Hi Joe, Hi everyone.
I have been lurking here for awhile, and this is my first post.

For the most part Win7 beta feels like warmed over vista.

I installed it on a spare computer, and was amazed it ran so well compared to vista. 512 mb of ram used on a vanilla system compared to vista's 900+ mb on the same system. The improvements in the GUI seemed minor to me, but do look a lot more polished and useful than vista's.

I have used every windows since 3.11 (except ME which I installed, then promptly re-installed 98 again.) I have been using Linux since 2005, and Mac OS X since just prior to the release of 10.5.

I have troubleshooted vista, and found it is a pain. Windows XP seems more familiar, because it is, and XP is EVERYWHERE! The times I have had to deal with vista is on customers laptops.

My point? Windows 7 is not going to change much. Yes it is nicer than vista, and has better system requirements, but most businesses wont just do a mass roll out of Win7. What will happen is people will buy Win7 preinstalled on consumer computers, and us IT guys will not only have to deal with XP and Vista, but win7 as well.

As for the beta itself, it is a good beta compared to the vista beta. (I didn't try the xp beta.) Am I 'very satisfied'? No. I would say I am indifferent or don't really care.

Right now with the economy the way it is, I would suggest to anyone to seriously look at linux or at least virtualize windows XP and use thin clients. If the economy is like it is now when Win7 comes out, no company in their right mind would upgrade to Win7.

But just with Vista, I gotta learn Win7 so I can troubleshoot it for the people who buy it and get infected with viruses.

Thanks Microsoft for making such an insecure product, because each time someone comes to me to clean their infected computer, it is money in my pocket, and a chance to convert them to Linux.

Hi Joe, Hi everyone.
I have been lurking here for awhile, and this is my first post.

For the most part Win7 beta feels like warmed over vista.

I installed it on a spare computer, and was amazed it ran so well compared to vista. 512 mb of ram used on a vanilla system compared to vista's 900+ mb on the same system. The improvements in the GUI seemed minor to me, but do look a lot more polished and useful than vista's.

I have used every windows since 3.11 (except ME which I installed, then promptly re-installed 98 again.) I have been using Linux since 2005, and Mac OS X since just prior to the release of 10.5.

I have troubleshooted vista, and found it is a pain. Windows XP seems more familiar, because it is, and XP is EVERYWHERE! The times I have had to deal with vista is on customers laptops.

My point? Windows 7 is not going to change much. Yes it is nicer than vista, and has better system requirements, but most businesses wont just do a mass roll out of Win7. What will happen is people will buy Win7 preinstalled on consumer computers, and us IT guys will not only have to deal with XP and Vista, but win7 as well.

As for the beta itself, it is a good beta compared to the vista beta. (I didn't try the xp beta.) Am I 'very satisfied'? No. I would say I am indifferent or don't really care.

Right now with the economy the way it is, I would suggest to anyone to seriously look at linux or at least virtualize windows XP and use thin clients. If the economy is like it is now when Win7 comes out, no company in their right mind would upgrade to Win7.

But just with Vista, I gotta learn Win7 so I can troubleshoot it for the people who buy it and get infected with viruses.

Thanks Microsoft for making such an insecure product, because each time someone comes to me to clean their infected computer, it is money in my pocket, and a chance to convert them to Linux.

I think you misunderstand the point of these surveys. They are not designed to get the best answer, the answer is pre-defined and then they work back to make the stats fit.

This particular survey set out to prove "Windows 7 users are satisfied". The closest they could get was that about half of them are satisfied.

No plans to deploy Windows 7. I tried the beta for a few days and found so many bugs and annoyances that I reformatted the drive. The worst was the fact that IE cannot handle more than about 20 tabs before the new fangled taskbar starts to fail.

Like most of these surveys, it's US-only, and as such doesn't reflect a number of implementation issues that affect the rest of the world.

I am for the most part happy with Windows 7, but there are still video driver issues (my screen flicks down to 1024x768 several times a day and usually requires a reboot to get it back to native resolution), Media Player continues its random walk across the space of poor usability and running into irrelevancy (e.g. still no podcast support). Libraries are not thought out properly, and the overall UI contrast levels seem to be deliberately intended to cause optic nerve damage to every user over 40.

As Mark Twain famously said: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." The genesis of the observation I'm sure came from inept or malicious statisticians, such as is exposed here. To draw a conclusion from 28 reports from a user base well in excess of 100,000 is well beyond inept, and is almost certainly malicious. I could come up with better stats than that to prove mother's milk leads to heroin use.

For me, a good operating system is one that:
- is easy to set up;
- is not loaded with trialware;
- recognizes things I plug into it;
- runs the software I want/need to use
- does not require me to purchase or download additional software;
- does not crash or freeze;
- is fast and stays fast; and
- is simple and elegant.

Once Windows 7 does this, I'm interested.

MS is rich enough.

Don't let them screw us over (no XP upgrade) without at least MAKING SOME NOISE!

And, keep encouraging LINUX!!

Sounds more like a survey run by a marketing department directed at their friends. If this was the case then surprisingly low numbers. I wonder what the results would be if this was a SlashDot poll (just to get the other extreme)?
Big negative to me is that Win7 reminds me too much of Vista and makes me cringe.

I'm using build 7068_x64 of win7 and it is a little more polished than than Vista or 7057_x64 for that matter. It's a second install on my box along with Vista 64. I have a problem with it shutting down, it won't. I removed and reinstalled twice so far with no luck. I suspect it may be more of a condition of the install, than a flaw, but I'd be happy if someone had a quick fix for it all the same.
I am happy with Win7 so far, I think it's zippier than Vista, but it's lacking the killer app...HOLD'UM

hmm, statistics, I sort of hate how they generalize from these kind of surveys and bring about their discrimination. however, I do like windows 7 a lot though.

linux? this article was talking about windows why bring linux in the mix? however, I'll say this: at this point linux cannot hold a finger to windows 7. I have been a linux user, but I found myself using it less and less. unless linux reaches the point of easy use where my girlfriend can use it without thinking that she's going to loose her mind.

if users had proper net etiquette then most of these silly worms/viruses wouldn't have had the impact they did. tell me how I used vista for well over 8 months without as much as a trogon? but on my girlfriend's computer eset smart security is basically running over time, it blocked a lot of malicious links and files? what the hell is she doing? it all boils down to knowing how to use the internet PROPERLY and don't click on anything and everything. if you see something out of the ordinary then don't click that "ok" button, learn to use the x button.

so the other day I was browsing the net and this window popped up, it's there doing a scan of my system informing me that I have a plethora of worms and such on my computer and I should download and install this virus remover to keep my system clean and safe. my 1st thought was "I never initiated a system scan, why is this scanning? let me exit this shit." it was a fullscreen xp explorer window, but lol, I'm using vista. same thing happened to my girlfriend twice but she clicked install twice, it got blocked by eset on her vista laptop, but her xp got totally barked. the window looked just like an xp window so I can see why she got duped.

