Do You Care About IE 8?
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News Commentary. This morning, my editor asked why I hadn't blogged about Internet Explorer 8. My response: "Who cares?" Do you? Maybe we both should. |
For weeks, Microsoft has been dribbling out information about IE 8, which has to be released as a public beta this week to make the self-pronounced August release. The most recent IE 8 blog post discusses new privacy features.
In rereading the post, from yesterday, Aug. 25, I'm thinking that I should have cared more about IE 8. Ridiculous blogs have interpreted new IE 8 privacy features as "porn mode." That's a dramatic mischaracterization of privacy enhancements that are arguably trendsetting. IE 8 will give users more control over privacy than any other browser. It's not "porn mode" but something much bigger. After deciding to write this post, I IMed my editor: "Someone should send dunce caps to ... every other blogger using that term. Idiots." I wanted to say something else, but, hey, there's nothing private about instant messaging.
Simply put: IE 8 will let its users decide to whom they release information about their browsing habits. There are also security benefits to the new privacy features, which could be useful for limiting increasing malware risks posed by file-sharing or social networking sites. I'll be interested to see how the new privacy features work with parental controls, seeing as how IE 8 also could allow troublesome teens to better hide online activities from parents.
Internet Explorer has long had better privacy controls than competing browsers because it supports P3P, or Platform for Privacy Preferences. Because of P3P, IE has more granular control over first-party and third-party cookies and what users do about them. For years, I've used custom settings under IE's Privacy control to "block" third-party cookies and to "prompt" for first-party cookies. P3P support offers some opt-in, where the user can once and for all accept or reject all cookies from the originating site.
Firefox 3 improves the open-source browser's cookie controls with an option to "accept third-party cookies," which is on by default. The user can also specifically designate Web sites for which cookies are always accepted or rejected. It's a nice implementation, but IE 8 is set to greatly extend cookie control and how session data is handled. Microsoft is catching up on its early privacy lead and, in some respects, retaking it from Firefox.
Raiding the Cookie Jar
In yesterday's blog post, IE 8 Program Manager Andy Zeigler explained the new privacy features, but broader context comes from a Channel 9 video. The accompanying text asks: "When you navigate your browser to Website A is Website A the only site you're visiting?" That question and the answers to it explain Microsoft's philosophy behind the new privacy features, which are way broader than the "porn mode" label applied by so many bloggers.
In an IEBlog companion post to the most recent one, Dean Hachamovitch, Internet Explorer general manager, gives a wonderful explanation about third-party cookies. Microsoft is going after them, an approach that creates commercial risks that I'll explain later in this post. He writes:
When you browse to a first-party site, you know that it can collect information about how you use the site. What many users don't realize is that, technically, third-party sites can collect information about users as well. Users aren't typically well-informed about which third-party sites are collecting what information, how the sites use this information today, or how the sites could use the information in the future.
Something else—and it's the best reason for Microsoft to tighten up Internet Explorer's privacy controls: "The security risk here is plain," Dean writes. "Visiting one Web site exposes the user to potentially malicious content from other Web sites. The user visits one site and sees content on it that seems trustworthy (it's on the site!) but actually comes from a different source."
There's a reason why I block third-party cookies. "Most Web sites today are actually mosaics, or mashups, of several different sites," Dean writes. Yes. Yes. Content comes from multiple sources, and there is a whole lot of behavioral tracking going on.
I routinely use the IE privacy prompts to block known adware cookies, from domains like atdmt.com or doubleclick.com. But IE 6 and IE 7 opt-in capabilities are still limited. For example, an AOL or a Google (DoubleClick's new owner) could drop ad cookies off its main domain, once all cookies are accepted from the first-party site. Third-party blocking isn't necessarily enough; IE 8 offers a solution.
Privacy Matters
Perhaps some bloggers labeled IE 8's privacy features "porn mode" because of the privacy approach taken by other Web browsers. Firefox lets users easily "clear private data" from the Tools menu or automatically do so when the browser closes. The feature can whack browsing history, cookies, and cached files or images, among other data. Apple's Safari offers a "private browsing" feature that saves pretty much nothing from the session. "Private browsing" could easily be labeled "porn mode."
Andy's blog post identifies four new privacy settings: Delete Browsing History and three "InPrivate" settings—Browsing, Blocking and Subscriptions. InPrivate Browsing acts similarly to Safari's "Private Browsing." Nothing is permanently stored. Is that a "porn mode"? Not in the context in which Andy explains the feature: "If you are using a shared PC, a borrowed laptop from a friend or a public PC, sometimes you don't want other people to know where you've been on the Web."
InPrivate Browsing is an anonymous mode, for which there are plenty of uses where computers are public. But it's the feature in context of others which has me praising Microsoft's philosophic approach to privacy. I can't judge the implementation until after IE 8 Beta 1 is available for testing (It's technically Beta 2, but I called it one since it's first public release).
