Google tells users to drop IE6

http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-40785-140.html

Quote from the link: "Taking a page out of Apple’s book, Google is now urging Gmail users to drop Internet Explorer 6 (IE6) in favor of Firefox or Chrome that, according to the company, run the popular web-based email service "twice as fast." Google also labels IE6 as an unsupported browser, meaning it fails to run some Gmail features."
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There is a lot of Gmail users out there, so that might speed the abandonment of IE to some degree.

The move from IE (IMO) and certainly on the domestic front, I believe is the start of a move to more alternatives in general. I think this is why MS is so keen to keep "flogging the dead horse"
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Ive seen the progression myself:
IE-Firefox
MSoffice - OO/Abiword
Windows - Linux (not always though)
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I believe this is why MS cannot give up IE battle (forgetting for a minute how it would look if they did)
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For the home market, the PC is not seen (IMO) as an all encompassing entertainment platform (and I dont think it ever was) The consoles have that mainstream market pretty much wrapped up, and the idea of playing games on a home PC is becomming less and less appealing in the wake of the consoles.
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I think for the home user, one of the major selling points of Windows with a new machine was the issue of the latest games, consoles were traditionally behind the PC in terms of tech specs in games, but now with the ease of use and the penetration of online gaming in the console world, I believe the PC is becoming more and more of a machine to be productive on, not one to play games on.
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How many people (home users) actually require anything that MS has specifically? FF for IE, OO instead of MSoffice etc etc.
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IMO IE will never go away, it will always be around, it will always have claims made about it, and whilst some people refuse to comment on its issues, others will be shifting away from it.
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Having said that in my personal experience I think Opera is awful, and the browser market is flooded, with software that is good, bad and godawful. Even the fabled FF is (IMO) getting bigger by the minute, and its memory footprint is far bigger now than ever before (and I dont use plugins) and it highlights my opinion that the last thing Linux needs is mass migration to its platform, lest it becomes the bloatmonster Windows is.
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Ive always said (but never been believed) that I am fair to any system/software that provides functionality. When Joe said "Mobile. Internet Explorer is a simply godawful mobile browser." I have to disagree, forgetting WM in general (which was one experience Id rather forget) I actually go on with the browser ok and had no issues with it specifically (that was when the phone itself was not crashing/hanging or being obnoxious)
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Anyway, to anyone Ive yet to say this to, happy new year!

Reports like this still fail to take into account the corporate usage of IE. Until Safari and Firefox can be managed by Group Policy, they're going to be of limited value to a lot of companies like ours. IE may continue to lose some market share, but it's going to be substantial for a long time to come for that reason...

"Reports like this still fail to take into account the corporate usage of IE. Until Safari and Firefox can be managed by Group Policy, they're going to be of limited value to a lot of companies like ours. IE may continue to lose some market share, but it's going to be substantial for a long time to come for that reason..."
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Agreed, and to be fair, certainly in all the Windows based firms Ive had experience with, they all use IE, no ifs no buts.
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But I truly believe that the home market is far more important than MS (or maybe many people here think)
The home market is the "training ground" for the next generation of IT professionals. The home market is the training ground for many Uni courses (and the direction many uni courses take) and the home market has produced some of the most talented programmers/IT experts around. Imagine if say OpenOffice had got in before MS, do you think a proprietary office package would be viable today if it had?
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I think the packages that people "grow up with" and those that are used at home, do migrate into the business world in some shape or form, although thats more of a long term thing.
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I dont think IE will disappear overnight, nor do I think in the business world we will see a mass migration away from it, but to me (and at risk of repeating myself) it merely highlights MS as "Jack of all trades, master of none" and I personally think IE only adds to the bad PR that MS is currently experiencing.

@Nick.

Good point on group policy.

I also doubt those numbers correctly reflect corporate use. Corporate networks browse the internet through Proxies and NAT translation. What looks like one external IP address could actually represent thousands of PCs on a corporate LAN.

As far as IE mobile. Like Goblin said it ain't all that bad. I've used Opera and IE on my Samsung (which doesn't crash or hang btw.), and my only problem with either is that I hate browsing the internet on such a small screen. In fact I think that anyone who uses one of today's mobile devices for their primary internet source need's their head's examined.

And let's face it folks, even if IE mobile was the best thing since sliced bread it wouldn't stem the tide of people heading for iPhone shores.

