Windows Update: Skype Me
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Skype has identified the smoking gun that brought down the service last week: Windows Update. Say what? |
According to a post today by Villu Arak on the Skype Heartbeat blog:
"The disruption was triggered by a massive restart of our users' computers across the globe within a very short timeframe as they re-booted after receiving a routine set of patches through Windows Update. The high number of restarts affected Skype's network resources. This caused a flood of log-in requests, which, combined with the lack of peer-to-peer network resources, prompted a chain reaction that had a critical impact."
I hadn't realized that Microsoft had in Windows Update a weapon against peer-to-peer networks. Maybe record labels and movie studios should rejoice. If Windows Update can bring down Skype, what could all that massive rebooting do to P2P illegal file sharing networks?
The question is asked in jest. Arak acknowledged that the massive reboot triggered a "previously unseen software bug within the network resource allocation algorithm." Windows Update may have set off the outage, but the ultimate flaw lies with Skype.
Not So Super Nodes
Skype relies on supernodes—user computers acting as proxies for others—to maintain the network's data connectivity. If too many supernodes fall off the network too quickly, service integrity could collapse. Based on Arak's explanation, too many supernodes shut down while too many re-log-ins occurred. The re-log-ins overwhelmed the remaining supernodes, leading to a cascading failure.
At some point, a critical mass of supernodes failed, making a service restart nearly impossible. I wouldn't be surprised if the service only recovered after a critical mass of Skype users gave up their log-in attempts.
The real questions: Why then? Why now? Microsoft issues new patches every second Tuesday around 1 p.m. ET, which during Daylight Savings Time is 17:00 GMT. But the Skype outage occurred on Thursday. Also, Microsoft has used this second Tuesday schedule for about four years.
Windows' default automatic update time is daily at 3 a.m. local time. I've reset my computer to 8 p.m. When set to automatic mode, Windows Update checks for updates when the computer connects to the Internet. The user can then optionally install the updates, otherwise Windows will automatically do so at the scheduled time. Windows also can force installation when the computer is put to sleep or shut down.
At first glance, the math doesn't quite add up, getting from 3 a.m. local time on August 14 or 15 to a service failure on August 16. For example, 3 a.m. in Beijing comes two hours after Microsoft is supposed to release second-Tuesday updates. But the updates often aren't available everywhere at once. It's conceivable then that many computers in Asia would have started installing updates on the afternoon of August 15 in the United States. From there, it's not a stretch to see a service problem starting late on August 15, as would appear to be the case.
So, I buy the idea of Windows Update as the trigger—as computers rebooted or shut down across time zones for the installation of second-Tuesday updates. If enough supernodes shut down fast enough, service interruption would be inevitable. But why now, when Microsoft second-Tuesday updating is a longstanding practice? Skype doesn't offer any real explanation.
Off the Hook at a Bad Time
The timing is fortuitous for Microsoft, which is making a major push into unified communications, including voice over IP. Skype is used by some enterprises and probably by even more small businesses. Skype has been adding presence and call routing features that are reminiscent of some Microsoft Office Communicator capabilities. Microsoft and Skype are moving from opposite sides into the same business market segments.
Businesses depend on reliability—for smaller shops perhaps even more so because they might not have a backup option. Additionally, their small size magnifies the impact of any services outage. Microsoft has new versions of Office Communicator and Office Communications Server in the queue. Granted, these products cost a whole lot more than does Skype. But Microsoft can tout reliability.
For many businesses, reliability will matter more than cost. Skype's service problem is a Microsoft sales opportunity to generate some fear, uncertainty and doubt.
The outage also calls into question Skype's broader services architecture. Rather than rely on dedicated servers, Skype infrastructure depends on its users—particularly those designated as supernodes. What happens in the future should a worm spread across the Skype network, possibly one designed to choke IP traffic among supernodes? This outage reveals potential weakness that somebody is sure to try and exploit.
It's a good week for Microsoft to tout Office Communicator.
Comments (51)
Joe
This is an "old story" betanews covered this Thursday 17th and 18th.