"InPrivate Blocking is a feature designed to help give you information about third-party content that has a line of sight into your Web browsing," Andy writes. He uses the example of two sites that use the same tracking script. The third party "is now in a position to know that you've been to both [sites]." He emphasized: "When you choose to browse with InPrivate, IE automatically blocks sites that have 'seen' you across more than 10 sites." I think 10 is too high a number, but there are more granular controls for manual blocking, which I would want to see before saying more.
Andy's post doesn't give enough information about InPrivate Subscriptions for me to adequately comment without testing. Delete Browsing History is a catch-up feature. IE 7 had a rough cut of the feature, but looks like IE 8 does it better. "This is a necessary tool that is a standard feature in all modern Web browsers," Andy writes.
Will Marketers Favor Firefox?
Marketers might take a different view of Internet Explorer's enhanced privacy support, because if used the features would block commonly used tracking mechanisms. By giving users more control over privacy, Microsoft risks alienating marketers, some of which are customers of the company's advertising services. IE 8 privacy features should block everybody's tracking mechanisms, so Microsoft's own ad services could suffer, too.
Maybe some marketers would encourage customers to use Firefox, which has less sophisticated privacy controls. If Mozilla comes out with any new Firefox ad campaigns, the time would be right to ask who's paying the bills.
Should you care about the new privacy controls? The answer perhaps depends on how you feel about this paragraph from Andy's IE 8 post:
Over time, the third-party can create a profile of which Websites you go to, what links you click on, etc. It's hard to know exactly how your data will be used and with whom it will be shared without reading and understanding the privacy policy of each third-party site providing content to the website you visit.
One of my editors believes that younger Web users accept privacy tradeoffs as the price of getting free services. Maybe, but companies that charge for services use the same kinds of tracking mechanisms. There is no tracking discrimination against free and fee—and perhaps people who pay give up more information by being identified for permanent account and payment purposes. At least Microsoft gives the user some choice about how much information is disclosed.
By the way, I'm watching for IE 8 Beta 2 to be released tomorrow night or Thursday morning. Microsoft is once again coordinating better with big tech reviewers, like Walt Mossberg and David Pogue. It's no coincidence, methinks, that Photosynth was released about the same time as the first reviews posted on Wall Street Journal and New York Times Web sites last week. IE 8 would be a good candidate for this week's writeups. Since these reviews are typically Thursday affairs, I expect IE 8 Beta 1 around the same time.
[Please send your tips or rumors to watchtips at live.com]
Comments (30)
No No No..
Microsoft seem so late comparing to Mozilla.. The development cycle is way too long and there's a whole lot of features that are missing. The web slices (or whatever they're calling it) can be offered by many firefox plugins which are still missing from IE.
Wake up Microsoft..
Posted by Amr | August 26, 2008 5:22 PM
I think its beta 2 they are releasing this week. I've been running it for some time. Only minor hiccups. Google Maps doesn't work at all. Slashdot.org often messes up. You need to switch on "Emulate IE7" or Windows Update thinks you are running IE4 for some reason and won't work. It messes up my preview Window in Outlook a bit due to font changes. But generally seems to work. Seems a bit slower than IE7 which is disappointing, especially given the speed improvements in Firefox and Safari with the new TraceMonkey and SquirrelFish Javascript engines.
Posted by smist08 | August 26, 2008 5:22 PM
smits08 is right as far as my own testing went. IE 8.0 seems very slow indeed and I too, find it very disapointing to say the least. I found myself constantly using the "Emulate IE 7.0" function entirely too much.
Posted by Douglas S. Taylor | August 26, 2008 6:10 PM
Good information, thanks.
I do IT in a small business where our Intranet clearly performs better with Firefox. However, I can't centrally control, or even monitor, that Firefox is current with patches. With IE, I get an e-mail every morning from WSUS letting me know that the Microsoft apps are patched on the client PCs. With Firefox, I never know.
So I'm hoping that IE8 offers enough performance enhancements that I can get rid of Firefox and sleep a little easier.
The new privacy features are definitely the frosting on the cake, but if there's no performance improvement, I'll be stuck with Firefox, and it won't matter.
Posted by DaveN | August 26, 2008 6:18 PM
Either cover IE8 or don't. But don't whine about it, which you are doing. We readers come for new and analysis, and don't care about your discussions with your editor.
Posted by IE Sux | August 26, 2008 7:11 PM
I think that IE 8 Beta 1 was/is more of a "new rendering engine" showcase than a real browser. As in: web developeres get ready, we're going to release a fully standards-mode browser so you better get your sites ready for it.
That's probably why it was clearly targeted at web developers and not the general public.
Posted by Carlos | August 26, 2008 7:17 PM
You've got an editor?!!