@ Chips:
For me, a good operating system is one that:
- is easy to set up;
* Windows Vista does this, installs in less than 30 mins, best hardware detection out there, cleanest Device Manager.

- is not loaded with trialware;
* This depends on the OEM, not Microsoft or Microsoft Windows. Microsoft cannot dictate to every OEMs what they must do, or must not do with their OOBE. But improvements have been made to date, HP and Dell for instance have changed approach to bundling shareware products with their PC's.

- recognizes things I plug into it;
* Windows has been delivering this experience with PnP since Windows 95. Improved functionality such as Auto-Play introduced in Windows XP has further improved the user experience.

- runs the software I want/need to use.
* Microsoft Office, Adobe Creative Suite, AutoCAD, Corel Painter, QuickBooks, Firefox, Windows Live Essentials, Apple iTunes/QuickTime, VMWare, hundreds of thousands of freeware and shareware utilities. What more could you seriously ask for? The only thing you don't get from Windows is incompatibility, I am afraid you will have to turn to Linux and Mac OS X for that.

- does not require me to purchase or download additional software;
* Good luck with that, you have to download proprietary codecs on Linux just to watch videos and listen music in addition to downloading packages from repositories for similar software already built into Windows. Windows provides a balance, does not come bloated with an Office suite, two browsers, media players that only confuse users. You can get free, cool software such as Windows Live Essentials which includes apps for Photos, Email, IM, creating videos, syncing data, Parental controls and blogging and its ALL FREE! download.live.com

- does not crash or freeze;
*Windows has delivered a reliable platform with the release of Windows NT 3.1 since May of 1993. The NT kernel provides large memory address space, superior memory management, superior scheduling, and premptive multi-tasking.

- is fast and stays fast; and
* Yup, Vista includes a low priority defragment tool that runs in the background and keeps your system efficient over time.

- is simple and elegant.
* Windows Aero provides a beautiful computing experience, the Aero Glass theme allows you to focus on your work. Cool organization tools such as Instant Search, makes it simple to find your files, you can organize files into stacks, create saved searches and do searches right from the Start Menu.

Once Windows 7 does this, I'm interested.
* Microsoft has made even further improvements with the release of Windows 7:
- The efficiency of core Windows code
- Only starting certain services when they are needed (demand-start services)
- The way device drivers are initialized
- Allowing multiple device drivers to start at the same time (parallelization)
- An overall reduction in the memory and CPU required to start and run the graphics system

@smist08
w7 reminds you of vista and it makes you cringe? well for me w7 seems little like vista. but to everyman his own. but I have to say, from my perspective that is kind of lame (there are better words to use but I settled on that one)

Wow.

Windows Vista need to modify again. otherwise it will not be success.

1. It is still Slow. Yes, it is faster than Vista. but it is not enough. It must be almost as fast as Windows XP.

2. Inside of 7 is a vista. Microsoft need to modify more things needed.
But make it easier to use too. example the control panel confusing, ETC

I have been using the Win7 beta since it came out and have recently switched back to Vista, the drive Win7 was on died(Seagate 1TB bad firmware). Going back to Vista is painful. Though I would take either over XP.

Chalk up one satisfied. I have installed the Beta, not later leaked versions, on 4 computers from 2 to 6 years of age and on two laptops, two and four years old. All have Aero working and the OS runs internet, Office and media apps happily on as little as 512MB RAM and all are using Aero. Win7 is being used as the main OS on all but one of these, my son prefers XP for his games and Kubuntu 8.10 the rest of the time.

The laptops required a bit of fiddling because of proprietry hardware and associated drivers but the Viao now has all its systems working including the fingerprint reader and associaterd security software. This time the vendors seem to be getting drivers ready beeter than Vista, yes I was a beta tester for that too.

From a standard user perspective Win7 knocks Vista into a cocked hat for useability. The Homegroup concept is great, libraries take a little getting used to and I would still like to have the option to set up a data partition on install and have all user data pointed to that partition! Saves a world of pain if you mess around under the hood a lot.

Vista isn't now quite as bad as many think it is but I think Microsoft should give Win7 away to Vista users as SP2! Aint going to happen of course but Microsoft has an image problem and a Global reccession and needs to generate more goodwill. Making pots of money in the short term but driving many to other OSs is dumb, but then competition in the OS marketplace is good for consumers.

@Andre Da Costa,

Nice list. Yes, the majority of things I've heard about Windows 7 have been surprisingly positive. This is good, as strong competition will only improve our choices and help to push all of them to the top of their game.

You do ask "What more could you seriously ask for?"

Final Cut Express (or Final Cut Pro, for higher end work). For handling home high-definition video, nothing beats a Mac running Final Cut Express. Of course, high-end HD home video is not on your list, and it's not on mine either. But it is on my wife's list.

Final Cut is an Apple application that is only available on the Mac. That situation is similar to the Adobe Photoshop situation of a decade ago (not exactly sure of the date, but it was sometime late in Windows 3.X lifetime). At one time, Photoshop was only available on Mac and on Unix (specifically, Irix running on the famed Silicon Graphics Indigo workstation). Windows users clamored long and vocally for a Windows port of Photoshop. Probably 99% of the Windows market didn't care, but that remaining tiny percentage were the professionals who demanded the best. It apparently drove Microsoft to put in proper type rendering and other functions that Photoshop required, and the rest is history.

Cheers!

@Andre Da Costa :

Andre why do you even waste your time on that hater.

To him Linux is a religion. He can't love it if there exists something that challenges it.

I can totally commit to saying that Linux is a fine OS that many people could find everything they could possibly want.

At the same time I could say I perfer windows and not begrudge someone for their choice of an OS. A lot of Linux users can't do the same. They have to burn and trash anyone with a differing opinion.

And this from a group of people trying to attract people to their community. Amazing how well that's working out for them.

Quasars.... I was with you until you put in that line about Linux being everything someone could possibly want.

If that's true explain the popularity of Wine....?

@Philly....

Whoa. We actually agreed on something, and I want have to resort to (fun and quite tasty) expletives.

Final Cut pro is so good It drove me to buy a Mac.

Of course that Mac has fusion on it so I get my Windows fix too.

@Utomo....

Is english your 3rd language?

Anyways 7 IS faster than XP. Even vista has speed parity with xp after SP1. And performs some tasks faster. Have you used the beta? or for that matter Vista SP1? Or are you just buying into the hype?

In either case chalk me up to satisfied. Or as satisfied as I can be with beta code. The IE8 that comes with 7 beta has more bugs that the Russian consolate in Washington DC.

I think it's premature to even be doing a survey of this type before the RC.

Quote "If that's true explain the popularity of Wine....?"
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Easy, people want the best of both worlds. There is software that is not written with Linux in mind (and in my case NOT by Microsoft) Wine gives the user the option to pick and choose the apps they want. Its strange though that whilst Wine may be popular, the packages that users request functionality with dont seem to be Microsoft ones.
-
Linux is an OS not a complete software solution. FOSS is an ethos and an option for software solutions (many of which have Windows versions)
-
Whilst you are asking about why Wine is so popular on Linux, I would ask the same about VM software on Windows. Same reason as Wine, its pretty obvious. Choice. If you want further evidence of choice you should look no further than the popularity of the emulation scene on ANY platform.
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Dont ask silly questions CC.Torment. You dont have the impartiality (IMO) to hold an unbiased argument.
-
and CC.Torment, you are the last person to make comments about someones use of the English language. Youre immature "potty mouth" posting has given you quite the reputation here.

