The ad is like nuclear weapon for microsoft, highly effective, but with potentially lots of collateral damage.

Firstly, they fully acknowledge much much smaller competitor.

Second, they confine themselves to mass market with this kind of message, leaving premium market to Apple.

They present Apple as a first choice provider of coolest products, then they conclude they are expensive. Because you wouldn't expect premium products to be expensive, right?

Apple doesn't care about mass market, which cannot afford its stuff anyway.

Lauren knew what was premium and that was her first stop. She couldn't afford it, so she had to move on. The message for people who _can_ afford it is clear.

Was there ever some kind of dispute about whether Macs cost more than Windows PCs?

The question isn't whether Macs cost more, it's whether that extra cost is worth it. For someone like me who uses a computer 12+ hours a day - hell yes. (hence i have a mac)

I don't understand how two MAC users end up posting on a Windows site, but anyway. One thing to remember and aside from PPC MAC's, comparable hardware between the newer Intel base MAC's and their PC counterparts are worlds apart in price.

Leave the OS out of the equation for a second and do the math. The same hardware for a MAC and PC/Laptop components will be almost double for the MAC product when put on the shelf for sale. If you like the MAC OS, then by all means, use their product. i have nothing against it really, I just prefer Windows and Linux over Apple. If I want old school UNIX (which a MAC is now) I'll get a BSD based system or Free/Open BSD.

Dollar for Dollar, the Apple products cost more, when the PC using the same hardware costs half that price. You would be better off buying a hardware compatible gaming rig, then putting OSX on it for less the cost off a MAC Pro Workstation or server.

I wonder, what kind of performance would MAC's get on an i7 PC Platform? Yeah, go pc!

Macs are more expensive FOR SURE. Microsoft was clever citing a 17' model, in mac case, a very expensive laptop (2.800u$$).

Now I am going to do the analogy some hate; CARS; It's like comparing a luxury with a normal brand. Both can have a "similar" engine (200hp), leather seats, 5 passengers, same tire sizes,ABS, etc, but they are not the same!

The 17 inch mac has:
- A unibody aluminum enclosure. I hate laptops full of holes, pins, stickers everywhere, flashing lights... DESIGN MATTERS!
- It's the thinest and lightest 17 inch laptop.
- Has a much better processor.
- A better resolution
- 8-hours battery time (non-mac laptops usually last 2h30min). And a nice button to see hows battery life.
- Lit-keyboard. The keyboard design is great (in every mac). You have good space between keys, and the F1-F12 are useful keys (without having to press fn). Incredibly, the keyboard are one of my favorites features.
- Again the design. Have you seen the new huge multi-touch trackpad?
- A much better graphics (Nvidia 9600GT)
- Wireless N, much faster than b/g.
- Magnetic AC plug. Safer and It's a small. And you have an adapter (cable) if It's not long enough.

And of course, the operational system. Using a mac is more pleasant than windows. I could write a page about it. This is some features I can remember, probably there are a few more.

A few month ago I bought a Asus G51V (1600u$$), a 17inch laptop with the best configuration at that time. Best mobile processor (intel 2.66 6mb L2) with the best mobile graphics (geforce 9700 512MB), 4GB RAM, 2x250GB HD etc. For gaming was awesome, but for non-gaming, I couldn't quit using my macbook (13.3inch). And for intensive-processor applications (like photoshop), my intel macbook 2.4ghz handled at no noticeable difference speed.

I bought my macbook 2 years ago, and I don't think about buying a new laptop so soon. Maybe this is a mac-only thing???

Macs are better than PCs? YES, no doubt.
Worth the price difference? Depends. It's like the cars analogy. If you can afford... I wish I could afford a 15' macbook pro, but I am only "cool-enough" to have a 13' one. With the bad economy this days, apple could decrease the price (Apple charges the biggest margins in computer market).

I know this post is very fan-boy alike, but I'm using reasons for my opinion. If you REALLY used a mac before, please post WHY you disagree. Don't say things like "why pay 6x price for a ferrari if my mitsubishi is faster?". What I am trying to prove is : MACS ARE NOT THE SAME AS PCs. EVEN WITH A SIMILAR CONFIGURATION.
------- Now the bad part:
Macs are not perfect. When you buy a just-arrived model, the "apple-tax" is not that hefty, but It's funny when you see a 1 year old model maintaining the same price! [Congrats for apple marketing.]
And like this article says, there is some models that sucks. The mac-mini for example. Expensive for that configuration and no keyboard and display? The entry-level macbook. They headed back in processor! WTH? And for the Mac Pro... Just buy a similar and compatible configuration for that less price and install OS X. If you use a desktop, you won't mind having a different case. You'll have a bunch of cables anyway.

The numbers look pointless and meaningless to me.

1. Please compare equivalent hardware specs or very near equivalent.

2. I still expect the Mac to cost more, but I'd really like a good idea how much more.

3. I might go for a Mac despite that price difference.

I am glad MS came up with that ad though - I certainly wouldn't mind Apple whacking a few bucks off the price of their machines. :)

Dear oh deary me, do we have to spell it out ALL the time?

The ad HAD to show the apple store first because it wouldn't make sense if Lauren went into Best Buy first and found her "perfect" laptop, and THEN went into an Apple store. It makes most sense to run the ad logically. The "Happy Ending", presumably, has to be at the End.

Dear oh deary me, do we have to spell it out ALL the time?

The ad HAD to show the apple store first because it wouldn't make sense if Lauren went into Best Buy first and found her "perfect" laptop, and THEN went into an Apple store. It makes most sense to run the ad logically. The "Happy Ending", presumably, has to be at the End.

Hey Jason V.W.-

Like most Mac users you are telling lies. Here are the facts and if you are going to make claims you need to substantiate them. I included refrences which you did not.

-geforce 9700 512MB

*is not the best graphics card for laptops, sorry bud you are not even close here.

-The 9600 GT (the one you say is in the macs)

*is not the latest and greatest graphics card for a laptop. As a matter of fact it's a whole generation behind and the 9xxx series from nvidia just recently became available for any Mac period and its already a generation out of date. Not to mention the other graphics card competitor out there that goes by the name of ATI.

-you said "a 17inch laptop with the best configuration at that time"

*are you some kind of idiot savant?, wrong again.

-"8-hours battery time"

*STFU, some of the mac's have 8 hour battery times and some of the PC's do also, but the mac pro power systems sure as hell don't.

- "Has a much better processor."

*Once again STFU and learn something about what you are talking about, Mac's use intel CPU's just like other laptops, the only difference is the Mac's are about 6-8 months behind most laptop manufacturers with the latest CPU's.

-"And for intensive-processor applications (like photoshop), my intel macbook 2.4ghz handled at no noticeable difference speed."

*If you spent the same amount of money for a PC laptop as you did the mac you run priemere and what have yah, then the PC would publish the files much faster, I know because I work with Flash, Premiere, Photoshop and after effectsm, and I have to buy my own equipment and I would never pay for a mac to do any of those jobs because my PC runs it all faster for the price I paid.

-"It's like the cars analogy. If you can afford... I wish I could afford a 15' macbook pro, but I am only "cool-enough" to have a 13' one."

*once again, poor choice of an analogy. If I bought a Ferrari and it was slower then a ford mustang I would be pretty pissed, because a top end PC is much faster then the top end mac's.

-"Just buy a similar and compatible configuration for that less price and install OS X."

*If you are going to put an OS on a custom laptop build why buy the over priced OS X? Hell, if you can handle an OS installation just go ahead and install any flavor of linux, it's free and built around the same software that the Mac's OS came from.

-"A better resolution"

*Seriously? A better resolution? explain, what resolution do you speak of? lol! Come on spit out some numbers and a link to the system on the Mac site and i'll show you a cheaper laptop with the same WUXGA 1920 x blah blah blah resolution.

-"Lit-keyboard. The keyboard design is great (in every mac). You have good space between keys, and the F1-F12 are useful keys (without having to press fn). Incredibly, the keyboard are one of my favorites features."

*Are you trying to say that you can't buy a PC laptop with seperate function keys? Come on now, you're just reaching with this one. You actuqally have more options out there with keyboard designes with PC laptops, hell, I've even seen some that have seperate number pads, but anyways, who really gives a crap and if yah did give a crap about this then the Mac is far inferior in this department.

Seriously you need to learn WTF you are talking about because you are wrong on almost every point you tried to make.

here are some reverences for yah which you failed to provide.

-http://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20090304/tc_pcworld/nvidialaunchesitsfastestlaptopgpu

-http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/features-17inch.html (states up to 7 hrs run time but that's under optimal conditions, not while playing games, hell even the pc laptop vendors advertise the same thing in the same way)

-http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dycwm53&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=productdetails~xpsnb_m1730 (wow Wuxga and a extreme CPu you can add to it that's better then that 2.6, some vendors actually sell pc laptops with desktop CPU's also.)

And I would still go for the Mac.
The feeling I get when I work is just better than a PC (Windows...And I have used that OS for the past 15 years)...And that makes me more efficient and productive.....Not bundling and fancy GUI stuff.
So....An interesting experiment would be if Apple ported OS X to plain PC's.....Then it would be comparable the way the ad tries to do.
But that might not be so funny for the company who paid for the ad :-)

An alternative headline for this article might have been:
"Lauren is right: Cheap Macs Cost More Than Cheap PCs"

Apple has publicly acknowledged that they have no interest in the lower-end market and doesn't play there. Also, Apple doesn't need to increase its market share anymore, since they have a nicely diverse portfolio of computers, iPods and iPhones.

For analysts to suggest that Apple is missing an opportunity here or that this will somehow compel those who are considering and can afford a Mac, to save money with a PC, just doesn't seem very thorough.

Macs aren't worth the cost unless you base your work on its specialisation. For most younger ppl, a netbook is optimal.

Macs aren't worth the cost unless you base your work on its specialisation. For most younger ppl, a netbook is optimal.

Of course they cost more, they are much higher quality. Some people buy Nescafe coffee because it is cheapest, some people buy their own beans because they appreciate quality.

Look at the Lauren video again, at about 13 seconds in she walks into the 'Mac' store. There is a guy with a stripy top walking past, when she comes out he is still walking past, he either went in and spent exactly the same amount of time there as her, or she never looked at anything. You have to actually look at products to see their quality.

Apple should get the CCTV from that store, use their facial recognition technology and find the video of her walking in, turning around and walking out.

What ever happened to total cost of ownership? Microsoft always used that to compete against the cheaper Linux. The entire system cost almost $1000 so for her $1000 she got around $800 worth of hardware and $200 worth of licenses for anti-virus etc wich will timeout in 1 year. They do not make it clear all the extra software you have to buy and all the time taken to keep the thing running properly and free of viruses.

It's amazing how quick people will defend a mac.. The extra cost must be for brain washing..

PC's are just better (I didnt say windows - I said PC's)

If mac would just concentrate on making the MAC OS and selling it on ANY PC configuration - they would probably gain ground on windows.. Imagine buying that 700.00 laptop with a version of OS X - but no - apple has to punish its consumers..

