For Vista, the problem was a large amount of application re-work, hardware upgrades costs, network problems, staff training costs, lost productivity, etc. All this with no real benefits, nothing new from what people could already do with XP.
Seems like Win7 has all the same problems. Supposedly they've addressed some of the software compatibility and network problems. Not sure about the rest. Again still no real tangible benefit to put your finger on, or to take to the CEO to get the budget approved.
Not sure it really matters to MS, since they get paid off the maintenance contracts whether the enterprises upgrades or not. And most enterprises buy the licenses and then install their corporate standard ghost image, and MS really doesn't care what that is.

The Software Compatibily problem of going from XP to Vista was the number one problem for Businesses. Since 7even is Vista, those problems of going from XP to 7even, could be even worse. This was also a problem for public as well, but the security issue is more of a problem, I believe for the general public, which by in large, lacks the knowledge to secure Windows against malware.

Businesses and users will be better off moving to linux, and dual booting with their old (xp) OS until they can break free completely. As the next Windows OS beyond 7even may not even be a windows as we know it today. It could be based on something else than the NT kernel, and break backward compatibility. This would be another huge upgrade cycle buying new software apps, in another 2 to 3 years after the advent of 7even.

A review of Windows 7even, found by way of Boycott Novell.

Windows 7-Less stable, slower, could have been called Vista SE

http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/04/10/windows-7-less-stable-slower-could-have-been-called-vista-se/

A partial quote from the above link:
"My overall impression:

Aside from that, you have to look hard to make sure you’re not on Vista (I’ve had a few Freudian slips and almost referred to it as Vista a few times so far already).

The GUI has had a few minor updates to make better use of compositing and task bar space, although the task bar is no OS X dock, and the effects are certainly no Compiz Fusion. (I have screenshots to follow)

What struck me is how people are saying it boots faster than Vista, but Vista was already like lugging around a dead elephant. It may have shaved a few seconds off that, but in my testing it has still been twice as slow from power on to login screen as compared to Jaunty. To my knowledge, there is nothing like boot chart for Windows, but my Ubuntu Jaunty clocked in at 24 seconds. I pulled out my cell phone and stop watched Windows 7 coming in at just over 49 seconds. (1 minute 9 seconds after coming up from a BSOD)

The file system is still NTFS, and I could dedicate an article bigger than this one just to why I hate NTFS, but suffice it to say that 20 years in the making and it STILL needs defragged!

I compared Sauerbraten on Windows 7 and it averaged 60 fps compared to about 160 on Windows XP and Ubuntu, the OpenGL performance on Vista and 7 just sucks."

Dear Joe,

You have been comdemning Microsoft OS from Win98 to Win 7.

But you are currently using no other than Microsoft Windows

What do you suggest ?

Why not you change to Linux and make a big annoucement to us ?

Well since no one else is going to do anything but proselytize I'll field this.

If you remember Joe, enterprises didn't just rush to XP. And no they won't rush to 7. Having tested the beta I don't think that hardware restraints will be as much of a bar to migration as it was with Vista. Driver support has also gotten better, and Microsoft is doing a better job of working with it's partners to ensure hardware compatibility.

The two obstacles will be application support and cost. The rescession will have an impact, there's no denying that. Application support will hinder smaller companies for sure. At my firm we're not doing as badly as others for IT budgeting and we already have an infrastrure that largely renders software imcompatibility moot. We've already migrated 85% of our computers to Vista, and use a combination of virtualization and application presentation to overcome compatibility issues.

A server 2008 license allows you to host an additional instance of server 2003/2008/Linux as hyper-v guests OSes. If you have Enterprise you can host up to 6 with no charge for the additional servers. If you have datacenter licensing then it's a lot more. Simply put for our more onerous applications we run them on server 2003 systems and use TSWeb and or XenApp to present those programs to users.

It's one heck of a lot less disruptive to users than booting into another OS, or operating a VM on their machines.

Of course all of this is likely beyond the budget scope of smaller companies. Many of them will most likely stick with the infrastructure they already have in place. With more and more smaller companies outsourcing applications, this might be a moot discussion in a few years.

Dear Joe,

Your half-baked technical knowledge does not mean that you can simply write without reasoning

You just recycle all the old statements and routinely publish them !

You will be asking us soon :

1) Will Enterprises rush to Windows 10
2) Will Enterprices rush to Exchange 14
2) Will Enterprices rush to Office 14

But the ultimate question is :

1) will anyone ever read the lame Eweek with Microsoft Watch ?

Will Enterprises Rush to Windows 7 ?

A very stupid question indeed during current economy downturn .

Will Enterprises open more offices ?
Will Enterprises buy more limousine ?
Will Enterprises organize family day ?
Will Enterprises pay bonus ?
Will Week.com (not enterprise yet)open more vacancies ?

No prize for the right answer as we knew the answer

Recession buoying desktop Linux, vendor-sponsored survey finds
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6982786934.html
Quote:
About two-thirds of "IT executives" responding to a Novell-sponsored survey report either "actively evaluating" or "accelerating adoption" of Linux on the desktop, Novell says. About 72 percent responded likewise for servers, although presumably the desktop category includes more evaluators, while servers have more adoption accelerators.

The survey was conducted by IDC. About 300 "senior IT executives" were surveyed via the web, according to Novell. Those surveyed reportedly represent manufacturing, financial services, retail industries, and government. All respondents worked for companies with 100 or more employees.

* 40 percent of respondents said they plan to deploy additional workloads on Linux over the next 12-24 months.

* 49 percent said Linux would be their primary server platform within five years.

* The most-selected reasons for not adopting Linux were lack of application support, and poor interoperability with Windows

* 67 percent of respondents stated that interoperability and manageability between Linux and Windows is one of the most important factors when choosing an operating system.

* The retail industry showed the greatest potential for acceleration in Linux adoption with 63 percent of respondents planning an increase on the desktop and 69 percent considering the same on the server. The government sector lagged.

* Almost 50 percent of respondents plan to accelerate adoption of Linux on the desktop, especially for basic office functions, technical workstation users, and higher education/K-12.

* Nearly half of respondents stated that moving to virtualization is accelerating their adoption of Linux. Eighty-eight percent of recipients plan to evaluate, deploy or increase their use of virtualization software within Linux operating systems over the next 12-24 months.

* From a regional perspective, Asia/Pacific is the most bullish on increasing Linux adoption, as 73 percent of respondents said they would increase deployments on the server and 70 percent on the desktop. In the Americas, 66 percent of respondents said they are either evaluating or have already decided to increase adoption of Linux on the desktop and 67 percent on the server.

* The economic crisis has had the biggest effect on the Americas, and in financial services and government. More than 62 percent of respondents said that their budget has been cut or that they are only investing where needed.

Wow, New handles pop up to dismiss Joes article. Welcome Debbie.
-
Ladies and gentlemen, its called opinion. I happen to agree with both Joe and Chips. Joe because if you ask enterprise yourself (certainly in my experiences) they DO NOT want Vista. Try it yourself.
I also agree with Chips in that 7 is simply polished Vista. If you have had software incompat with Vista then I expect that would transfer over to 7. Maybe this is why Microsoft has already announced a downgrade path to XP prior to the thing even hitting the shelves?
-
Quote Debbie "Your half-baked technical knowledge does not mean that you can simply write without reasoning "
-
and your opinion is correct one because........?
-
Why have you not challenged then some of the posters here before? Where were you when the comments of "Linux needs a compiler to play DVD's" Id suggest then that you are only interested in challenging that which you believe will harm Microsoft. Or am I wrong? Maybe you just missed the plethora of incorrect and misleading posts here in the past.
-
Quote Debbie "will anyone ever read the lame Eweek with Microsoft Watch ?"
-
Well you are, are you not? and you even felt the need to type a response. So in answer to your question, Id say yes.
-
Debbie, Id suggest if you want to claim some position of expertise over Joe and his article, you refrain from using the scener word "lame". Just a suggestion.

Goblin, stop trying to own Microsoft-Watch, other persons are free to have an opinion too. You are a perfect example of why Linux is not prospering, its just this secretly wanting to control platform supported by over zealous individuals who hate to see a successful Company such as Microsoft make products that people enjoy using.

Chips, you live in a perfect world of wishful thinking. I think your hatred and hope of mass migration from Windows to Incompatible Linux is actually helping more people choose Windows again and again. Spreading FUD about security is just an example of the deep hatred built up in the Linux movement against Windows. You are starting to predict that Microsoft will use a completely different architecture for future Windows releases. For someone who does not use Windows, you seem to think you know a lot.

Well, I have concluded you are just a conflicted mess that's trying come to grasp with your reality. I think you need to stop defending Linux, because you obviously don't use it. Since you are now a die hard Windows Vista user Chips, how has it been for you so far? You should download IE 8 RTM and check out Web Slices and Visual Search, I think you will love it!

Marco - Windows - 96% Netbooks
Linux - 4%

Next month Windows - 100% Netbooks

@chips b malroy

Well, your first reply to this atricle astounds me. On one hand you say:

"I believe for the general public, which by in large, lacks the knowledge to secure Windows against malware"

Then you suggest your solution:

"..moving to linux, and dual booting with their old (xp) OS .."

Astounding. If they can't get it together to turn on automatic updating and refuse an ActiveX control, how on earth are they going to set up dualboots with Linux and run it all securely?

The funny thing is any platform the general public adopts en masse will be the target of furious unrelenting and massive attacks at every level. If they went to Linux the malware rate would spike simply because they'd be complete newbies all over again. Imagine how many would run as Admin - only there's be no UAC!!

Besides, RedHat's list of vulnerability patches is as long as my arm. And there are so many distros each with its known and unknown vulnerabilities, many with insufficient and or difficult sometimes convoluted patch systems. It would be a nightmare of exploit.

At least a Windows system kept patched, and with a dab of sense, is relatively secure.

"Many organizations testing Windows Vista got burned by software incompatibility problems."
.
A true statement indeed. Vista was a dog when it was rolled out. Basically its Windows ME 2.
.
I am also not suprised that the cost of owning Windows 7 will go up substantially for Enterprises (and perhaps all consumers). Still it has to be better than Vista. Right Andre?