Goblin :

Most people I know don't run Linux in VMWare.

Then again most people don't run Linux.

Muwhahahahahahahaha.

And by the way Goblin I use potty mouth language to address you because that's what you're worth.

Fuck off.

See what I did there? I did it again. It was so effortless I think I'd do it again.

Fuck..... you.

Rolls off the tounge.

Quote "And by the way Goblin I use potty mouth language to address you because that's what you're worth."
-
Nice.
-
Although youre telling lies, since any reader simply has to look back through your previous posts here to see youre not really fussy on your use of bad language. BTW is English youre 4th language? Maybe you dont understand what you are saying?
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Great talking to you CC.torment.

Goblin what's that have to do with you fucking yourself?

Get to it man. Oh and btw don't dare pull the impartiality bullshit.

You're about as impartial as a roomfull of Executives in a discussion about bonus pay.

Andrew De La La Coaster=CCTormented both using free laptops from their masters at MICROSOFT!

LOL.
-
Youre getting cross arent you? I find it amazing that a conversation about IT can get an emotional response from you. Youre clearly upset. Whilst I celebrate Joe's "freedom of speech" ethos on this site, I wish he would reconsider in respect of your foul behaviour.
-
I would also like to see you justify the lie about "You're about as impartial as a roomfull of Executives in a discussion about bonus pay." give examples of me acting like that. If you cant or dont, I put it to you that you are a liar.

@Philosopher:
Adobe Premier and Avid Express ;-)

@Goblin,
Maybe God (left hand) does have a point about Andre and the other M$ Shill-Troll. Andre Da Costa never has responded about the Free computers he receives from Micro$oft for all his blogging and comments in Praise of Vista, the worse OS this side of MS Bob. I know I would be interested in how a person of Jamaica, can afford to fly and stay so often to the USA without receiving some sort of "pay" from M$ or one of its 3rd party front groups?

Perhaps this is a good time for Andre to come clean, and confess to "God", as it be. Let God and others know just what interests and monatary links he has with M$ and the tormented one? We know Mr. Dee on Cnet is an Andre sock puppet, that is public record, and that Andre as "Mr. Dee" is known to use bad language just like the tormented one. Perhaps confession is the key to release the inner torment of the soul, the soul that is bought and paid for by Micro$oft.

@Chips b Malroy
Very good points. "He who cannot be named" has gone very quiet recently. He's blocked his twitter to all but "friends" shame then that he doesnt appear to know who all his friends are ;)
-
The open posting (IMO) is a lost theory on some people. Whoever CC.Torment really is, it matters not, they give a great example of one of the few regular pro-MS commenters here and if ever an example is needed for how weak the anti-linux argument is, I direct people to CCtorment. When I first started bringing CC.Torment to task about his behaviour, I received a new twitter follower "MicrosoftLegal" which in my opinion was a rather pathetic attempt to frighten me into silence.
-
In reality the reverse happened, I took it as a great compliment that someone would think me important enough to try to silence with that silly attempt, and strengthened my resolve to challenge FUD/inaccurate posting.
-
I am under no illusion that my efforts are on a very small scale, but we can all do our bit to challenge this type of behaviour on the net and if just one user is swayed away from the FUD we see on a daily basis then I see my investment of time as worthwhile (regardless if they end up choosing Linux or not)
-
Even now, Im challenging on Twitter a Windows "reporter" who claims impartiality yet the only time they mention Linux is in respect of Novells product....hmmmm.
-
Great to speak to you again chips.

@Andre Da Costa:
Re: "Adobe Premier and Avid Express ;-)"

My wife has been on the Adobe Premier upgrade treadmill for at least 3 major versions and several updates. None of them seemed to have fewer bugs or crashes than the previous version. Lots of $$$$, lots of bugs, lots of sound+video synch problems, and so on.

When we got the iMac, she looked into the Mac version of Adobe Premier, but it didn't seem to be much less buggy than its Windows version. And it seemed that even high-end studios were using $800 Final Cut (now Final Cut Pro). Looking into $200 Final Cut Express, she found that it was pretty much the same except it couldn't handle 2-hour movies like the Pro version. As nobody generally likes a 2-hour home movie, she didn't consider this an issue. So even though the Pro version is on price-par with Adobe's top-end video tools, the Express version was a bargain. Solid, no crashes, perfect synch every time, smooth to use...

Of course, to each his own. But for home video production, especially with a HD video camera, Final Cut Express is the cream of the crop. An because it runs only on Mac, and because the application drives the platform (just as it was CorelDRAW 3 that drove me to Windows 3.1 so long ago), the iMac is becoming the focal point for her home video and photo production work.

And lots of people are content with iMovie and iDVD. But she demands more to match her own talent and vision, and a high-end package is pretty much a requirement--as long as it's in an acceptable $$$ range. :-)

But again, to each his own. And I know many people who are perfectly content with Adobe Premier (I guess they have more money and patience, and that's OK too), and that also get results from it that they like well enough.

And, because I don't do video (lack of talent, especially compared to her), I don't mind the fact that video on Linux is in the Stone Age. (Yes, some very high end studios use Linux for film production, but they write their own zillion dollar software and don't offer it to the rest of us.)

And thanks for the quick feedback! Windows, Linux, and Mac wouldn't be where they are without the others. And because Windows 7 does seem to be the home run to make up for Vista's market strike-out, Windows users will likely be much happier and productive, and Mac and Linux users will also see the benefits of worthy competition.

Let's just hope the lawyers stay the heck out of the picture. I fully supported Bill Gates rant against software patents and his statements that they only slowed innovation. So, CC.Torment, reserve your colorful language for the lawyers, since THEY are the ones who deserve no respect for claiming they know about something that they do not know at all.

I don't HAVE to give examples Goblin.

You and the rest of your pals hang around on a forum about WINDOWS.

You're no more impartial than I am. I freely admit to disliking Desktop Linux. Never said otherwise.

And I clearly remember you bashing some guy because he had the temerity to Use SUSE.

Something you derided as being MS approved Linux. You even blamed MS for SUSE's crap performance. I blame it's crap performance on the fact that it's Linux. So hey at least we agree on something.

Chips, its really sad to see you go through so much pain. I realize there are some mental issues that you might be suffering from. Don't worry, the pain will go away soon. I think you could ease the frustrations by embracing the rich technologies built into Windows Vista and 7. The immersive, compelling experiences its delivering to over 200 million end users world wide can help you bring some pizazz back into your life. Look at Netbooks, 96% running Microsoft Windows. Why? Because people want a rich, innovative, compelling user experience that delivers compatibility, productivity, entertainment and value for the whole family.