Posted by Neil | August 20, 2007 8:18 PM
Neil wrote: This is an 'old story' betanews covered this Thursday 17th and 18th."
Actually, Neil, BetaNews covered this today: http://www.betanews.com/article/Skype_Users_Rebooting_Brought_Service_Down/1187625780.
Skype gave the explanation earlier today.
Thanks,
Joe
Posted by Joe | August 20, 2007 8:30 PM
That's interesting. Normally when my computer gets a Windows Update, it just prompts me to restart, but does not restart unless I tell it to. But if I recall correctly, last week my computer restarted when I left the room. I figured then it must have been a Windows update.
So my guess is this explanation is correct because I think mine restarted too. I don't like that at all because I might have had something important going on. Fortunately, it was an ok time for my computer to restart.
Posted by Phil Deets | August 20, 2007 8:45 PM
So who buys Skype? Microsoft, Google, Yahoo!, Facebook, etc?
Posted by Chad Ingles | August 20, 2007 9:24 PM
Joe, don't blame everything on Microsoft.
Your colleague, Bill Boulton , in Eweek reported another story : www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2173451,00.asp
It seems that " VOIP experts say Skype is more to blame than Microsoft for the outage that left millions without calling services"
Please turn to your back and check with Bill
This indiscriminate blaming reflects that you seem don't have any creditability. Often , you jump the gun before reasoning
Posted by Ron | August 20, 2007 11:15 PM
Funny, my Skype service worked just fine. Oh, wait, maybe thats because I use Linux, and don't have to mess with Windows updates, the BSOD, endless reboots, and the nice WGA features.
Posted by chips | August 20, 2007 11:23 PM
"Funny, my Skype service worked just fine."
Funny, but you can't use Skype when their servers go down.
Funny, but you sir are a LIAR!
Posted by Waethorn | August 20, 2007 11:35 PM
That sounds about right hey chips trying insult peoples intelligence again !
You couldn't pass up a chance to try and promote Linux again and of course belittle windows as well !!
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 12:17 AM
The skype service did not go down for everyone. Not everyone uses auto-updates. Even the folks who run XP, many have that turned off. Also, I doubt that Skype uses windows for its servers. There was only one person who I know that was using both skype and vista. Everyone else I could chat and talk with just fine.
Posted by chips | August 21, 2007 12:27 AM
Well spoken Chips ... for a liar that is !!
Just run off with your tail between your legs will you ...you must admit that you have been well and truly caught OUT this time mate !!
The Skype service was completely down therefore Linux or not you could not have done what you said !!
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 12:38 AM
"therefore Linux....could not have done what you said !!"
That's true for almost everything he says!
Posted by Waethorn | August 21, 2007 12:54 AM
"Just run off with your tail between your legs will you"
Is there room for that?!
Posted by Waethorn | August 21, 2007 12:56 AM
I am not on all the time like you guys. I have a life. So its possible it did go down at some point. But I am just telling you what I observed, the fact that you don't want to own up the the Windows Vista auto-updates causing most of the problem, is mostly typical for you. When you don't want to hear the message, you shoot the messenger.
Its just too bad you guys could not debate on an intelligent level and admit when your wrong.
Posted by chips | August 21, 2007 1:07 AM
This situation reminds of a very famous line..." I have you now young skywalker".
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 1:16 AM
Chips
You are on pretty much of the time to try and debunk anything that is for microsoft. And now you have been caught out lieing !!
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 1:18 AM
Chips
"Its just too bad you guys could not debate on an intelligent level and admit when your wrong."
I admit when I am wrong, but how about YOU ??
You have lied and been caught doing it, have you admitted it NO YOU HAVE NOT !!
There is a difference between "intelligent discussion" and downright hippocracy and right now mate you are the king of hippcrites.
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 1:56 AM
"You are on pretty much of the time to try and debunk anything that is for microsoft. And now you have been caught out lieing !!"
Don't worry Neil, now we have proof that Linux users are liars. Remember to bring up this point when he stirs up FUD again.
Torvalds is rolling his eyes.