Linux:
- 2 confusing Desktop environments - GNOME and KDE with conflicting ideals. The latest KDE 4.2 continues to receive a torrent of negative feedback and GNOMEs dizzying menu scheme is sure to make you feel like you are trying to solve an Agatha Christie mystery.
- No out of the box playback for multimedia task such as audio and video and the fear in the Linux community of having to use proprietary codecs illegally to enjoy media that Windows users take for granted.
- Difficulties in software package installation, deb, rpm resulting in incompatible distributions such as Fedora, Ubuntu and over 300 more, some packages need to be downloaded and installed through the command line requiring a PHD in Operating System design and implementation with at least 10 years experience working in the field.
- Numerous software updates that leave end users with the chore of determining whether an upgrade makes sense concluding that Linux is nothing more than product immaturity.

For businesses:
You think Linux is free? If you want to base your mission critical infrastructure on Linux, you better look to a commercial offering, because Chips touting Cent OS, Fedora, or Ubuntu 8.10 to run your Airline or Banking Institution is equal to jumping off a cliff with adult consent.

A Redhat Linux license cost as much as US $200 along with yearly support fees and remember all those confusing issues I listed, yes, its part of the package (no pun intended).

Bundled software such as OpenOffice do not stack up to more polished, well tested and well used, powerful Microsoft solutions users have been using for many years and are very satisfied with. Can MrProject compare Microsoft's Enterprise Project Management solutions that professional project managers are demanding for highly complex collaborative environments where time is money and users just want to focus on getting the job done instead of looking command prompt?

Again, keeping up to date with the latest Linux patches is a challenge. The Redhat Network subscription service ($59.95 per year). So, Chips and Goblin who claim to use Linux are not telling you the whole story. Which makes me wonder, maybe they are disgruntled employees working at either Novell or Redhat trying to promote the incompatible and overly confusing platform that has so far failed to garner any momentum or support from the industry.

Windows on the other hand provides a cohesive experience. Updates are well organized according to priority: Critical, Important and Optional, organized into easy to read categories. You can never mess up either, because Windows Update always creates a Restore Point before installing every update, along with the ability to uninstall Updates in the Programs and Features applet in Control Panel.

One Desktop environment across Desktop and Server, streamlines the users experience using Windows. You can customize the interface to a great degree, if you are familiar with classic appearance, you can choose that, or the rich and compelling Aero which is not a paradigm shift conflicted by different ideologies like GNOME and KDE. The Start menu with its simplified layout with built in search makes it a cinch to find files, applications and settings.

Lets not forget about the high level of compatibility Windows offers, from hardware to software. I am sure graphics card works with Windows Vista and 7 because, yep, because its supported right out of the box and if I need an update, just go to Windows Update or the manufacturers website where I will be able to read plain english instructions in lay man terms to simply download a driver that installs in two clicks. Try doing that with Compiz in Ubuntu, try seeking help with your problem, try getting that wireless adapter working. The only help you will get from the Linux community is way back to the ease of use of Windows.

As for security, no question Windows is the best. Well implemented technologies like ASRL, Windows Firewall with Advance Security, Internet Explorer Protected Mode, Smart Screen Filter, InPrivate Mode, InPrivate Mode Filtering, Phishing Filter, Patch Guard, Device Driver Signing, UAC, Granular Group Policy editor all provide simplified, confident security experience in Windows Vista and 7. Everything works in the background so the user does not have to do any tinkering - which typical of Linux.

Windows is a way better operating system than Linux and I know its burning people like Chippendale Baxter Malroy. Chips, do the right thing, install Windows 7 beta and you will be in for a real treat. So, folks, look in Linux, but make sure you prepare for the head aches of deploying it and trying to use it. Linux is nothing but a movement designed to help someone living in a basement feel good about themselves trying to stick it to the man, when that man is problem themselves.

Love, Andre

@Clump

On this issue of dual booting. It's not a matter of know how. most IT departments could easily set up dual boot systems and teach users how to operate them. The problem is disruption of work flow.

If chips thought this through, or if he had any experience in the matter he'd recognize the absurdity of such a suggestion. Most office workers don't simply launch apps as needed. They keep them loaded at all times. E-Mail, browsers, productivity suites, what have you.... all open at the same time for 8 hours a day.

At what time would they reboot?

@Goblin:
Andre the M$ Shill says:
"Goblin, stop trying to own Microsoft-Watch, other persons are free to have an opinion too."
----------------------------------------------------
Goblin, you seem to have struck a nerve with Andre, that is good, that way you know you are getting to them. In fact, I think that the open source and Mac posters, have in fact altered Andre Da Costa. It must be true that Andre is using Mac now, as the post of his that I linked to. Could it be, that Andre is capable of learning that their is a better way than the insecure Windows malware target to surf the internet and do things? If so, and by his own words, he is a Mac user now. Andre of course will never acknowledge that Mac or Linux is far better than Vista or the newer Vista to be, Seven, as that is his source of "freebie" laptop and computers at the very least.

Andre, you accuse me of hating Windows in one post, and then you accuse me of using windows in another or about every other one. Which is it, can't you get your stories straight?
--------------------------------------------------
@Clump,
I think there is hope for you yet Clump, I have not given up on you, maybe like Andre, you will start to see the quality of Nix, and switch over to Linux or Mac (should you want to pay Apple).

clump says:
"At least a Windows system kept patched, and with a dab of sense, is relatively secure."
--------------------------------------------------
Oh come off it. Patched or not, that is not nearly enough. So much more would have to be done to get Windows even close to any type of reasonable security, and then it would never be close to the security of Linux. The most secure Windows setup I ever seen was this one company I worked for, that had about 40 computers networked, running XP. They had 2 fulltime administrator and one part-time, and had them also on call at any time. They had lots of problems, but gradually made the system more secure. At first it was done a lot and caused the company lots of money and pain. The administrators started restricting access to users. Internet access way not available to the network. For that they had to take data by burning cd's and moving to a computer with internet access that was not hooked to the internet. They restricted the use of the cdrom drives to administrator accounts only. They removing the screws that held the covers on and replaced them with rivets, and put a piece of metal over the usb ports and riveted that one. And while this did go a long way to secure this xp system from malware, it still crashed often from stability problems. Oh, I almost forgot, they disconnected the floppy drive ribbons as well.

The point being its lots harder to secure windows than it would be to dual boot. But a new user would not even have to do that. A new linux user would only have to go to www.distrowatch.com and download say Mepis 8, PCLinuxOS, Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Sidux or some of the other Live Linux CD's that are free, REBOOT, and select boot from the CD and TRY it free. Remember, since it runs from a live cd it will be slow and not all the programs will work as they cannot write anywhere. Still if the new user likes it, they can easiler install it from the live cd, and replace windows, which is probably crashed or malware infested anyway.

http://topnews.us/content/24813-conficker-installs-nasty-antivirus-software-infected-computers

Conficker installs nasty antivirus software on infected computers

Chips, you can continue to ignore the truth that Windows is a better product. I see you have become so frustrated, you have even resorted to promoting Mac OS as a better OS than even Linux. How pitiful! LOL! Linux tries so many ways of making users try its platform, but it ultimately fails because Linux is just not easy to use, its not easy to configure, its not easy to customize. It does not work the way users expect.

Chips, you keep coming to this security issue, well, if Windows is not secure, why is it being used by over a billion users world wide? Windows Server owns 70% of the market and growth is expected to increase by 12% by 2012 into a 59 billion dollar market. Windows is driving this industry forward. Every year it has been predicted as Year of Linux since 1993, only to turn out being a vapor thought.

Chips, you can continue to call me a 'Shill', I realize that's the word you love to hide behind when I talk the truth and you cannot counter it. All the points I have listed in my previous post have really destroyed your incomplete dream of Linux one day even gracing a mainstream desktop. The only success that is achieved by Linux is frustration. You talk about how difficult it is to secure a Windows system. Another sad sign that you have never used a Windows system. Stop the hear say from your own Linux choir boys Chips, because its nothing but a flawed theory looking for validation that's nowhere in sight.

If you didn't read it the first time, let me repeat again, it seems the scary fonts on Linux are starting to make you go blind too:
"As for security, no question Windows is the best. Well implemented technologies like ASRL, Windows Firewall with Advance Security, Internet Explorer Protected Mode, Smart Screen Filter, InPrivate Mode, InPrivate Mode Filtering, Phishing Filter, Patch Guard, Device Driver Signing, UAC, Granular Group Policy editor all provide simplified, confident security experience in Windows Vista and 7. Everything works in the background so the user does not have to do any tinkering - which typical of Linux."

You can continue to try and make Linux a religion, but people are looking for a solution, productivity and enjoying their lives and family. Windows has provided this experience to hundreds of millions users world wide.

Worldwide software revenue year-over-year growth rates 2006-2013 (Source: IDC)
Quote:

The recession, combined with a move toward virtualization, is slowing the growth in the server market in general, suggests IDC. Looking at the overall ecosystem, which includes hardware spending, Linux is growing at a nine percent 2009 rate, which is STRONG relative to the other OSes, but lower than was previously projected by IDC. Trends in server sales include a growing percentage of sales of commercial Linux server platforms compared to free open community-based offerings (see diagram farther below).
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7546645167.html

------------------
Nobody has ever waited for Linux to take Ms' 'throne' in a relatively short period of time. This is a long process due to the fact that man is a creature of habit and to break these habits nothing short of a violent upheaval is needed. Nobody foresaw the massive disaster that Vista turned out to be (Ms' fault). Then along came the credit crunch. The two together caused that Ms became 'eroded'-though obviously Ms is not on its last gasp. The end of Ms is not what is sought either, but rather for it to be reduced to the size it ought to have been originally: a company at our service...not the other way around.

But the erosion is ongoing and only those who have vested interest on Ms will not see it. The others will just look back to how things were last year and realise of the HUGE changes which have transpired (if anybody doubts this, merely compare the news).

New ransomware holds Windows files hostage, demands $50
'Sobering' turn by crooks 'doesn't bode well,' says researcher

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=cybercrime_and_hacking&articleId=9130539&taxonomyId=82&intsrc=kc_top

"Cybercrooks have hit on a new twist to their aggressive marketing of fake security software and are duping users into downloading a file utility that holds users' data for ransom, security researchers warned today.

While so-called scareware has plagued computer users for months, those campaigns have relied on phony antivirus products that pretend to trap malware but actually only exist to pester people into ponying up as much as $50 to stop the bogus warnings."
--------------------------------------------------
Yep, its another Windows Malware folks, the viral typhoid Jane of Operating Systems. Do yourself a favor people, download and try a free linux live cd today at www.distrowatch.com and escape the problems of windows, malware and software incompatabilities moving from XP to 7even/vi$ta. Windows is going to become an increasingly expensive upgrade cycle, as the next version of Windows is likely to not be based on the NT kernel. so all that new software that you have to buy to run on Seven/Vi$ta, will likely have to be repurchased if still available, for the next system in another 2 to 3 years.