Who would have thought Goblin using an MS package and NOT knocking it?
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The point about the Iphone is very true Nknow, although Im going to reserve judgement on the whole Iphone system since I dont own one, and am not sure how much of that market is buying into iphone because its "fashionable" not because its the greatest thing they have ever used.
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Will I go Iphone? Nope.
Will I go WM again? Nope.
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Im going down the route of a small functional simple phone and one of those sexy Linux Netbooks.
I dont care how great mobile phone browsing is, its size is restricting for me (i believe like you Nknow) and IMO really not worth the effort. A netbook is a good balance between a laptop and phone, IMO.

Re: Nick, Group Policy -- this sounds like a Microsoft proprietary thing anyway, which is never going to manage anything other than Microsoft-centric proprietary software. So devoting your company so slavishly to it seems like a bad strategy for the future.

If you want to control what sites your employees visit and what they do there, just set up proxy filtering. That's the open, standards-based way of doing it--works with all browsers and all sites, and you have a range of products to choose from for the proxy as well. No need to lock your company's future to Microsoft.

IE is insecure

Hackers Steal Millions From 7-Eleven ATMs
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,375484,00.html

"Hackers are targeting the ATM system's infrastructure, which is increasingly built on Microsoft Corp.'s Windows operating system and allows machines to be remotely diagnosed and repaired over the Internet."

@ Lawrence D'Oliveiro :

Yeah. Group policies are Proprietary.

And when you have several thousand computers running Windows on a corporate Network you'd better have a way to enforce a singular configuration on all of them.

This isn't a defense of Microsoft, and I'm not trying to get into a debate over who makes the best Lan management systems. This is a statement of what IS.

And group policy for Internet Explorer has little do do with controlling which sites user visit. You are correct in saying that proxies (and other web filtering) products are used for that. Group policy is about the administrator being able to control what the user can do with his/her settings. I can enforce a certain homepage for instance. I can control how Java and active x behave, or push out an IE plugin seamlessly. There are thousands of other settings to control or customize almost every element of the Windows corporate desktop dynamically through group policy. It's something M$ got right. (Don't know who they stole it from.)

Most large enterprises aren't going to just give that up.

@Goblin

Yeah. A Ubuntu loaded netbook is on my list of things to do this year. My phone is.... a phone. And a media player since I'd hate the Idea of running around with an IPod and a Cell. I tried that and it sucked. "Company blackberry, Personal Cell, Ipod" I felt like Batman without the utility belt and all the utilities.

@Nknow
Firstly you said " I can enforce a certain homepage for instance. I can control how Java and active x behave, or push out an IE plugin seamlessly. There are thousands of other settings to control or customize almost every element of the Windows corporate desktop dynamically through group policy. It's something M$ got right. (Don't know who they stole it from.)
Most large enterprises aren't going to just give that up."
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I completely agree with the points you make and thats certainly the feeling thats been given to me by companies who use it.
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Its funny when you said:
Quote Nknow "This isn't a defense of Microsoft, and I'm not trying to get into a debate over who makes the best Lan management systems. This is a statement of what IS."
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As your post really highlights the difference between someone with an honest held belief and someone with an agenda (a paid for shilling one)
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For everyone else notice how Nknow has not been challenged in a confrontational way or argued with? Notice how Nknow has not had an allegations thrown at him/her?
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This is because their post was obviously (IMO) one of experience and honest held belief. It was the type of post where it is a proper opinion and it is the type of post where you can debate and have a sensible discussion from.
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A little bit different to some of our other regulars here dont you think? and highlights what these comments should be for.

There is usually more than one way to skin a cat. By this I mean a good way to block users from sites, is a good host file on the server, and even on the users computers. Another way is the router itself.

I'm amazed now at the number of devices that can hook up to a home WiFi network and browser the net. Besides the PC which may or may not use IE, often there could be a PS3, Wii, PSP, iPhone Touch, WiFi SmartPhone, etc., etc. Once an affordable more general cell phone network becomes available this will really proliferate. The key point here is that besides the PC/XBox/Zune/WM, none of these use MS software and the number of these devices is increasing exponentially and all the innovation is coming from non-MS products.

Interestingly we've had IE security updates break Enterprise apps and the only workaround has to be use them via FireFox. IS may not like this, but MS leaves them no choice, since they don't have the budget to re-work their apps.