Untill then - they will continue to make over priced computers for the tree huggers who want a "pretty" computer - not a useful one...

What can you do with a Mac?

Well you can go to a wireless coffee place and look cool with the glowing apple on the lid. You can't do much else because the software is pretty lame. (I know, because I had a top of the line MacBook Pro for a short time)

You cannot scale the fonts on a Mac, so the hi-res screen only allows teeny tiny text.

I ran Vista on my Mac using Boot Camp. Vista runs great on a mac, and I could size everything on the screen. (unlike OS-X there was no squinting)

But why spend an extra grand just to have Vista, eh?

Here's a real-world experience. A friend of mine just asked for advice on buying a laptop. He doesn't want a Mac, so I was describing the differences between a Dell consumer (Inspiron) and business (Latitude) notebook.

I like the Latitude because (1) it's more durable, (2) there's less (no?) crapware/trial versions, and (3) it has a 3-year warranty standard.

My friend's reaction? "That Latitude is way too expensive."

Imagine if he looked at a Mac.

Most people just want to surf the web, correspond by e-mail, watch a DVD, and load their iPod. Virtually any laptop can do that without the expense of a Mac. All other arguments in favor of the Mac are a moot point if you're focused on price only.

Joe,

I'm not posting to dispute your thesis or your basic argument but your use of "average selling price" is so misleading that you should be ashamed. The ASP tells you how much the average customer is spending but it tells you absolutely nothing about an apples-to-apples comparison of which kind of computer costs more or is a better value.

Even if Apple had a compelling, super cheap mini priced at $399, the ASP for Macs would still be much higher on an absolute basis than for Windows because of sales of more expensive models. But the existence of such a super-mini would completely undercut your thesis. On the other hand, even if Apple raised prices or eliminated the mini, the ASP would probably still trend down in this economy as customers decide to buy more lower-end models or skip a memory upgrade. So the "tax" would be increasing but your analysis would say the gap had shrunk. Ugh, this is such bad math.

oh it is clear how much of a sucker so many people are. i'm not sure if its a lack of understanding or just plain denial: guys buying a mac is paying more for a computer than buying a windows pc. i see so many people trying to justify the way over priced item.

i see a guy comparing the mac to a lexus and windows to a normal brand car: i think this guy lives in a bubble somewhere because i dont think he knows that therw are many windows brand pc and my friend the are notall normal brand. Even when money low everywhere your're still trying to justify the cost? Its people like you I laugh at every day and its people like you who should be lft to your own vices. Go ahead oay foe your mac lexus, I can configure a benz or a bmw of a windows pc anyday and pay out way less than you pay for your mac luxus.

Why don't you just stop the dmn denial and admit that yes buying a mac is actually paying more for the brand name and logo and "cool" factor?

"I get a way better experience when using my mac", stop that lying right now, because i've used macs and theres a certain relief that comes over me when I sit back down around my windows pc, i'll never buy a mac again. That better experience you talk about I never got it, maybe that mac gives you orgasms or something close to it. Maybe if you stick your dick up the superdrive you'll get one, or better yet: stick it up the reset whole you'll definitely get one there.

oh it is clear how much of a sucker so many people are. i'm not sure if its a lack of understanding or just plain denial: guys buying a mac is paying more for a computer than buying a windows pc. i see so many people trying to justify the way over priced item.

i see a guy comparing the mac to a lexus and windows to a normal brand car: i think this guy lives in a bubble somewhere because i dont think he knows that therw are many windows brand pc and my friend the are notall normal brand. Even when money low everywhere your're still trying to justify the cost? Its people like you I laugh at every day and its people like you who should be lft to your own vices. Go ahead oay foe your mac lexus, I can configure a benz or a bmw of a windows pc anyday and pay out way less than you pay for your mac luxus.

Why don't you just stop the dmn denial and admit that yes buying a mac is actually paying more for the brand name and logo and "cool" factor?

"I get a way better experience when using my mac", stop that lying right now, because i've used macs and theres a certain relief that comes over me when I sit back down around my windows pc, i'll never buy a mac again. That better experience you talk about I never got it, maybe that mac gives you orgasms or something close to it. Maybe if you stick your dick up the superdrive you'll get one, or better yet: stick it up the reset whole you'll definitely get one there.

Why do these articles fail to mention software? All they compare are hardware and price. I feel OS X does not get in my face like Windows does. Also, when web coding I use Panic's Coda and that is a big reason to use a Mac over a PC. These articles are a just beating the same drum everyone has already heard before. Apple is still in business because people like their products enough to buy them. Also, does anyone think about the Sony tax? Sony makes low end products but what about their high-end notebooks? Maybe Sony is let off the hook because they also make low-end computers too?

If people were only concerned with price then everyone would buy netbooks with Linux installed, you can save around $50 that way. All arguments in favour of Windows are moot if you are only concerned about price.

Apple sell computers, not OSX. They have no interest in making an OS to be sold on <$700 laptops. They do not care about gaining ground on Windows, they are in the business to make money and as far as I can see they are the only ones who are really making money in hardware.

All the other manufacturers have been reduced to a commodity where they are compared by price and screen size rather than software features. It has driven most of them into the ground, they are forced to reduce quality to keep up with the cheap manufacturers whilst still trying to appear to be high quality.

"They do not care about gaining ground on Windows"

Yeah - I can tell by all those "I'm a mac - and I'm a PC" - commercials.. Of course they care about gaining ground on windows - they want a bigger share of the computer market - otherwise they wouldn't be in business..

@Frank

ok frank, please explain to us how windows get invyour face. you cant just throow something out there like that. you need to give some examples pease.

Hello Mr. Wilcocks,
Thanks for the useless charts. You should be an accountant. Comparing the average selling price is silly. Perhaps after you reboot your Windows box you can make some real helpful charts that compare computer model specifications and also the user experience of using the computer. I am also curious how Lauren will do with her new purchase if she should ever need warranty service. But I guess that stuff does not matter to you.

Citing ASPs misses the point. That's like citing the relative ASPs of Porsche vs. Chevy. Apple really doesn't sell products in the low-end notebook computer market, regardless of whether it's a 8", 10", 13", 15", or 17" display.

@krenshaw
I'll explain that as soon as you explain "suckers" and "way over priced". Also, why are you posting the same message twice? Must be a problem with your PC. You may want to spend less time "configuring" your PC and more time checking your posts for spelling and grammar errors.

If you compare hardware to hardware - the PC's come out cheaper for higher performance - and I think that should be the point..

The OS you use comes down to preference. My real problem is apples proprietary software.

I use a custom built PC and dual boot Fedora Linux and Vista.. I like that choice, - and not being forced to buy a piece of art. For the money it takes to design a MAC with the specs I want - I could build 2 PC's that will stomp on the MACs performance.. I would actually run the MAC OS on a partition if they expanded their OS to run on ANY PC..

OK. All an interesting debate, but I think I have the proper breakdown. Macs do cost more, and you can debate software, longevity, warranty, quality, absence of crap/malware and whether it makes it attractive to some to spend the money. As noted, the key is that the two computers appeal to different audiences, however, no one has quite nailed what those two demographics are. Simply this - Macs appeal to people who CREATE content and PCs appeal to those who CONSUME content. Now that's not to say there isn't some crossover, but it is an important dividing line. Also many switchers who do email and a little browsing, who then buy a Mac, at some point a light switch comes on and they realize that a computer is an empowering device and not just passive viewing screen. If I had to describe in words the difference in experience of using Windows versus a Mac, Windows feels to me like trying to view a vista (pun?) through a tiny porthole, but using a Mac feels like viewing the universe through a 180 degree transparent walk in bay on the side of a spaceship.

OK. All an interesting debate, but I think I have the proper breakdown. Macs do cost more, and you can debate software, longevity, warranty, quality, absence of crap/malware and whether it makes it attractive to some to spend the money. As noted, the key is that the two computers appeal to different audiences, however, no one has quite nailed what those two demographics are. Simply this - Macs appeal to people who CREATE content and PCs appeal to those who CONSUME content. Now that's not to say there isn't some crossover, but it is an important dividing line. Also many switchers who do email and a little browsing, who then buy a Mac, at some point a light switch comes on and they realize that a computer is an empowering device and not just passive viewing screen. If I had to describe in words the difference in experience of using Windows versus a Mac, Windows feels to me like trying to view a vista (pun?) through a tiny porthole, but using a Mac feels like viewing the universe through a 180 degree transparent walk in bay on the side of a spaceship.

OK. All an interesting debate, but I think I have the proper breakdown. Macs do cost more, and you can debate software, longevity, warranty, quality, absence of crap/malware and whether it makes it attractive to some to spend the money. As noted, the key is that the two computers appeal to different audiences, however, no one has quite nailed what those two demographics are. Simply this - Macs appeal to people who CREATE content and PCs appeal to those who CONSUME content. Now that's not to say there isn't some crossover, but it is an important dividing line. Also many switchers who do email and a little browsing, who then buy a Mac, at some point a light switch comes on and they realize that a computer is an empowering device and not just passive viewing screen. If I had to describe in words the difference in experience of using Windows versus a Mac, Windows feels to me like trying to view a vista (pun?) through a tiny porthole, but using a Mac feels like viewing the universe through a 180 degree transparent walk in bay on the side of a spaceship.

Joy of Tech on the subject:

http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1227.html

The key items that the pricing study failed to take into account which are very major items to ignore:

1) How do you think that the PC price is so cheap? ... lower cost of components which fail quicker and turn the unit into e-waste

2) Did you factor in the cost of your Windows machine being compromised and the impact and fallout of cleaning and restoring it

3) How about the extra crap you have to buy and run to keep point number #2 from happening but somehow doesn't seem to work

Try performing a comparison on a component to component basis for everything that makes up a PC or a MAC and then see what you come up with.

You might think that a .05 resistor in a PC versus a .06 resistor in a MAC isn't worthy of comparison. If the cheaper item fails due to its lower cost and manufacturing standards when the unit is outside of its warranty period you will quickly develop a new understanding of lower cost.

BTW, Lauren is a typical airhead user who purchases based on price and color of the unit rather than need. How about checking back in 6 months and lets see how happy she is with her purchase and the UAC prompts on Vista.

Sorry about the triplicate post, but that beta.microsoft watch has awful latency and I guess I have no patience. Again, sorry - was not intended.

im not cool enough for a mac... im just geeky enough to buy a cheap 700$ laptop and install OSX on it...
Y should I have to conform to all the other mac ppl... i thought we had moved on from the days of the Model T...

Lauren wanted a 17 inch laptop and got it.

They fail to mention that it has crappy resolution, crappy battery life (2.5 hours), weighs 8 lbs, almost 2 inches thick and has no bluetooth or firewire. (But it has that 56 kps modem! Whoot, whoot!)