@chips b malroy

No matter what the platform/OS, every company doing the computer thing - and that's nearing 100% - has to make a decision(s) about the Internet. But that goes for every platform . A business also has to decide what privleges people get.

In that regard all these systems are very similar. There can be various arguments made on specific architectures but over all, let's just say, organizations have to decide how much they trust the users of these systems.

If the same company were running linux on its boxes, they would again have to decide if everyone will run with admin privleges or no, what software can be run, whether things can be downloaded and run from the Internet. I don't know what delusion you are under, but linux is not specially golden. It has, can, and probably will be compromised. RedHat has a vulnerability patch list as long as my arm and then some.

Now if people en masse went with linux, the nightmare would begin. Hundreds of disrtos with dozens upon dozens of differing patch systems, dozens of kernels and innumerable libraries, everything forked, the spread of innumerable distros deliberately backdoored and so on. It would be a quagmire of compromise computing the world has never seen.

@Marco,
Nice post. Marco, did you see my post linking to Andre's comment that he loves Mac more than Windows? You can tell the Softies are in trouble, when they have so much fear trying to fight us.

"first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you."

"and then they lose."

Software compatibility is the number one problem for lots of users, especially businesses. 7even is going break a lot of that. And the next OS beyond 7even is most likely going be using a kernel based on Singularity or Midori. This is going be a gold mine for MS and 3rd party developers as its very doubtful that NT software will work for these, requiring users and businesses to purchase all new 3rd party apps.
--------------------------------------------------

The Malware that Murders Windows

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2344677,00.asp

"Malware usually makes Windows run badly, but it usually wants to keep it alive. Not always. The S21sec Labs blog details a few examples of malware that deliberately kills Windows.

The three examples are InfoStealer, Zeus/Zbot and Nethell/Ambler. All are bot software in which the botnet actually has a command to kill the operating system.

Nethell deletes Windows loader files NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR after clearing their Hidden/System/Read-Only attribute bits and then reboots.

InfoStealer deletes every driver in the System32 directory and a few critical registry keys for good measure.

Zeus/Zbot deletes the entirety of these registry hives and branches"

"Now if people en masse went with linux, the nightmare would begin. Hundreds of disrtos with dozens upon dozens of differing patch systems, dozens of kernels and innumerable libraries, everything forked, the spread of innumerable distros deliberately backdoored and so on. It would be a quagmire of compromise computing the world has never seen"

Since Windows.

Didn't Microsoft give us figures a few months ago which showed Linux adoption in the business at around 5%. If that is true then these figures are not representative.

http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/macbook/microsoft_ceo_scoffs_at_mac_share_gains.html

There are no actual figures there but licensed Windows is only 66% of businesses.

Does this mean that the survey only covered part of the 66% of businesses that actually pay for Windows?

@Philosopher

Here's just one Linux vulnerability list:

https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/rh21es-errata.html

More holes than swiss cheese. Now imagine innumerable linux distros, innumerable forks, dozens of linux kernels and dozens upon dozens of libraries, innumerable un-centralized patch systems, a hundred million linux users running as Admin, a whole cottage industry of organized criminals spreading backdoored distros of linux with few people savvy enough to able to verify a real copy from a fake. It would make what happened to the Windows platform back at the turn of the millenium look like rock solid security.

So thanks but no thanks linux.

Hey Andre,

How many computers have you received over the years at no charge, to ahem, review MS products?
.
In your opinion, does that impact your 'reviews'?

Sorry folks for the unusual long delay in reply, myself and my good wife and kids have just been around my mothers house for a meal.
-
Andres back!....and this time its not cutnpaste.
Great.
Ill do you the courtesy of responding (which is something you rarely do)
-
Quote "Goblin, stop trying to own Microsoft-Watch"
-
Im not, please show me where I am. Andre please dont mark your return with lies like you did before (IMO). Justify your remark or retract it.
Its funny Mr Da Costa, from the way youve posted in the past I think that claim could be made of you. Whilst you post your PR and have convenient "friends" who popup with foul language, I put it to you that, that was your intention. Youve failed IMO.
-
Andre, I hope you dont mind if I pick and choose some of your latest classics since whilst Id love to look at all of them, I dont have the time at the minute. If you manage to find an argument to respond with then maybe I will later.
-
Quote "2 confusing Desktop environments - GNOME and KDE with conflicting ideals."
-
Eh? You either choose Gnome or KDE, nothing confusing, what conflicting ideals? I prefer Gnome, others KDE. What does it matter?
-
Quote "Chips, you can continue to ignore the truth that Windows is a better product."
-
Andre you have the nerve to talk about truth? You couldnt even acknoledge the allegation against you. Im sure Windows is a better product for you since you are running it on a free gift from Microsoft. You were challenged on several sites in regards to this, and Id suggest that this is one of the many reasons why your twitter/blog and posts here generate very little interest in terms of being taken seriously.
-
Quote "Chips, you keep coming to this security issue, well, if Windows is not secure, why is it being used by over a billion users world wide?"
-
We've covered this before Andre. The evidence of how many institutions/users have fallen victim is well documented and still happening now. As I said to clumps, just because more people use it doesnt make it better.
Look at history, at one point there was nothing wrong with smoking and everyone did it. The truth is somewhat different now that people are more informed is it not?
-
Quote Andre "Chips, you can continue to call me a 'Shill', I realize that's the word you love to hide behind when I talk the truth and you cannot counter it."
-
Andre, people just have to check back to see the countless posts where you refuse to answer. You havent even got the honesty to respond to the laptop incident, yet you accuse Chips of the same. Maybe you should bring back CC.Torment? Oh no, you wont do that because that handle got some bad MS PR over on #microsoft and various sites.
-
Andre I dont believe you to be a shill because I think any credibility you may have had is now gone. If Microsoft is in the habit of paying people, I cant see you being value for money since not even Microsoft employees want to associate with your posts (Jess Meats) I think you cling onto your pro-MS stance since you live in hope of receiving further gifts, but just like the email which was linked where you are pleading for a Mac (which you still havent answered) I think your loyalities will go where ever the gifts are. (IMO)
-
Maybe Andre if you commented on the past allegations made against you, then you could start again. BTW Andre, have you ever googled your name?
-
Moving on, to anyone reading this who may not have come across Mr Da Costa, I ask that you dont take anyones word here about him. Do your own research and see how this "user" was being challenged as a PR cutnpaster as far back as 2007.
-
If anyone wants to gauge the level of impartiality and honesty that Andre operates from, Ill refer you to a comment of his:
"Vista is loved"
Do I need to say more?

Simply another case of Microsoft FUD.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4958089290.html
Quote:
LeBlanc's claim that Microsoft Windows products, primarily Windows XP, run on 96 percent of netbooks might have been based on December 2008 through February 2009 numbers cited by the NPD Retail Tracking Service. While it does appear to be true that Windows XP has been gaining market share in recent months over Linux, the NPD numbers track in-store sales from brick-and-mortar retail stores, where Linux options are often not available, and do not appear to cover online sales. What's more, the NPD numbers only cover U.S. sales, where Windows predominates, while Linux is more popular in Europe and elsewhere.
---------------------------
Andre Da Costa : Next month Windows - 100% Netbooks

Sorry, are you the same Andre that predicted the success of Vista?
He,he.

----------------------------

Reason why Linux might to regain some of its early market.

Quote;

Looking forward, there are several reason to believe that Linux might at least start to regain some of its early market share if not increase it. These include:

* Growing awareness of Linux -- Consumer recognition of Linux's existing strengths in anti-virus protection, fast boot times, and for some users, modifiable, open source software, is likely to grow.

* Improving Linux -- Increasingly user friendly Linux distributions, including a new Moblin v2 for Netbooks, and more and more software and peripheral support should eventually get noticed.

Always Innovating's
ARM Cortex-based Touch Book
(Click for details)

* Android -- HP, Asus, Acer, and others are evaluating the Linux-based, Google-sponsored Android as a potential netbook OS with consumer appeal. Ovum, which like NPD, also noted a swing towards Windows XP in netbooks, believes that Linux can ride back to prominence in the segment with Android running on sub-$200 netbooks. According to recent reports, Acer is pushing forward with its Android smartphone, but believes that Android is not yet ready for netbooks. On the other hand, the same Acer executive who was said to be skeptical of Android (Senior VP Jim Wong), was quoted as saying he had similar reservations about the upcoming Windows 7.

* ARM appeal -- The ARM-based netbooks are coming, most based on Cortex-A8-based system-on-chips like the Texas Instruments OMAP3x and the Freescale i.MX515, and Cortex-A8-like Qualcomm Snapdragon. The vast majority are likely to run Linux, and at least initially won't run Windows, and will also offer clear-cut advantages over the Intel Atom and other x86 processors on battery life and fast boot-up, two of the keys to netbook success.

Great post Marco.
-
Andre says "Spreading FUD about security is just an example of the deep hatred built up in the Linux movement against Windows"
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Er Andre, look at todays news:
"1 in 5 Windows PCs still hackable by Conficker"
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9131501
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Who's spreading the FUD Andre?

While the netbook is to important marked for open source (really ALL the IT Markets are) the general job is done.
Its 2 cows are drying and it(MS) is fighting for them! yes, gentleman don't lose the perspective the powerful MS is fighting for its life now (Who could think that 2 years ago?).
Quote:
TTT : I'm a member of the LiveLabs team that got moved into the mobile team... But, then in the macro perspective we are needed to fight the bigger challenges. It is time for us to give our best to the frontline where we are competing the fiercest... When you do firefighting your Piano lessons can wait.
---------------
The others Markets?
Mobile: you know
Internet: you know
Music: you know
I would have to continue?
He,he.

Andre Da Costa :wrote

"Chips, you can continue to ignore the truth that Windows is a better product."
______________________________________________

Windows is a virus magnet, it is expensive to maintain (reinstall every year or so, expen$ive antivirus programs, bloat, performance problems) unless maybe one is lucky enough to have 4 GB of RAM, and the huge hard drive space Vista needs.

Face it, businesses in this economy no longer have the unlimited funds to buy new equipment just to accommodate Vista or its slightly slimmer brother....Windows 7.

Our computers at work run XP Pro on 128 MB ram, you think they are going to spend thousands on new equipment so they can run Vista or 7 ? If you think so I have a bridge to sell you.

If businesses want to save money and time, go to Linux. No need to buy new desktops and also save a bundle on license fees and expensive upkeep. Plus you can run the desktops night and day with little or no memory leakage.