I guess Joe would prefer that NetApps publish their stats in double precision floating point.

I wonder what proportion of browsing is done on mobile platforms - Net Applications doesn't seem to collect the stats. I would guess that its pretty small (probably < 2%). Any suggestion that mobile is taking over from the desktop is probably more indicative that the writer has the attention span of a gnat than any market prescience he or she might have!

I'm currently doing some work for a large finance company to measure the effectiveness of their web sites. In Q409 the sites had a collective hit rate from non general purpose computer platforms (Windows/Mac/Linux/Sunos etc) of 0.0006221 percent - that's things like Blackberry, WinMobile, Wii, PSP etc.

IE dominance did matter to Microsoft, but it is way too late for that now (ie. the owning the gateway plan). That's probably why they are so lackluster with their recent releases.

HTML 5 will add a lot to the existing web and Microsoft should keep up or just get out of the game and use webkit.

If the desktop version does not matter any more then the mobile version sure does not. They would have to exceed Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome by a long way to get back any where near 90% share (and therefore control). Without total control of the web (like they had in the early 90's), then making a browser is just a waste of time.

Yes Joe, IE is a loser. It down to 69% share on the desktop, which is the important market. When even the mainstream media were telling people to switch to alternative browsers, back a few days ago with the exploit, then there is something very wrong with IE. Mostly, the people that use IE are those with the least intelligence with regards to computers. It IE comes with it on a new computer, so not everyone will go to the trouble of finding and downloading/installing something better. Bundling with even a terrible product like IE, is a powerful tool when you are a convicted monopoly, it seems.

Now heres a link from your old colleague Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, who used to host Linux Watch here. Not sure why he moved on from eWeek, but he did have the best blog here at that time. Somebody that actually knew something about Operating Systems, and was not bought and paid for, BTW. Not that maybe you are, but it sure seems like most bloggers that blog about MS are.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/the_google_linux_desktop_has_arrived

The Google Linux desktop has arrived

"Now, Matthaus Krzykowski and Daniel Hartmann, founders of the stealth startup Mobile-facts, have found that you can take Google's smartphone operating system, Android, and use it as a desktop operating system."
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So is Android the "Google OS." It would seem so. Will this be the OS that MS has always feared, or just another linux, that they also fear?

@David Andrews:

Joe does seem to want to "wish" the dominance of mobile device web surfing into being.

It's not there. and every time I look at the web on a phone and remember tabbed browsing and all the other neat little features in Firefox, or IE 8 Beta, or Chrome.... I think he's smoking the fumes off one of his motherboards. The best mobile platform for the Internet is still the Laptop. You know those devices with a screen that allows for REAL BROWSING?

And If I had to type this post with my thumbs I simply wouldn't bother. Or it would look like

OMGLMFAO @ JOE!!!!!!

Jesus Joe be careful what you wish for.

@NKnow
"Joe does seem to want to wish the dominance of mobile device web surfing into being."

I agree completely with your comment. My work phone has the ability to surf the web. I tried it out a bit when I first got the phone because it was fun and new. I haven't used it for surfing the internet at all in the past couple of weeks. This is nothing to do with the browser; it's to do with the size of the screen and the keyboard. I said this on a previous post regarding mobile internet but I'll say it again here: I'm going to keep using my laptop no matter how good mobile browsers can get.

A phone is great for some things but for others, you need a computer.

chips b malroy :
Yes Joe, IE is a loser. It down to 69% share on the desktop, which is the important market. When even the mainstream media were telling people to switch to alternative browsers, back a few days ago with the exploit, then there is something very wrong with IE. Mostly, the people that use IE are those with the least intelligence with regards to computers.

Mmm, the insults could be done away with! I use IE7 and FF, but actually I find IE7 works better for most of the things that I need a browser for. I am a programmer and have been involved with computers for 30 years and I certainly don't appreciate being classified amongst those with the least intelligence with regard to computers.

Quote Jess "it's to do with the size of the screen and the keyboard"
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Completely agree, and I think when the "novelty" wears off, mobile Internet users will either consider a netbook/laptop or not bother. (IMO)
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Ive said before, I am intending on having a basic, functional phone, no silly low megapixel camera, no fm radio, no internet facility or mp3 player built. Ill then have a netbook for all my surfing requirements, although for me, the size of a netbook is only JUST acceptable and I may even go the laptop route, if a good deal presents itself to me.