Sorry, but who is Mr. Dee, is he using Microsoft Windows? I bet he must really excited about Windows 7. :)

@Andre Da Costa :

Hi me.

ROFL.

I guess MS must have given free notebooks to the other 90+% of users who don't use Linux.

@CC.Torment

Its a recession and everybody needs some free rich compelling, experiences in their lives that Windows Vista delivers everyday to over 200 million users world wide. ;)

200 Million you say?

Damn Andre that is one hell of a lot of free laptops.

Maybe they could give away Free Linux laptops to entice users.....

Then again.... nahhhhh even free the cost of using Linux desktop is too high.

Andre, I see you have removed your name from Cnet's Mr. Dee user profile, but most of us know who you are. So its a little too late on that count. Honestly does not seem to be one of your strong points does it?

Pfah.

Chips you think everyone who disagree's with you is DaCosta.

Hell you even think I'M Dacosta.

Hey man how do I know YOU'RE not Dacosta?

Dacosta is everwhere...

ARRRRRRRGGGGGGH.

Get a grip.

Personally, anymore I never use a M$ operating system before Service Pack 1 comes out, simply because I figure they have the lion's share of bugs worked out. Vista works just fine for me, although I have the x64 version, and yes, it detected my computer's hardware and automatically installed the drives for it. I never had such a smooth experience installing XP. Granted, Vista has its annoyances, but so does ANY operating system, no matter who writes it (even the mystical Mac OS X--I use a Mac too and have gotten quite annoyed at it as well). My server runs Win XP Pro and I have no plans to change that, but all my other Windows systems all run Vista x64. The only thing I have to remember before I deploy a Vista system is to disable IPv6 on it until I can get a new DSL modem.

Isma'il, I am glad you are experiencing the value of Vista. Its powerful compatibility, rich user experience and strong stability. Thanks for being so honest. I am a Windows Vista 64 bit user too, although, I am running Windows Vista Business 32 bit on my Dell Dimension 8300 I purchased back in March of 2004, its running very well.

Chips, I have an honest favor to ask. Experience Windows Vista today by installing it please. It is very important you do so ok? Do it for you, if you can't, do it for all your friends and family, if you can't do it for them, do it for me. I know you like Vista, I know you like all of its features, but you are just afraid to accept it. Don't worry, I have a lot of resources on my blog and at www.activewin.com. Feel free to contact me too, I will be glad to help you get up and running with Windows Vista and its rich user experiences. OK? I recommend you purchase Vista Ultimate 64 bit, since you are a power user and you will need the UNIX subsystem which is included in that Edition, since you might want to access those Linux systems through the command line. If you need Office productivity tools, just purchase a copy of Office Home and Student, ok? You are a friend, and I want do whats best for you.

When you are ready, please email ASAP! :)

To those who believe that Linux is for geeks and Windows is easy to use, consider this issue about hibernation problems in Vista after installing SP1. To fix it, you have to open a command line and type a command like this:

bcdedit /deletevalue {3d8d3081-33ac-11dc-9a41-806e6f6e6963} inherit

To make it worse, that long, complicated string of hex digits isn’t fixed, you’re going to have to copy it out of some obscure config file on your system somewhere. How are you supposed to be sure you got it right, and what happens if you get it wrong?

Now, I’ve been using Unix/Linux command lines for over 20 years, and I’ve NEVER had to type anything as bizarre and obscure as that. Anybody who thinks this is somehow easier than a Linux system is completely out on a cloud somewhere.

@Andre Da Costa

Stop your lame praising of Windows' richness of experience. It's just like the other modern operating systems.

"I recommend you purchase Vista Ultimate 64 bit, since you are a power user and you will need the UNIX subsystem which is included in that Edition, since you might want to access those Linux systems through the command line"

Andre, stop trying to understand the technology that you are pimping. Nobody needs Vista Ultimate to connect to and control a Linux server. You need a program like Putty or Konsole for that.

Windows SFU/SUA is complete and utter JUNK. It is designed so that you can attempt to run bash scripts and POSIX compliant programs in the decrepit Windows shell, not to connect to Linux servers. Think Wine but for Windows and emulating Linux (badly).

If you want to try to run a UNIX environment in Windows then Cygwin is much better and actually works and does not require that you upgrade to Ultimate. I would not recommend it though, you are far far better off just using real Linux in a virtual machine.

@Lawrence D'Oliveiro,

Indeed! And I remember PC Magazine from 20 years ago that touted custom batch files for DOS that were many hundreds of thousands of times more complicated AND less capable than the comperable Bourne or Korn shell script.

Building with Tinkertoys are much easier to learn than building with steel and rubber and glass and welders. But I VASTLY prefer driving a car made by someone who properly knows how to build with the latter. And I would NEVER drive a car built by tinkertoys, not even if it was built by Microsoft's best tinkertoy developers.

As somebody else once said, "Easy to learn is a sucker's trade for easy to use."

@billybob:

Re: "Windows SFU/SUA is complete and utter JUNK."

Amen!

Re: "If you want to try to run a UNIX environment in Windows"

For developing command-line tools (which I did on occasion years ago when I still ran Windows 2000 at work), the MinGW and MSYS packages are much cleaner and easier to use and install than Cygwin.

But as you say, if you want a POSIX environment, then run real Linux or Solaris or whatever, and not an emulator--no matter how clever-- that is running on top of a tinkertoy!

Ok, Chips will need a copy of Putty or Konsole running on Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit and he will feel right at home. Is that better? I want whats best for Chips and I believe migrating from the Linux platform to Windows will take a small amount of time. Much of the transition will focus on the regrets of the pass years of not embracing the rich, compelling, immersive and captivating innovations that Windows has introduced to over a billion Windows users world wide.

@Lawrence D'Oliveiro :

I run vista64 SP1 on two laptops.

Both Hibernate fine and I never had to open a command line to enable it or fix it. YMMV I guess.

Besides, opening up a command line to fix a glitch is a far cry from having to use the command line for common tasks like installing an app or adjusting UI settings, or mounting a flash drive.

Not that I care. I don't mind cracking open a command line or two. But if you're trying to say Linux has the ease of use of Windows or OSX you're delusional.

LOL. M$ Shill Andre Da Costa is trying to get me of all people to by the bloatware Vista? Have you been hitting the Jamaica Rum too hard lately, or is it something stronger? As a salesman for Vista, let me give you some friendly advice, don't give up you day job $hilling for MS or your printshop job, if that is a real one.

Here is the better deal, go to distrowatch.com and download a live cd of Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Mint, or Ubuntu. They free, work well, do not have all the malware problems of windows, and you can boot off the live cd as well to make sure all the hardware is supported and if you like them or not.
But Andre, its been reported on this site, that you have Mac envy and are actually a closet Mac user, is this true? Can it be that you are a Mac user? Then what are you doing with all the free computers from M$? Are you running a pawn shop down there with all you free Vista computers from M$ as the sale item? LOL

If I had to run Windows on the internet, and there was no choice, it would be XP, 2000, or 98SE. Vista and 7even, which is Vista, will never touch my computers. Now as I told Joe Willcox, if M$ sent me a free laptop, I would take it, but I would also acknowledge it as well. So if you truely explain the free computers and your relationship to MS, I might be inclined to cut you some slack or even to somewhat agree with you. The fact that you are getting freebies from M$ in itself is not such a bad thing, except here you are, all over the internet, saying the most crazy stuff, in support of MS, in order to get more freebies? What else can we think unless you explain it.

