietary would not be as important as long as the end user was happy with the product.
Funnily enough about what you said in regards to buying WII or PS3, this xmas, one of our kids wants a WII and it will replace the 360 under our family tv.

@The Hand
When I stated about not bashing MS if Azure is functional and reliable, I meant that. Not for one minute though would I be considering it on my machine though. I think that open source supporters like myself are "in the right" however I sometimes feel that our message is lost a little when we are making comments about MS. Just because MS supplies proprietary, if it was to release a decent piece of software I wouldnt "knock it" (I certainly wouldnt use it either though)
As I say before, for me software freedom is about freedom of choice. No matter how many users move to Linux/Mac, there will always be customers, who for many reasons want to stay with MS. For me, the open source campaign is one to highlight peoples freedom of choice, not one to blatantly abuse MS if? and when? it does something positive.
Would I like to see MS with complete market dominance? Hell no! Would I ever run a Windows system again? Hell no! but with all the MS shilling and agents knocking around the web, I think its important that open source supporters keep their open mind and freedom of choice message clear, lest we appear as untrustworthy as an MS shill poster.
Speaking as a very happy open source supporter, I know that when someone compares Linux to Windows the choice for them is clear. Its just getting those MS users to come over and give Linux a go.
Regards all.
Goblin.

@Doesn't Matter.

What do you think? Why are all these open-source people (who swear they have no financial purpose to anything they do in open-source) posting on this forum... and others (they are around - just look).

What's becoming increasingly clear is the kind of technology Microsoft is showing this week is a world changing concept. Ozzie says this technology will become the preferred method for building software for the next 50 years. Original_Al says he doesn't believe in cloud computing... it's like the internet: a fad.

Who do you believe? And why would these people (who have no financial interest as goblin swears) spend so much time doing this? Goblin told you: he does more good posting than you do.

Code words. Good for whom?

I agree there are many Microsoft shills... and they have an obvious financial purpose for posting. They get paid by Microsoft or a Microsoft connected entity.

What makes the open-source shills any less financially interested? How does open-source keep their doors open if they have no financial interests? Altruism? Yeah. Sure. Hobbyists... eating egg salad sandwiches and drinking creek water.

Open-source has everything to lose as "cloud" (aka hive aka parallel aka cluster computing) technology reaches the world and they know it. Thus the frantic level of open-source shilling and shucking.

I still contend that this is a bad idea...even if it's technologically feasible. There is little enough privacy, enough data theft and plenty of security issues without relinquishing control of your corporate, personal, medical or other data.

Only a hardcore M$ fanboy (which I am not) would cheer this "development". I realize that Microsoft has never had a server crash or get hacked, but is this really how we want to save money? Realizing that science fiction tends to turn into science fact, would someone please stop and think of potential social ramifications based on real-world personalities and situations. Once that's done, ask yourself, "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?"

Hi there! Its our cherry picking Benton. Who has been a bit of a naughty boy this time (please dont tell lies about what Ive said). Lets look at his posts (and whilst he will never answer the questions I put to him, a per the previous threads, I will answer him, as long as he remains polite.)

Lets look at Benton post piece by piece.
He says "What's becoming increasingly clear is the kind of technology Microsoft is showing this week is a world changing concept"
and Benton, I would agree with you completely. However, what MS says its products will do and the actual reality are two different things. Dont believe me? Take any MS product press release and then look at what the users are saying.

Right, next up, Benton said "Goblin told you: he does more good posting than you do." I didnt say that Benton. If you are going to tell lies then at least make some effort for them to be convincing. All a reader has to do is read the post on this page to find out what I actually said. Benton, as far as Im aware a debate needs two sides (at least) to make it a debate instead of an agreement. Theres the proMS one and the proLinux one here. What did the user "whatever" contribute to the debate at hand (except suggest that people should be doing other things) - I cant see how that contributes. People have an opinion, if they dont care either way, why engage in the debate in the first place?

Benton says "Hobbyists... eating egg salad sandwiches and drinking creek water." and yet again proves that either a/he is so out of touch he isnt aware of the open source movement and its users or b/ he seeks to belittle the open source cause with a stereotype that certainly does not apply to me (or anyone else I know, MS fan or Linux one)

Yes the open source cause is a hobby for me. Benton would like to suggest that despite me saying so, I in some way benefit from people using open source on any platform, and Id respond to that by saying that I have posted about the MAC as an alternative to MS and I also support the Xbox 360. How can I have a financial interest in any one company when the ownership of products in my household is so diverse? I dont think everyone should switch to Linux, I think everyone should give it a go and see if they like it. Theres a whole world of difference Benton.

Now lets see if you, Benton will do me the same courtesy and answering some questions I would like to put to you.
Being a open source hater, what advantages does paying for MS office offer over free Open Office?
If Azure is to be the future, why is it that governments are now moving over to other systems? i.e in recent weeks, press releases from Russia, Naples, Brazil?
If MS has such a great vision of the future, why were they so monumentally wrong when they pushed the HDdvd format over blueray? Why were they that shortsighted?
CEO Steve comes across to me more like a desperate used car salesman, and the counter arguments of any MS supporter tend to be insults to the open source community rather than actual debate.

*EDIT* MY error.

User "whatever" should have read user"Doesn't Matter" Please forgive me, as some say we are "open source thickies" so I cant be blamed for my error.

Now wheres my egg salad sandwich?

@Goblin:
Re: "CEO Steve comes across to me more like a desperate used car salesman"

Haven't quite heard it put this way, but now that I think about it, I agree. With an emphasis on "desperate".

From:
www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html

It's a very good, well-reasoned view. A relevant excerpt:

"When you read of big companies filing patent suits against smaller ones, it's usually a big company on the way down, grasping at straws. For example, Unisys's attempts to enforce their patent on LZW compression. When you see a big company threatening patent suits, sell. When a company starts fighting over IP, it's a sign they've lost the real battle, for users.

A company that sues competitors for patent infringement is like a defender who has been beaten so thoroughly that he turns to plead with the referee. You don't do that if you can still reach the ball, even if you genuinely believe you've been fouled. So a company threatening patent suits is a company in trouble."

What you use to implement your platform with, is irrelavant to the consumer of your platform, as long as your exposed interface to the world is standards based. In that sense (which is the only sense) Azure is a standards based platform base on W3C XML web services, which Microsoft BTW helped more than any other firm to pioneer...

Lightweight clients are the future and the web is the platform, no need for a cloud. Look how linux vendor Mandriva recently added the brandnew LXDE to KDE and Gnome to serve the needs of their customers who aim for hardware performance and energie efficiency. GOS also makes uses of these LXDE components and looks like a great concept for full cloud integration. No one wants a complex desktop with rich applications anymore: XP and Mac OS X show the way because the cloud evolves without client revolutions and Vista messed it up performance wise. Now I listened that the next Win7 will support 1Ghz and 1GB devices... ghee! Netbooks become a huge desaster for Microsoft as you can't sell the bleeding edge Desktop technology. Microsoft will revamp Vista and improve it a bit but Win7 will make it even worse as more applications get the ribbon interface. In other words users will hate it and move towards cloud based applications instead. Microsoft is going to kill the desktop as we know it. What is Windows Azure? The .NET server side repackaged with an application platform and third party development model? Either it succeeds or the future will be based on open standards, the web ("cloud") as we know it. And you can use Win, MacOsX or a Linux flavour. The Desktop is mature. I wonder when Microsoft would find out.