One of the other reasons people are slow to switch from IE6 to IE7... there are a tonne of illegal copies of windows out there and you can't upgrade to IE7 without a valid copy (or at least without grabbing one of the hacks out there that will do it).

Then there are those who just don't update their computers. My grandfather has had a computer for 6 years now and just got a new one. I went to go transfer everything over and he doesn't even have SP1 installed.

You know what really pisses me off is the idea that
DODOS ( a presently extinct huge pigeon from Mauritius in the Indian Ocean just east of the African continent ) is somehow related to the issues with Microsoft I.E. ( of any version ) indicates a total lack of education on the part of IDIOTS making claims about I.E. DODOS were exterminated by people whose decendents now claim to be some of the most well educated and GREEN people now available on our very small planet. IMHO, if their opinion holds any weight in our future, then we are heading in totally the WRONG direction especially if we intend to keep any REAL intelligence in the futures of any race, cread, or ethnic background. Anyone who would give I.E. an F- is not someone I would give much commentary on. But if the so-called ' teacher ' with the F- wants to, I can take him/her back to the REAL past concerning browsers and he/she will eat DIRT before I am done with them. I am not a Microsoft idiot, but I am a person who has incessantly worked on and fixed thousands of computers, and I will not allow LIES to be continually told. So come to me ' teacher who claims you have the ability or knowledge to give anyone or anything an F- ) and I will put you chopping cotton in the winter time and picking cotton in the spring time. Anyone that wants to comment to me personally ( hantoyo1@yahoo.com )

@Hanto
Er yeah. Thanks for that.
I will respond by saying one of three things has happened here:
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1. Youre translation software has picked up probably one of the nastiest bugs Ive ever seen
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2. You are of such awesome intellect that your ideas and theories are so far advanced of me, I cannot get my head around your post. So due to the fact I dont want to either chop or pick cotton, I wont challenge you.
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3. There is a distortion in the space-time Continuum
and by some astronomically improbable coincidence Microsoft watch is acting as a gateway to an alternative universe, allowing communication between the two realms. Just goes to show you how universal the appeal of Joes articles is. Whats next, commenters from Wolf 359?

Take it easy, Hanto, take it easy. Remember Christmas...New Year...happiness...
BTW, the Dodo (Raphus cucullatus) really was not directly exterminated by people (its meat was tough and tasted badly) but rather indirectly, since the impact over the ecosystem of alien animals (no..not the creatures from outer space) brought by sailors and natural disasters was the principal issue in the aforementioned extinction.
I mean the real cause was their low capacity to adapt and their poor competitiveness that really produced their debacle. Some similarity with IE?...
Here I clarify that I'm not defending anybody...I simply enjoyed the analogy.

Quote Marco "I mean the real cause was their low capacity to adapt and their poor competitiveness that really produced their debacle. Some similarity with IE?..."
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Do you think thats what he meant? Drawing a similarity between the two? What a bizzare post. I had been out for a lunchtime meal at our local restaurant and came back to read it. I thought maybe it was a combination of good food and a particularly nice French wine that was partially responsible for my lack of comprehension of the post.
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So it now begs the question, what on earth has that to do with cotton picking (except the threat of being made to do it?)
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Whilst Im sure if I thought about it for a while I may have some sympathy for the DODO, I dont think we can blame either Microsoft Shill posters and/or Open source supporters for its decline and I dont think (in whatever capacity) its relevant to post about on the Microsoft Watch site analogy or not.
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Marco, maybe this is a new angle for supporting Microsoft? Maybe they are teaming up with the WWF to produce a message that promotes MS software and endangered species at the same time?......with the alleged tactics of them in the past, I wouldnt be surprised.

That or some reminder of the second war.

@Hanto

Bravo!

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@David Loring

"I use IE7 and FF, but actually I find IE7 works better for most of the things that I need a browser for. I am a programmer and have been involved with computers for 30 years and I certainly don't appreciate being classified amongst those with the least intelligence with regard to computers."

I certainly do not think that you are an idiot by any means. I use IE 7.0 and NEVER had spyware or virus issues. I realize that IE and for that matter, Windows is a huge target for exploits, it all comes down to understanding these threats, safe Internet practices, strong anti-virus and anti-spyware technology -- Stay informed, stay updated and create a normal user account with no admin privileges and use the lesser account for your day to day activities especially on the Net.

