Is Seven for Real or Just More Empty Vista Promises?
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News Commentary. I'm really trying to get excited about Windows 7's promised new features and capabilities. But I've heard about them before, and Microsoft didn't deliver. |
That's why yesterday I didn't post anything about Microsoft's WinHEC, under way Nov. 5 to 7 in Los Angeles. I wanted to observe more before offering a critical perspective. See, I want to believe that Seven will be better. But faster boot times, better performance, improved battery life—these are among the many promises Microsoft made about Windows Vista and didn't deliver on.
I understand that there's a new sheriff in town. Steven Sinofsky, senior vice president for the Windows and Windows Live Engineering, and the Core Operating System team have shown real leadership. His management of Windows development dwarfs the execution of predecessor Jim Allchin. But Steven also is building off the creaky Vista foundation.
Or is it? How creaky can Vista be if the kernel and so much of the code is based on the well-received and favorably reviewed Windows Server 2008? Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2, which are lockstep in development, also build off a largely common code base. Microsoft is right about there being perception problems about Vista.
But, that said, Vista's problems are bigger than negative perceptions. Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008 are not the same animals. Humans and chimpanzees have more than 98 percent of the same DNA in common. Look at the differences. I suppose in that analogy Windows Server 2008 would be the human, which makes Vista what?
Diminished Expectations Help
Early Windows 7 reviews are encouraging, but shouldn't they be? Vista has so lowered expectations, any improvements are beacons in the darkness. By comparison, Vista launched against Windows XP, which was good enough for most people and had built up a large partner ecosystem. Vista had to cross a much higher expectations bar, which it couldn't reach. In my testing, Windows 7 Pre-Beta feels solid and improves in many ways over Vista. But feeling good because somebody stopped beating you shouldn't be the measure of pleasure.
Then there are real questions about how many of Vista's problems Windows 7 will carry forward. Microsoft executives already have repeatedly stated that Seven would be based on Vista—and the stability of the pre-beta build is evidence. I don't have an answer for whether or not Vista's problems will remain, based on early testing. Seven is a work in progress, and many of the features Microsoft has demonstrated aren't available in the pre-beta (some of them can be enabled using some creative hacking). Also, there are development realities. Microsoft has x to do in y time frame. The closer the projected release date comes, the harder will be decisions about which features make the cut. Some won't.
Microsoft is promising improvements over Vista; it's unfortunate that so many are old promises made and not fulfilled. Some touted new features fix longstanding Windows problems. I laughed when at Microsoft's Professional Developers Conference, Oct. 27 to 30, Julie-Larson Green, corporate vice president of program management for the Windows Experience, said Windows 7 would let users move around the order of open applications from the taskbar.
"We saw people in our usability labs just shutting down all the programs and opening them up in a particular order to get into place, so we thought it should be super-easy to have it work the way you want it to and put your favorite applications so that muscle memory can really take over," she said.
Julie, I've seen people doing this for years. What took you so long to see this? Browser tabs, which can be dragged and reordered, increase users' frustrations about what they can't do with the Windows user interface. That's not obvious?
Back to promises: Good UI design demands simplicity. The mechanisms behind the processes may be complex, like those for moving the human arm and hand, but interaction with the UI must be simple. More importantly, the UI and overall product operation must minimize frustration and maximize delight. Apple's iPhone UI, which is by no means perfect, is full of hidden user experience surprises that delight. Vista brings up too much frustration in persistent annoyances, like startup and wakeup times or UAC prompts. Seemingly small annoyances diminish, or even sever, the user's emotional attachment to Vista.
So how will Microsoft make people fall in love with Seven? Fortunately, many of the promises being made about the new operating system focus on changes Microsoft should make—things that increase simplicity and reduce complexity, such as faster boot-up times, longer battery life, better performance, home or work network detection, easier content sharing, and simpler printer setup and detection. Too bad, Microsoft promised these things before for Vista. Did Microsoft deliver on those promises in Vista? You tell me—please, in comments or by e-mail.
In March, I blogged about the 10 things I warned Microsoft about Windows Vista, back when I was working as an analyst. I would make most of those recommendations about Seven, too.