Andre, both Goblin and I, have asked you to come clean about the free computers from M$. Had you done that, you could join back into the normal discussion, but you choose not to do that. You choose to create sock puppets who use profanity and vulgarity to stop the debate of ideas here on MS Watch instead. Now Goblin likes those puppets as it gives him a sounding board to reply too. But I think you are intelligent enough to not use the puppets, and to stop all the copy and paste richness as well. Am I right? By not talking about where your computers came from, by not talking about how you can fly here and stay at expensive hotels, by not talking about your relationship with Micro$oft, any reasonable user will get the idea that you are taking enumeration from Microsoft to post in their behalf.

"installing an app"

Come off it, all major distros have a GUI to install apps, it is better than hunting around various dodgy file sharing sites to get apps and patches.

"or adjusting UI settings"

System Settings is a GUI. I find it a lot easier to use than the dreaded slow Vista control panel.

"or mounting a flash drive."

Device notifier mounts and notifies you when you insert a flash drive. It then gives you a clicky interface to browse it. It is far easier than searching My Computer for whatever it labelled the drive today.

Lots happens in 2 years, you are showing how long it has been since you last tried Linux. I would recommend you have a look at the next version of Kubuntu, if only to update your FUD.

The major difference is that in Linux you have the option to use the command line so you can automate things, and the command line is just quicker sometimes. With Windows you are tied to whatever they deem is best for you.

Chips, I do not drink alchohol, I do like rum and raisin ice cream though. Lets make a deal, you install Windows Vista SP1 and I will send you a case of Appleton Rum. How about that? I even welcome you to visit me. I live only 10 minutes away from the south coast where there are splendid vista's around. Bring your digital camera, and you will be able to take beautiful scenic views of the island, plug your digi cam into my Vista PC' and import those photos in Windows Live Photo Gallery 2009, we can then edit them together, add tags, use the new cool People Tags feature to identify each other, and then upload them to my Windows Live Space where we can share them with the world and look back at your visit to Jamaica and how Windows Vista enabled us to do amazing things just like Kylie. :)

@BillyBob
I don't hunt around dodgy sites to get applications. I can get anything I need from trusted sources. That includes freeware and shareware. But then I'm not a freetard. If an application provides value I'm more than happy to pay for it. I don't use pirated software because I think developers should be able to make a living.

(What you really mean is that if it's not in your predefined list of approved apps.... you can't use it. ROFL.) Guess you didn't need that app anyhow. (except you did... time to install Wine and pray. Or breakdown and install Virtualbox or VMware and a real desktop os) Package management in Linux is a nightmare and one of the reasons I kicked that beast to the curb.

Have you never tried to download an update for a PC game? You have to go to all sorts of sites, the game developers do not host them (yes big developers like EA games).

My distro has things like VMWare as part of the core package list so I can install it without a problem, I think for things like Ubuntu you have to add an extra repo location (that is easier than searching Google all day), but I don't really use that.

I also have 2-3 other apps that I have which are not part of the distro and proprietary and come as a clicky installer, just the same as Windows.

Windows apps all have different update mechanisms (some none at all), which means it is harder to use. You asked about ease of use, but then you change your tune to require installing of packages not in the tree to be easy, then divert to the old "it cannot run Windows apps" line.

The only app I run under a VM is IE, that is something I do not want on my main computer.

@M$ Shill Andre Da Costa:

Getting photos by digital camera is easy in Linux, also their are several packages to "edit" them including free ones like Gimp. And sending them is also easy. Most of my windows friends just use email attachments, and not that bloated stuff from M$. So M$ makes advertisements of kids sending email and trys to make it look like the "cutting edge," when its really been around for a very long long time. Why should anyone pay for software that does photos when they can get that for free with Linux. And yes just because its included with Windows, does not make it "free."

Regretfully, you have decided to go down the road as a M$ shill, even though some of us are trying to throw you a lifeline of believability, by having you explain your relationship with M$ and the freebies. It's too bad, actually, because beneath it all, I see someone who is intelligent, who could drop the FUD and the untruths, and actually add to the conversation. I have little doubt, that you know quite a bit about Mac's. Perhaps MS employee Jess Meats would be a good example of how to debate here. She never insults, in fact, mostly she never FUD's, but when she does so, she admits that she did not know.

@chips b malroy:

Actually, I don't think Andre is a shill. He's just trying to tell us how happy he is that with Vista, Microsoft operating systems are finally becoming almost as easy to use as Mac or Ubuntu!

Chips, I am open to discussion. I do know a lot about Macs, I know they ain't cheap for sure according to a recent independent study I just read on the Windows Team blog:
Avoid the Apple Tax – Cash in on the value of Windows - tinyurl.com/cncx73

Chips, why can't you see I want whats best for you? Why must you turn my experiences into negative conclusions? I am just trying to tell you that Windows offers a significant level of value and choice over the competition.

* Windows PC vs an Apple Macintosh = Windows PC is more affordable and easy to use.

* Windows vs Linux = value and ease of use.

Free Windows Live services and applications like Windows Live Essentials allow you to do all the multimedia and social activities that hundreds of millions of Windows users are already benefiting from. Chip's I want you to be one of those. I want to help you realize the benefits. Why can't you reciprocate that and embrace the opportunities that are ahead for you on the Windows platform?

The Mac is a respectable platform, but its like any other x86 based computer, the only thing you are paying for is brand identity. Even if you do buy a Mac, you still have to buy Windows to get things done and get things really working. I remember when I had to help my friend get out of a sticky situation by installing Windows on her MacBook Pro, it was like a breath of fresh air for her. She was able to do so many amazing things. She loves her Mac, but she loves Windows on her Mac most.

PS: Come to Jamaica, and I will let you get to taste my tasty sweet potato pudding. :) I am serious Chips, I am really interested in meeting you so we can sit down together and have an 'open' discussion about things we feel very passionate about.

@Andre Da Costa,

Re: "tinyurl.com/cncx73"

That teeny tiny URL points to an opinion that definitely does not apply to everyone.

As stated before, the combination of Windows and Adobe Premier resulted in a long and tedious cycle of expensive upgrades and un-fixed bugs. But iMac and Final Cut Express resulted in smoothness, reliability, ease of use, and no required additional money for upgrades. Plus a very low initial software cost that put the Windows video solution on par cost-wise with the Mac.

And the Mac's multi-user support is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Microsoft's stupid tinkertoy hacked-on shoddy excuse for multi-user support.

SO.... for the 99.9% of computer users who don't need high-end video production nor multi-user support, then, yes, I would agree with your glowing views.

But for those of us who DO need high-end home video production AND solid multi-user support, the Mac is in the lead and has no peers, thank you very much.