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Windows Vista - "the only operating system that legally plays BluRay and HD-DVD"®
Posted by Waethorn | August 21, 2007 2:09 AM
Chips
"When you don't want to hear the message, you shoot the messenger."
When the messenger lies ...shooting is too good for him, your "story" was a lie.
Shot your yourself !!
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 2:11 AM
Chips
You pretty much remind me of "scabbers" from Harry Potter a good friend of Harry's dad, so ready to betray. And when caught ... a "supposed" good friend again.
A liar is a liar and that's all there is to it Chips, I recomend that everyone here on this site boycott you as a person that cannot be trusted.
I disagree with Joe Wilcox a lot of time but he has NEVER lied like you have.
In fact Joe I recommend that Chips (and as someone here said ... his alter egos) be banned from this site permanantly for doing what he has done intentionally. Being a liar !!
Joe you have said a lot about FUD... well here it is right on your own site, are you going to allow it???
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 2:23 AM
Good job chips! You just shot BadVista.orgy and the FSF's credibility all to h3ll. Keep up the good work!
"In fact Joe I recommend that Chips (and as someone here said ... his alter egos) be banned from this site permanantly for doing what he has done intentionally. Being a liar !!"
Awww...and I like watching the Lumox users making complete a$$es of themselves. XD
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Microsoft Windows XP - "Media Center done first."®
Microsoft Windows Vista - "Media Center done best."®
Posted by Waethorn | August 21, 2007 2:44 AM
please include this to fud report
Posted by Kenny Yeung | August 21, 2007 3:05 AM
its not often that a defenseless lie is so obvious. but chips... just slink away in shame. you sad faced clown.
Posted by newb | August 21, 2007 4:54 AM
You are mistaken: If a system was logged in to skype and did not restart, it did not lose the connection. It was just for entering system, needing authentication.
A normal operating system does not need this endless annoying restart-o-rama like Windows does.
For me, Microsoft products don't value or care about your data. Necessary reinstalls prove that (watch out or it is all gone on C:) and automatic restarts that wipe the data you got running in your programs too. Shocking actually (Reboot required: Windows will restart automatically in 45...44..43). If you are off the screen, by by data...
I use Linux, problem solved.
Posted by browny_amiga | August 21, 2007 7:52 AM
Browny_amiga
The thing is that Chips was never on Skype he lied that he was !!
The problem for skype was that their system was down not ours.
Even on Linux Skype was still down !!!
Is that so hard to understand
Chips is a LIAR !!! LIAR !!!
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 8:07 AM
"Chips is a LIAR !!! LIAR !!!"
....and may I add that he's the master of the flaming pants.
----
Windows Vista - "Available in four easy-to-distinguish product editions - one product for each type of customer."
Linux - "Available in a confusing array of several thousand distributions - nobody knows what's what here."
Posted by Waethorn | August 21, 2007 11:31 AM
Knowing Neil, the Shill: (facts)
1. 12 to 18 hours online per day. You need to be paid for this, if you need to work for a living.
2. Tries to discredit anyone who says anything bad about MS. Even more so if the blogger does it.
3. Creates personae who support him (they are detected because they present the same behavioural patterns, style of writing, misspellings and use of the same insults.)
Advantages:
To be paid for doing so.
High volume of messages in blogs (If not quality, quantity)
12 to 18 hours online, unlike normal people, who spend a lot less time doing so. So they can be insulted when they're absent.
Disadvantages:
Weakness of arguments-or a total lack of them. This tends to drive him to lie, offend or even insult, by the use of ad hominem (understandable, since it's hard to defend Ms)
Desperation and stress. This is a personal problem reflected on his behaviour.
All of these translate in the loss of personal prestige.
Any of these reasonings can be proven by going through Joe's blog's messages.
A last proof could be to write some other posts against MS, and a group (including Neil) will attack you, regardless of whether you quoted them or not.
Posted by Marco | August 21, 2007 11:42 AM
Chips:
It is true, as you said before, that there are fake commentators. At the moment, there are two created by Neil. But this was expected, of a desperate Ms investing in lawyers, marketing people and bloggers. I mean there is more pressure on shills like Neil.