Start Me Up—Faster
Perhaps Vista's biggest usability shortcoming is the length of time before the operating system is truly usable from boot-up or sleep. People get frustrated waiting, and increased use of laptops only accentuates negative feelings. Cell phones and other portable devices create expectations of instant-on, or nearly instant-on, availability. The most common complaint I hear about Vista is that it's slower than XP. When I inquire further, many people mean boot-up times, which create an overall sense of slowness (Vista actually rocks on the right system after it's fully loaded).
While I'm really unimpressed with extent of boot-up improvements promised yesterday during WinHEC, the process is hugely encouraging. Even a non-programmer like me can see that services and device drivers slow start times. So I was absolutely delighted to see that Microsoft is trying to clear these two boot-up bottlenecks. During yesterday's WinHEC keynote, Jon DeVaan, senior vice president of the Windows Core Operating System division, explained some of the ways Windows 7 would "start up several seconds faster" than Vista:
A few examples are loading device drivers in parallel instead of serially, and another important one is that we've created a mechanism to start services truly on demand, which is something that everyone here will want to take advantage of, because by lowering the number of services that start during this scenario we can lower the memory pressure, we can lower the I/O pressure and we can deliver a superior startup experience to customers.
Thanks, Jon. I love you. This is the kind of stuff customers and hardware partners need to hear. But several seconds isn't enough time. How about optimizing Outlook so that it runs better on Windows? Applications are another problem, and some of the worst offenders come from Microsoft.
Seven Is the Ecosystem's Lucky Number
Microsoft's challenge exiting WinHEC will be pulling the ecosystem forward. Windows XP can no longer be the hub around which the Windows ecosystem revolves. So far, Microsoft's WinHEC efforts look good. But hard economic times are sweeping the globe. Many hardware companies will be cutting back. They may resist the push forward to support Seven, even if for many all they need do is adequately support Vista.
Steven and other Microsoft executives say backward compatibility is a top Windows 7 design priority. But Microsoft is making changes, such as how device drivers load, that can't be ignored by hardware manufacturers. Microsoft must convince them that actively becoming part of the Seven ecosystem is worth their time and investment. Some hardware manufacturers will doubt Microsoft's promises—that they can be delivered on.
Microsoft has no other choice: Windows 7 must be in the market for holiday 2009 and, better, for the back-to-school buying season. There must come a time—and not so far ahead—when, at least privately, Microsoft commits to a delivery date. The operating system can generate partner sales during tough times; that's reason enough for their support.
Ah, but there's another problem. Microsoft promised Vista for holiday 2006 and reneged. Past failed promises create distrust, disbelief. Partners burned before will be cautious about the flame's ability to cook something good.
Microsoft, I want to believe in Seven. That your promises mean more than the teenager pledging to clean his room or turn in her homework but who fails again, again and again. Jon and Steven appear to be doing great work setting Seven expectations, managing development efficiently and driving toward a realistic delivery date. But it's tough to believe given the mess made of Vista. I ask readers: Do you believe? Can Windows 7 be all that Vista should have been and more? Please answer in comments or by e-mail.
[Please send your tips or rumors to watchtips at live.com]
Comments (37)
I agree totally that the ability to reorder taskbar buttons is a no-brainer. But, I'll never get this thing about startup time. My perception is that my XP and Vista computers take about the same time to start. The difference is, I never shut down the Vista box, using standby instead. If I push the button as I walk up to the desk, I'll have a login prompt by the time I sit down. I'm pretty sure Vista wakes from standby faster than my LCD monitors.
My Vista PC just notified me of a fix for an ongoing issue where HP drivers crash the servicehost process, and linked me directly to the patch. That's just one of many small improvements that add up to a worthwhile upgrade in my view. I don't think 7 will necessarily change the world, but I'm looking for a lot of incremental improvements that, like Vista, add up to a great product.
And having used "great" and "Vista" in the same sentence, I'm not going to read any of the comments that come after this one : -)
Posted by DaveN | November 6, 2008 2:43 PM
@Joe,
One thing that strikes me the most of the new expectations is that we "expect things to work well". It is the top most expectation I see when I read your post. It seems that Microsoft's Windows product line (at least consumer) has dropped so low that they are playing catch up with themselves.
I would scratch out new features from the expectations list and add "modularity" as the top most requirement. As far as I understand it I can have Windows Vista Business in the high end and XP Home in the low end Netbooks and ultraportables.