But don't get me wrong... It's people like you who help me see a more complete picture and keep me from getting too complacent.

Philosopher, since you mentioned Multi-User support. I must remind you, OS X didn't support Fast User switching until Mac OS X Panther (10.3) (2003). Windows XP released in 2001 had this from day one built in.

Lets see:
10.0 - $129
10.1 - $19
10.2 - $129
10.3 - $129

That's $406 worth of unnecessary yearly upgrades to get one feature. And it still lacks easy to use security functionality for securing your Mac. Trying to lock your Mac's screen is trying to solve Sherlock Holmes mystery. Windows XP - Windows key + L and there ya go!

@Billybob

I'm an Avid gamer. I have a library or well over 50 games. I never have to jump through hoops to get an update. And I've never had to go to some warezed out site for them. In fact most modern games come with an update function all their own. Are you trying to get updates for "Licensed" copies? And a lot of game updates for older are available from free download sites that I know to be safe. "FilePlanet.com" Hosted by IGN I believe.
Been using them for years and never got a hairy file.

The sites I am talking about are the ones like fileplanet, they try to get you to pay to download at a decent speed. There are about 3-4 of them and they are very unprofessional if they are owned by the games companies. It is hard to know you are getting the right file from the right site, they never seem to supply any sort of checksum.

How would you know if you had a "hairy file" if it hides itself well? You cannot rely on any security on the machine because you normally have to run the game as admin or it does not work.

It teaches people bad security practices, everything that is downloaded and installed on my machine is checksummed twice before it can touch anything. I know files are not hairy because multiple trusted people have verified the integrity of them.

I think Andres lost all grip on reality, either that or hes really a BOT posting a response with a reasonable piece of AI coding. Or maybe hes trying to crack a joke nobody seems to be getting.
-
Chips on holiday at Andres house? what a great scoop (I presume CC.Torment will be there aswell ;) ), although Andre, does he really need to come over? Cant you just take the photos yourself and put them on the net (like you did when you received that $6000 laptop from Microsoft?)
-
Quote Andre "I am really interested in meeting you so we can sit down together and have an 'open' discussion about things we feel very passionate about."
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Theres a difference though. Chip's "passion" comes from honest held belief. IMO your "passion" comes from a different place altogether. Do we need to link to your 5 minutes of fame again?
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Andre, would you like to comment on the Dr DEE allegation against you? Id be interested to hear what you have to say about the latest allegation being directed towards you and your online behaviour.

billybob :

Billy as god is my witness the only game I run as Admin is CityOfHeroes and it's an MMO and all it's updates come directly from NCSofts servers.

In fact it's the only application I use at all that needs Admin rights. I typically avoid those because by now software developers should know better.

That includes games as old as Diablo2 and as new as Fear2.

Oh any how do I know? the files aren't hairy?

It's not like I'm downloading a steady stream of game updates. Normally I don't even bother to patch my games if they run well. I can't remember when I last updated one. No one just puts a bogus copy of a file for a game on a site, unless that file is a trojan or infected. My rig is protected by anti-malware software and firewalls. bulletproof? nope. But if I were that concerned about it I'd unplug my computer. That would make it useless you say? Well I'd say the same thing about installing Linux on it.

Risk Vs Reward. That's life.

Your original point was that Linux is not easier to use, Windows is not easier to use and keep running. You said it all yourself, people would put up game patches and updates with a trojan in. Buying anti-everything does not make you safe at all, I read a report recently that shows that most malware is missed by them.

Real people have lots of trouble with this sort of thing, just because you can double-click a binary does not make it easier to use.

@Goblin, who says:

"I think Andres lost all grip on reality, either that or hes really a BOT posting a response with a reasonable piece of AI coding. Or maybe hes trying to crack a joke nobody seems to be getting.
-
Chips on holiday at Andres house? what a great scoop (I presume CC.Torment will be there aswell ;) ), although Andre, does he really need to come over?"
----------------------------------------------------
Your right I have no intension of ever visiting hot and very humid Jamaica. The Inner Tormented sock puppet, would likely be there as well, since most likely Andre and CC are one and the same person in real life. I was hoping to bring Andre back into the polite line of serious debate, and away from the use of profanity and vulgarity with his use of sock puppets. In that I did fail, the dark side is too strong in this one. The Lure of Free computers, free plane fare, paid hotels, paid blogging by the word, is too much temptation for someone from a poor 3rd world country to resist, and I cannot really blame him for that. Perhaps, this inner "Torment" is what is causing this M$ Shill to have split personalities, that result in sock puppets of the most vular and profane?

@Philosopher :
In some ways I do agree with Andre, Mac's are too expensive for most users. However, as I see some people who keep bringing back their windows malware infested PC's, they most likely better off with a Mac (best Linux) as at some point the cost will be cheaper, than all the service or loss of data, downtime, etc. And if they get their financial accounts hacked due to windows malware, it could be very expensive indeed. BTW I use Avidemux in Linux to do what little video editing that I do, just fine for me.

Hi Billybob,
Atleast CC.Torment has stopped (for the time being) posting like a child, so that in itself we should be grateful for.
-
When he says "Well I'd say the same thing about installing Linux on it."
-
I actually think he's telling the truth for once, weve seen by his posts the level of knowledge he really has, and now he admits to being a gamer (along with earlier revelations of surfing for porn and being a troll).
-
Id say Linux is probably too complicated for him and would indeed be useless on his machine. Infact I go as far as saying anything more demanding than double clicking a binary would probably be useless to CC.Torment.
-
I certainly dont see the point in trying to engage him in sensible debate, however if I ever want to know the best way to "frag" someone in COD, Ill be sure to check with CC.Torment first.

@Goblin who says:

"Atleast CC.Torment has stopped (for the time being) posting like a child

weve seen by his posts the level of knowledge he really has, and now he admits to being a gamer (along with earlier revelations of surfing for porn and being a troll).

Id say Linux is probably too complicated for him and would indeed be useless on his machine. Infact I go as far as saying anything more demanding than double clicking a binary would probably be useless to CC.Torment.
-
I certainly dont see the point in trying to engage him in sensible debate
--------------------------------------------------
You last line says it all. One point I do disagree with you on, is that Linux is to hard or complicated for him. His only real problem with linux would be he dosen't khow how to import his porn collection and bookmarks from Internet Exploder. LOL

So Chips, you insult my country as being a hot and humid place with a intolerable tone? So what would you say about Brazil, parts of Africa and many places around the world? You heard it folks, Chips the Linux user hates people and their countries around the world because its hot and humid. So, I guess if you had the opportunity to help deploy the very incompatible Linux operating system on thousands of PC's and educate hundreds of thousands of potential Linux users in different parts of the world you would not, - because its "hot and humid".

Being a Windows user has opened up so many opportunities for me, the chance to meet and help different people around the world exploit the opportunities their PC has to offer running Windows. I have made so many long and lasting friendships because of Windows. Windows is not just 1s and 0s, its passion, its a community, its a family and its 100% value! Chips, no matter what negative connotations you may gather about the worlds greatest platform, people know the facts and that is why over a billion PC's just keep making the right choice, whether its Windows XP or Vista. Windows users see the unique values the Windows platform creates for them.