Proprietary software is on the way out....

Chips, Goblin, Marco, I know you feel like you are making an impact. Sorry, you are not. You are the same folks who predicted that Netbooks would be the break out form factor for Linux where Windows would never get anywhere on. Look now, 96% market share and I am sure the other 4% is just in the process of formatting that junk called Ubuntu and getting ready install Windows and Windows Live Essentials and experience the best in ease of use, cohesiveness and simplicity with it comes to engaging with their media and immersive and enriching way. Linxu - frustration, complexity, psychiatrist, Tylenol, lame and not going anywhere.

I simply don't need to defend anything here. The people have spoken, its Windows, it works, its a win,win. Its just that I don't want to see Goblin, Chips and Marco throw away their lives using Linux.

Andre:
Excuse me but you're a guy completely discredited. I do not see why I could lose my time answering you.
Farewell.

Quote Andre "Chips, Goblin, Marco, I know you feel like you are making an impact. "
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No I dont. I just challenge dubious and incorrect posters. People dont have to listen to anything I say. The fact that you have to tell me Im not making an impact makes me feel like I am.
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Quote Andre "You are the same folks who predicted that Netbooks would be the break out form factor for Linux where Windows would never get anywhere on."
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Liar. No I didnt.
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Quote Andre "Look now, 96% market share"
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Andre, we have repeatedly said popularity doesnt make for a good product. I am not sure how much clearer I have to make my stance on this. You claim to be a "tech enthusiast" yet you think having Gnome/KDE is confusing (btw there are others aswell, which you would know if you had more than a half knowledge) and now you cant grasp what I have repeatedly said to you.
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Andre Da Costa, in this thread you claim that chips cant answer you because you speak the truth, yet you didnt answer any of the points I put to you. Remember "LaptopGate"? I had to ask you 14 times before a convenient online "friend" showed up and answered for you.
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Quote Andre "I simply don't need to defend anything here. The people have spoken,"
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What people Andre? The people here? The people on nearly every tech forum who are championing alternatives to Microsoft?
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Before you say that Chips cant answer you because "you tell the truth" why not then you answer my points?
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Quote Andre "Its just that I don't want to see Goblin, Chips and Marco throw away their lives using Linux. "
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Thanks very much, its appreciated. Ill use that as your latest slogan. Im sure it will do your integrity some good. Andre, you must be the only person to realize that for you and your tech advice (IMO) the game is up. Theres no more bullying alternative views to Microsoft, because unlike a year or so ago when you directed disgraceful behaviour towards chips, you now no longer have the support. Even your pro-MS collegues are not showing up and the only support you get is from foul mouthed sock puppets you create yourself.
There are too many voices now, so any decisions users make are on the basis of informed choice/research not propaganda and cutnpaste comments like yours.
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I have no problems with people choosing Windows as their platform of choice (and Im sure the others feel the same way) as long as that choice is as a result of their own research and honest held belief, not dubious posts like yours.

Andre Da Costa the M$ shill:
You never give up do you Andre, that is what I like about you. Just the fact that you are here fighting on behave of M$ is enough reason to know they are scared. What have they lost now, 7%, 8% of the desktop market share since the high point of 95.3% ? And that is from the Net Apps site that is bought and paid for with MS and Apple money, using mostly USA sites. The truth is more likely they have lost more percentage than that world wide, and not some much to Mac, as to Linux. M$ does its best to suppress the truth, as that is evidence and your presence here as well. But even your hero, Steve Ballmer has said that Linux, not Mac is Micro$oft biggest competition.

The fact that you never give up is what I like about you Andre, and why should you give up, this is how you get paid isn't it? Or do you work so cheaply with just the free computers as we have documented.

The other thing I like about you Andre, is your sock puppets/other handles-names are so easy to detect. And I love your comments about Windows Malware. You see, I have been using these, simply because you and M$ do not seem to have a clue what regular Windows users are going through with the malware problems. Most XP users have a high level of malware infestation. Who do you think they believe, Andre, me when I tell them that Windows is insecure by default, or you when you tell them its their fault for being dumb and that windows is the more secure OS in history? See that reasoning is killing M$, keep it up please.

To Chips:
"The fact that you never give up is what I like about you Andre, and why should you give up, this is how you get paid isn't it?"

Really I (almost) understand Andre (but I don't excuse his behavior), The credit crunch is terrible even in USA . Can you imagine it in Jamaica? Now we understand, why he never give up.

@Marco who says:
"Really I (almost) understand Andre (but I don't excuse his behavior), The credit crunch is terrible even in USA . Can you imagine it in Jamaica? Now we understand, why he never give up."
----------------------------------------------------
Maybe the reason that M$ likes to use shills in other countries is for this reason, so we will take it easy on them and feel sorry for them. Also, it would be harder for people to try them in with M$, or to sue M$ for the actions of these shills. Its still wrong and unethical. Most likely very illegal too.

But you have to love the fact that Andre and his sock puppets have basically been calling M$ customer dumb because the users cannot protect it. When it comes that way by default, that is how people are going use it. Its up to the makers of an Operating System to do the correct thing and setup an OS that is "SECURE BY DEFAULT," and not leave it to guesswork by inexperienced users, the general public. Micro$oft has been blaming its users too long, and this is part of whats causing the defections to alternatives. Please M$, kept insulting your customers, kept using your $hill Andre and his sock puppets to insult your customers, PLEASE!

Goblin :wrote

"Andre, we have repeatedly said popularity doesnt make for a good product."
__________________________________________________

Hamburgers are a great analogy. McDonalds sold Billions and they are still likely Number 1 in sales. Yet it would be safe to say anyone here could likely make a even better hamburger. But would that better hamburger outsell McDonald's hamburger? Unlikely

But why would anyone "settle" for just a hamburger...when they can make a better one at home?

Why should anyone just "settle" for Windows when there are "tastier" options out there?

Hi Ralph!
Great hamburger example! Just dont forget Andre is only posting because he doesnt want to see us throw our lives away over Linux!?!?!!
-
Maybe we should all take a leaf out of Andres book and start copy & pasting from the Microsoft site in the hope we get sent free gifts.
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I think it no coincidence that we see an increase in pro-MS baseless remarks as we approach the release of what I believe Microsoft are worried about ....Ubuntu 9.04.
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If I came on here and started championing something like BEos or similar, I dont think we would see one pro-MS remark, since there is no threat there whatsoever. If I came here and started saying about the benefits of Workbench 1.3 I dont think we would see anything of Andre. The fact that a title such as "Will Enterprises Rush to Windows 7" can provoke so many handles to "come out of the woodwork" suggests to me that they are worried about something. They need not be, if, as Andre says "Vista is loved" then theres really little point in them posting.
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I post to counter the silly notion that the only IT solution is a Microsoft one. I wonder why they post, when by their own words everyone loves Microsoft products?

Well, if there's one thing to be said for Andre, it's that his Kung-FUD is strong.

Just in this topic he's posted a wall of baseless claims that, if he stands by them, reveal him to be either hopelessly clueless and out of touch with reality, or an outright liar. I'm afraid his words have left him no other position to take.

Actually my take is that Free Open Source programs that run on Windows are a much bigger concern to MSFT for the moment. I am talking Open Office in particular. Dual booting with Linux is likely another concern they don't mention in public.....yet.
----------------

Also Linux servers could very well save a company in license fees while still keeping Windows on the desktop...for awhile. Once the Linux servers are in place the transition to Linux desktop is easier.
-----------------

But the biggest concern MSFT faces are the open source mandates by government agencies and companies. No amount of "deals and price breaks" can change a mandate.
------------------
Open source mandates will change the software landscape forever in the years ahead. MSFT might want to look toward what Red Hat is doing...and maybe head in that direction. Paid support for Open source software...that is where the future lies...

The fact that all netbooks use the cheaper and faster XP instead of Vista is a testament to the fact that Linux has made a very big impact. Without Linux, Microsoft would not have allowed XP on these machines and there would not be a netbook market.

Microsoft ends up losing revenue which means they have less profit to batter the rest of the industry with.

Quote:

"On the other hand, while the Linux/open-source crowd has tried to follow this same path, the lack of a single OS and UI has kept it from gaining strong support from the software community. There are too many different versions of Linux for personal computers and too many user interfaces, making it difficult for the software community to rally around any single version. Tim Bajarin - PC Magazine"

I think that paragraph says it all. The analogies between operating systems and fast food are completely different and don't make any sense. You buy a computer to get work done and be productive over a long period of time. Fast food is as the name implies, a quick on the go substitute for a regular meal. I just can't see the comparisons. Windows has been licensed for over a billion PC's because people see value in PC's, businesses depend on Windows to run their mission critical infrastructure. Individuals depend on Windows to get their work done and manage their digital life.

A burger does one thing, satisfies hunger.

Chips, its quite obvious you are a dishonest person by nature. You tell lies, make up accusations that are not true when things are not going your way. I have to honestly ask, how do you maintain a living when all you do is tell lies on everyone around you? People have discovered you Chips, you are self absorbed, you are stubborn, you are nonsensical, clueless, out of touch and just frustrated that hundreds over millions of people are secure, productive and healthy with Windows. Well, I am sorry, I can't help you with your conflicted issues. Its not my fault you are probably disgruntled, unproductive, jobless individual who chose the wrong operating system and didn't learn the right choice and you are now paying the consequences for that decision.

Its not too late, go down to Fry's, buy a copy of Windows Vista with SP1 and Office 2007 Home and Student and brush up and maybe you can still join the world and be a better, productive individual. But, using an incompatible system such as Linux is not gonna make you marketable Chips, it will only make you depressed, conceited, miserable, complicated and very obsolete and out of touch like the Linux operating system itself. Even Linus Torvalds own family use Windows.

Andre Da Costa :wrote

"Its not too late, go down to Fry's, buy a copy of Windows Vista with SP1 and Office 2007 Home and Student and brush up and maybe you can still join the world and be a better, productive individual."
____________________________________________________

For the price of those items, one can buy a nice Mini 9 netbook with Ubuntu from Dell, and not have to worry about viruses, malware, memory leaks or expensive antivirus programs. Since Ubuntu comes with Open Office...there is no need to spend extra $$$ for some proprietary Office program.

@Ralph:
As usual I like your advice far more than Andre's. Buying Vi$ta down at Frys? Really, Vista is maybe the only M$ OS that when it came out you could instantly buy if for a lot less on ebay than the stores, and for a whole lot less on Ebay than XP Pro on Ebay. That should tell users that Vista maybe is not so loved, maybe not even remotely liked. Really I like being able to surf the internet and get my email with GNU/Linux without FEAR that Windows users have. While safe surfing is a good practice, still, for Windows users, Fear is a terrible thing.

