Wow, that list of reasons is terrible. So what if iTunes uses WebKit to render its content? That has nothing to do with one using Safari to surf the web.

Please list these hidden synchronization benefits. Bookmark synchronization was supported under the beta and it's supported under Internet Explorer...

I love the "obvious iPhone SDK benefits with Safari on the computer" claim. Obviously, you're an idiot and have no idea what you're talking about. The iPhone SDK has nothing to do with Safari on Windows. You have to have a Mac to develop with it. Granted you can render HTML using WebKit on the iPhone but we've had that since its introduction.

And in regard to the enterprise "problem," you should do a little more research. For those that use Active Directory and Integrated Authentication (or whatever it's called) for their corporate intranets, they have to continue to use IE because that's not supported in Safari.

What's more is a diverse browser portfolio makes attacking harder because you have to guess what the user is running All the browsers have had a number of security issues (IE by far had the most) so your scenario of Safari leading to mass security compromises is pretty special considering IE has done that a number of times. So assuming it's as insecure as you like to make it out to be, what's the difference?

Little Joe,

I love your insinuation that "little Safari" could be a "rogue browser"!

This behavior isn't new for Apple. Ever since they introduced "Apple Software Update" on Windows with Quicktime installs, the program will repeatedly prompt you to install iTunes. While Quicktime is required for iTunes, iTunes is not required for Quicktime to function.

PS: Westgate, Joe was referring to the *first* iPhone SDK, which was "make web apps to use in Safari". This was the SDK that was introduced last June in MacWorld, which was widely panned by every developer who didn't want to make "web apps". For that SDK, yes Apple suggested that Safari for Windows was the development platform.

You can select "Never" in the update preferences to not have it check...
You can also select a specific item and say "Ignore" and then you will never be prompted to install it.
Windows Update also presents options of things to install that you may have not had a previous version of before. For example, malicious software Tool, .net, etc.

I had downloaded the Safari beta from last year on my Vista x64 system, but used it only a few times. It rendered pages like Live Spaces badly, hopefully that has been improved.

This should be a joy to my friend who owns a MacBook Pro with BootCamp, she often needs to use Windows at school since she is doing accounting and uses programs like Microsoft Access. So, Safari for Windows, iTunes for Windows should make her feel more at home on the Windows side when she is at class.

This is old behaviour from Apple. Install Quicktime, and you get iTunes and also a bunch of iPod services that run every time you boot up Windows, regardless of whether you have ever installed an iPod or not. Getting rid of them is like malware surgery.

Apple media software is notorious for taking over as default player for all media types on your PC *without asking*. If you reset to your preferences, then it simply grabs them back the next time Quicktime or iTunes is loaded.

"There are hidden PC-to-iPhone and iPod Touch synchronization benefits "

Safari bookmarks can sync to the iPhone and iPod touch. It worked flawlessly for me on Windows XP before I upgraded to my iMac. There's nothing "hidden" about it.

Microsoft didn't ship Windows XP with its WGA spyware, yet the Windows software update not only offers to install it, but falsely calls it a security update.

The difference is that while Apple suggests users try its software, it doesn't lie about it as Microsoft does.

IT can remove the update software when setting up their computers should they need iTunes, Quicktime, and Safari. They should be able to maintain the software distributed in their firm. Should Apple's software come under security threats they'll suffer at a time when corporations can afford to banish them.

I would expect that security will be a very high priority at Apple during this time. Microsoft was fortunate that the threat didn't arise prior to their being in a position that forestalled the ability of companies to abandon them.

With Apple introducing a software sales structure (iApps Store) much like iTunes for music, this could be an entre to Apple selling (and hosting and updating and running credit charges) 3rd party Windows Apps.

Mike :
Umm you can download quicktime without downloading iTunes.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/

How hard was that.

Mike: Quicktime and iTunes don't set themselves to default player without asking and haven't done so for a long time. It's right there in the dialog box for you to check or uncheck when you install.

Apple Software Update is also unobtrusive. It waits in the background until you go to it. Unlike most other software that comes with prompts, it doesn't pop up in the middle of your activity. If only other software developers could learn to program like this.