She wanted a 17 inch laptop and got it. Microsoft can be proud they offer such choices. I guess.

Very simple for me in 13' too
-- In the market for 13 "laptop
-- Went to Apple Store saw high end 13" MacBook (not Pro)
-- Saw the ad with 'Lauren'
-- Looked at high end 13" PCs and Apple online at BHPHoto, JR.COM and MacMall
-- Thanks to 'Lauren' and much more importantly the logic in the Ad I'll go PC for 13" high end computer & save big money

Clever, Mr. Wilcox - a great way to boost traffic to your column is to attack Mac computers.

The bottom line is that there are two kinds of computer buyers. Some view all computers as a commodity, and they are simply looking for the cheapest device that has a particular set of features. The others have specific brand loyalties and are willing to spend more to get their preferred computer. Apple has achieved a very loyal following, and their customers are willing to pay more to get an Apple Mac. Whether it is worth spending more for Apple is a matter of opinion.

I think the 17" screen, is to make the laptop expensive enough that the Windows price doesn't make the laptop non-competitive. If Lauren had wanted a laptop with a long-lived battery, light weight and compact enough to use on planes, then the logic of this add would have selected a Linux powered Netbook.
MS is narrowing their market between high end Macs and low end netbooks. Danger is that they are squishing themselves out of the market entirely.

As the saying goes, "you get what you pay for" and I'll sprinkle along "penny-wise and pound foolish." Over the years i've purchased dozens of PCs and almost all have been crap. HP and Gateways lasted longer than the Dell machines. After my last Dell, which cost around $2,500, i was fed up with its poor quality and unreliability. Now that I've gone Mac, i'll never go back. MSFT was sneaky indeed to choose a 17 inch screen as the baseline for its comparison but most consumers don't buy a laptop with a screen that size, including myself. The Mac 17" machines are for power users who need lots of memory, speed, etc. Anyway, I don't have time for unreliable computers and will pay a few dollars extra for most reliable and best computers. Let's not even get into the subject of software apps because Microsoft can't hold a candle to Apple there either.

You forgot to mention that the 17" HP notebook she got has the resolution of Apples 13" offering...

You forgot to mention that the 17" HP notebook she got has the resolution of Apples 13" offering...

This is in the Marketing section. It deals purely with emotion, not cold hard logic and facts. To say "Lauren Is Right: Macs Cost More Than PCs" is just an emotional reaction by the sheeple backed up by Microsoft's $300 million dollars and $9 billion R&D budget, then they're too scared to show Vista in the advert, too scared to show Vista 7 in the advert, too!
I'm sure I could find an expensive PC (Dell Adamo comes to mind, what with their recent marketing).
It's all such bullocks I'm not even sure why I bothered to type this. I guess I nibbled on the bait. Again.

Ha ha ha! Thanks for another article proving the PC vs Apple winner. In light of the economy and American auto industry, you can see the similarities in some ways between Apple and the auto makers here in the US.
Auto industry - for years, America's are/were higher priced, certainly not necessarily any better quality or performance (in many cases less), but that didn't stop them from saying "we're the best", "buy American" (although many of the parts and assembly are done in foreign countries), and "we're worth the cost". When, in actuality, they're just charging alot more but depending on their group of devoted buyers and "reputation".
Apple - higher priced, proprietary, depend on group of devoted buyers, "reputation" and certainly are for those "that can afford it".
It's certainly not better quality hardware either--I have PCs that run for years with AT MOST a new power supply might be needed, if that.
Now, Apple ain't crying for a bailout but you REALLY? think that Apple "chooses" to have the limited market share they do? No. They'd rather be top dog but they also don't want to change their "elitist" ways to be considered common. Then how could they charge as much and stay in business?

Breaking NEWS! A computer with lower specs, lower build quality, lower OS, lower app suite, lower battery life, lower screen resolution cost significantly less than a higher end computer. Whew, glad your blog is being posted on several sites to let us know the obvious.

For me, this ad is similar to Hyundai's ad's that say "for $X,000 less than an equivalent Honda." Which makes me think, wow, I can get a Honda for only $X,000 more than a Hyundai!

I took the bait as well so here is my input.

I was a longtime windows user and thought that I was content with XP. About 3 years ago my wife and I got 2 new laptops - I picked up a macbook and she got a Acer. I can tell you that I am completely sold on the Mac.

Her Acer is literally falling apart ( case separating, fan makes wierd noises, DVD drive is failing, battery was shot after 1 year, etc. ) The worst part by far though was the constant attention this computer needed when it was riddled with malware and ran ridiculously slow. Now I know that with safe practices most of this can be avoided but no matter what it became a weekly ritual to " clean " off her computer and get it running right. I hate to think how many hours I wasted in this process.

All the while my macbook just kept humming along, no problems. 3 years later the macbook looks, performs, and operates like new. It has great resell value while the Acer is nearly worthless.

The car analogy is actually a very astute one although we don't need to compare luxury cars. Why are people willing to spend more money for a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla over a similar or higher spec Kia or Chevy? It's because of quality and value. 5 years later the Kia buyer might not feel like he got such a good deal when he tries to sell.

Nobody is more price conscious ( or as my wife calls cheap ) than I, but when you add it up, I have found that at least in the case of my macbook vs PC story the Apple is the better value. When you look at the quality of the hardware, the good design, the superior OS, the bundled software, and resale value it's an easy decision for me

BTW, about a year ago in total frustration with that Acer, I got the courage to download and try out Ubuntu. I am pleased to say that Ubuntu is now the OS my wife uses and she absolutely loves it. It's easy, it is fast, and it just keeps on running. I have not had to "fix" her computer since.

@frank

lol, you gave me a laugh. i bet you thought you had me there, huh? but i'm not on my computer i'm actually on my phone and quite frankly (pun intended) i could careless about typos and punctuation or sentence structure right now.
experiences are subjective and if someone is brainwashed into thinking a certain even if the evidence points otherwise they will undoubtanly think the way they were brain washed to think.
in other words "better experience" is not fact it is an opinion. got it?

and for your information i love my computer you want me to tell you how much i paid for it? lol, i got a intel quad core q6600 (to the system builders on here, yeah i knw its a little year old but its still pulling ass though), 4GB ram, 500GB sata harddrive, my mother board has 2 gigabit lan ports and 3pci express slot, and i have an nvidia8800 inside, with man lightscribe multidrive which burns an full dvd in less than 5minutes, all this connected to a 26inch 1080p monitor and all this came ip to $1056.98cents including shipping. i got the oem vista wh ich added about $100 to it. i have no problems with my system. i've had it over a year now and it performs beautifully. the only problem i had was setting up my artison printer for wifi printing. but after a couple here and there i got it installed. sometimes i dont even bother to turn on my pc i just go ahead and print from my phone.

if i was supposed to get this setup from apple i know i would have to pay way way way more than i did, probably 3 times as much. i dont see whats so premium about macs when its so hindered: i video chat with my sisters over seas all the time and i dont have to buy a camera because i use my phone as the web cam (yes, i use winsows mobile).

now let me define "sucker" in the context that i used it: you're suckered in/fooled into the hype of coolness. fooled i tell you, fooled.

now explain how windows get in your face? if ylu cant it just shows that you're nothing but another iDouche.

with the typos: i'm trying out a new keyboard on my phone and i'm just getting used to it. touchpal is still my favorite but it doesnt work well on wm6.5beta so i'm forced into using a different keyboard.

also the reason for the double posting is that i clicked the post button but the post was still right there infront of me as if it wasnt posted so naturally i clicked it again. this only happens to me on this site.

What a funny bunch of Mac Goons and Windows Sl*ts...

If people want to pay more for a better looking product, so be it. We do this when buying cars, clothes and nearly everything else. Get over it! Lastly,from a popularity point, it seems to be working, Apple is booming and Microsoft is.....

Affordability or not, the major difference between Macs and PC is at least PCs has more options on hardware and software. Some of us don't need a fully loaded computer, we prefer to put what we want on it and change what we want. With Linux, PCs and Macs, you can go from free to expensive. From what flexibility or locked-in. From one end of the spectrum, to the other end, Windows is the middle ground.

"With Linux, PCs and Macs, you can go from free to expensive. From what flexibility or locked-in. From one end of the spectrum, to the other end, Windows is the middle ground."

Actually, that's a pretty true statement.

What kind of PC's do Microsoft make? I have never seen one so they must be really hard to find. Still it's not important as the real fight is mobile and Microsoft have already lost

I think the most telling thing about the Lauren add is that Lauren didn't actually buy the computer, Microsoft did. Lauren didn't spend a dime. I think the ad should have a disclaimer. The marketing company that produced the ad (and supposedly several others like it to be released) offered to buy the subjects a computer if they could find one that satisfied their desires for under a specific amount. So not only is Lauren's computer purchase an artificial contrivance, so is her budget. We have no idea what her real budget would have been since her goal based on the marketing company's offer was $1000.

Honestly price is only one factor that should be considered in a computer purchase. The best advice I've ever received and subsequently provided on buying a computer is to determine what software you need to use, and then buy the computer that runs it. Anything else, no matter what platform or price, is a waste of time and money.

I think the most telling thing about the Lauren add is that Lauren didn't actually buy the computer, Microsoft did. Lauren didn't spend a dime. I think the ad should have a disclaimer. The marketing company that produced the ad (and supposedly several others like it to be released) offered to buy the subjects a computer if they could find one that satisfied their desires for under a specific amount. So not only is Lauren's computer purchase an artificial contrivance, so is her budget. We have no idea what her real budget would have been since her goal based on the marketing company's offer was $1000.

Honestly price is only one factor that should be considered in a computer purchase. The best advice I've ever received and subsequently provided on buying a computer is to determine what software you need to use, and then buy the computer that runs it. Anything else, no matter what platform or price, is a waste of time and money.

I am a coder whose Vista x64 workstation remains on 24/7; I built the workstation myself, I selected every piece in the chassis. I would build a Mac but Apple's monopoly on the hardware makes that somewhat difficult.

My workstation has not ever crashed in two years; solid, solid. As of this writing, it is a quad-core with 16GB Corsair, 1GB Dual DVI and full RAID 5, 1.5TB. I built it for $2,300.

The Linux folks are too socialist to pay for an OS (...but ask them to work for free; open source jobs...) and the Mac folks believe in ABM (Anything But Microsoft even though Apple is technically a monopoly).

I have a laptop that runs Mac OS, Vista, and Ubuntu. Because the laptop is pretty, it could be hardware made by Apple or hardware made by Sony. I'm not telling.

What bugs me about these arguments is the comparison of various hardware + operating system vs. same hardware same operating system. Even if we were to compare Sony hardware (the windows' Apple) to Apple Hardware, we'd have a 1:1 comparison, but that doesn't address software vs. software.

I'll fully agree that hardware designed to run Windows costs less when pricing HARDWARE, but I want to run Mac OS SOFTWARE on it-- we can blame Apple for that not being an off-the-shelf choice.