But really I'm not so worried about them, always truth has been preferred over falseness. When you read people such as Neil, and their unrealism, this ends up damaging MS, contrary as intended.
Joe, have you found a pattern?
Three or four people are waiting for you to write, to write five or six messages against you or what you say.
Statistically, people usually read the first four or five comments in a blog. Maybe someone has ordered these comments to be put on? This reminds me the maneuvers of disrepute that totalitarianism governments use against their opponents. Wonder if Ballmer is creating his own NSDAP's propaganda machine
Posted by Marco | August 21, 2007 11:43 AM
Microsoft's Office Communicator and Office Communications Server are products that are revolutionary enough to create worries to anybody in the business including Skype and Cisco to name a few. Implying that Microsoft could use Windows Update to cause problems to competitors, is pure FUD.
Posted by evan | August 21, 2007 12:40 PM
"Neil, the Shill....Tries to discredit anyone"
That's rich! I guess you can't be a shill for a platform designed to not make any money, eh Marco? I'm sure the FSF would see the irony in your argument. Even Torvalds makes big money on Linux. Much like Communism, the concept of "free software" just DOESN'T WORK in the real world. You can keep sucking on the fumes billowing out of the BadVista.orgy treehouse though.
Marco, you seem to be fixated on disproving Neil when you don't focus on facts - chips has been caught in a lie. I guess your slogan is "The best defence is a good offence".
Neil, while chips has been officially tagged as a liar, Marco comes running to his aid and can be subsequently tagged as his defense attorney.
Posted by Waethorn | August 21, 2007 12:54 PM
Ron and Evan:
Go back and read what Joe actually said: (1) "Arak acknowledged that the massive reboot triggered a 'previously unseen software bug within the network resource allocation algorithm.' Windows Update may have set off the outage, but the ultimate flaw lies with Skype." (2) "The timing is fortuitous for Microsoft . . ." (You do know what "fortuitious" means, don't you?) (3) "The outage also calls into question Skype's broader services architecture."
To your credit, at least both of you addressed the article, which is more than most of the other commentators have done!
No one seems to have gotten Joe's obvious points of criticizing Skype, not Microsoft, and that this exposure of Skype's flawed model is a perfect opportunity for Microsoft, at least among those for whom reliability is more important than cost.
Posted by Special1st | August 21, 2007 1:08 PM
When is Joe going to stop focusing on the minutiae and get to the core questions? Microsoft is supposed to operate for the benefit of its shareholders. Ballmer is subverting that mission (just look at the share price over five years) and the Press say nothing about it. This Skype thing is about as important as a squirrel fart in a hurricane.
Posted by Ed T | August 21, 2007 1:13 PM
Quote;
Ed T :
"When is Joe going to stop focusing on the minutiae and get to the core questions? Microsoft is supposed to operate for the benefit of its shareholders. Ballmer is subverting that mission (just look at the share price over five years) and the Press say nothing about it."
----------------------------------------------------
Some Good points Ed T. Expect more of the same for the stockholders for the next years. Or it could be even worse and be "noticeably less," Ballmer usually makes these types of statement before bad facts come out in order to pre-empt them, as a form of damage control.
So if Windows and Office are not going anywhere by 2012, if we believe Mr. Ballmer, then are we supposed to believe that the Xbox is going take over the gaming console market? It seems that the strategy to sell the Xbox360 is now to dump it on the market far below MS cost. Thats right, dumping below cost maybe an illegal business practice. if used to kill off competition and create an monopoly (rephrase that; another monopoly) Only its a little tuffer here for MS with the Wi and the PS2 and PS3.
Then there is the Zune, I suggest renaming this one again from the former Plays for Sure. How about calling it the "Brick."
Posted by chips | August 21, 2007 1:49 PM
Special1st,
Joe wrote
I hadn't realized that Microsoft had in Windows Update a weapon against peer-to-peer networks. Maybe record labels and movie studios should rejoice. If Windows Update can bring down Skype, what could all that massive rebooting do to P2P illegal file sharing networks?