Posted by roger | August 26, 2008 7:25 PM
IE8's new privacy feature sounds like a Good Thing.
Posted by JohnJ | August 26, 2008 7:44 PM
You have to remember though that IE8 is the start of a bridge to a standards compliant browser from Microsoft which will break pages specifically "Hacked" to work in IE7 and below. There is the compatibility mode and due to this browsing in IE will be slower as it is running both modes. It is a little similar to quirks mode found in older versions.
However this is Microsoft's fault for releasing a browser that doesn't update often enough, IE6 was around for far too long and missed out on features that browsers like Safari and Opera had, let alone Firefox the second most used browser.
As happy as I am to see standards coming to IE (I'm a Firefox user and code all my pages adhering to standards), it is too little too late from a company that can write a full OS in 3 years, they can't write a fully functional compliant browser in 2-3, its pathetic.
Posted by James | August 27, 2008 2:51 AM
New Engine for IE8? I never knew that. I thought it was just an incremental improvement.
The two major issues with IE,
Standards - Pass ACID 2, how about getting a pass mark of 60 for ACID 3 as a start. Not that ACID3 is important. But some results just to show M$ care about Standard.
Performance - I hope they have at least double the performance of their Javascipt Engine. Even with that done they would still be trailing behind WebKit and Gecko. Not to mention the upcoming SquirrelFish and TraceMonkey.
And given M$ pass record, i think everyone should stop using IE just to boycott them and let them suffer the pain.
Posted by Ed | August 27, 2008 5:27 AM
lol
Posted by puppet | August 27, 2008 7:37 AM
Note that all the IE8 privacy features, and more, are available to any firefox user with extensions.
Posted by Diego | August 27, 2008 7:58 AM
Your initial reaction was correct. Who cares.
Posted by Jim | August 27, 2008 9:46 AM
Those interested in privacy and highly granular cookie controls have had a choice for years now - Opera has had these capabilities for quite some time, and is steadily refining them. But since no one in the media (except the security guys) tries Opera, and no one writes about it to any significant degree, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that it has no market share and is off the public radar. Opera hasn't been the source of every innovation in browsing, but it has had more than its share.
It is, when examined without plug-ins or add-ons, the most secure and private browser; when the broad plug-in support for Firefox is considered, the two are in a dead heat. IE itself may be private and somewhat secure, but its tight integration into the rest of the OS and its inability to stay inside its sandbox make it an ongoing risk.
Posted by TonyH | August 27, 2008 12:10 PM
I am not beholden to any specific technology. If IE 8 proves to be better and more secure than Firefox/Opera then I will use it. For now, I am going to take a wait-n-see approach.
Posted by JM | August 27, 2008 1:10 PM
I am Marco...
Posted by sam | August 27, 2008 1:57 PM
I have to agree with Carlos. It was a test for developers, like he said a "rendering engine". It was to test your website against the standards, not for the general public.
And WOW on the whole "porn mode" issue. Wow. I think someone got caught! :D
Posted by Dustin | August 27, 2008 2:54 PM
One of the main reasons I use FF, is that back button works good when you've blocked an ad site in the hosts file. In IE, clicking the back button tries to go back to the blocked URL.
Is this still a problem with IE8?
Posted by _dean | August 27, 2008 5:27 PM
Two points that need to be made here. Microsoft never gave a rat's ass about standards in Internet Exploder until Opera started the lawsuit/inquiry with the EU about the unfair business pratices and lack of standards of IE and MS. Then they flatly just totally did an about face and jumped on the standards for Internet Exploder the same week that happened. It is so easy to see though the motives behind the MS monopoly.
The biggest impact that IE8 will make, is when the finial version is delivered, then most likely Windows Seven will also be ready to be released as well.
Posted by chips | August 27, 2008 7:40 PM
MJ still gets under your skin, doesnt she?
Posted by Joe | August 27, 2008 7:55 PM
@Chips
More however, remember Microsoft was going to stop making new standalone versions of IE not too terribly long ago. If it were not for Opera and especially, Firefox, there wouldn't be now IE 6.0 and later standalone.
Yes, I agree, MS doesn't give a rat's ass about anything until its competitors really begin pushing them through better products such as FF.
Posted by Douglas S. Taylor | August 27, 2008 8:22 PM
You know, if it wasn't for VCSY, there would be no IE8. Good thing for Microsoft they settled with VCSY. Microsoft stole from VCSY in order to even get IE8 even to alpha code. Still not a believer? If not, I can copy-and-paste long drawn out boring drivel from my BFF portonumbnuts. If you are willing to take my word for it, I will spare you the copy-and-paste. ARE YOU READY FOR MORE?
Posted by I-Man | August 27, 2008 9:07 PM
Thanks for the detail on IE8, Joe.
I was disappointed you didn't mention that yes, Opera v9.5, has allowed for YEARS, cookie handling that you tout, block 3rd-party, prompt for 1st-pary cookies.