I think Andre is going threw some inner (cc) "torment" phase somehow. But he is right about one thing, when he called me "stubborn." Yep, I am stubborn, and maybe there are more stubborn people here posting as well, that Andre and the puppets will not be able to counter with their FUD. Speaking of the FUD, Andre makes the statement: "Even Linus Torvalds own family use Windows." UNTRUE, Andre, you should have said: "Some of Linus Torvalds own family use Windows." But I believe that would not include those living in his house as well. Would also point out that while what Linux Torvalds did was great, the kernel, was only about 20 to 30 mb's in size and makes up a small part of the GNU/Linux Operating System as its really known by its full name. More of the credit might go to Richard Stallman than Linus if truth be known, although that is not to minimize the contribution of other including Linus Torvalds.

But that is the way GNU/Linux is made, software is GPL, which is a type of Freedom that Windows will never be. As Micro$oft is about extraction of every last dollar that it can get.

Why get into specifics about Linus Torvalds family? I said his family, regardless it might be specific members, his family uses Linux, his blood relatives. You have such a negative perception of Windows its really pathetic. Whoever is feeding you this negative nutrition is doing a good job. Where is Stallman today? The last time I checked, he is trying to create a completely free GNU operating system since 1982, which is more theory than actual code. That's the level of time wasting that exist in the Linux movement. Chips, accept it, you have a problem, its not me, its not Windows, its not Microsoft. Its the fact that you made the wrong choice of choosing the very Incompatible Linux and you feel hopeless. So you choose to make the best of it by being negative. I can't help you recover from the mistakes of the past Chips, but I can help you make the best of it now and move forward by downloading Windows 7 RC when it becomes available. I am really disappointed you are like this.

Quote: "you could instantly buy if for a lot less on ebay than the stores, and for a whole lot less on Ebay than XP Pro on Ebay."

So you have been looking? It seems you did buy Vista and you are actually using it. So I was wrong after all. My apologizes, I knew you could do it Chips, I knew you could do it! Everybody, Chips is now a Windows Vista user - a negative one, none the less, a Windows user. Make sure you download the free Windows Live Essentials - download.live.com!

:)

Yep, no rush. We just finished our transition to XP.

@chips b malroy

What' your favourite Linux game, Kill Bill or Reversi ? Or are you too busy patching Linux to be playing games:

https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/rh21es-errata.html

@Andre Da Costa

Thank you for making good sense in these reply columns. I particularly like your helpful attitude towards chips b.

Andre Da Costa the M$ shill that uses Mac OS X says :

"Why get into specifics about Linus Torvalds family? I said his family, regardless it might be specific members, his family uses Linux, his blood relatives."
------------------------------------------------------
I believe that Jamaica is an English speaking country is that correct? If so, your sentance implies that "all" of Torvalds family uses Windows, not true and you know that. Specifies count, a word here can change the whole meaning. And how like you to try to twist the truth.

As far as me buying Windows, dream on. I buy and sell a lot of things on ebay, so I am there a lot. But checking the OS section is something I do once in awhile. Also I read an article about Vista being cheaper on ebay than in the stores by a lot. So I was curious on the price, I have to admit that, but I would never buy it, much less want it. Real People have offered to give me Vista, and I have refused it. But I do occasionally surf the OS section of ebay, not for Windows, not even for Linux (which I can download) or Mac, but for some rather obsure software.

But you Andre, I am concerned about, you seem out of touch, some sort of inner (cc) torment. Its like you are morphing into someone else?

BTW Andre, quoting Tim Bajarin - PC Magazine is fine, but common curtsy is to also provide the link! Some out there might not be as trusting as me, and might think you accidentally left out an important word or something. Like the Family thing you just did.

@chips b malroy

"But you Andre, I am concerned about, you seem out of touch, some sort of inner (cc) torment."

It's called projection chips b. You are projecting your own disassociative disorder and depressed state [caused by linux use] onto a perfectly healthy Windows user.

The living in denial and being bored to tears with nothing to do but file serving, the endless hole patching of a shoddy distro, having to bear with one eye seeing the pathetic failure of linux yet with the other unforgivingly jealous eye you see the success of Windows .. all that takes its toll, especially since Linux users are isolated sad lonely individuals to begin with. If I used linux, I'd be depressed too.

Exchange of vociferous words keep this blog alive.

Neither experince nor advice is shared

Joe is still happpily blogging with his Windows Vista but vehemently condemn it ...

Accroding to my IE8 warning , this page has been modified by IE8 to help prevnt cross-site scripting

So blame it on Microsoft IE....?!

First off Debbie, if youre going to attempt a sesquipedalian angle whilst posting here, I suggest you learn to spell your posts correctly, lest you look like someone pasting impressive/long words into your text simply to impress.
-
Without intending it (and in regards to Andres Linux experience/knowledge) "Neither experince nor advice is shared " is so ironic.
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Not that incorrect spelling is not an issue, Im a bad speller by nature. But "experince" cant be excused if you are trying to impress.
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Has everyone noticed how new handles appear to support Andre?
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Has everyone noticed how even when I call him a liar (which he is) he wont answer, thats because hes well aware of how weak his argument is.
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@Clump - You havent challenged any of my points about gaming have you? again, if you cant answer simply ignore.
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In answer to your question. A decent Linux game would be WoW. It runs better on Linux than it does on Windows. (Check it out for yourself)
Clump "Or are you too busy patching Linux to be playing games:" - No thats the remit strictly of Windows is it not? Checked the security issues over the easter break? LOL.
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Even hotmail couldnt "keep it up" over the easter rest, and didnt it have a little outage? As Andre would say "It was an unfortunate incident"

It is a free world.

I have the right to express my viewpionts even though it was written in bad English and spelling

A decent Linux game ? I think you are recycling April Fool jokes

If I were to annouce that Microsoft declare bankrupt and all its products ceased

Will you( those condemn Microsoft)sleep better tonight ?

"Accroding to my IE8 warning , this page has been modified by IE8 to help prevnt cross-site scripting
So blame it on Microsoft IE....?!"

The IE cross-site scripting detection is broken, so yes, blame IE. The NoScript XSS filter is not triggered by the same false positive.

Debbie, the number one bug is that Microsoft has an aggressive dominance of this industry, not that they exist. I think most people would be happy with Microsoft producing a product in a marketplace with proper competition.

P.S. Windows users can thank competition for the security in Vista and the taskbar and performance improvements in 7. Without Linux and OSX people would be told that insecurity and constantly having to upgrade your PC was normal. Firefox is the only reason that we have IE 7 and 8.

Competition is good for everyone so I don't know why MS supporters want them to have 100% of the market. You should be supporting the competition because it benefits you too. Unless you are being paid for your support of Microsoft?

So let me ask this question:

Why would you NOT support competition for Microsoft if it makes for a better product in the end?

quote "It is a free world. "
it sure is, and i think youve answered your own question when you said "will anyone ever read the lame Eweek with Microsoft Watch ?"
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quote "If I were to annouce that Microsoft declare bankrupt and all its products ceased
Will you( those condemn Microsoft)sleep better tonight ?"
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I certainly wouldnt, what would make sleep better would be the knowledge that the underhanded practices that have been alleged at MS would never happen. If everyone posted here from a position of impartiality, that would make me sleep better.
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Since I make a living from MS products, I certainly wouldnt be happy if they ceased trading.

Gaming? Seriously? I don't see gaming as such a big deal in an OS debate.

If you want to game, go get a PS3,Xbox 360, or Wii. It will be less expensive than upgrading a computer every year or two in order to keep up with the latest demanding games. And, like it was said before, you just put in the disc and play. No worrying about glitches and workarounds for this video card or that video card, no worrying about subpar performance because your machine isn't the latest and greatest. Just put in the disc and play. The only problem you might have if you are one of the xbox owners on their 4th RROD or with a scratched disc, two well documented problems for that console. But other than that, pick a platform or three and have fun.

Last I checked, computers were supposed to be about getting productive stuff done. The only major PC-exclusive game that I can think of at the moment is WoW, which runs just fine on Windows, OSX, and Linux, so again, I don't really see what difference gaming makes here.

Quote:
"As for security, no question Windows is the best."

This is the dumbest statement I have read in this forum..I don't know what world this guy lives in..but even windows users know how insecure windows is...where the hell did he get that crap from ?...linux & even alot of windows users openly admit that linux is more secure by design than windows...and after reading this forum for a while I just find it frickin amazing that the Pro-Ms crowd are spouting that every linux user is just foaming at the the mouth to covert everyone to use linux...

Quote:
"As for security, no question Windows is the best."

This is the dumbest statement I have read in this forum..I don't know what world this guy lives in..but even windows users know how insecure windows is...where the hell did he get that crap from ?...linux & even alot of windows users openly admit that linux is more secure by design than windows...and after reading this forum for a while I just find it frickin amazing that the Pro-Ms crowd are spouting that every linux user is just foaming at the the mouth to covert everyone to use linux...

@Goblin

WoW !? Isn't that the same game Apple users toot as proof that their platform is a 'fun' platform!?

LOL

Now if only one could play Red Alert 3 all stops pulled. But you can't. Because these platforms [Apple/Linux] don't have games. They have nothing. And they are no fun. But don't let me be the one to take your rose coloured glasses off for you. Keep playing WoW. You can hook up with some Apple users and convince yourselves how much fun you are having. Why you could play Wow of to the end of time. Looks like you`re gonna have to.

Ha ha ha

Clump: I hate to break the bad news, but PC gamers are a very very small market. Developers hate writing for an inconsistent platform and having to use copy protection schemes that break their users computers.

For the user it is a nightmare of constant upgrades, driver tweaks etc. It is far easier to play a console.