If i take thrsr statements literaly and seriously, then yes. It implies that Microsoft has a weapon against somebody, which is Windows Update. However, I would have to concede that he is probabling joking about this...
Posted by evan | August 21, 2007 1:58 PM
Chips,
Do you have have an idea of how many business Microsoft is involved other than Windows and Office? I would need 30 pages just to list them. Of course, he not implying only Xbox. Actually, if Windows and office continues to have the same percentage in Microsoft's revenue is 2012, that would mean that Microsoft's have failed misurably in every other business it has entered or is going to enter. Very bad for Microsoft indeed.
Posted by evan | August 21, 2007 2:08 PM
Chips
You must have the thickest skin god ever put on a creature !!
Caught out being a liar and you still have the nerve to put comments here and I notice marco stood up for you yet again.
Marco (if you are really marco and not "Chips" read the start of these comments and you will see how chips got caught.
He lied and then said it wouldn't (and supposedly didn't) happen to him because he uses Linux.
The problem was that the Skype service was down completely and utterly. Chips then tried to say that he was doing some sort of messenging ...again Skype whole network was DOWNand absolutely NOTHING was happening during the 48 hours. Therefore chips had lied !!!
Also Marco (Chips) as I have said before I do not work for microsoft, nor am I in anyway associated with Microsoft, I work for myself and I am not connected in any way what so ever with the computer industry.
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 7:47 PM
Actually I just had a thought ...why the hell do I have to justify myself to you marco or to chips for that matter.
It is Chips who has to now, not me !!
He is a liar ...and it has been proven that he is, what more do people like marco need blood ??
Marco you say you read the articles and see the comments surely any reasonable person would see how discredited Chips is now. TOTALLY !!!!
Posted by Neil | August 21, 2007 7:51 PM
I use Skype instead of a land line or cell phone. I have found it to 100 times more reliable than both. I think they're doing just fine. I have used it to communicate from US to Australia with little lag. Excellent work Skype. One outage in how long? Pffft.
Funny that my Skype troubles begin instantly after my updates installed and I rebooted. Coincidence? Maybe.
Off topic: Can you super-egos get back on topic so others might enjoy reading posts here instead instead of having to wade through the bellybucking and posing. These "useless" posts of you all trying to discredit one another is reminiscent of grade school. Low and behold someone should find a spelling or grammar error. Then we'd have an all out fued! Just think about it aye? You are detracting from the whole. Kiss and make up.
Posted by Slippery | August 21, 2007 8:06 PM
" Neil :
Actually I just had a thought ...why the hell do I have to justify myself to you marco or to chips for that matter.
It is Chips who has to now, not me !!"
Why does anyone have to justify themselves to some strangers on the internet? I couldn't care less what anyone thought about me here. Okay, so they think I'm a paid "M$ shill" or a "Microsoft clown"? Maybe it helps their self esteem because they can't come up with any valid argument anyway.
Posted by reflections | August 21, 2007 9:10 PM
Another day and another article from Elmer FUD... I mean Joe Wilcox :P
Seriously, this place is getting as bad as a video game forum, which is very bad. So Chips has been caught lying, whoever decided that. Anyway, bad Chips! You deserve 50 lashes with a wet noodle!
Yes Neil, Chips lied! HE LIIIIIIIIIED!!!!!! Just keep repeating it proudly with your over posting, you don't look pathetic enough just yet.
Posted by Ryannoyed | August 21, 2007 9:41 PM
To Ryannoyed;
"Skype engineers declined to say how many users were affected, but it is believed to be a large majority of the company's roughly 220 million users, who either experienced delays logging in or couldn't log in at all. Skype's forum site is littered with complaints about the iffy service."
http://www.channelinsider.com/article/Skype+Outage+Continues+but+Is+Improving/213621_1.aspx
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A large majority does not mean all. And, it would seem that I use skype mostly during the early evening hours. Also, I use skype 1.2 for linux, and have not updated that yet.
But then, I expect some people to call me a liar without all the facts, as usual. We would be better off without this types of games.