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dawgbone :
"One of the other reasons people are slow to switch from IE6 to IE7... there are a tonne of illegal copies of windows out there and you can't upgrade to IE7 without a valid copy (or at least without grabbing one of the hacks out there that will do it)."

I have no remorse for thieves, they get what they deserve. Anyone thinking about downloading illegal software is a fool that should be kicked to the curb with any available trojan, virus, and malware possible.

The more I think about what David Loring said about feeling that people thinks he's stupid for using Windows, specifically IE 7.0, well I have some thoughts about those who believe that Linux is ready for the "Prime Time."

As someone who has used the Mac OS's from the Lisa all the way to Leopard, DOS all the way up to Vista, Ubuntu, Fedora, Red Hat, and the Darwin OS, I can tell you that Linux certainly isn't ready for prime time.

Now all of the Linux fans say that Windows users are mindless and can't use anything more complex are fooling themselves.

Some of the most brilliant folks easily switch from any OS at the drop of a dime. The problem is that most folks don't want to learn all that command line crap.

Thats so 1960's, W's, and W's. Isn't the point of evolving computing to make it to the mass market? If Mass Market is the ultimate goal, then Linux is going the wrong way about it and it's no wonder that for nearly two decades it still resides as a fridge desktop operating system.

No mainstream media file support is native in any version of Linux, without hunting down 3rd party applications.

Even the most recent Ubuntu build doesn't support a lot of the mainstream files that people enjoy on the Windows and the Apple side.

None of the deep seeded integration and polish that both Apple and Microsoft already offer for a nominal fee.

While many of you take pride in your participation in the Linux community and that is to be commended, many folks who are full time working parents, business owners, doctors, and others simply do not have the time for Linux.

If anything, you in the Linux community have got to work harder to bring the spit polish shine to Linux that Windows and Apple's OS'es already have.

The biggest problem with Linux is that its divided amonst several corporations and foundations.

Linus Torvalds has failed to be a truly galvanizing figure to focus Linux development.

He focuses on the Kernel but doesn't do anything about a unified front against Apple or Microsoft.

They don't market Linux on TV, Magazines, or Radio. They don't work together to create cohesion and unity. Linux Distros fight in court amonst themselves while Apple and Microsoft have a focus collective will.

It's this failure of Torvalds and the Linux community that will keep Apple and Microsoft on top.

For example. I had a friend working in a coffee shop. They set up 4 Linux machines. Not only did people shy away from these machines but they felt the system was too restrictive.

Eventually the coffee shop owner switched to XP machines and his business flourished. He made a killing on Internet access fees.

A second example in a more professional coffee shop still saw people shying away from Linux OSes. The rendering of the web browsers never worked right on many pages.

The systems would crash frequently. They were forced to switch to Windows to make it useful. While there were Mac users with their Macbooks, the Windows users outnumbered them. I saw one modified Linux notebook. It was the only one I ever saw.

I've been using Windows Vista since June 2007, and I've had 10 times more uptime than I ever did in Windows. I haven't suffered any system issues. Also, I've not suffered the same system degradation that you get with XP, 2000, 98, or 95.

If anything, I've figured out Vista's quirks and will go on record as saying its the best OS I've ever seen out of Microsoft. And before you jump on me for being some MS fan boy, I use Apple just as easily and as often.

I can use a Linux based OS. I own an iPod and frequent the iTunes Store. I have open source programs on my Vista machine running with Quicktime. So while I prefer Windows, I am very comfortable in any environment. As to new environments, I adapt pretty quickly.

Apple's machines have always been to high for middle class workers. Linux is hardly known outside the tech savvy. You may have differences with the company and Gates, but that's fair.

Regardless, We wouldn't be enjoying this very Windows/Apple/Linux world as much without Gates and Microsoft.

@Mephisto:

Worst drivel without any basis in fact I have ever seen. And where are your links used to prove anything you have to say. Why not support your opinion, not matter how bogus it is, with links? Simple, because you have none. You just another on the payroll of one of the Microsoft proxy agencies.

Simple fact is Vista is unloved, and a pile. People are seeing through the FUD of Microsoft and it agents like you. Its why Microsoft is losing market share at an alarming rate and will continue to do so.

Bottom line, sell Microsoft stock.

@sam

You fall distinctly into either of two groups:

1.) you fail to comprehend English
2.) you're a juvenile minded individual

This article I wrote above is based upon my experience.