I'm not opposed to paying more for something that's better designed, but I have to look at the use. I drive both a Chevy 4x4 and a Mercedes and it would be silly to compare the two, because while both are 'vehicles', they serve two different purposes beyond basic gas-pedal functionality.

One day, we'll figure this out.

OK. So lets make a comparison between a product from a single vendor (Apple) and a "random" representation of a wide marked (PC):

From HP.com I've found a 13" Voodoo Envy 133 with an old 1.8 GHz CPU, 2 GB ram and a 64 GB SSD. It costs $2,699.99 with a $300 instant rebate.

Now we compare that to Apples expensive MacBook Air (not just the regular MacBook with better specs). If we buy the most expensive model (and add the external DVD burner to match the HP) we get a newer 1.86 GHz CPU, 2 GB ram and a 128 GB SDD for $2,598.00....

OMFG!!! PCs(*) are more expensive than Macs! And you even get better specs with the Mac!!!

*: And I'll just assume that this model is a fair representation of any/every PC out there :)

Up next: How come some cars are more expensive than other cars, even though they are smaller?

I am a coder whose Vista x64 workstation remains on 24/7; I built the workstation myself, I selected every piece in the chassis. I would build a Mac but Apple's monopoly on the hardware makes that somewhat difficult.

My workstation has not ever crashed in two years; solid, solid. As of this writing, it is a quad-core with 16GB Corsair, 1GB Dual DVI and full RAID 5, 1.5TB. I built it for $2,300.

The Linux folks are too socialist to pay for an OS (...but ask them to work for free; open source jobs...) and the Mac folks believe in ABM (Anything But Microsoft even though Apple is technically a monopoly).

So is that the point Microsoft wants to make?

Not that they have now made Windows safer from viruses and spyware, not that the OS is easier to use, not that it's more stable, not that it's more efficient, that the OS is more productive, that the hardware is more compatible or better constructed, that people better appreciate their products & services.

No, the only thing Microsoft wants to say is that it's cheaper.

So the reason all those people switched last year to a Mac was because they wanted to buy a more expensive computer...a computer they can't afford this year because of the recession?!!

Wow! Talk about drinking the Koolaid!!

Ups. Forgot the most important thing: The comparison shows that the foolish headline is incorrect.

Since there are PCs that costs more than (comparable) Macs, Macs does not cost more than PCs. QED.

Now, that is not the same as saying that Macs are cheaper than PCs, but rather and indication that it is silly to compare a single brand to a wide market segment.

I will buy a Mac over a PC at pretty much any price. It has nothing to do with the hardware but everything to do with the Operating system and the way that the software functions on a Mac Versus a PC. I just fell into the PC price thing and bought a $600. PC. I have had it for a month and it sucks. I just got back from the Apple Store with my new iMac and will never look back. The PC is now on Craigs list.... for cheap. I will never be a Microsoft sucker again!

So what if Macs cost more than PCs? If Apple charges it, and people pay it, what's the problem?

There's nothing sinister about people paying a premium for products they like, despite the existence of a competing, comparable, and cheaper product. Apple isn't deceptive about its products, and the people who pay a lot for them tend to like them a lot. There's no Apple Tax, because people don't choose to pay a tax. They simply have to. People choose to buy Apple.

Hell, if it's sustainable (and Apple has a 30-year history of more or less the same kind of pricing activity), then this is the business plan to beat. What's better for a company and its successful products - charging more with a higher profit margin, or charging less with a thinner margin? Ask Microsoft that question - see which model it chooses for its software products?

The market will make this call. Apple either sustains demand despite its pricing practices or it doesn't.

So what if Macs cost more than PCs? If Apple charges it, and people pay it, what's the problem?

There's nothing sinister about people paying a premium for products they like, despite the existence of a competing, comparable, and cheaper product. Apple isn't deceptive about its products, and the people who pay a lot for them tend to like them a lot. There's no Apple Tax, because people don't choose to pay a tax. They simply have to. People choose to buy Apple.

Hell, if it's sustainable (and Apple has a 30-year history of more or less the same kind of pricing activity), then this is the business plan to beat. What's better for a company and its successful products - charging more with a higher profit margin, or charging less with a thinner margin? Ask Microsoft that question - see which model it chooses for its software products?

The market will make this call. Apple either sustains demand despite its pricing practices or it doesn't.

@DougE :

BULLLLLLLLLLLLLSHIT.

It has nothing to do with component price. It has to do with COMPETITION. One company makes OSX Loaded computers.

Dozens make PC's. That competition drives down prices. Macs have the same components as PC's these days.

REALLY! No subscription for anti-virus needed, best tech help there is an Apple Store! Price not really higher when you compare properly. BMWs cost more than most Chevy's also. Try this deal below!

Deal: Apple 13-in. MacBook for only $799. Maybe that Lauren chick did not look hard enough! http://bit.ly/3q2ol

Congrats Lauren you bought a complete piece of crap for $699!

REALLY! No subscription for anti-virus needed, best tech help there is an Apple Store! Price not really higher when you compare properly. BMWs cost more than most Chevy's also. Try this deal below!

Deal: Apple 13-in. MacBook for only $799. Maybe that Lauren chick did not look hard enough! http://bit.ly/3q2ol

Congrats Lauren you bought a complete piece of crap for $699!

If Apple is gaining marketshare in a recession then Microsoft has major problems.

Does Microsoft think that Mac users don't know that wintel boxes are cheaper. New switchers are willing to switch to Mac to avoid the experience they had with their previous wintel machine. No amount of advertising is going to help microsoft win back a frustrated user.

A thread that runs through much of this discussion is that Apple is a closed system and if they only would release the OS and other software to run on generic pcs everybody would be happy and Apple would make tons of money. If Apple were willing to sell OSX with no support, totally no support, if used on other than a Macintosh would you buy it? I could see Apple head in this direction depending the outcome of the Psystar case.

Why do Mac fans insist on saying that if you get a Windows machine, you will pay more for software and updates and stuff? Did you know that lots of software for Windows are free?

Aside from the included WIndows software, you have:
Antivirus: Avast, AVG (free) Updates (free)
Malware: Threatfire (free) Updates (free)
Firewall: Zonealarm

As for the iLife stuff, well, doesn't windows have Movie Maker, Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows DVD Maker, Windows Media Player etc.? Are these not good enough for iLife? Well, how about Picasa, VideoPad Video Editor, and WinAmp? All free.

Office Suite: OpenOffice (free).

Programming: Visual Studio Express editions (free).

I could go on and on with the list of free stuff you can download for Windows, but I cannot say the same for Mac. In fact, most of the software that Apple doesn't provide you, you have to pay for it.

Comments about windows getting viruses and crashing and is less secure than windows? If you use the utilities I listed above, you won't get any and if you are dumb enough to click on those porn links, then those above utilities will protect your ass too. There is also proof that Macs are less secure than windows so much for that.

Also, I can't remember the last time I crashed Windows... and I use it more than 8 hours a day.

Oh, the last thing is that someone mentioned that they should just release a version of OS X that runs on all PC's. It's not going to happen. Apple would need to ensure that the OS works with every combination of PC hardware out there. That means getting every vendor to write drivers for OS X. Microsoft has been doing this from the start and has paid their dues and they have a huge lead in this area. If Apple were to do it today, I suspect that you would hear stories about OS X frequently crashing due to incompatible hardware... This is the sole reason why Mac OS X is so stable, because they control the hardware it runs on. It's not because they are better programmers or have better software quality control. If you look at those people who try to install OS X on non-apple hardware, you would realize how bad OS X driver support really is.

Everything said by Microsoft's ad applies to Thinkpads just as much as to Apple. Ditto high end Vaios.

In fact, sometimes those lines are a little more expensive than Apple.

Did anyone try to compare a $2500 HP 17" to the one she 'bought'? Or what about the one she bought to a Dell XPS 17" laptop for the same $2500?

I bet HP would have preferred her to buy the $2500 laptop as they make more money doing it. Somehow I bet the quality, price, and features are higher there too.

Fault Apple for not having lower priced PC's ok, but what is all the other arguing about?

The short answer is she got what she wanted for the price she wanted to pay, a market Apple doesn't compete in.

I am sure everyone on the board here does NOT own a $699 17" laptop...

The problem with these ads is that they preach to the choir. If you're buying a computer on price alone, you're not buying a Mac.

Maybe you also drive a Corolla, drink Folgers, buy your clothes from Old Navy and order from the Value Menu every time. More power to you, what do I care?

But do you get this angry about BMW, Starbucks, Nordstrom and the Cheesecake Factory?

Some people charge a premium for their products, and other people agree to pay it. When it comes to Apple, I pay the premium. I'm not uninformed, I know exactly what I'm paying for and why. It's a superior platform. OS X and Windows are fine operating systems. OS X is better. Macs tend to be more trouble-free. Sure, it's because they have to support fewer hardware configurations, but so what? It's not about which company has a harder job to do, it's about which platform works better.

Why would you ever want to run Windows?

Between Linux and OS X you have your bases covered. Windows serves no purpose, other than to run cruddy business software. (Of course, you can't run real databases, APIs, or professional content creation software on the shitheap that is Windows.)

Quality: Linux or OS X (depends on your use)

Price: Linux

Seriously, why would you run Windows unless you absolutely had to? No home user needs to.

Why would you ever want to run Windows?

Between Linux and OS X you have your bases covered. Windows serves no purpose, other than to run cruddy business software. (Of course, you can't run real databases, APIs, or professional content creation software on the shitheap that is Windows.)

Quality: Linux or OS X (depends on your use)

Price: Linux

Seriously, why would you run Windows unless you absolutely had to? No home user needs to.

What's with all the double posts?
Using Internet Explorer?

Get Firefox!

Lauren does represent most PC buyers - they don't think PC's should cost more than $300-$700 dollars - either because they can't spend more or simply don't think there is value in spending more. i don't see what the big deal. THIS IS TRUE OF EVERYTHING.

But for some reason, Pc buyers wthink anyone who pays more than $700 for a computer is getting "ripped off" because they only value screen size and what they're paying today. That is their perogative.

Macs are not over-priced as plenty of people buy them. They are only OVER PRICED because you don't value them more than you value a PC. It's as simple as that. And cl;early by the chart you show above - if Mac prices were too high, Macs would not be growing at 35% a year (this year, with the economy, sales GROWth is slowing - not sales are dropping, sales GROWTH is slowing, that is key difference). mac buyers do not live in a vaccum - they can see sunday ad pricing but they choose to make DIFFERENT buying decisions than you - just as you might bread should only be $.99 a loaf or prefer a Pontiac over a BMW - that is YOUR choice.

Ms is merely putting a face to PC buyers - you judge a personal computers value by price and screen size - nothing wrong with that. AND nothing wrong with spending more if you value things DIFFERENTLY.

The only problem with the ad is that does it tick off Sony, HP or Dell when MS is telling consumers brands don't matter and $699 is the max anyone should pay for a computer?