Posted by chips | August 21, 2007 11:24 PM
i'm new here, but very observant and a quick study.
chips, is a classic troll. dont feed the trolls.
chips/others talk alot about microsoft paying people to post positive things about them. i've heard of delusional, but c'mon. take your hand, put it out in front of you... now squeeze... and try very hard to get even the slightest grasp onto REALITY.
Posted by kd | August 21, 2007 11:47 PM
chips, u very clearly indicated that you didn't get logged out, and it was due to you being on linux.
that was a lie.
stop trying to sidestep.
earlier user had it right. u'r a sadfaced clown
Posted by kd | August 21, 2007 11:48 PM
Chips,
I don't use skype and I must admit that before reading the article and the links (thanks for your link by the way) I had very little idea of what this thing was. As for your personal experience with skype, you can be telling the truth or you can be lying (if you are, shame on you) but I don't know you so I give you the benefit of the doubt (although seriously, I really don't care). However, one thing that I know for sure is that this stupidity has lasted long enough. It's time to put an end to this and start another pointless argument over a new article.
Peace
Posted by Ryannoyed | August 22, 2007 12:52 AM
Ryannoyed :
Quote; "However, one thing that I know for sure is that this stupidity has lasted long enough. It's time to put an end to this and start another pointless argument over a new article. Peace"
----------------------------------------------------
Agreed
Posted by chips | August 22, 2007 1:18 AM
Chips
I agree ... so get lost !
You are full of bullshit !!
Posted by Neil | August 22, 2007 2:05 AM
Neil wrote: You couldn't pass up a chance to try and promote Linux again and of course belittle windows as well !!
What did you expect, Neil? Would you have wanted people here to promote that mess of an OS called Windows instead? That would have been far more insulting to anyone's intelligence.
You may not like Chips (a commenter here), but that doesn't improve Windows as an OS. It is still garbage compared to Linux.
Posted by Maddog | August 22, 2007 4:04 AM
Maddog
Yeah Yeah sure sure, you Linux zealats are amazing.
Posted by Neil | August 22, 2007 5:56 AM
Maddog
If chips is an example of a linux zealat no wonder Linux is not aywhere near double digit percentage as far as user base is concerned.
Posted by Neil | August 22, 2007 5:57 AM
Here is some news regarding this matter from neowin.net
"Skype has clarified an earlier statement which appeared to blame Microsoft's monthly patch for last week's outage of the VoIP service. Skype had attributed the two-day crash of its service to a large number of Windows users logging on after rebooting their systems to install Microsoft's monthly updates. The flood of log-on requests effectively launched a denial-of-service attack against Skype's log-on service.
Owing to a lack of additional information, the justification seemed to blame Microsoft. On Tuesday, however, Skype posted a full admission that sought to clear the software giant."We do not blame anyone but ourselves," wrote Skype spokesman Villu Arak in a blog posting. "The Microsoft Update patches were merely a trigger for a series of events that led to the disruption of Skype, not the root cause of it. And Microsoft has been very helpful and supportive throughout."
So get off micorsoft's back, you Linux people (like Chips) and don't be so quick to judge, no wonder the USA was the country most known throughout the world for "lynching" people and not giving them a fair hearing first.
Posted by Neil | August 22, 2007 7:27 PM
Marco:'Weakness of arguments-or a total lack of them. This tends to drive him to lie, offend or even insult, by the use of ad hominem (understandable, since it's hard to defend Ms)'
Desperation and stress. This is a personal problem reflected on his behaviour.
All of these translate in the loss of personal prestige.
--------------------
Well Sir, your point was demonstrated.
Posted by Paul | August 23, 2007 7:27 AM
The last windows update has our machines jumping all over the place whether it be a Web page or a MS Office product. It particularly affects MS Excel documents with the page jumping up and down with a mind of its own. Whoever reads these needs to give subscribers a way to back out of an update. It is screwing up our entire production and has infected every machine on our network running XP.
Kean and Associates, Anchorage, Alaska
Posted by Bob Kean | October 12, 2007 9:39 PM