This article is about Enterprises, I seriously doubt they see the ability to play Red Alert as a feature.

eh?
Quote Clump "Now if only one could play Red Alert 3 all stops pulled."
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I dont want to play Red Alert 3 (or certainly havent experienced 1 or 2, so I dont know what Im missing?!?!)
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Since when has the justification for choosing Windows been games? WoW is one example and the Wine Compat was prompted by demand. Another is the COD series, again presumably prompted by demand, and again reported as running better than native Windows. I took the liberty of looking over on the Wine site and it appears compat for Red Alert 3 is being worked on, so if its as great as you suggest then Im sure many will look forward to it.
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Im not really interested enough in games to be particularly bothered. The only reason I spend some time on WoW was that I saw a news report on how great it was and thought Id give it a go.
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In terms of gametime, probably about 3 hours per week is spent on WoW and to be honest since Ive taken my character to lvl 45, Im a little bored.
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Quote "Because these platforms [Apple/Linux] don't have games."
Dont be silly, of course they do. I can list if you want.
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Why are you so fixated with games? theres nothing wrong with that but Im sure the majority of readers to MS watch dont particularly want to see posts about it and theres plenty of dedicated gaming forums you can go to.
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You havent answered any of my challenges, you simply made one general "fudged" answer. You didnt answer why PC gaming in local shops appears in the main to be less of a shelf filler, you did make a comment on the rise of consoles for the gamers out there, nor the sales of the systems and software. You didnt respond to my comment about piracy making PC development far less attractive to software houses than say PS3 and most importantly you didnt even challenge my figure claiming the percentage of PC games sales accounts for approximately 14% of the market.
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Ill leave it there since you wont answer and this will go around in circles. Im sure youre too busy with this Red Alert 3 of yours anyway. I am very pleased you champion it, but if you want to try and make users of Linux envious I think you will have to come up with a reason better than a game.
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In anycase, if the game is that good, users could dual boot Linux anyway and use their Windows partition for games. Just an idea. Maybe other gamers who want Linux but dont want to give up their gaming can consider that?
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Quote "Why you could play Wow of to the end of time. Looks like you`re gonna have to.
Ha ha ha"
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Clumps, how old are you?
This sounds more like playground banter than chat Id expect on MS watch. I wont play WoW until the end of time, infact I reckon by the end of April I wont be playing it anymore.

@Goblin

"I dont want to play Red Alert 3"

Obviously not. LOL. You want to play WoW. You've been playing it since it first came out for linux. It's the only thing you can play on linux.

ha ha ha

"In anycase, if the game is that good, users could dual boot Linux anyway and use their Windows partition for games."

Yes yes! Dualboot with Windows. That's how you have to run linux LOL ! And while you have Windows fired up get some real work done with real apps. This is hilarious.

Look, Goblin, you have this old 1995 view of Windows. Anyone with a modicum of sense can run it quite securely on the desktop. Linux is generally passed over [and passed by] by serious developers. Sure, you can toot the horn about a handful of apps - and one game .. which one .. oh yes, WoW - and it seems to do an 'ok' job of serving up web pages [although it is being eclipsed by Windows Server these days]. Wonderful. Now take off your rose glasses and green with envy disposition and let me get back to the real computing world: PCs running Windows.

Oh, and your point about patching? No need to check, it's automatic [your Windows 95 world view got you again]. Here's a list of security only patches for the kernel and main systems of just one linux distro, not that the patching system of RH linux doesn't screw up leaving you wondering if a patch even got applied:

https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/rh21as-errata-security.html

--

@Goblin

P.S.

Red Alert 2 was the #1 selling rts game of all time when it was at its height. No wondering why, it was *so* much fun. And the characters were wonderful - they made the game. Red Alert 3 is the long anticpated sequel. It's fun and the visual effects are quite stunning as it uses DirectX stuff. The Tanya character is played by a new girl though, and there's no Yuri (drats), but the campaigns are excellent and the new crew have brought their own brand of humour. The game also brings some 'first evers'.

@Goblin:
I bought the Command and conquer original game back a long time ago. While it was ok, I got bored with it fairly quick. Not that it wasn't a good game, it wasn't the type of game I wanted to play. Prefer strategy games here.
I not going let the Clumpster (Andre's sock puppet, you decide?) go on about that which he does not know anything.
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=167
Neither will I look up all his games he is going come up with.

But I will say this, Wine running in Linux, will most likely play more windows games than Vista will. Vista broke so many applications and games that most real "Gamers" either dual booted XP and Vista, or only ran XP. Now that was a year ago, but I doubt that Vista has gotten much better since. You only have to look at the gamer forums to see just how bad it is to be a real gamer running Vi$ta. Do not expect 7even to help either when it comes out.

@chips b malroy

LOL and LOL again, that's RA2 not RA3 on whine! Get with like within 5 years of the present would you? RA2 came out in 2000. This is 2009.

Bored with RA2, eh? Well, you might bore easily and no doubt everything is a bore around you, but a lot - a lot - of people found RA2 tremendous fun. And RA3 is lots of fun too. So were C&C Tiberium and C&C Generals.

Yes, on whine you can play nine and ten year old Windows games at emulation speeds. Great .. ha ha ha .. Nothing like living in the past! But hey, that's linux! Oh I can't stop laughing .. this is hilarious - almost as good as what the I'm A Mac guy is up to these days, oh mary.

@Gobin:
Like I said I am not going to look up every game that the Clumpster can come up with, but he did come up with RA2 in one of his previous posts.

Vista had major compatibility problems with both apps and "games." If you do not believe me, then just look at Joe Wilcox's graph above, the one titled "Enterprize concerns about Windows Seven."
At the top of the list is Software Compatibility, coming in at about 88%. They should be concerned, as 7even is just Vista revisited. 7even uses Vista drivers, so XP machines that did not have Vista drives will most likely not have 7even drives either. So both Software (apps and games) and hardware compatibility problems going from XP to Win 7even will be just as bad as going from XP to Vi$ta.

Joe Wilcox says: "Some other interesting data points from the Dimensional Research survey:
* Slightly more than half of organizations upgrading to Windows 7 "are doing so primarily to avoid Windows Vista."

LOL, what they are going get is a service pack with a few tweaks and Vi$ta. It the old M$ trick of renaming something and reselling it. How many times has MSN, Windows Live, Kumo been renamed now? Will IT, Businesses the Public fall for it once again???

Re: "If I were to annou[n]ce that Microsoft declare[d] bankrupt[cy] and all its products ceased, Will you (those [who] condemn Microsoft) sleep better tonight?"

If you were to announce that, I wouldn't believe you for even a fraction of a nanosecond. And it wouldn't change my sleep habits one little bit.

@chips b malroy

If it works on Vista, then it works on Windows 7. Yup. In the corporate world if it works on Windows XP, it will work on Windows 7 as well, yod-a-lay-hee-hoo:

http://www.winsupersite.com/vista/medv.asp

@chips b malroy and Goblin

Its not that I'm laughing at you personally, but it is fun to knock linux, it's *so* second rate (IMHO, of course). If you feel offended in any way, my apologies.

@ Clump :
"If it works on Vista, then it works on Windows 7"............

Where have you been Clump, have you read any of the Microsoft articles that have told people and businesses to update to Vista instead of Seven because Microsoft will not guarantee that all programs are going work in Seven that worked in Vista. And that was from Microsoft itself. Joe Wilcox has reported that as well. While Chips may tell you that Vista and Seven are the same thing, there are differences. The taskbar, the widgets (which will break things), the tweaks,and even the UAC which might. When Microsoft tells you that it might break program compatibility, that means that it will.

Clump, in some ways you remind me of Andrew De La La Coaster. You throw stuff against the wall, no matter how untrue, hoping it will stick, and nobody will notice to challenge it.

@Clump

MED-V is still a bit of vapor-ware for now. MED-V will be like the famed WinFS (that's Win File System for you Clump. But still MED-V is a great idea, so wasn't WinFS, and what has become of that. Word of Advice, don't hold your breath. More than likely, MED-V is being developed for a future OS to replace Windows based on a completely new kernel. But then, like so many things Microsoft does, it may never release a finished version that works.

Also, what kind of a name is clump?

Debbie Says :
"If I were to annouce that Microsoft declare bankrupt and all its products ceased

Will you( those condemn Microsoft)sleep better tonight ?"

@ Debbie :
Methinks everyone will sleep better if that botnet known as "Windows" is shutdown.

@God;
Nice link by the Clumpster. And if you bother to read the link, God, you will notice is already at 1.0 and released to:

"if you're already licensing MDOP or can do so, be sure to check out MED-V."

Which would mean, at least my take on it, is its not free. So M$ is most likely charging for a 1.0 product, which usually never works great (but Paul said it did) till the 3.0 release.

So Med-V is sort of a wine for Windows, is my take on it. After Clump has been so criticle on wine he nows endorses one for windows. LOL Businesses can already just run these apps in a Virtual machine in either Linux or XP without paying M$ more money. Money is king in a recession, not paying M$ more.

Quote Clump "Obviously not. LOL. You want to play WoW. You've been playing it since it first came out for linux. It's the only thing you can play on linux."
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It didnt come out for Linux ever. Wine simply provided compat through its replacement Windows API.
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Ive been playing it since Jan 09, Im not sure at what point it was playable on Linux.
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Clumps, is all you can talk about games. I dont think any of the posters here have more than a passing interest.
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Quote Clumps "Nothing like living in the past! But hey, that's linux! Oh I can't stop laughing "
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Clumps Ill ask again, how old are you, you seem only interested in playing games and trying to brag about things that people really are not interested in. When I ask you questions you avoid them with more bragging, and the sad thing is, ive certainly no overwhelming desire to play any games for long, let alone the ones you seem to be getting really excited about.
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Clumps, if it will stop you harping on about playing games, can we just all agree that Windows is the definetive platform for playing games.
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We are not disagreeing with you Clumps that the latest PC games play on Windows not Linux, its simply that I dont believe theres anyone into gaming like you here. (Except maybe the foul mouthed CC.Torment, and they've disappeared)
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Quote Clumps "The Tanya character is played by a new girl though, and there's no Yuri (drats)"
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Drats? Come on, we are adults here.
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But Ive saved the best for last...
Quote Clumps "the visual effects are quite stunning as it uses DirectX stuff"
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Yes Clumps all that "DirectX stuff" that comment has to have been the funniest thing Ive read all day, and once you finally understand what "directX stuff" actually is, it will dawn on you how immature your posts sound. If you are a child then I appologize, but I really think you need to take your gaming experiences elsewhere as it doesnt have much relevance to the question "Will enterprises rush to windows 7" and it certainly (IMO) doesnt hold much interest for the regulars here. Unless Im wrong and Joes favorite pastime is "directX stuff"

Clump, I do not understand you. You come here and its clear that you are a Linux-hater. Clearly you are doing everything you can to discredit Linux. Why? Why would you want to discredit an operating system that is given away for Free? The apps and games for it are free as well, although there are some you can buy. Its not like you had to pay $400 for this OS (Linux) and then found it wasn't what you wanted. Vista Ultimate did cost $400 when it came out, and lots of users were disappointed to say the least. But you seem to hate the hard work of volunteers who have given their free time to make the Linux OS a great one. Why the hatred? Nobody is forcing you to use Linux, or charging you for that matter for home use. There are some distros that do charge for home use, but few and fair between.