I would be delighted to see a setup wizard that lets me configure a Windows OS according to my needs. That way I can have a Windows Seven version for high ends with all the bells and whistles and one for the ultra portables. A way I can choose if I want disk encryption or Business features or multimedia features (as in Home Premium) without the heavyweight Ultimate.
This would give Microsoft flexibility in today's changing hardware environment.
Posted by Gerardo Tasistro | November 6, 2008 3:54 PM
I have used Vista for a long time and like it better than XP for the most part. If they can speeds things up in Windows 7 then that is great.
Here are the areas that I do not really like in Vista that Microsoft has not talked about with Windows 7.
Disk Usage
1. C:\Windows\winsxs
Have you ever checked the size of this folder after installing a few applications?
2. Personal Folders, Users folder gets to be huge compared to XP.
3. Temp Folders, why can't these be cleaned up automatically? Check out C:\Windows\Temp & the temp directory under your user profile.
4. The list goes on.
Windows Explorer
1. Breadcrumbs are nice but where are my toolbar icons.
2. Vista thinks it knows better than me which view my folders will have. I keep changing them back all the time. Windows 7 needs to fix this.
3. Disk space left... where is my XP status bar? The Vista details pain should show this since it has lots of room. Let's hope the put it in 7 later on.
4. Folder Tree view with disk usage
5. Resize pictures easily from Explorer.
6. Slow opening folders with lots of files.
etc....
Custom Install & Post Role Configuration
1. Let us pick an installation type. We should be able to configure the system at installation for the role we would like. E.g. Home, NetBook,Domain, Media, and also exclude printer drivers (1GB?) that I will never use. I can just put them on a USB stick or download them from the Internet.
2. Select the role of the computer to free up memory and disk space. I should be able to turn off search, prefetch, HTTP proxy, and other services that I do not need based on roles.
3. Windows Defender, if we install a 3rd party product that performs the same function should it not prompt to be disabled?
4. Give the user the better options for removing things from starting up. e.g. Autoruns from SysInternals really shows you what's starting up.
Multi-Mon
How many people do you know that have multiple monitors? Lots I am sure. Where is the task bar on the second (3rd, 4th) monitor?
OK, my quick rant is over for now.
Posted by Kent | November 6, 2008 5:04 PM
The faster boot holy grail? Why? Even though Vista's hibernate takes twice as long as it does in XP, hibernate is still a really quick way to get going again in Vista. By the way, hibernate in Windows Server 2008 is nearly as quick in and out as XP's hibernate. That tell ya something about all the crap Vista is running behind your back? (can you say, "DRM"?)
Posted by mgo | November 6, 2008 6:31 PM
No sign of a fix for the drive-letters issue.
Posted by Lawrence D'Oliveiro | November 6, 2008 6:39 PM
Now where to start,
If Microsoft really served its users:
1/They would stop making my software incompatible with the latest version of windows.
2/ They would have at least had a new release of Visual Basic which supported the older commands which is actually basic and not turned it into a C# based programming environment.
3/ They would respect my machine and not include crapware like DRM
4/ They wouldnt have so many versions and they wouldnt cost so much. Geez didnt they get enough money from us already?
5/ They would interoperate with other OS's and wouldnt release critical upgrades that break compatibility because they can.
6/ They wouldnt upgrade your PC with silverlight hidden in a critical upgrade.
7/ They wouldnt patent stupid things with an eye to sueing others.
8/ They wouldnt use so much of the machine resources.
Get the idea????
Posted by KattyMatty | November 6, 2008 6:50 PM
What about the fact that after about 5 months of using Vista , it just plain freezes all the time?
Are they going to fix that?
Posted by Weird Al | November 6, 2008 6:53 PM
Making conclusions about pre-beta software. Joe, you have reached a new low. And you wonder why you didn't get a laptop with 7 on it? You are clearly bias.
eWeek should suspend this blog and let you go work over at Linux-Watch with your first cousin Steven Linux Nicholson or whatever his name is.
Posted by Andre Da Costa | November 6, 2008 7:19 PM
Things that suck in Vista,
1) Too much overhead for too few *good* reasons
2) Too many versions
3) Too expensive
Really in my opinion the big thing they need to is simply lower the memory footprint. Vista generally required a new PC, or at least a memory upgrade if you weren't running a relatively new PC already. For gamers or people who need every last bit of juice they can squeeze out for whatever work they do, Vista is just a no go, too much overhead for too few good reasons. I mean really Vista's new look is probably it's biggest feature for your average consumer.