Curious. If that cheap HP laptop is so great then why are there also PC laptops that cost well over $2,000? Are those people overpaying?

There are only 2 reasons to use Windows:

1) Autodesk
2) games

Everything else is done better under any variant of Unix.

All us Windows users are the suckers. Myself included. I have to use Autodesk products and I like to play games. So please stop trying to defend ourselves. Yes I put together my own computer. Because I can. Most people can't. Therefore they buy a computer based on the price. And they get a POS.

you outline the cost both the software and hardware, but you only use hardware to evaluate value proposition. obviously the software is the difference.

the cost, obviously, is hardware and software.

why then do you only evaluate the value based upon the hardware?

obviously the "cost" gap is related to the software...which you did not compare.

The funny thing is that all Microsoft can come up with for an anti-Apple ad is the cheap hardware which MS doesn't even make! And now everyone who spends more than $1000 on a PC is a doofus? I'm sure HP, Lenovo, Dell, Acer, etc. love that message.

They can't even figure out a software or OS feature to brag about? They've got 90% of the market, why are they even mentioning Apple?

The whole ad makes Macs seem very desirable when people have the money. It like comparing Toyota to Kia.

Can we please have another ad with Bill Gates shaking his ass, or Jerry Seinfeld sniffing shoes? That's the kind of zany stuff I associate with Microsoft whereas Apple just cranks out quality products that last forever. How boring.

I am glad that people are pointing out the fact that it is not about PC's vs. Macs but the fact that we are all paying too much for computers. Based on the commercial all 17 inch notebooks should cost under $1000. Because Lauren, computer expert that she is, got the very best top of the line computer that any computer geek would die for and we should all insist that the top of the line Sony's and Dell's and Toshiba's and heaven forbid that HP make something better than the AMD (are they still around?) based computer be sold at the same price as Lauren's computer.

Hello? Hello? Anyone out there?

Okay, so maybe she got just screwed by the salesperson.

Only smacktards argue about what kind of computer other people should buy.

Macs DO NOT cost more than PCs. What your graph simply shows is that you can purchase a lower cost PC than you can a Mac; which is definitely true. But when you compare similarly systems (processor, ram, HD, software bundle, size, weight, etc) the prices are nearly identical - sometimes more for the Mac, sometimes more for the PC.

It is important to understand what is really being shown in those graphs, not just to make blanket statements that are actually false.

Macs DO NOT cost more than PCs. What your graph simply shows is that you can purchase a lower cost PC than you can a Mac; which is definitely true. But when you compare similarly systems (processor, ram, HD, software bundle, size, weight, etc) the prices are nearly identical - sometimes more for the Mac, sometimes more for the PC.

It is important to understand what is really being shown in those graphs, not just to make blanket statements that are actually false.

abc123 " I could go on and on with the list of free stuff you can download for Windows, but I cannot say the same for Mac. In fact, most of the software that Apple doesn't provide you, you have to pay for it."

Actually, the quality of free software for OS X is excellent. Picasa, Open Office, VLC and other great free apps are available for the Mac. Although you won't find near as much free software, you will find just about everything you will need and most of it is of good quality unlike the tons of garbage-ware you have to wade through to find a good windows app.

If you like windows, fine - use it. I have tried both and I know what works best for me and my business. I also know that the real cost of ownership difference for the apple is very little.

jhn :
Why would you ever want to run Windows?

Between Linux and OS X you have your bases covered. Windows serves no purpose, other than to run cruddy business software. (Of course, you can't run real databases, APIs, or professional content creation software on the shitheap that is Windows.)
________________________________________________

Oh I dunno.... Maybe it's a shit load size library of games. I mean.... the only thing I use my PC for is business apps.

I mean I hardly even play my library of over 50 games. I don't use SQL Server either. I also can't do MySql work on a PC. I can use visual studios, or Photoshop, or GIMP, or any number of video editing suites.

Oh wait.... I can.... and I do?

Oh shit?

Why don't you shut the fuck up until you have something factual to say.

The reality is the following:
Most people know Windows because that's what they see at work or have to work with.
Most people are lazy and don't bother to look around for other options, and think wasting 2 hours scanning for viruses and malware is normal.
Most people don't care about better things and want the cheapest so the salesperson at Best Buy gives them a Windows laptop and 6 months later they understand the saying "you get what you pay for".
It's mainly about not knowing the options.

The reality is the following:
Most people know Windows because that's what they see at work or have to work with.
Most people are lazy and don't bother to look around for other options, and think wasting 2 hours scanning for viruses and malware is normal.
Most people don't care about better things and want the cheapest so the salesperson at Best Buy gives them a Windows laptop and 6 months later they understand the saying "you get what you pay for".
It's mainly about not knowing the options.

The reality is the following:
Most people know Windows because that's what they see at work or have to work with.
Most people are lazy and don't bother to look around for other options, and think wasting 2 hours scanning for viruses and malware is normal.
Most people don't care about better things and want the cheapest so the salesperson at Best Buy gives them a Windows laptop and 6 months later they understand the saying "you get what you pay for".
It's mainly about not knowing the options.

Wow, this beta site sucks baloney. Triple post!

There is a reason that people buy MAC's and why people go to places like Starbucks. It's about the look, and perhaps the ambiance. My wife very much like's MAC's - not because they are cheaper, but because they have built a cache of cool. She doesn't care about the price (well a little bit now a days) but more importantly if it's going to fit in her purse. I tell her a netbook will have similar power and cost less. Her answer: but it won't look cool. And supposedly Apple make's easier to take care of everything.

I think people really need to give this argument up. People buy MAC's predominantly because it's based on a cool cache (ghetto fabulous anyone?) and People by PC's because it's cheaper and often times better in performance.

I don't know about the car comparison, seems more like a wallet to me. Features are pretty much the same with minor differences. People choose a wallet for quality, price or for style, or for a preference for a particular brand they think is cool.

The Apple wallet may be high quality and stylish, but to say that is why it is better than the Windows wallet is wrong. There are lots of Windows wallets to choose from, some are low quality some are high quality, some not so stylish and some that are very stylish.

As far as price is concerned it is true there are no absolutes here, but by far on average the same hardware will cost less for a PC than for a Mac any amount of shopping around will prove this. I can't see how any person could make a claim otherwise with a straight face.

The other issue is brand loyalty. If people buy Mac for the brand fine, but please just admit that you pay more because you like the brand. It's not the quality, it's not the style(although they may be a factor, there are alternatives that are stylish and high quality), the deciding factor is the brand. You think it's cool so you pay more, fine. In a recession I think Microsoft is smart playing the more for your money card. For some people brand loyalty will win out, but many people want value not a brand.

'Lauren' is cool enough for a Volkswagen. She should get a Subaru, it will save her a metric ton of money.

@billybob:

Staged or not, her requirements were a 17" laptop for no more than $1,000. So, it doesn't really matter if she walked in the Apple store or not, because she wouldn't have found what she was looking for in the first place.

In the end, you can yak all you want about better quality, etc, but the point M$ is making and Joe is affirming is that an Apple Tax exists, even when comparing similar quality. Moreover, the whole PC industry is about differentiation of quality. So what if she got what you think is an inferior laptop. Most people are on a budget and can't afford something that costs four times as much, especially when considering they don't need the kind of performance and style a $2,700 Macbook Pro provides.

In my opinion, the ad has been a great success, and I very much look forward to M$ continuing to stick it to them, especially when W7 is released and finally does away with all the Vista hysteria.

I'm with nickj on this.

I drive a Mercedes-Benz SLK that costs over $40,000. I could buy a Kia for $15,000. Did I make a bad decision? My car has more amenities, is more comfortable, more stylish, better designed and engineered and will still be worth twice the price if the Kia when I sell it to get a new car. I can't tell you how much more I enjoy the Mercedes then less expensive vehicles I've had before.

The Mac is the same deal. Add to that the virus threat, cost for antivirus software, a better operating system. Keep the money. I want my Mac.

By the way I have both Macs and PCs and I'm fluent with both. I much prefer the Mac and that judgement can only be made if you've used both for many years to understand the intricasies of each operating system.

@jay: They obviously choose their requirements very well to exclude Apple from the start. You could choose the requirements like 'must have aluminum shell' and make Apple to be the cheaper brand.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/adamo/topics/en/us/adamo-pearl?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

That starts at $1999 and only has a 13" screen. Does that mean there is a Dell tax as well? There is a Sony tax too, and an HP one.

If that is the case then every manufacturer has a tax except the cheapest one. The Microsoft tax applies when you have to pay for an entire product when you did not want it. If their is an Apple tax then you would have to buy a copy of OSX every time you bought an iPod.

In Microsoft's own words ...

"As you start looking closer at mice on the shelf, you'll spot the
price tags. You might see a well-known mouse with a price of $79,
and a brand you've never heard of with a tag of $39. If the
lesser-known brand is Microsoft-compatible, why should you
fork out the extra $40 for a mouse you've seen before?

"Brooks says Microsoft uses high-quality components that raise
the price but make a Microsoft mouse worth the extra cash. ...

"Brooks say the costs of Microsoft's sophisticated product
testing and customer support systems are also passed on.

"Scott Schulte, a product line manager at Logitech, also says
you can't cut corners on price without giving up quality. You
can be sure the higher price of a popular mouse accompanies
higher quality."

http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles%2F1993%2Fjul93%2F93n0710.asp
-------
Interesting to hear what these industry people REALLY think.
Guess what, Mac users already knew this -- and long ago.

This comparison is so tiring. It ascribes no value to the remarkable software package that Apple provides, as well as build quality, esthetics, support, etc, as if computers were merely a bag of "specs". What if we purchased cars this way? For example, Compare: (which car would you want?) (data from todays manufacturer's web sites)

Feature ==== ============Car 1 vs. car 2
Model Year ----------------- 2009 .......2009
Bright Red Exterior/Black Interior.... Yes ........Yes
DOHC Turbocharged Engine...........260 hp.....300 hp
Manual Transmission..................5-speed.......6-speed
Stability & Traction Control..............Yes......... Yes
Spoiler, Rear.....................................Yes ..........No
Premium Sound with MP3............... Yes .........Yes
Anti-theft System............................. Yes......... Yes
18" wheels ................................Forged......Light Alloy
4 Wheel Anti-lock Disc Brakes...........Yes..........Yes
Cruise Control...................................Yes.......... Yes
Stainless Steel Exhaust..................... Yes.......... Yes
Floor Mats........................................ Yes ..........Yes
Fog Lamps........................................Yes.............Yes
Performance Suspension....................Yes............Yes
Performance Y-rated Tires..........P225/40R18.....18 x 7.5 front,
...........................................................................18 x 8.5 rear
Drive-train Warranty.................5 years/100K ......4 years/50K

Suggested Price.............................$22,390..........$44,383

I guess most PC users would choose Car 1, about the same "specs", but half the price. But not everyone.