No, my only guess is you depend on a revenue stream somehow from Microsoft.

@The Far Left Hand of God

You can drop the equitable pretense you are a rabid linux fanboi and probably have your nose xxxxx.. well anyway.

Clump, I do not understand you."

No, you don't.

"You come here and its clear that you are a Linux-hater. Clearly you are doing everything you can to discredit Linux. Why?"

Because it is easy? I just don't like the FUD linux people spread, the misinformation on Windows, the false promises made for the linux platform.

"Why would you want to discredit an operating system that is given away for Free?"

Because it is only free if your time is worthless. And the linux security by obscurity model is a disaster waitng to happen, I don't want to see anyone get hurt by linux.

"Its not like you had to pay $400 for this OS (Linux) and then found it wasn't what you wanted"

RedHat charges for linux:

https://www.redhat.com/wapps/store/catalog.html

"But you seem to hate the hard work of volunteers who have given their free time to make the Linux OS a great one. Why the hatred?"

Please do not confuse hatred with contempt.

"Nobody is forcing you to use Linux, or charging you for that matter for home use."

Actually, linux users have attempted to influence law makers into forcing gov't departments into using linux, and by extension make the taxpayer pay for linux by footing the bill. Thank God in N. America most of these attempts have failed.

"There are some distros that do charge for home use, but few and fair between."

You probably meant few and far bewteen, lol, well no kidding, one has to seach high and low to find those few and far between linux desktops.

"No, my only guess is you depend on a revenue stream somehow from Microsoft. "

To date I have received no compensation from Microsoft. Not that I would mind - they have lots of coin ["coin" means money, something you can't get much of with linux].

@Far Left God,

From your dialogue with Clump:
""There are some distros that do charge for home use, but few and fair between."

You probably meant few and far between, lol, well no kidding, one has to search high and low to find those few and far between linux desktops."
----------------------------------------------------
Just to clear up a few points, about which are free to readers and which are not:

http://distrowatch.com/

On the right hand side of this page, under the "page hits rankings" column, is the Linux/BSD/Solarius lists, with links to get the software/forums/cost/etc. The first one on the list is Ubuntu, free for home use, in fact, they have a link and will mail you a disk at no cost, they even pay the mailing cost.

Now to find one that home users have to pay for. an here's one at #24 OpenSolaris. Whoops, it free too, but you do have to give them your mailing address maybe. So lets see, further down the list if we can find one that home users can pay for. Ah, I think we have a possibility, at #31 Red Hat and #44 Xandros, the one that signed the deal with MICRO$OFT. So folks, you can check those out, but again you going find out that Clumps either doesn't know, or has trouble with the truth.

Clump also says:
RedHat charges for linux:
www.redhat.com/wapps/store/catalog.html

Here Clumps is more truthful. #31. Actually Red Hat charges for support costs. If you want the Red Hat Server version, you can get CentOS which is the same, but without the paid support. But Red Hat does have a free home version of its software for home use. Its Fedora at #4 on the list.

#97 Turbolinux on the list also might cost, not sure.

So Clump, 3 on the list of 100, sounds like you wrong again.
--------------------------------------------------
Now lets talk about what Linux software IT and Businesses can get for free. Server software can be installed in most of these distros in the regular versions from the repo's. Its mostly Apache that has to be added and some tools. But if you need it, CentOS is Red Hat server, and you can check the site thru the distrowatch link, it might be free for business It use. Chips deals mostly with Home users, not businesses, so I will not swear to anything for business use, but are giving you the links to find out for yourselves.

Mepis at #10, free for home use, not for businesses I think. But I believe that the developer for that distro only charges something like $25 per license for business use. You have to ask to find out. So very much cheaper for businesses than Windows.

Ubuntu also has a server version for businesses, but I do not know what the support costs are. For your businesses all the information is available thru the distrowatch link. Enjoy and save yourself a bundle from the MS bloat.

@The Far Left Hand of God
I think hes been rumbled. I cant fathom what he's trying to achieve with his latest post, since he seems to quote the charging for Redhat like it was a template for Linux.
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To be honest I cant really tell what he's quoting what hes saying or indeed the point he's trying to make, but I found the following interesting:
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Quote Clumps "And the linux security by obscurity model is a disaster waitng to happen, I don't want to see anyone get hurt by linux."
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Since we had a similar comment by Andre Da Costa who stated he didnt want us throwing away our lives on Linux.

@Goblin:
Quoting Clumps:
"And the linux security by obscurity model is a disaster waitng to happen, I don't want to see anyone get hurt by linux."
----------------------------------------------------
Another mistake by Clumps. Linux uses among other things running as a limited user. But as an "obscurity model," if that was the only reason, and its not, that Linux or Mac is secure, as opposed to windows the malware typhoid mary of operating systems, why wouldn't one want the "SECURE" system?
Why its secure is not as important as the fact that it is SECURE, and can be used today and for many years without problems. And Free too.
--------------------------------------------------
Goblin:
Clumps did jog my mind on one thing that I need to research and learn more about. Which distros are free for businesses and It to use. While I think its most of them, I don't want to say without knowing, unlike Clumps. He was way wrong on home use. Since maybe there are businesses and organizations out there struggling with Vista, maybe we can help them out by posting more about he cost and the free ones for them to switch over as well.

@chips b malroy

Is this an article and replies page or your personal advertizing department for linux distros? We don't need to hear about the silly list of linux distros.

Some distros are charged for so it is not all free as some lusers seem to imply.

But yes, many linux distros can be downloaded for no charge or be had on CD-ROM for nominal charge and/or shipping. But no surprise, it's unlikely anyone would actually want to pay for them.

But let's make it clear, LINUX IS FREE ONLY IF YOUR TIME IS WORTHLESS. Because installing it yourself takes time. Because configuring it is a quagmire of config file goop. Because it bellies up. Because the patching systems are varied, unreliable, spotty, and sometimes even require kernel recompiles. Because it lacks support by most hardware vendors. Because it has few games and the ones that can run on it are long past their prime. Because distros often contain gigbytes of alpha quality apps from God-knows-where with no one providing patches for them, or if they do, who are they and what exactly will they do on your computer? Because linux has so many kernels and distros on the go and no one managing them and a whole slew of angry commie types writing the code with no one to account to. Because, because, because. I wouldn't even let a knoppix CD run for concern it will do something to my computer and it's a well known distro. Please, out with your delusions!

Goblin:
I noticed that even after we disprove the dubious claims about Linux that Clumper is making, he just moves on to another ridiculous claim, and then later goes back to the other claims like there are true after being proved false. Just like Andre he keeps trying to "just rub it in," even though proven false. He thinks that if he repeats his lies often enough someone will believe him. Since Clumpster is Andre this is not surprising, is it?

Lets clear up some of his FUD and lies:
"LINUX IS FREE ONLY IF YOUR TIME IS WORTHLESS. Because installing it yourself takes time."
A download of linux and then burn by right clicking on the iso file select open with K3B and then burn, simple. Whoops, you using Vista, guess you need to run out and buy some software to burn an iso first. Or you could google (never use msn) for free software for windows, but it could contain viruses, or be incompatible with Vista.
After buring the CD reboot, and select boot from CD, sometimes you have to set the bios to do this for any operating system. Now, on an install with example Mepis Linux, on a hard drive where Mepis is going to be the only OS, it took 7 minutes to install from the live cd. Their was no editing of config files as Clumper claimed, only you needed to supply and remember two passwords.

I suggest 7 minutes of users time is well worth it for a stable system that installs with little to no malware problems, complete with openoffice, firefox, k3b (burning software) and many many other excellent programs. Plus the ability to install many other apps and games from the Debian repos by using synaptic package manager. A very easy to use program.

Goblin, I will not waste time on Clumps other lies, as he is clearly an agent of Andre, who lies at every turn in support of his free computers from M$.

I think if this was a forum where there were many impressionable users Id continue to challenge Clumps, as it is I agree with you chips, and I think we are wasting our time challenging that which I dont think anyone reading this believe anyway.
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Clumps the gamer - the floor is yours. Why not bring Andre too?
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Theres really no point in challenging you two anymore. Ill just highlight you over on the numerous sites I usually do.

@chips b malroy

Oh wow, there's a distro for everything. But Hello, but most people want just one operating system installed, with some exceptions of course.

Each new linux task seems to require yet another distro to download. Need a distro in 7 mintues, great, need one with 4GB of apps yup .. they're all there, but it's of no use to someone who wants a real operating system installed and not run off a CD-ROM drive [or quick to download but so lacking in apps they have spend hours downloading command-line style from FTP sites).

Most linux distros do not download, install and run in 7 minutes. This is one of the fantastic mix'n match promises linux users make for their platform. Sure it is possible, but it is not a practical solution, and like linux itself, most people don't want it. There are special purpose distros for everything from the likes of God-knows-hacker-who and by mixing and matching these dubious distros linux users can make fantastic claims. Fantastic, but useless. Typical fare, of course.

Besides, gentlemen, most DVD-RW drives come with the ISO burning software already, software that runs on Windows, thank you very much. Moreover, many computers come with it all pre-installed and in that case time cost to the Windows user is 0 seconds.

Well said, Goblin.

Still, there's one thing that stood out for me in Clump's posting. I'll try to make this quick since I don't want to beat a dead horse too much:

Quote Clump:
"Because it is easy? I just don't like the FUD linux people spread, the misinformation on Windows, the false promises made for the linux platform."

Yet in the same post, he spreads a bunch of his own FUD and misinformation about Linux. Red Hat charges for support (which is exactly what the link he pointed to shows). The code itself is free, and CentOS is proof of that. Also, the taxpayers part was just nonsensical. If you look into it, there have been several cases of governments, police departments, etc. switching wholesale to Linux, but it was after evaluating their options and determining that Linux provided better value, more stability, more security, lower cost (i.e. more efficient use of taxpayer money),etc. In general, Linux was better suited for their needs, or they wouldn't have switched. And even if they pay for Linux support, they would still be paying more of the taxpayer's money to Microsoft if they hadn't switched. Now, I won't go the opposite scenario (Microsoft lobbying hard for governments to use only their stuff, by hook or by crook), but there is plenty of well documented dirt out there if anyone wants to look.