Trying to figure out what version does what is too much of a pain in the ass. 2 versions at most, and ideally they should stick to just one for a desktop/non-server OS.
Needs to be cheap, for OEMs and consumers. Unless the economy takes a turn for the better it's hard to justify the cost.
Fix those 3 and even without too many new features you'll have a winner.
Posted by JMB | November 6, 2008 7:28 PM
@Andre, oh my oh my what a beautiful line you've just given us. What a total cave in of character and full disclosure of shilling. You say:
"Making conclusions about pre-beta software. Joe, you have reached a new low. And you wonder why you didn't get a laptop with 7 on it? You are clearly bias."
So you can only get a laptop with 7 on it as long you don't come up with your own conclusions? So as long as you publish somebody else's lines err conclusions you'll get a laptop. That's the definition of shilling and the lowest kind possible.
Posted by Gerardo Tasistro | November 6, 2008 7:29 PM
Andre;
Joe didn't get a laptop because he caters to the linux shills out here and the biased anti-microsoft crowd -- Which is okay, after all, this is his site.
Even I got a laptop, though far from a "softy" and I plan on melting it down and putting my favorite distro of linux on it when it becomes time to send it back.
Posted by chips$x | November 6, 2008 8:43 PM
Ah Andre lets the side down.
Quote Da Co$ta "Making conclusions about pre-beta software. Joe, you have reached a new low. And you wonder why you didn't get a laptop with 7 on it? You are clearly bias."
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Well you did the same. The only difference being you shill for MS.
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So you are bias as well then? Ive read your articles where you appear to reach the point of euphoria whilst talking about it. Maybe Joe thinks his integrity is worth more than a laptop?
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So there you go folks, if there was any question about MS's motives in giving out laptops, Andre Da Costa has answered it (thanks Andre). You wont get one unless you say nice things about MS. I wonder what other sites that have written about the laptops issue will think about that comment?
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Andre, please stop the comments towards Joe, you are acting like an child that isnt getting his way. Dont you want people to have different views? - Sorry I forgot you dont, its the MS way or nothing for you.
Posted by Goblin | November 6, 2008 8:57 PM
Dont use MS$ as its bloated DRM'd Rubbish. Use Red Flag Linux as its slim fast and chineese.
This means that Americans are going back to the jungle and going to act like monkeys. Thats right you heard it here first Balmer is a monkey.
Red Flag Linux for the chineese in you.
Posted by Red Flag Linux | November 6, 2008 9:46 PM
Goblin, please go insult yourself. Don't you have a family to raise? I am free to make my own opinion and scrutinize the authors commentary. I think thats why he has comments. You are sounding more like a dictatorship by the minute Goblin. I said what I said because its the truth. How can you come to such a conclusion about beta software? Would you like someone to say crappy stuff about Fedora 10 which is looking more like a point release than anything deserving of a full version release?
The fact that KDE 4 still suffers from issues shows that Linux is still gimmick that needs to go back into the incubator. The reviews on the street is Ubuntu 8.10 is a disappointment, the only major improvement is the 3G support. How can Joe really come to a conclusion about software that will not be completed until next year. The fact that the software was handed to developers not journalist proves my point.
As for the rest of you, its quite obvious that your mind is a terrible thing to waste. Get out of the basement and go find a job or purchase a copy of Windows Vista today and experience the richness in productivity and personal entertainment that 250 million users have since January 2007. Sorry, I just don't have the time compile my desktop, I have real things to do with my PC. Whatever rocks you are living under its seriously cramping your styles.
Posted by Andre Da Costa | November 7, 2008 1:55 AM
While Andre's comment is one that could be taken out of proportions completely (and not just could be judging by the above). I do feel there is a truth in there. Back when Mary-Jo was running this show I had a feeling she was just. Now with Joe behind the wheel I doubt that is true.
"Microsoft, I want to believe in Seven." Seriously Joe? You have no clue how much I doubt that.