Car 1 = Chevy Cobalt SS
Car 2 = BMW 135i

You are all barking up the wrong tree..

The question that should be being asked is:

"HOW MUCH MORE WILL PEOPLE PAY NOT TO USE MICROSOFT PRODUCTS?"

More and more each and every day it seems...

People like JMB just do not get it. I don't use a macbook because it is " cool " or so I can brag about it. I use it because it works very well, is well designed, and I think the OS is superior to anything else on the market now. I could care less about the glowing apple,if it disappeared tomorrow I would still buy another Apple because of the aforementioned reasons.

I am so glad someone mentioned the Microsoft "Tax" when buying peripherals. I just picked up a new Xbox controller for my son that is Microsoft branded, not because I wanted to pay more, or look cool but because it's a better made controller than the 3rd party options I could find.

What is Microsoft trying to do here? Do they think Apple customers don't know Mac is more expensive than PC? It's not about the price. It's about the experience of working with premium products which Microsoft can't create with Windows on a PC.

@ CC.Torment

BULLLSHIT back to you... try doing some simple pricing research for your self instead of shooting your face off!

Mac's are more expensive. That is true. But many people overlook the fact that the hardware comes with a very cheap [129 $] OS already installed. MacOSX. Feature wise only compareable to Windows Vista Ultimate. And how much is Vista Ultimate ? It used to be over 500 $ before they cut the price in half due to poor sales. An OEM version will most likely still cost you between 200-300 $. That's part of the price difference.

Another often overlooked point: Mac's have a high 2nd hand value. A 6 year old PPC will easily sell for 300 $ whereas a 6 year old PC is virtually worthless. [ www.sellamac.com ]

Another point: most Mac's use laptop-miniaturized hardware, which is more expensive than standard bulky desktop stuff.
People using Mac's are also less likely to have to upgrade their hardware because of new OS demands, like in Windows.
A final point: The MacOSX software is designed to work with that specific hardware found in Apple PCs. Therefore you 'll have a more stable and reliable PC because of that. The common crashes and virus-infected Windows PCs cost a lot of time [and therefore money]. Intangible, but important.

The cold numbers might point out that Mac's are more expensive, but there is more to it than just that. For an average consumer a standard PC might be the best option, but if you want a bit more...

@billybob:

Yes. You could certainly set an aluminum case as the requirement, but that's not a common component of PC based laptops or one that most people really care to have in a laptop. However, it is a component that's common to the three MacBooks, so we can't strip that out now can we? Moreover, all Dell is doing is trying to increase their margins by incorporating higher-end fit and finish components into some of their laptops, but they also sell the full range of laptops as well. In a down economy, it makes complete sense for M$ to try to go after the people considering a switch to Apple. What a steep recession and 1/2 truths make, with the later being M$ taking a queue from the tactics Apple used so successfully in their Mac vs. PC ads.

Mac's are simply over priced crap. I have personally built a ASUS laptop with a AMD processor running OSX that spanks the living day lights out of the Mac books and the Asus laptop cost less that $700. Why would I want to spend an extra $1300 to have a "Mac"? Oh thats right, people want Mac's because they are trendy looking and want other people to see it and say "wow, that guy/girl is cool because they can afford a Mac" Thats just lame. Get this, I took my Asus laptop to Starbucks after I built it and sat down amongst the Mac users and turned my laptop on intentionally at the same time as one of the new Mac books the other guys had and you should have seen their mouths drop open and their jaws hit the floor when a non Mac computer for one, was loading OSX and 2, loaded OSX a good 30-45 seconds faster. I was asked how I got OSX on a non mac computer and just had to say that I'm smarter than the average mac yuppie.

It all comes down to Macs are a stupid status symbol and the feeling of being better than someone else because you have a mac. Just the same way people that drive BMW's feel when they see someone driving a old Honda accord.

People need to get off their high horses and think about what they are buying and buy something because its worth it, not becuase of how "cool" you will look with it.

Mac users are lame and are only good for kicking.

Be smart and buy a PC, besides, with a PC you actually have a selection when it comes to software! Imagine that, if Mac's are so great, why is there literally 1/2 a shelf of Mac software to buy?

Mac's are simply over priced crap. I have personally built a ASUS laptop with a AMD processor running OSX that spanks the living day lights out of the Mac books and the Asus laptop cost less that $700. Why would I want to spend an extra $1300 to have a "Mac"? Oh thats right, people want Mac's because they are trendy looking and want other people to see it and say "wow, that guy/girl is cool because they can afford a Mac" Thats just lame. Get this, I took my Asus laptop to Starbucks after I built it and sat down amongst the Mac users and turned my laptop on intentionally at the same time as one of the new Mac books the other guys had and you should have seen their mouths drop open and their jaws hit the floor when a non Mac computer for one, was loading OSX and 2, loaded OSX a good 30-45 seconds faster. I was asked how I got OSX on a non mac computer and just had to say that I'm smarter than the average mac yuppie.

It all comes down to Macs are a stupid status symbol and the feeling of being better than someone else because you have a mac. Just the same way people that drive BMW's feel when they see someone driving a old Honda accord.

People need to get off their high horses and think about what they are buying and buy something because its worth it, not becuase of how "cool" you will look with it.

Mac users are lame and are only good for kicking.

Be smart and buy a PC, besides, with a PC you actually have a selection when it comes to software! Imagine that, if Mac's are so great, why is there literally 1/2 a shelf of Mac software to buy?

So if you want to show the Mac people how smart you are, then you shouldn't buy a PC with Windows on it right? Because you installed OSX on a PC. So in the end it comes down to software, right?

@Mikeythekat: So the OSX is better, right ? The hardware is more expensive, true. Unfortunately you can't install OSX on standard hardware, because then the optimized interaction Apple programmed will be lost. What you did is put a BMW engine in a Daihatsu Cuore. Fun, but not for everyone. And you still have to wait how the hardware/software will interact. And talking about showing off...

NB-My Macs only take around 25-45 sec. to boot, depending on HD size. [MacMINI and iMac]. What are you doing wrong ?

I'm Lol'ing because everyone here is complaining about the Mac fanboys invading their message boards and running off anti-Microsoft stuff... How untrue.

... I'm Lol'ing at Mac-bashing that goes on instead of the PC-praising from these people.

Nobody has so far said anything like "Oh, well Dell makes fantastic computers" or "At the price I paid, I'm happy with my Acer"...

Just a lot of Mac-bashing and "Macs can't do this" and "People who use Macs are idiots" and "Mac fanboys should take a hike" and the like.

And people wonder why Mac users feel the need to defend their choices in computing.

The "cost of the purchase of a computer" is such a little component when considering the true cost of ownership.

What does it cost to maintain? (What kind of IT support is there to update all of the businesses computers overnight? How expensive are repairs?)

Do I lose time and effort because of incompatibilities with the mainstream market (Macs and PC's incompatibilities)

How much productivity is lost due to unstable applications and operating systems (Is Windows worse or better than OSX?)

Are the business needs met by the hardware/software solution? (Fancier computers do not mean better productivity, however Windows services such as indexing can drag performance down to a crawl making the desktop a source of total frustration).

The bottom line is there is no "right" solution, only the best compromise for one's needs. If this is believed to be correct, then the majority of postings in this topic are probably true for the individual who submitted them, but they are meaningless as general "truths".

I'm quite sure that the Mac=bashers on this forum probably never touched a Mac or MacOSX for an extended period of time. They keep talking about lack of software [so, except for gaming, what can you NOT do on a Mac? Difficult to answer, right?...] and the price [irrelevant, because it is a personal choice - if you are willing to pay a specific amount of money, why not ? At least you know exactly what yoy get].

Whereas most Mac users have a lot of experience with the Windows platform and can verbalize very well what they do not like.

On a side note - Microsoft themselves keep 'borrowing' elements from MacOSX for their Windows OS... so there must be something good, there, right ?

@ ger
Agree 100% percent!
Windows users never spent more than 30 minutes on a Mac, but they know everything about them, right?
The ones that spend months on them end up ditching Windows.

I don't think anyone can argue that the Lauren commercials are far more effective than the Bill and Jerry commercials that ran previously.

Anyway, the commercial got it's point across effectively. For an average user like Lauren, a $700 laptop will suffice. While the Mac laptop will give her the cool factor, it's not the reason why she's getting one. She's getting one because, like all of us, she's got specific needs to meet an end. Paying an extra amount to look cool is not one of her top priorities. As for quality, HP is a big name and is everywhere in terms of peripherals and marketing. So while HP quality may or may not be great, the perception of quality is there... through marketing.

Imagine shopping for a car to get you to work and back everyday. One could look at the Honda Civic or one could look at a BMW. Both get the job done. One's cheaper and plain looking, the other is more expensive and has the cool factor.

My mom has a Dell studio 15" and my friend has an HP 13" touchscreen laptop that reverses as a tablet. Both work fine and quality is fine. Everything works as advertised. Other than the initial cost of the laptop, the software is all downloaded free off the internet (OpenOffice, Avast, Threatfire, picasa, VLC, Zonealarm, Google Earth, Rocketdock, etc..). So really, the total cost of ownership is the cost of the laptop. Which, in this case, the Mac will always lose.

Take your pick.

I own three Macs (two IMac and one B&W two run OSX Tiger and the other one Panther).

I also own XP machines, and one Vista laptop dual boot. I also have several laptops and desktops that run Ubuntu or some other form of Linux.

Yes Mac is cool and Windows XP is fairly reliable, but I really prefer Ubuntu for the amount of free applications,overall performance,it is virus resistant and the online community support is top notch.

One need not spend thousands on a new Mac when a used one would do just fine. Some of the G3 macs can be had for $100 or less on E-bay and some of the G4 and newer (but used) can be had for much less than a new Vista laptop.

Finally to anyone out there, don't feel that you must pick one OS or the other. There is no reason that you can't use all three of the mainstream operating systems...I do. And you don't need a unlimited bank account either.

If I have listed you below, it's because you have told a lie are you have no idea what makes a computer system work or you must think the insides work like "magic!" If you are going to reply to defend yourself, please use a source if you want me to take you seriously. Also don't cherry pick your sources, because i will be forced to shame you and make you feel like the idiot you are.

billybob :

Apple sell computers, not OSX. They have no interest in making an OS to be sold on <$700 laptops.
-----------------------------------------------
Are you stupid? Mac sells OSX on other peoples computer components, you sir are a total dumbass for not knowing this. Please shut up until you figure out what you are talking about.
****************************************************************************

Frank Forum :

Why do these articles fail to mention software? All they compare are hardware and price. I feel OS X does not get in my face like Windows does. Also, when web coding I use Panic's Coda and that is a big reason to use a Mac over a PC. These articles are a just beating the same drum everyone has already heard before. Apple is still in business because people like their products enough to buy them. Also, does anyone think about the Sony tax? Sony makes low end products but what about their high-end notebooks? Maybe Sony is let off the hook because they also make low-end computers too?
-----------------------------------------------
Please share some resources supporting your claims, until you do, please stop making assumptions.
****************************************************************************

Yacko :

Simply this - Macs appeal to people who CREATE content and PCs appeal to those who CONSUME content.
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I guess people who animate, create games, use autocad, and set up network super computers on PC's aren't creating anything? You sir, are wrong and need to either admit it or STFU
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DougE :

Try performing a comparison on a component to component basis for everything that makes up a PC or a MAC and then see what you come up with.