Let's all get real here. If somehow IE market share reverted back to 95%, do you think we would see any new features in IE ever again? Puh-lease.
That kind of lack of sincerity for users, should give everyone pause, any time you feel like using IE.
Posted by KT Opera | August 27, 2008 11:53 PM
@KT Opera;
I have a frustrated friend of mine who has been using Opera for several years. He says the same sort of things as you do.
I think it's ultimately the makers of Opera that is to blame, I mean as far as marketing goes. You think with the rich features and all that has been in the browser for some time now, there would of been, or should of been a bigger splash about it.
FireFox took off running it's little fury four legs off into really promoting their Mozilla based browser into competing against Microsoft's complacencies into further developing IE.
As I was saying to another person on this site, if it were not for FireFox, and probably, the rest of the non-IE browser makers out here, there wouldn't have been no IE 6.0 standalone, it would of just came with XP Home and Professional.
I personally use Firefox and I will admit, I never gave Opera a chance...
Posted by Douglas S. Taylor | August 28, 2008 8:30 PM
Microsoft has launched a new verson browser IE 8 (beta) with new ideas, and making comfort to Internet surfers. but comparing to Mozila's Firefox-3, Microsoft doing too late.
And here is the place i have found details about IE 8.
Thank u
Posted by sowmya | August 29, 2008 8:56 AM
Microsoft has launched a new verson browser IE 8 (beta) with new ideas, and making comfort to Internet surfers. but comparing to Mozila's Firefox-3, Microsoft doing too late.
And here is the place i have found details about IE 8.
Thank u
Posted by sowmya | August 29, 2008 9:00 AM
I've messed around with Opera a little, and it is ok. Maybe it's just my familiarity, but FireFox just works for me. It feels so simple to use and I can pick my favorite add-ons and keep the browser lean. FireFox 3 has just been smooth as silk, quick, nimble, perfect page rendering. I am sure Opera is a fine, probably excellent browser, but FireFox sure did something right, because it is all I have and have wanted to use since 1.5. And you have to love (and have) IETab add-on. Just only use it when you absolutely have no other choice. At least you won't have to open IE.
Posted by Tom B | August 29, 2008 2:06 PM
I've been using both for quite sometime. IE renders way slow and well need i say more. I use Firefox 3.0.1 because its blazing fast and customizable to my liking unlike any MS product.
In order for me to turn back to IE it would have to prove itself better, faster and more secure not by just a little but by leaps and bounds. Apple is quickly gaining popularilty as well as more and more people have decided they want to do it there way vs Bill Gates vision of his way.
Posted by Kirk | August 30, 2008 11:30 AM
Downloaded IE8 yesterday and have been using it side by side with FF 3.0.1. IE8 has worked very well so far. The overwhelming majority of sites I have brought up in it have worked flawlessly. Seems to be quick. Personally I love FF3 and it will remain my main browser. It is so customizable and I have it just the way I like it.
It\'s just my personal review, that after 24 hours, IE8 does not appear to be a bad browser, especially for a beta.
Posted by Len | August 30, 2008 4:46 PM
This is a notice to all commenters:
This afternoon I deleted some comments about VCSY, and I unpublished 22 comments believed to be from the Fake I-Man (based on the IP address). I have not removed comments from portuno as some commenters requested. I did remove links in some portuno comments pointing to blogs he wrote about VCSY.
There is no censorship at Microsoft Watch, but spam is deleted. The posts on VCSY are endless, and they should have stopped when the settlement was reached. Any future VCSY comments will be treated as spam and deleted. If they persist, the poster will be banned.
Douglas Taylor and Tom Berber asked for some respite from portuno. Again, I don't censor comments. If it were my choice--and it's not--there would be no anonymous commenting at Microsoft Watch. Douglas and Tom both identify themselves through links. Portuno does not. The weak often hide and from their secrecy attack those in the open.
Portuno is right when he says that I have his e-mail address. But that doesn't really identify who he is, although the information wasn't that hard for me to get. I strongly suggest that portuno clearly identify himself and his associations if he wants to attack the integrity of others.
As for the others, like Douglas and Tom, don't let portuno's insinuations and accusations bother you. He's looking for reaction, methinks. Why feed his need to bleed you?
I found the VCSY posts to be mildly assuming and somewhat annoying. I watched the banter with other commenters and portuno, who clearly sought reaction. Neither he nor either of the I-Mans is getting a reaction from me. I've stepped in because plenty enough time has passed since the VCSY settlement and enough regular commenters have requested action for me to do something. So I'm taking action and will step in again and again until all this nonsense stops.
I am posting this comment on the 10 most recent Microsoft Watch blog posts.
My thanks to all the regular commenters,
Joe
Posted by Joe | September 4, 2008 4:24 PM