Why can't you just report on facts instead of always adding your own opinion, which is clearly not in favour of Microsoft. Now I'm not asking for a fanboy to run this blog... but come on. Eweek has a name to keep up and this part of it is seriously doing it damage.
Actually try basing the above on facts. How many features has Microsoft scratched per OS? How do all speeds compare on hardware that is current during the release? Boot up times, app starting times etc.
I have beared with you for quite a bit... but I feel your blog has little more to offer than bias.
Posted by Charlie | November 7, 2008 3:40 AM
Joe said
"... While I'm really unimpressed with extent of boot-up improvements promised yesterday ...".
Really??? You mean that the loading of device drivers in parallel in Win7 instead of serially (all other Win versions) is not impressive enough in terms of the time it takes the OS to boot?
Even if that is the only change made (Microsoft has announced others as well), I predict this single change can speed up boot time by more than 30%. I you don't believe me install bootvis and see how much the gain would be if you load device drivers in parallel.
Posted by evan | November 7, 2008 3:49 AM
I like Vista.
Admittedly, I came late to the party. When I upgraded my home laptop, I went for one that still had XP because I'd heard all the negative press - without ever trying Vista myself. So, when work gave me a laptop with Vista on, SP1 had already been released and the major issues fixed.
Having come to Vista post sp1, I can't see why everyone is complaining. This laptop loads up much faster than my XP one, shuts down incredibly fast, works fast, has a nicer UI and a really easy and useful search tool in the start menu.
Sure, the UAC thing is a bit annoying and I can see why it freaks my Granny out when it comes up on her computer, but it's not as bad as I was expecting. From all the hype (anti-hype?) I'd expected the UAC to interrupt me every five minutes. Instead, it turns up maybe twice during a whole day at work. I don't see that it deserves all the fuss it received.
As I said, I started with sp1, so I can't comment about what the initial release was like. All I can say is that I like Vista and I'm looking forward to Windows 7.
Posted by Jess Meats | November 7, 2008 3:54 AM
Ok we have another Andre Da Costa here and the name is Jess Meats. Come on Microsoft cant you just shut up for a while and let the people talk and you can learn something. No Microsoft only can dictate and not serve their customer base. Marketing is that all there is to life, what about good reliable products??
Microshaft for a reason.
Posted by God Dam IT !!! | November 7, 2008 7:29 AM
Charlie;
In case you didn't read it the first line of this column reads "News Commentary". Commentary normally equates to expressing an opinion. If all you want is hard news and no thought behind it go spend your time reading the Microsoft web site.
Posted by DougE | November 7, 2008 8:30 AM
Jess Meats :wrote
"Having come to Vista post sp1, I can't see why everyone is complaining. This laptop loads up much faster than my XP one, shuts down incredibly fast, works fast, has a nicer UI and a really easy and useful search tool in the start menu. "
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With all due respect, I have a hard time believing that Vista is faster than XP. A family member recently got a Vista SP1 laptop with 1 GB of Ram. This thing was slow as molasses, we had to disable the following:
System Restore
Windows Defender
Aero
Sidebar
Indexing
Sidebar
Further tweaks..
Minimize start up programs to none. Delete the Norton antivirus and install AVG.
The boot times were faster and the shut down times were improved..but still sluggish in performance compared to XP or Ubuntu. We were trying to figure out why Vista was using about 500 MB of Ram just running the desktop....and this is after the tweaks.
Posted by Ralph | November 7, 2008 8:32 AM
@God Dam It!
I expressed a personal opinion. I wasn't trying to force my opinion on anyone else. I wasn't telling you to change your opinion. I wasn't trying to convince you that it's prefect. I just said that I like Vista and prefer it to XP. I'm entitled to my opinion just as you're entitled to yours. You don't have to be rude about it.
@Ralph
The Vista laptop is slightly more powerful than my XP one, but after all the blog posts and rants and forum threads I'd read proclaiming Vista's slowness, I was pleasantly surprised by it's load-up speed.
I have been on the Microsoft payroll for less than two months. I have been using Microsoft products since my Dad switched from the BBC computer to one with Windows 3.0. I prefer Windows to every other OS that I've tried. I prefer Office to any other office package I've tried. That's something that was true before I applied for a job at Microsoft and it's something that will be true if they fire me.
Am I allowed to express an opinion as a human being? Or is that right reserved only for users of Linux and Macs?