You might think that a .05 resistor in a PC versus a .06 resistor in a MAC isn't worthy of comparison.
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Wow are you saying that Mac's have an exclusive agreement with all of the manufacturers of resistors? I think not, once again put up or shut up.
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carmen Hughes :

As the saying goes, "you get what you pay for" and I'll sprinkle along "penny-wise and pound foolish."
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You are baseing you computer consumerism on a cliche? You're from a shithole town in a dirty part of the south I bet. Seriously don't live your life based off of cliches, leave that to the retards.
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Drugal :

I took the bait as well so here is my input.

I was a longtime windows user and thought that I was content with XP. About 3 years ago my wife and I got 2 new laptops - I picked up a macbook and she got a Acer. I can tell you that I am completely sold on the Mac.

Her Acer is literally falling apart ( case separating, fan makes wierd noises, DVD drive is failing, battery was shot after 1 year, etc. )
-----------------------------------------------
OK, I'll play your game. I bought a macbook pro three years ago alongside a $600 HP laptop. The Macbook pro caught on fire a few years later and I'm still using the HP to cure world hunger. Seriously STFU.
****************************************************************************

OK. So lets make a comparison between a product from a single vendor (Apple) and a "random" representation of a wide marked (PC):

From HP.com I've found a 13" Voodoo Envy 133 with an old 1.8 GHz CPU, 2 GB ram and a 64 GB SSD. It costs $2,699.99 with a $300 instant rebate.

Now we compare that to Apples expensive MacBook Air (not just the regular MacBook with better specs). If we buy the most expensive model (and add the external DVD burner to match the HP) we get a newer 1.86 GHz CPU, 2 GB ram and a 128 GB SDD for $2,598.00....

OMFG!!! PCs(*) are more expensive than Macs! And you even get better specs with the Mac!!!

*: And I'll just assume that this model is a fair representation of any/every PC out there :)

Up next: How come some cars are more expensive than other cars, even though they are smaller?
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You need to look around a little more or maybe refer back to the resources I posted earlier. Stop looking for really bad PC deals to try and prove a point because it makes you sound ignorant.
****************************************************************************

MattZ :

So what if Macs cost more than PCs? If Apple charges it, and people pay it, what's the problem?

There's nothing sinister about people paying a premium for products they like
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The problem is that most people who use Mac's have no idea what makes a computer well built or worth the price they paid, if they did they wouldn't have bought a mac.
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Paul :

REALLY! No subscription for anti-virus needed
-----------------------------------------------
Have you never heard of AVG or one of the many AV's out there for free? Also why would someone make or design a virus for a mac, why target 5% of the market versus the 90%? There is no good reason to make a virus for a mac because mac's run very very very few servers or data bases of any kind. Mac's are not invulnerable to Viruses, it's just the plain simple fact that not many people use Mac's so not many people try to make stuff to break them or abuse them.
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jhn :

Why would you ever want to run Windows?

Between Linux and OS X you have your bases covered. Windows serves no purpose, other than to run cruddy business software. (Of course, you can't run real databases, APIs, or professional content creation software on the shitheap that is Windows.)
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actually you can run databases and professional content on windows systems. Millions upon millions of websites, programs, APi's and professional content is created or used from windows systems. If you don't know this then you don't code yourself or you are lieing through your teeth.
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Stephen :

Macs DO NOT cost more than PCs.
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Seriously? Do you live on mars and walk around all day mumbling "nah, nah, nah!" with your fingers in your ears or are you just simple?
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Ralph :

I drive a Mercedes-Benz SLK that costs over $40,000. I could buy a Kia for $15,000. Did I make a bad decision? My car has more amenities, is more comfortable, more stylish, better designed and engineered and will still be worth twice the price if the Kia when I sell it to get a new car. I can't tell you how much more I enjoy the Mercedes then less expensive vehicles I've had before.

The Mac is the same deal. Add to that the virus threat, cost for antivirus software, a better operating system. Keep the money. I want my Mac.
-----------------------------------------------
Seriously enough with the analogies to cars, because it only makes sense to you because you are wrong. The analogy should go "pay 15,000 for a mustang with a microsoft interior or pay 80,000 for a mustang with a Mac interior." Seriously dude, Mac's and PC's use the same parts!!! you are a fucking idiot if you don't know this after all these posts!

Also AVG along with many great AV programs are free!!! Also people who have any competance with their OS never get viruses, only the computer retards do. Also the Mac OS isn''t the best one out there, linux is by far and its FREEE!! Holy shit you're an idiot and are the poster boy for " I love Mac's even though I have no idea what I'm talking about" crowd! STFU and get the hell out of starbucks already because no one thinks your cool because you have a Mac, lol.
**************************************

ger :

I'm quite sure that the Mac=bashers on this forum probably never touched a Mac or MacOSX for an extended period of time. They keep talking about lack of software [so, except for gaming, what can you NOT do on a Mac? Difficult to answer, right?...] and the price [irrelevant, because it is a personal choice - if you are willing to pay a specific amount of money, why not ? At least you know exactly what yoy get].

Whereas most Mac users have a lot of experience with the Windows platform and can verbalize very well what they do not like.

On a side note - Microsoft themselves keep 'borrowing' elements from MacOSX for their Windows OS... so there must be something good, there, right ?

Posted by ger | April 1, 2009 5:16 PM
Triplets :

@ ger
Agree 100% percent!
Windows users never spent more than 30 minutes on a Mac, but they know everything about them, right?
The ones that spend months on them end up ditching Windows.
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I've been in the computing industry for a decade or so. My first computer was an Apple IIE. I love computing of all types. My problem with todays Mac's (yes I even have one, hell I have about 20 computers or so) is that they are over priced and on a cost to cost comparison they they suck really bad. I can literally build a system 2 to 3 times as powerful if I build it myself and throw either linux or windows on it. Not only is the system built with better and higher quality parts, but I can do anything on them. This is not true with the mac's. Mac's are a pain with SDK and software support, windows and linux are not. Mac's suck at games (hey I love games, gotta have them, sorry). Mac's also try to DRM my media, sorry but this isn't cool. Also the Mac OS is clunky and YOU CAN NOT BUY THE LATEST HARDWARE FOR A MAC! That is all facts. PC's can do things that Mac's cannot. Everything that can be done on a mac can also be done on a PC (except looking like a douche and a dumbass for buying an overpriced piece of shit). I never take the Mac I own with me anywhere and rarely turn it on, because it really has no use and I feel ashamed for buying it a few years ago.

@Ger

Also are you trying to tell me that OSX never borrowed anything from windows or Linux? (please say yes, please say yes)

/waits_impatiently

If you are a MAC user, read the following, memorize it FOR THE LOVE OF GOD....

Mikeythekat :

Mac's are simply over priced crap. I have personally built a ASUS laptop with a AMD processor running OSX that spanks the living day lights out of the Mac books and the Asus laptop cost less that $700. Why would I want to spend an extra $1300 to have a "Mac"? Oh thats right, people want Mac's because they are trendy looking and want other people to see it and say "wow, that guy/girl is cool because they can afford a Mac" Thats just lame. Get this, I took my Asus laptop to Starbucks after I built it and sat down amongst the Mac users and turned my laptop on intentionally at the same time as one of the new Mac books the other guys had and you should have seen their mouths drop open and their jaws hit the floor when a non Mac computer for one, was loading OSX and 2, loaded OSX a good 30-45 seconds faster. I was asked how I got OSX on a non mac computer and just had to say that I'm smarter than the average mac yuppie.

It all comes down to Macs are a stupid status symbol and the feeling of being better than someone else because you have a mac. Just the same way people that drive BMW's feel when they see someone driving a old Honda accord.

People need to get off their high horses and think about what they are buying and buy something because its worth it, not becuase of how "cool" you will look with it.

Mac users are lame and are only good for kicking.

Be smart and buy a PC, besides, with a PC you actually have a selection when it comes to software! Imagine that, if Mac's are so great, why is there literally 1/2 a shelf of Mac software to buy?

straight from http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net

Ever notice how most Mac users are skinny? It's because of all the calories they burn because they can't shut the fuck up about how great their Macs are. What is it about Apple that makes its users unable to shut their mouths? Everywhere I go, there's another asshole with a Mac preaching about how much better Macs are than PCs. They regurgitate lines directly from Apple's marketing campaign, like "it just works." I have the following rebuttals to this argument:

1. If everything on a Mac just works, then why does a website called "Mac fix it" exist, assholes? Here are a few choice topics on macfixitforums.com:

-Login window stuck!
-lower caSe "S" key not working!!
-Menu bar keeps flashing
-I can't drag and drop!

Waaaah, boo hoo! I can't drag and drop! Dumbass. Looks like your Macs aren't perfect after all, which leads me to my second point:

2. Fuck you.

I don't know why Mac users get so defensive when you call them idiots. I mean, Apple is a company that has built its entire user base around the fact that its users can't do simple things like turn their computers on. Hell, most Mac users can't even talk without using their hands, which ranks their intelligence somewhere between a simian and hog shit.

Wow, Rer. You need to take a chill pill. Have Windows viruses and malware and dll nightmares driven you up the wall?
You think you're so cool by calling everyone assholes, dumbasses and STFU, that makes you very believable and that means you're also very smart and intelligent of course.
You're the typical troll that thinks his experience is the overall truth and every Mac user is an idiot.

Rer:

What can I say - you are without a doubt the most obnoxious, ignorant, foul mouthed fool I have ever come across.

You know, if you hate that Macbook Pro so much why don't you sell it instead of whining about being embarrassed of owning it? Oh,that must be the one that caught on fire-too bad. Maybe you don't even have a Mac and are so angry at those who do because you can't afford one of your own?

If you do truly own a Macbook Pro, why did you buy it in the first place? I mean a man of your computer skills that can build a machine with better components 2-3 times faster for less money would surely be smart enough not to purchase a Mac in the first place right? Then again maybe you thought it would help you get a girlfriend if you hung out Starbucks with a shiny new Mac and now you are bitterly angry because it didn't work out as planned. Maybe moving out of mom & dad's basement would help with your social life.

Almost everything you posted was your worthless opinion. YOU my friend are the one who should be bringing facts you big dope!

@rer:
marketshare.hitslink.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9&qpdt=1&qpct=4&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=99&qpnp=25

Statistics of the use of operating systems. Windows is now at an all-time low, whereas Apple increased 50% over the past 2 years.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Xpvistaleopardchangewave.png

Speaks for itself, right ? OSX is appreciated a lotvmore...