So, yeah, I've already wasted more digital ink than I should have on this, but posting like this is what is driving the signal-to-noise ratio on this site to close to zero. I don't even know who they are trying to convince, but if their attitudes don't weaken their arguments, their blatant disregard for facts and logic will.

Come to think of it, since some of the posters around here appear to be seriously confused about how users install software on Linux (judging by all the erroneous statements about command lines, etc.), here's a short tutorial I found on Youtube to help them out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgUhYWV9w34

There's more in that series, but that's enough to get started.

The teeny tiny download and install in 7 minutes distros of linux have no such thing. Mix 'n match, mix 'n match.

Wrong again, Chumps. There's Puppy Linux, for one example. The largest initial install of it comes in at around 100 MB, and it too has a package manager.

http://www.puppylinux.com/development/package-management.htm

There are some Linux distros out there that probably don't have a package management system, but those wouldn't be the ones that a home user or business would be looking at, anyway.

And for the record, Ubuntu only took about 15 minutes to install on a roughly 3 year old laptop that I use.

My apologies, Clump. I didn't mean to call you Chumps. That was a typo on my part (not helped by the fact that there was a "Chumps" poster on here a while ago--and no, I'm not calling you the same person.)

An honest mistake.

Will, very valid points although im sure clump and the readers here know that too.
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Welldone for the 15 minutes ubuntu install. My quickest has been around 25 and then another 10 or so to get all my favorite bits and pieces on.
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BTW are you going with 9.04 on release day? ive got mixed feelings and I dont think Ill bother unless it offers something major over any other distro. The fast boot time is not a selling point to me, and Im very happy with what I consider an amazing boot speed with the distro I use.
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Ive got alot of love for Ubuntu, but I spent most of my time with Gentoo.

@Goblin:

When speaking about the install, I only meant the initial install. As for post install, it doesn't matter what OS I use, there will always be extras and customizations over the base install that I like to do. Ubuntu tends to take take less time to set up for me than Windows did, if for no other reason than the fact that I can install multiple applications at once and I don't have to reboot many times during the process.

But as for 9.04, I'm still running 8.04 LTS on my production laptop. I've got it set up very comfortably with everything I need for my work. There are a couple of things I like that have been added since 8.04, like the tabbed Nautilus file browser in 8.10, that I'd like, but I'll wait until I catch a little downtime at work before upgrading. Since I have my /home and / folders on separate partitions, it shouldn't be too hard or take much time to throw 9.04 on as a drop-in upgrade/replacement, but right now I'm too busy with work to worry about it.

Truth be told, I'm toying with the idea of putting on the equivalent version of Linux Mint when it comes out. I haven't yet used Mint personally, but since it's an even more user friendly version of Ubuntu, I think it might be the best recommendation for people who have never heard of Linux before. The next time someone comes up to me and asks me how I got OSX to run on a PC after I've been absent-mindedly playing with Compiz (it's already happened about 4 times), I'd like to have personally used the Linux distro that I tell them about.

@Goblin and Will:
I agree that there are files to post install after the initial install. But for most people, Mint will have enough already installed. For more power users, theres a few things to add. But when you compared to Windows, there are so many just basic things that need to be added, and the time to install those from various sources, comes after you spend a lot of time hardening Windows for security so you can do that.

Goblin, I have not tried Puppy Linux in a long time, but would think its a fast install. My 7 minutes file install of Mepis 64bit 8 beta, was on a friends computer, who had a nice new HP 64 bit desktop computer with the fastest sidebus available. It came with 4gb of ram which the friend added another 4 to make it 8gb. It had, of course the fastest sata drives. The hard drive was already partitioned correctly, as the friend had tried some other Linux's on it, so that step could be bypassed. It was an 100gb ext3 partition, without an swap partition, as the friend insisted on no swap. The home, no root, no anything but one linux partition ext3. And no checking for bad blocks during formatting, as this was almost brand new (about a week old at the time), and had been checked with previous installs on other systems. Neither do I count the time to boot up and log in to the live cd, as that is a testing phase, which users will do to see if all their hardware works and to see if they like the distro enough to install it to the hard drive.

Install times will vary on distro. size of distro, hardware, speed of hardware, etc. Desktops tend to have faster sidebus than most laptops, this is a major advantage in speed of file transferring. Goblin, on my laptop, the install takes long than the ubuntu install you quoted, I think about 22 to 36 complete. But its an old P4.

A few comments for the Windows fanboys/shills

Since when does a Windows Install take less than an hour or two and that is with no apps. I can install Linux and a wide variety of Apps in less time than I can install Windows alone. Try adding the time it takes to install absolutely required Security software, MS Office, Adobe Creative Suite and one or two of clumps favorite games and we're talking an afternoon or two, not an hour or two.

Has any Windows Update or New Release ever increased the actual performance (ie speed) of Windows - I'll answer for you - No each update, each security patch, each new release gets slower and slower. This is great for people who manufacture chips and computers as it constantly requires you to upgrade your PC to just maintain the same performance you once had. What a joke.

Every other OS I can think of actually improves with each patch and runs faster and better. Guess what, I don't mind patches and updates that improve things. I hate patches and updates I have to apply because of malware or Microsoft's obsessive punishment of legal users with ever more awful copy protection (excuse me "Windows Genuine Advantage") that is totally ineffective in preventing piracy but makes paying users lives a living hell.

Linux or Mac release a patch or a new OS Version and the performance increases on the same hardware. MS releases a patch or a new OS version and I have to buy new hardware to maintain the same crappy performance I had before. What a great OS Microsoft makes.

@Andre DeCosta:

Andre:

I am a small business owner. Out out of necessity, I have been my own self-taught (Windows NT4-Server and 2000-Server) network administrator for ten years. That does not make me a geek, but I am long way from a novice.

When my last server died, I had to "upgrade" to Windows 2003-Server, because of hardware compatibility problems with 2000-Server. That's life. I had been reading about the various Linux distributions, but had been hesitating to take the plunge. All the FUD made me believe that learning Linux and making the transition would be a full-time job for several months.

However, despite my 10 years of experience with two essentially similar MicroSoft server products, I have been plagued by crippled functioning and unsatisfactory performance from 2003-Server. To be sure, 2003-Server offers some minor improvements over 2000 Server. Those have hardly mattered, however, because, in the 8 months that I have had it, 2003-Server has twice become corrupted and lost basic function. No virus. The hardware has been thoroughly checked and seems ok. Maybe I have just been unlucky, but getting struck by lightening on a clear day twice does make one reconsider his need to go outside, doesn't it?

Both times, I have had to perform a repair installation of 2003-Server. Both times, MicroSoft has immediately locked me out of my equipment and the license that I paid for, because it would not accept my valid key. Before you ask, the answer to ALL of your questions is "No." The first time this happened, I could not access my server for a month. After numerous calls, being repeatedly transferred to nonworking numbers, closed offices, and OBVIOUSLY unsuitable departments, I finally persuaded MicroSoft BOTH to regenerate the key AND give it to me over the phone (instead of continuing to insist on emailing it, even though MicroSoft was locking me out of my email!). The second episode has now extended for two months. MicroSoft keeps verifying my license and my key. I already know that they are valid, so that is no help to me. This time, to the credit of one technician, he spent hours with me, following we me as he transferred my call to others who were supposed to be able to offer me more advanced support. That support proved to be of the yes-you-have-valid-license-and-a-valid-key-but-you-will-have-to-buy-another-copy-with-another-license-and-a-new-key variety. Since, then, I have made multiple appointments for technical support, setting aside a half-day at a time, only to receive the calls exactly when I specified that it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to be available. To be sure, each of these missed appointments costs me more than a new license, but it is hard to see how paying MicroSoft for more of the same would spare me these costs!

Instead, I have obtained copies of Ubuntu Server and Desktop. Guess what, Andre? They are a lot easier to use than "Gatesware"! Oh, and that superior documentation that MicroSoft offers--it is nothing but sales puffery, and all of the the books that I have read to "really" explain it have been largely uninterpretable until I had figured out what I needed by trial and (mostly) error (Of course, then they were just as useless to me--just for a different reason.). In contrast, anything that I need for Linux and the software that runs on it has been a cinch to find, usually with "cookbook" (i.e., "cut-and-paste") instructions. What is more, in keeping with the "free(dom) and open source" philosophy, everything is well-documented and explained. This may come as a shock to you, Andre, but paid support is a crutch for those who have been so brainwashed of their inadequacy to comprehend the arcane and occult knowledge enjoyed by the "illuminati" of the Redmondite "secret society" that they would fear to learn for themselves. Frankly, in the last two months, working a few hours a week, I already have almost as much understanding of--and a lot more flexibility with and control over--this supposedly confusing and poorly documented woefully inferior OS that (are you ready for this, Andre?) just works.

I am not sure what functions that you need that you think you cannot find in free(dom) and open software, Andre, but I'll bet that few people have such needs. For those few, there is a very good chance that you can run them in Linux (Just in case you can't, most Linux distributions come with choices of virtualization software that you can click and install.). Your comments about the difficulty downloading and installing software are so ludicrous as to make it plain that you have never tried to do so with any of the modern distributions. If even checkboxes in an extensive menu is too complicated for you, then I guess the liberating power of learning to type or paste a few simple commands in a (GASP!) terminal emulator is either beyond your intellectual firepower (very hard to believe!) or too frightening for you to even contemplate (Yes, Andre, you're almost a big boy, now. It really is o.k. for you to let go of Mommy's hand and cross the street all by yourself, if you look both ways, first!).

Forget what I posted about the ONE time that I thought you had a thoughtful and reasoned contribution. Obviously, I misunderstood you and read too much into your comments.

Windows 2003-Server: Locked out, three out of eight months, and counting, poor functioning for the remaining five months, almost no usable help information, and the solution is to buy it again! I only LOOK that stupid.

Andre, try setting up a business network sometime, like REAL computer adults do. You might want to consider the Linux distributions that you so deride (Your ridiculous lack of knowledge is glaring even to a Linux newbie like me, but don't worry, because most of your readers know even less than you do.).

As for me, I have already begun removing Windows from my desktops. I am just about ready to graduate from a Linux test server to a working Linux server. That gives me an idea--maybe I could interest you in a very slightly used (cheap!) copy of Windows 2003 Server with valid (but utterly useless) license and key. This could come in handy for your network education (I read that later Windows Server editions are not for the faint of heart--and you KNOW how much you HATE actually having to make informed choices!). Learning a network should keep you busy for a while--unless, of course, you try a modern Linux distribution, instead.

MicroSoft--NEVER AGAIN!!