Posted by Jess Meats | November 7, 2008 8:56 AM
@Andre, you say:
"I said what I said because its the truth. How can you come to such a conclusion about beta software?"
Please elaborate to us what type of conclusions can be acceptably arrived to from such pre-beta software? Because the way you painted "the truth" you speak of made it sound like everyone who did get a laptop with Windows 7 pre-beta is a shill. You clearly state that making ones OWN conclusions is a reason to be excluded from having a Windows 7 pre-beta laptop. Not coming to good or bad conclusions, but coming to conclusions at all excludes you from the laptops.
Which leads us to the quintessential difference between your favorite development model and the open source one. When you say:
"Would you like someone to say crappy stuff about Fedora 10 which is looking more like a point release than anything deserving of a full version release?"
I'd say YES! Please say all the crappy stuff about Fedora, Linux and open source stuff in general. Because even when being a pro Microsoft supporter there is stuff to be learned from your point of view. And above all it shows interest and need.
Do you honestly believe NVidia and ATI would have released their drivers for Linux if nobody complained?
I'll tell you a story about two incidents related to a forum software I installed and used once. It had two problems. One was it didn't have Spanish support and the second was it didn't run well on MySQL 5.x (used a 5.x reserved word for a column as it was developed pre 5.x). I made a comment about it and got a proper sensible answer not a "shut up and keep using it as is and don't comment about it". Since the sensible answer was "there is no fix" I fixed both issues myself.
Lessons from this:
- In the open source community a comment about a limitation or lack of feature in a product is not seen as a negative opinion, but as an opportunity for improvement.
- In the open source community you can actually do something about your comment.
A while back I posted to you asking for help about the "Windows de está Reanudando" message. Which is improperly spelled and should read "Windows se está Reanudando". I didn't get any response and I'll bet that it wont' be fixed by next Tuesday's update. But who know maybe I'll be surprised this time around.
Posted by Gerardo Tasistro | November 7, 2008 10:18 AM
@Jess Meats, I think the touchy line you mentioned was "I can't see why everyone is complaining". This kinda excluded everyone else's opinions as valid.
Anyway I see where you're coming from and would add the following. You got your new computer from Microsoft(your employer) and you've been working at Microsoft for less than two months. Just wait until you've had that laptop for 6 months.
My first Vista PC was a Toshiba with dual core AMD 64 bit processors. Ran smoothly for about 4 months and then dropped down to a reliability index of about 3.7. I've installed SP1 and it is still having issues. This week's problem was the audio card is no longer detected.
My second Vista PC was a Dell Studio 17 with all maxed out (it came with SP1 too). Obviously Vista runs great. It turned a month old yesterday and I'm wondering how long it will continue to perform so well.
I got to tell you Vista flies on the Dell. But as much as Vista might look like a supersonic plane on this machine I'm sure XP would be like the shuttle in orbit compared to Vista.
Posted by Gerardo Tasistro | November 7, 2008 10:34 AM
@DougE;
True there. I'm just bummed out it went from pretty neutral to utterly biased.
Posted by Charlie | November 7, 2008 10:45 AM
@Gerardo Tasistro
Fair enough. That does make slightly more sense, but what I meant was, "I personally have read lots of complaints and I personally do not understand why there are so many because I personally have not had any issues." I never meant to suggest that people shouldn't raise valid complaints if they have had issues. The stress should be on the "I can't see" part of the sentence because I haven't seen the issues, not implying that other people are wrong for saying that they have.
As for the speed of Vista after a few months, naturally I can't comment. I've seen other people at work happily using Vista, but I can't say I've ever thought to time how long it takes their computers to turn on! Maybe in six months, I'll have a different opinion of Vista's speed. Maybe I won't. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
Posted by Jess Meats | November 7, 2008 10:55 AM
There are two dates that made Vista what it is. The first is the long period of time between the release of XP and Vista. Customers, the press, and shareholders were all screaming for Vista to get out the door.
The second date was Jim Allchin's retirement. He said it would be after Vista was released. I think the retirement date was pretty well set and Vista had to get out to meet retirement. Both these added up equal "good enough, ship it".