Is this the best you can do? You are not an intellect, this is as plain as an ass on a goat. Your attempts to quill my views with the "Shill" tactic is a vile reflection of your limited understanding and mental processes.

Mephisto says:

"The more I think about what David Loring said about feeling that people thinks he's stupid for using Windows, specifically IE 7.0,"
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A couple of points here. What I said originally was:

"Mostly, the people that use IE are those with the least intelligence with regards to computers. It IE comes with it on a new computer, so not everyone will go to the trouble of finding and downloading/installing something better. Bundling with even a terrible product like IE, is a powerful tool when you are a convicted monopoly, it seems."

Perhaps you and Loring should both learn to read, as the first word is "mostly." What part of that word do you not understand?

ALSO, Mephisto, I have a question for you. Are you not the same Mike Brannigan who works for Microsoft and posts under that username?

http://vist4u.com/t23120.html
see third post down

Quote Mephisto "Now all of the Linux fans say that Windows users are mindless and can't use anything more complex are fooling themselves. "
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Absolute rubbish. Im a Linux "fan" and ive never said that, neither has anyone else here to my knowledge.
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Quote Mephisto "Some of the most brilliant folks easily switch from any OS at the drop of a dime. The problem is that most folks don't want to learn all that command line crap."
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Thanks for the compliment, and as much as I would like to believe what you said is true, Im not brilliant. A neighbours child (who is 13) managed to install and use Linux without issue. If you claim using one of the more user friendly distros such as Ubuntu requires use of the command line and learning "crap" then I dont believe you have ever used it. That or you are telling lies.
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There is so much more wrong with your post, and I could waste my time challenging it. However IMO you believe people stupid, this type of propaganda does not wash with people anymore. Sure, Linux does have issues, and the "average" user is most likely to experience printer related ones, however this is being worked on, and I think you will find its less of a problem.
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Well done Mephisto, youve produced a textbook message of half-truths which I will take great pleasure highlighting to others as to what to look out for.

Its all about the money with these MSFT Shills. How much FUD and just pure lies they can sling. Somehow I knew this guy was working or paid by MSFT somehow.

@ chips and Goblin;

Are you two guys paranoid?

I was editorally speaking of people across the web in general. Trust me, if I was referring to either of you, I would of easily directed my comments to the both of you as I did with everyone else.

Oh and Goblin, you are far from brilliant.

And to chips -- No, I am not that person, again the wretched and vile juvinille "Shrill" tactic with the paranoid community.

@Goblin:
Quoting Mephisto:
"Oh and Goblin, you are far from brilliant."

He is trying hard to avoid debating you by insulting you. Which proves several possibilities. That he knows "his brilliant facts" are all fake, and therefore cannot debate you. Would rather the debate entered an personal level, so emotion would rule the outcome, rather than readers using logic. Or third, perhaps he is the one less than "brilliant."

I actually going have to give credit to Mephisto, in that his posts were some of the most "brilliant" FUD I have ever seen. They even surpassed the best of Andre and Neil put together.

Maybe my question was wrong, about are you the same Mike Brannigan who works for Microsoft. It should have been: are you Mike Brannigan, or do you have some sort of relationship to Microsoft or are paid to blog by anyone. Not that I would expect an honest answer from anyone that is shilling for MS. LOL

@Goblin:
I think that Mike Brannigan is a Microsoft MVP, but I could be wrong.

Is there a pattern emerging with all the MVP's and shilling?

Its really quite a poor show that Mephisto could not see the sarcasm in my post(but then looking at the childish way some of his points are put across, I can understand why).
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The point of brilliance was completely wrong when refering to Linux, and only those who seek to distort the truth would consider Linux a platform for brilliant people.
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Or maybe where Mephisto lives it is? Maybe in Mephistos circle of friends Linux is actually above them, in which case I would gladly offer any help they required in getting it to work for them.
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I do enjoy it when people insult with personal remarks since it tells me that they have no more argument to come back with. I have had debates with people who disagree with me, yet unlike Mephisto, they do it in an adult way and its interesting and professional.
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I think the penny has dropped with Andre, and it will with Mephisto, they make the exposing of the flaws of their software so much easier when they post in this way, and just like certain regulars they act as a platform for more challenges to the proprietary products they are trying to push.
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@Chips - All these discussions are documented, linked to and passed on. I intend for as many people as possible to read these and make the judgement themselves. Over the past weeks we have seen a campaign of deception being played out on this site IMO with the intention to distort an alternatives viewpoint, even to the point where Joe himself had to step in. Maybe this is another campaign. It does really matter though, Linux lets the facts speak for themselves, we dont need to shill, or deceive in order to promote the system we support.