I have been telling people for many years, Windows is a democracy, it does not see race, color, creed or economic status. It sees enabling people to get the fullest potential, the chance to be their best. Linux is a propaganda, a platform of hatred and depressed individuals who are traumatized by the fact that everybody loves Windows and everybody is using it. Chips, please admit it, you are a Windows user, you are just in denial. Anyway, I must admit, Windows does include the hottest technologies and engaging user experiences no matter the terrain or humidity. :) Rich compelling options that enable users to be their best.

@Andre Da Costa who says :
"So Chips, you insult my country as being a hot and humid place with a intolerable tone?"
----------------------------------------------------
It is hot and humid. That is a FACT. And an easy one to check online as well. So is Florida hot and humid, a part of the USA, for that matter. And what does this have to do with the people that live there? Nothing, it was a statement about climate. In fact, your statement reminds me of another probable sock puppet who accused me about a statement about the British. Just the way it was worded and the content is so similar, coincidence? I think not. You and the inner tormented one are so quick to attack those who you cannot debate and win. But then again, maybe Microsoft has reached the point where it is undefendable anymore.

The fact that many people live out in the west of the USA for health and medical reasons, to escape the high humidity of the eastern USA should not trouble you either.

Andre, is this all you got anymore? Can't you do better than this in your defence of Micro$oft. Even I am starting to feel sorry for the wasted money and freebies that poor Gates and Ballmer are lavishing on you, and for what, this???? At least Jess Meats can debate, unlike you.

I see your mind is focused on money. Well, don't worry Chips, PC's running Windows Vista have shown to deliver significant value by being cheaper, easier to use than Linux and OS X, with a large collection of programs available for the Windows platform: shareware, freeware and commercial. Windows delivers choice and opportunities for you to focus on the things you really want to do Chips. I see you as a writer, I think the latest features in Word 2007 such as the Office Fluent toolbar and mini-toolbar can help you to significantly increase your productivity and its only a $120 value simply by purchasing the Office Home and Student edition which also includes Excel, PowerPoint and OneNote and 3 licenses! If you need an email and calendaring solution, you can augment that with the Windows Live Essentials suite which includes Windows Live Mail 2009 with built in Calendaring so you can sync with online Windows Live Calendar service.

Chips, I truly want whats best for you. I want you to experience the rich, "lavish" life I have everyday using Microsoft Windows Vista. Put away the confusing GNOME and KDE, put some Windows inyour life and into that PC. Download the Windows 7 beta today Chips and the Office 2007 trial and you will be so much better than you are right now. :)

End of the day I'm enjoying my computing experience, running the applications I want to in my perferred computing evironment. I'm running the stuff I need to and getting things done when I need to get them done, how I need to get them done. I know you Linux types like to believe I'm having a horrible time dealing with blue screens (which never happen to me) and fighting off malware (which I never get because I'm smart enough to compute at user level, Leave UAC on and let security software that I don't need to maintain, do it's thing.)I have my apps, I have my games, I have my media. I edit video, and music, using quite a few tools that are free. And in 20 years of computing I've never contracted so much as a piece of spyware. Now you may go... well how do you know that? Well my credit card accounts are still in tact, my identity hasn't been stolen. My data hasn't been damaged. So for the most part your rantings about security amount to so much noise. I'm well aware of the threat, but I'm not going to be forced into using a computing system because of them. I take what precautions I can and keep sensitive information offline. I know you need to believe otherwise but there are people who are happy with Windows, even after they've used Linux. From day to day, work and play Windows provides the experiences I want and have come to depend on. I can't think of a single thing I need Linux for. I don't need to learn the desktop OS professionaly. I can get around RHEL because we use RHEL servers at work. There are no applications that are native to Linux that I need, that don't have a windows compatible variant. My systems are stable and all but self maintaining. I have previous versions, and system restore to protect my data on top of backup systems that I built with bargain basement hardware. I'm not a developer but I do script. VBScript, Powershell, and WMI combined with GPOs allow me to do the work of 4 people. I administer close to 100 servers at work both physical and virtual. 90% of them are windows. Were not infected 6 ways to sunday. My servers don't crash. In fact since I've scripted and automated damn near every thing I'd feel like the fucking maytag repair man if it wasn't for virtualizing and/or replacing old servers and pushing out new apps. I also don't hate Microsoft. They're a corp. All large corps are fucked up one way or another. But I feel no need to stick it to em, or fight teh manz. No matter what I do someone is going to make a buck off of it so fuck it. When I die some asshole is going to get paid to cart my carcass away.

So seriously what reason do I have to use Linux for personal reasons? ze----roooooooooooooooo.

"So seriously what reason do I have to use Linux for personal reasons?"

Who cares? You are not the centre of the computing world and the success of Linux will not be judged by when you start using it.

I was just correcting your old and crusty FUD.

The rest of your post looked like a boring rant so I didn't bother to read it.

@Andre Da Costa:

Re: "I must remind you, OS X didn't support Fast User switching until Mac OS X Panther (10.3) (2003). Windows XP released in 2001 had this from day one built in."

Windows has never had decent multi-user support, and it still doesn't. It's always been a botched add-on that requires full support from all applications. And application support for it is spotty and wildly inconsistent.

The ONLY common operating systems for personal computers that have had good multi-user support are those that are Unix-based or follow the Unix/POSIX design (such as Linux and BSD Unix). You're right about Mac; it didn't get decent multi-user support until it was built on top of Darwin which is Apple's version of BSD Unix.

Re: "Windows is a democracy, it does not see race, color, creed or economic status. It sees enabling people to get the fullest potential, the chance to be their best. Linux is a propaganda, a platform of hatred and depressed individuals who are traumatized by the fact that everybody loves Windows and everybody is using it."

Chill out, Andre! Windows and Linux are software, not politics or propaganda. For me, as a software developer for POSIX environments, Linux represents the freedom from the high-cost of commercial Unix. It's not for everybody, and I don't even think of pushing it onto somebody who doesn't want it. I ONLY want the freedom to run it if I so choose to. Period. End of story. You can keep your Windows Vista and 7, continue to praise it, and thereby help me and others obtain insights that we would not otherwise gain. So chill out, sir!

And down here in South Florida, it's often hot and humid (though we have had a remarkably long and chilly winter season). Probably even greater hot and cold extremes than your native Jamacia, as we aren't surrounded by water to the same extent as you. But certainly NOT the blast furnace that is the Southwest US regions in summer, and not even as hot and humid as the Hudson Valley in summer. But I digress! :-)

Re: "...my identity hasn't been stolen."