The biggest issue surrounding Vista is perception. Apple's ads did alot to make the customer think that Vista was really, really bad. It's not as bad as Apple has made it seem. And this is one reason Server 2008 got such good reception. Competitors aren't beating the Windows 2008 perception drum.
Posted by Craig Berntson | November 7, 2008 11:17 AM
What Seven will be. I slightly more polished Vista, and that be all it is. Its another way for Microsoft to break more software apps, advertise by name change virtually the same product, charge the public for the 99% identical code base time and time again, full price, and to install more lock-in and DRM. That what you get.
Hope those of you that get on the Windows Seven upgrade treadmill remember it can be expensive, like all windows upgrades tend to be. There is a reason for that, its called the "richness." And the richness, or money, belong to Microsoft, if you just blindly fall for another Windows upgrade cycle.
Now Andre who is the official Softie representative here, has been running amok, lately, and said Joe should not review a Windows Seven beta, because its a beta. Well, if you let it go until its finial, how you going complain about all the problems? Then your line would be, "you should have said something when it was still in development."
A few things to count on in Windows Seven: DRM is not going away. MS is counting on machines to be faster and have more resources to make the bloat more tolerable, same with netbooks. It will break even more software. And it will still be a viral target.
Posted by chips b malroy | November 7, 2008 12:10 PM
Well, it looks like I'll be running and running to spin my "upgrade" exercise wheel faster and faster-- not even two years of "life" in the marketplace.
My absolute favorite Vista infuriation: Windows Explorer, when you want to display the contents of a "symbolic link" folder *AS ADMINISTRATOR*, and it refuses to even give you the possibility of doing so. Instead of showing the usual "confirm that you really, REALLY want to do this" popup, it just says something along the lines of "sorry, Dave, I won't let you do that." With Vista, the pod bay doors won't be unlocked, because it wants to kill you, and lock all YOUR data away within hidden DRM-riddled folders.
Good riddance to ME-II. I hope the next one sucks a little less.
Posted by Mr. Hamster, spinning faster and faster | November 7, 2008 1:13 PM
Jess Meats :wrote
"I have been on the Microsoft payroll for less than two months. I have been using Microsoft products since my Dad switched from the BBC computer to one with Windows 3.0. I prefer Windows to every other OS that I've tried. I prefer Office to any other office package I've tried. That's something that was true before I applied for a job at Microsoft and it's something that will be true if they fire me."
----------------------------------------------------
I respect your honesty that you admit you work for Microsoft. Unlike others who post comments here...
Posted by Ralph | November 7, 2008 2:34 PM
Excellent!
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Oh Andre, my deluded friend. Youve now tried to change strategy, since your misleading posts from before didnt work. Although youve never answered any of the difficult questions Ive put to you about MS, I will answer your post, which I believe is possibly from an impersonator as its so full of the holes.
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Quote Andre "Goblin, please go insult yourself. Don't you have a family to raise? "
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Im not sure how one insults oneself, but Ill have a go: "Goblin you are an opensource mark who doesnt have a clue" - Is that ok Andre? Andre we have seen some of your insults here. I think it was chips who posted some of your more "angry" responses, and I think they showed a very unpleasant side to you. In answer to your question of family, the reason why Im able to post as much is because of family. Ive been given time off to look after our young'un and Im on bottle duties (every three hours) not that its relevant nor any of your MS business.
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Quote Andre "You are sounding more like a dictatorship by the minute Goblin. I said what I said because its the truth." - Andre its your MS adverts and propaganda that are more like a dictatorship. I promote freedom of choice. You promote MS. You tell me, who is the dictator? The "truth" comment is something people already know the answer to and I dont believe its in favour of MS (oh and Andre, would you like me to link the posts here where you are saying two different things or what about the figures youve quoted in the past?)
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Quote Andre "KDE 4 still suffers from issues shows that Linux" - Do you really want me to answer that? It just shows that you know nothing about Linux. What about Gnome? What about the issues of Vista? KDE has had a bad press and rightfully so, but then thats the beauty of opensource, we are not forced to use one particular package, we can choose others. I personally prefer AbiWord to Open Office, and unlike someone who is tied to MS, I can change as much as I like, and for free.
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Quote "The reviews on the street is Ubuntu 8.10 is a disappointment" What street are you looking at Andre? Microsoft.com? In anycase Ubuntu is one of many available. Horses for courses I say, MS wont say that, if we were talking about Vista.