And what can you not do on an Apple, except gaming ? And what did the Apple GUI copy from the Windows one ? I know they took something from Linux, but this is not surprising because Apple is using a lot of similar open source UNIX based programming.

I have the above mentioned 17 inch multimedia HP Pavilion and it is now dead in the sense that the graphics board has burnt out and the motherboard needs to be replaced. This is the second time this has happened in less then two years. The first time, the motherboard died after 11 months. (under warantee) And now after having had the second mother board substituted, it has burnt again. So, the average life span of the mother board has been eleven months. This is not to say that HP will not repair my computer, however I have now spent several months without a computer while it is being repaired owing to poor engineering. Even if they again substitue the mother board again, it will probably not last more than a year before burning out again. I am writing this note with a ten-year old Toshiba Satellite which has never given me problems.

Purchase price is only one part of the equation. I don't favor either system, but has anyone done hard analysis on how much staff productivity downtime you get with PCs vs. Macs?

If I've got hundreds of people I'm paying $20 or $30 or $40 an hour, every minute their computers are down is money wasted. So
It seems like for a business, the frustration and time wasted fighting with Microsoft's terrible software would overwhelm the lower up-front cost.

But again, I have never seen any hard data.

Purchase price is only one part of the equation. I don't favor either system, but has anyone done hard analysis on how much staff productivity downtime you get with PCs vs. Macs?

If I've got hundreds of people I'm paying $20 or $30 or $40 an hour, every minute their computers are down is money wasted. So
It seems like for a business, the frustration and time wasted fighting with Microsoft's terrible software would overwhelm the lower up-front cost.

But again, I have never seen any hard data.

Hang on there bud; on what distant planet is a 2GHz 'Penryn' Core 2 Duo as found in the Macbook, "slower" than a 2.1 AMD Turion X2 found in Lauren's HP? And here we thought the megahertz myth was dead and buried.

Drugal :

Rer:

What can I say - you are without a doubt the most obnoxious, ignorant, foul mouthed fool I have ever come across.

You know, if you hate that Macbook Pro so much why don't you sell it instead of whining about being embarrassed of owning it? Oh,that must be the one that caught on fire-too bad. Maybe you don't even have a Mac and are so angry at those who do because you can't afford one of your own?

If you do truly own a Macbook Pro, why did you buy it in the first place? I mean a man of your computer skills that can build a machine with better components 2-3 times faster for less money would surely be smart enough not to purchase a Mac in the first place right? Then again maybe you thought it would help you get a girlfriend if you hung out Starbucks with a shiny new Mac and now you are bitterly angry because it didn't work out as planned. Maybe moving out of mom & dad's basement would help with your social life.

Almost everything you posted was your worthless opinion. YOU my friend are the one who should be bringing facts you big dope!
-------------------------------
I did bring facts, try scrolling up. Also those haven't been refuted because they are true. The comment about the macbook fire was called sarcasm which is obviously a concept beyond your feeble mental capacity.

Actually I don't live in my parents basement, I'm a disable war veteran and proud owner of my own successful business of 2 years since getting hurt in the war 2 years ago.

I posted facts and common PC knowledge. If you have a problem with windows I really don't care because I use many different OS's. My problem is with people who praise mac's. Mac's would be beneficial if the price was right, but the price isn't right. anything done on a Mac can be done on other systems faster and for less money. So face the fact that you bought a Mac because you're a douche, which is the common conception of the Mac user internationally and it is well earned.

I have the Mac book because I picked it up at 5% cost at a university auction.

Triplets :

Wow, Rer. You need to take a chill pill. Have Windows viruses and malware and dll nightmares driven you up the wall?
You think you're so cool by calling everyone assholes, dumbasses and STFU, that makes you very believable and that means you're also very smart and intelligent of course.
You're the typical troll that thinks his experience is the overall truth and every Mac user is an idiot.
------------------------------------
1.- I'm posting this from a linux box. Your assumption that I'm getting some kind of DLL error is testament to the fact that you have a reading comprehension problem.

2.- I'm calling you dumb asses because the Mac community tends to be filled with idiots who know very little about computing, not all, just most.

3.- Technically the Mac fanboi's are the trolls for coming to "www.microsoft-watch.com" and posting shit. You sir are the the troll.

4.- You've been owned again, so I recommend that you stop posting to save yourself further embarrassment.

Rer:

Back again I see, insulting people for no apparent reason.

So the Macbook never caught on fire? You mean it was sarcasm? Gosh, I thought the pearls of wisdom you placed at our feet were all about facts?

Most people who come to this site are interested in technology, operating systems, and computers and post their opinions cordially and intelligently. In short most posters / readers here act like adults and display the kind of sophmoric rantings you post.

When you can act like a grown-up come on back and participate, until then take a seat at the kids table and have a juice box ( I suggest apple flavor ).

Drugal:

Shouldn't you be in a Starbucks somewhere sexually harassing a metro sexual?

You're just upset because someone called you out, admit it.

I have gotten tired of those who have no idea how to use a computer spouting off that there Mac is better then a PC (Windows or Linux). Also if you want to brag about how much better your Mac is then My PC, learn to use a computer first with out the assistance of tool tips an all that stuff programmed in for the beginners. I mean be able to sit down at a command prompt and know what your doing.

I don't know which I dislike more — macs, or mac users. Its hard to decide between the two.

I agree with Rer, STFU about your POS Mac already.

Mac owners remind me of Scientologists. Thats not a good thing.

Been using computers since late 80s, starting with DOS, then Windows and finally, Mac. Like I said, most Mac users have a Windows background. They know exactly waht they do not like about Windows. Most Windows users do not have a Mac background. They do not know what they don't like about Macs. They just don't like others pointing out that they are being taken advantage of - by Microsoft, that is selling them expensive software that works unlogical and kills time most effectively. One almost has to be an IT specialist to operate safely a standard Windows PC. Windows and Microsoft gave the PC a bad name as being difficult and untrustworthy. Too bad Apple was fucking up between 87-98 - they could have owned that market. Meaning more userfriendly software and more happy users.

@rer: where is your reply ? I'd like to know what was stolen from windows by OSX.

Rer:

The only one who has been called out here is you, your just not bright enough to realize it.

I and most Mac users I know have spent many more years with windows than with OSX and have come away feeling that Apple has created a superior OS. You may not like that, and I could care less. If you like Windows then use it - I'll stick to Linux and OSX until Microsoft can show me something better.

Frankly, it's pathetic you feel the need to make insults to try and cover the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. To make it worse you fabricate a story about your mythical "Macbook" you bought on sale for 5% of value catching on fire.

There is a word for people like you - delusional. Seriously get some help for that.

Lets put it this way you still have to run windows on a mac in bootcap to run programs like AutoCAD, Microstation, office 2007 or the one for mac made by microsoft my point is that apple been bad mouthing Micro soft but still need them on the downlow.

As a mac user, one thing I'd like to point out is that I think my system will last longer than my previous PC's. In a six year span I used up 2 PCs that ran a total of $1800 (1 monitor, 2 towers). Between switching operating systems, 98, ME, XP etc. viruses and just running out of steam I was up for a new computer. I recycled them, and got 30 bucks for the monitor. I am into my 3rd year with my 24" intel imac ($1500 on Craigslist, now retail at $1500) and I am nowhere NEAR needing a new machine. When osx went to leopard, I dished out $110 versus $300 for Vista. By the time I'm done with this machine, I'm guessing I'll still be able to get $400 out of it. I figure once all is said and done I'll have saved cash.

If you prefer building your own personal computers, of course you can always out-trump anything on the market, be it Mac or PC. But its like saying "why buy such a product when i can build one?"

Not everyone wants to build their own consumer products, let alone their own computers.

Most want to buy off the shelf, and if you're buying off the shelf, Macs, Dells, Sonys, and HPs generally have better components, better quality and longevity, I say Generally, as is the case with most consumer products.

What Mac has compared to the Sony, HP and Dell is a more focused design and engineering. They design and maintain the whole product, not bits and pieces. So they log more R&D, testing and quality checks for the whole poduct. Sony sells all kinds of products, HP sells printers and Dell just sells, so their focus is elsewhere

Mac designs PCs and sorrounds it with products to enhance its performace and use. That's the only thing they do, that's what they're good at, and it counts for a whole lot. If you look at it from and engineering stand point, from aesthetics, a well as usuability and elegance, it's a whole lot product.

It's not just about the spec numbers, techie or not. So you may boot up your OS X faster on your self-built PC, but that does't make it necesarily better.

Personally I think anyone willing to spend the extra money to get a Mac instead is a complete idiot. For $2800 I can buy a PC-based laptop with a quad core processor and a GeForce GTX 280M, which will run circles around that petty Core2Duo and 9600M.

A Mac is not a Mercedes, Ferrari, or whatever other ham-handed car analogy you make it out to be. Hardware-wise, Macs are generations behind the curve. Software-wise, there couldn't be more of a lack of options and customization.

People buy Macs out of some misguided faith in Apple's quality control, as if learning the finer points about working a computer should be left up to the "geeks." But while you're ogling those gimmicky light-up logos, those Apple geeks aren't afraid to take advantage of your illiteracy, and the product pricing proves it. No fancy logo is ever worth a 300% price markup.

Rer points out all the crap that Mac users try to ignore. MS was genius to bring up price point in their newest Commercials.

If they just went "real" with the commercial and actually dished out the numbers and specs side by side with similar setups it would be the end of it but I think the "nerd-spec overload" might be too much for people that aren't that familiar with the parts.

I hadn't been to the Mac sight in a long time (since I DL'd a copy of iTunes direct) but a recent argument about Mac pricing came up so I decided to price them out. Sweet Raptor Jesus, what the f|_|ck are people smoking when they buy a Mac?! You have to really be born and raised in that OS to want to spend $800 or more for less computing power compared to a PC.

Granted the design and implementation of the components is a nice touch but at the end of the day I'll pick brawn over beauty in my computer every time. A sweet all-aluminum chassis doesn't do sh!!t for my core clock speed, now does it?

and the "car analogies" have got to stop. It must be a canned-answer in the Mac world because my argument with a Mac user immediately went to this. He said right away, "you can buy a Ford Focus that has four wheels and drives just like a Porsche but you would rather have the Porsche". You're damn right I would (unless it's a Boxter :P) because the Porsche (any Porsche) is designed for higher performance and you get what you pay for in terms of quality of components....the Porsche will accelerate faster, corner more sharply, and simply outperform that cheap little Focus. That makes sense but trying to compare a Mac to a Porsche does not.

The Mac may be pretty with it's aluminum cut "this" and light up "that" but a 2.66GHz Intel quad core is a G**D*** 2.66GHz Intel Quad core that, were I to buy that mac, cost me more money than a PC that would probably have a 3.0GHz quad core processor and take less of my hard earned money.

To every single person who posted on here: You are all idiots. I disagree with each and every one of you. Everything you say is stupid and Lauren is a whore.