@Goblin;

I dine at your stupidity and self-deception of your false sense of grandeur. I obviously struck a nerve with my previous post about my experience with Linux -- All's you and chips can come up with is that I am some shill working for Microsoft. You sir (if you even a man) are an Idiot.

Is this the normal tactic that you trolls have on anyone who opposes your thoughts or challenges Linux?

Your obtuse speculations, and attack methods are nothing but standard routines on this blog. Mr. Joe Wilcox apparently caters to your types of characters and for that I can only conclude that he relishes and approves the actions of your useless and tiring rants.

Quote Mephisto "I dine at your stupidity and self-deception of your false sense of grandeur." - LOL, Never seen it put like that before. Thats good, and much as Id trust the opinions of a user who thinks Ubuntu is for "brilliant" people, Ill let the readers here be the judge of that.
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Quote Mephisto "I obviously struck a nerve with my previous post about my experience with Linux "
Yep, you sure did, IMO you posted lies, and ones that are easy to disprove. If anyone is remotely interested in who is correct between myself and Mephisto, Id recommend you go to one of the more user friendly distros (although not so for Mesphisto) and download a livecd. You can see for yourself then:
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu
Or if you cant download it, order a FREE CD (delivered free aswell, and try it for yourself, then come back here and tell me who is correct.)
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Quote "All's you and chips can come up with is that I am some shill working for Microsoft" - No its not, I never said that. If you are going to post here atleast stop telling lies.
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Quote "Is this the normal tactic that you trolls have on anyone who opposes your thoughts or challenges Linux?"
No its not, check back on my previous posts. Its my tactics when IMO people come here and aim to deceive.
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Its funny you mention trolling, since Joe Wilcox didnt delete any of my posts but he did delete those pro-MS ones that were attempting to decieve and cause confusion.
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Joe Wilcox has said Im welcome to post. If you think I am a troll, take it up with him and ask him to ban me.
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Quote Mephisto "Mr. Joe Wilcox apparently caters to your types of characters and for that I can only conclude that he relishes and approves the actions of your useless and tiring rants."
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So Mephisto, if what you say is correct, and your opinion is the "common one", why do you bother responding? Surely by doing so you are just creating more oportunities for us "Linux Losers" to post. Why would you encourage?
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I put it to you, the truth of the matter (and please check back on this) is that there are more people visiting this site who have seen the benefits of alternatives over Microsoft products. Thats why the pro-MS comments are so tiny in number. Microsoft Watch should be a site where "happy customers" post about their experiences. Since its very difficult to find a happy customer here and the majority of posters are either promoting better experiences with alternatives or highlighting more Microsoft issues. IMO Microsoft has a problem.
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I also find it amusing how your handle no longer links to Blizzard. For people that dont know, Mephisto linked to the Blizzard site whilst putting his "half truth" post about Linux. What Mephisto didnt know is that Blizzard products work very well through Wine and Linux, and infact the performance is better than that on native Windows (something which is well known amongst Blizzard/Wine users). An unfortunate link of the part of Mephisto, but one he seems to haved corrected now.
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Since you appear to be a supporter of MS products (and just so you cant allege anymore lies: I AM NOT SAYING IF I BELIEVE YOU ARE A SHILL OR NOT) I wonder if you will answer this question:
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Given that Microsoft received years of comments and feedback in relation to XP, do you believe Microsoft took all that on board and released Vista? Do you believe Vista represents the best of XP?
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Just yes or no Mephisto.
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My guess is you wont respond, or change the subject.

All this IE browser pounding and speculating is moot. At least 50% of the population that uses a PC and Windows aren't even aware of what a browser is. It is just the thing that they see the web in. They don't care to know there is "maybe" a better browser out there, they just use it.

I would be interested in what the percentages are at sites like Amazon or Wal-Mart and the likes.

I have them all and I prefer Opera and have since 2003...the added bonus to me is its "obscurity".

I may have IE on my computer at work and at home but I NEVER! use it and I actually refuse to use it ... Firefox hasn't let me down :) ... http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/