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I wont go on, you know yourself that there is little interest in your posts. You know yourself that you are "flogging a dead horse" and your last lines in your post, I wont even quote as it simply highlights you for the desperate individual you are.
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Can you possibly lower yourself anymore? We'll see.
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and Andre, please quote ME where I made any comments about Windows 7 in regards to my experience. Ive always made it very clear that I havent used it. "How can you come to such a conclusion about beta software?" - Where are you getting that from?
Posted by Goblin | November 7, 2008 4:35 PM
My biggest peeve with Vista is the power saving modes. I close my laptop lid and the hardware stays on even though I have it configured to hybernate. I open the lid sometimes and it doesn't come back from sleep/hybernate.
This is a brand new HP laptop. Once again, my vista reliability chart is going down hill.
Posted by Rob | November 7, 2008 5:00 PM
@Andre Da Co$ta
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SEE ROBS POST (ABOVE)
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Theres another "happy" Vista customer for you Andre.
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Want to comment?
Posted by Goblin | November 7, 2008 5:36 PM
I'll add to Rob's post. My experience with Vista two weeks ago, Monday at noon at Huatulco Oaxaca. It's 31°C (88°F) in the shade, humidity is off the charts I pack my laptops and leave the air conditioned room to go to the airport.
As I take the laptops out for security check I realize the Toshiba is blazing hot. It had somehow come out of suspension inside my backpack and been active for about an hour (based on battery drain). I wonder how much heat it built in there when it was at least 88° outside the backpack.
And this is not my only experience like that with that laptop or the new Dell, just the closest one to burning the machine. In my experience Suspending with Vista risks not staying that way and Hibernation risks not coming back.
Posted by Gerardo Tasistro | November 7, 2008 6:05 PM
Windows can't reorder taskbar buttons? I had never realized that. I don't use it at all, but both KDE and Gnome were doing that years before Vista released. I just assumed Windows could probably do it to since it seemed like a good idea, but I guess it takes MS longer to copy someone else's feature than I though. No doubt when Windows 7 does release MS will also tout reordering taskbars as yet another revolutionizing innovation from Microsoft. Always late to the party and underdressed, it seems.
Posted by Bob | November 8, 2008 9:36 AM
@Bob, youre probably right, but right after they've copied that and any other ideas, they will take out patents.
Posted by Goblin | November 8, 2008 1:51 PM
I've gone from liking Vista to hating it, to liking it, to hating it again. Now I'm just annoyed by the constant string of surprises when I can't do something that I used to be able to. Just to preface, I've worked with MS OSes since the beginning, including all MSDOS and all NT versions. I'm an IT Pro and run Enterprise Application servers.
At 1st I liked some of the new UI features of Vista, and some functionality. I bought a new HP system with 3GHz dual-core 2GB RAM, but it seemed slow. My 1st disappointment. Then the UAC finally drove me NUTS! I insall a lot of different software which caused the UAC to bug the crap out of me. And the stupid part is it never remembered that I just told it something was OK to do. If they could fix that it would really help.
I finally disabled that piece of crap. Then I was happy again...until.
Tried to rename a folder, appeared to work, but then was not renamed..WTF. I AM THE ADMINISTRATOR!!! HELLO!!! k, I checked the security and permissions, made some changes.. NO GO. Finally after a long Internet search I found someone who had the answer. A 3rd party utility..again WTF. Why isn't Microsoft putting out a patch for this type of problem. That was beyond me...back to hating it again.
Ended up buying yet another system, quad-CPU Vista 64 bit (actually had the rename prob on that system). 64-bit is faster I think, and the quad-CPU doesn't hurt either. I'm using that machine as a media server and it seems to do OK. But my overall experience with Vista has been a mixed bag. As an IT Pro I was able to find solutions but I pity the poor fool who doesn't have the experience that I do and has to try to resolve these types of issues. HP wanted to bill me $60 a whack to attempt to solve my problem with no guarantee. As Sarah P said, "I told them thanks but no thanks".
Posted by Jeffer03 | November 12, 2008 4:45 PM
One could spend several hundred dollars for a new Windows operating system every six years. Or get a brand new Ubuntu operating system for free every six months.
Posted by Ralph | November 12, 2008 10:35 PM