Why does it not surprise me that nobody would want to steal your identity? ;-)

I am a windows 7 tester, it is faster then vista and xp, but i also agree with one of the comments put on here, if the economy is still in the gutter when win 7 does come out, and if it is priced like vista or xp was, i know i wont be rushing out to buy it, i honestly dont like the upgrades from a preinstalled op sys to a new one, i rather have a fresh install. It sure would be nice to buy a new pc and have a win 7 disc in the box, and i wouldnt have to make my own, we spend enough money on a pc that it should be included, and the dic shouldnt have any of that trial ware bs on it. if its going to have a anti virus software on it then it should be on it for one year or dont put it on it, i also agree with someones post that if win 7 or any new op system runs smooth , has no crashes reconizes every thign installed, and doesnt have all the tril junk or any junk, and if it stays fast fine,

when i first starteed to use win 7 i was excited from some of the hype that it was kinda copyin things from the mac 10.? system, i like how the mac has the tool bar at the botom, so the video of the win 7 at the begining showed that from my veiw, but from now using the win 7 beta, it is nothing like it, win 7 from my veiw is the exact same as vista wich is lame, looks like vista reworked few things changed, its nothing really differnt, it would be nice to see it more improved and way better, be nice to see it beable to do more cool stuff, like what the mac does, it be nice to instal software that i want to use and it all work together like the mac does, instead to make a movie, from several pics of the same not a movie clip of dif pics .. but any hows to do this its a pain on thepc its a pain to make a web blog and poast it its a pain to to the win calender and share it compared to the mac,
yes if some one is trained in using the pc it migh t be easy but how maney hours does a person have to do to laern this? for some one like my father or mother its not that easy to use win 7 or vista they found mac to be esier to use and get around even tho they never use a mac, weird. so win 7 on my veiw isnt that great of a system and i know witht he way things are the economy, and knowing windows the op system is going to be over priced for what it can do, so why would i rush out to reimage my hd to have preaty much the same op system i have on it already?

i see they are changing the ultamate and home and enterprise stuff, but i think tha will nip them in the butt if they do this.
an hows this is my 2 cents. for me im in no rush to upgrade to an over priced op system that doesnt really work that great!!!!

I am a windows 7 beta tester, I was all excited when I found it out, so I had to be part of it, BUT to tell you the truth , im dissapointed in it, from the video i seen it looked like win7 was going to have the same ease of use, but from using it it just looks like vista but some tweeking done to it, for me I am in no rush to run out there and get the new op system, for one it will probably still be over priced, here in Canada vista upgrade home premium a upgrade not a new image install costs $298.67. way to much money .
you can almost buy a new pc for that price a few more bucks and you can have a updated pc with new software. windows needs to rework the pricing for sure, a fresh image disc not upgrade bs. is close to 500.00

for me using the win 7 beta, i am a bit disapointed with it, its the same as vista with tweeks done, it would be nice to see it have some cool stuff like what mac has, and for it to be easier to use then what it is now. i let my parents use it, who are not pc users, and they struggled with it, i agree with a post that was said if windows can make a product that has no trial crap on it, if its going to be put on it and they want you to buy there product it better work with it for one, i have pc cillian when i bought a pc from dell, paid good money too close to 5 g for the stupid thing, and pc cillian didnt work , i emailed them backa nd forth they couldnt figure out the problem, was a comlete waste of money, they never refunded my money, dell count fix the problem, mind you dell is a joke too, that pc has been a lemon and they dont stand to ther eowrd either , but back to win 7
the tool bar at the bottom on the video looked like how the mac is which i like, but it isnt i cant keep things on it it will be there and then it will vanish on its own. it would be nice if they explained how they would like things to be sent to them on the feed back for problems, but they never did,

I know if they lwerd there price and didnt gouge like they have done so in the past, and if they made windows 7 resonable price and afordable pepole might rush out to upgrade. but knowing microsoft they wont it will be up there.
if microsoft could get all the developers to create a product that all worked togetehr and didnt need a patch here patch there or have to have some sort of major upgrade to fix this or that, it be nice. and it would really be nice to have a pc that didnt catch some sort of cold. pepole who make viruses should be shot, same goes for peole who steal your id hackin is fine as long as they dont do damage to your stuff or steal your stuff , because hacking is how we are to where we are now, we wouldnt have windows or mac or anything if hacking wasnt done.

but it benice to see some sort of product that worked smoothly reconized thigns, didnt need all the trial crap on it, the software you wanted was resonable to purchase, and it all was verry easy to use, iknow i tried to make a movie, and i still havent figured it out,im told its easy but yeah right, on a mac at least your music is there your pics your videos ect, and its easy to do,,pc you have this window for that window you have to brows here there to just put somethign in, its not that user freindly,
windows 7 should also have some sort of funtion that you can block pepole better, what i mean for example, i have a buddy who used to be pc user , untill he had a bike crash and had a stroke too, he is kinda all there but isnt, but he knows what program files an d likes to go oin there, it be nice to lock him out, but not lock him out of every thig else. just the major stuff be nice. but i cant figure it out.
it also be nice to have some sort of back up system like what the mac has , instead of how windows does it, the mac back up is awsome.i think there are too maney developers for windows that none of them talk to let them know whats what, its all hush hush. and i think that is why there are so maney problems, with mac i know its all mac, you dont have that crap, from my knowledge i can be so far wrong tho haha
but for me i dont think i would be rushing out to do any upgrade, or a fresh install, if i did i would do a fresh instal, upgrades shouldnt be allowed, what if soemone has to go back to when they had win 95???? or 98??? say some one started at 95 did a upgrade kit then from then on did that to vista? you how much of a pian that would be?
i think it be nice if windows also did a fresh op system instead of a op system ontop of a op system till we get to vista or win 7

all well time will tell, but i know im not rushing out to buy win 7. if i do, it will be a new pc with it preinstalled.

I use Win 7 on three PC's. One is a HP laptop that was "Vista Ready' but wouldn't run Vista worth a can of beans. I juiced up the RAM to 2GB and no joy,.... it was still slow as can be. After the Vista service pack came out, it ran without problems, but was SLOW, Slow, SSLLOOWW!
I finally put XP on it just to get any functionality from it.
When I got the Win 7 Beta, I tried it on the laptop and it runs perfect. Every driver loaded, Office and everything else I use it for works well and fast.
My other two PC's are high-end gamers with 8 and 16 GB of RAM respectively. Vista 64 Bit ran fine on them once the service pack came out, and Win 7 64 Bit runs flawlessly on them now.
I'll be buying 3 copies when it's released.
I also like my OSX iMac and my little (very old) UBUNTU box. Our choices just keep getting better with time.

Hmmm, what a big waste of breath. Why don't we all just use what we personally prefer and stop worrying about everyone elses computer. I think most of the free world agrees that Vista is crap. It may as well be Windows 7's beta. I have windows 7 RC version and as far as im concerned it stomps vista into the ground.... but its still not as snappy as xp. The main reason for that being XP's much lower hardware requirements. And of course the fact that it's the best OS to ever leave Redmond, WA.
The day I can find a version of linux that doesn't release an ant farm into my computer is the day I'll switch to it for good. Until then, I'm gonna give Windows 7 a chance. It sure is better than vista and if it ends up sucking ass as well......good ol' Windows XP Professional will be there to save the day. See ya all!