LOL. If MSFT had done this your post would have been titled "MSFT Abusing Its Monopoly". When Apple uses its Ipod monopoly to do it, it "is wisely leveraging its limited resources". Apple's updater imo is malware. Every time you turn around, it's trying to jam Quicktime or now Safari onto your machine. Ridiculous.

Yup, they're taking over the Windows desktop with an open source browser they co-opted. Quicktime and iTunes are already so awesome that I'm going to be buying a Mac any day. ROFL.

Hey Nada,
QuickTime and iTunes ARE awesome. And you already are using a Mac. Just an imperfect copy.

This is awful.

This is not even close to baked in Windows Updates. It is as bad, and perhaps worse than Google peppering the planet with their toolbars and desktop software and baking that garbage into everything from the JRE to Adobe FLASH.

And... even when one does elect to DL and install QT only, an iTunes helper services pumps itself into every aspect of a Windows install - even inside of Outlook for goodness sake.

I regard all of it as mal-ware and there is no equivalency alongside benign security updates to the OS.

Check under Joe's bed for a pod - he's been invaded by an idiot.

@ Little Joe,

"insinuation that "little Safari" could be a "rogue browser""

Joe's correct as the situation relates to a business operation having an employee prodded to download a different browser.

Where do YOU work, small fry? Businesses that are responsible to governance and understand the types of threats operations face via internet intrusion must be sober and deliberate when mapping their IT strategies. YOU, on the other hand, have demonstrated you haven't a clue above being a gamer and perhaps a hack developer.

Apple is courting a disastrous reputation among business decision makers by treating the intranet like the internet.

Granted SaaS and web applications and services will dominate one day, but, today is a conservative mindset in corporate IT and everyone is waiting for the other guy to make the BIG mistake.

And being able to entice an employee to import a non-authorized portal device to access extranet information and executive bones.

Then your little nuglets are broiled over a slow audit flame.

Stick to the kiddee farm, Apple Dumpling. If you're typical of Jobs' activists, Microsoft's IT platform position in the business site is not going to be threatened.

Pride goeth before the fall and Steve Jobs is stepping on his.

Far better than Microsoft's own product bundling and preventing OEM's to bundle Firefox with Vista.

Why the hell someone needs IE? I recently tested out IE8 and I should tell this... It's a whole piece of S***. Why isn't Dell or HP bundling Firefox with the default Windows Installation. Why aren't they removing M$ Works from their crap software list? Because M$ reduces Windows cost if they bundle this. This is a clear anti-trust violation brought up by Novell but M$ again sued them as Linux infriged some patents and made Novell quiet.
Compared to all of these, I don't say Apple's strategy is wrong...

JS, Mark: The unbundling of QT/iTunes is a recent change, but the unasked-for installation of iPod services still continues.

Mugunth: And who do the OEMs turn to for support for Firefox? They can barely support the zoo of crapware they choose to bundle today. I'm not knocking Firefox but it's not a model of performance even compared to IE.

Apple strengthens its position in PC market in February

http://www.betanews.com/article/Apple_strengthens_its_position_in_PC_market_in_February/1205858658

Quotes; "Data from NPD Group indicates that Macs accounted for about one out of every eight computers sold during the month of February in the US.

Apple garnered a 14 percent unit share during the month, a 60 percent year-over-year increase. Apple also took a quarter of all dollar revenues during February, NPD says. This higher percentage of dollar sales is due to Apple's generally higher prices than its competitors.

Revenue for Apple jumped 67 percent over last year. This increase is dramatically higher than the industry as a whole, which saw a nine percent increase in unit sales and a five percent increase in revenues from February 2007."

hmmm, interesting

If Microsoft did the same thing as Apple, the press would been screaming and winning about Microsoft's monopolistic tactics, about 50 law suits would have been fired by now, about 3000 articles would have been written all over the press blaiming Microsoft for just about anything you can think of. BUT it's Apple and of cource Apple gets a free ride. . Same goes for Google. Joe, you characterized what apple did as atypical "atypical"? This is a Trojan horse. Nothing Less. How would you characterize if the same behavior was exhibited by Microsoft?

Ah, Danel Eran Dilger is here to trot out two year old accusations that are no longer accurate, because he can't cotton to anybody criticizing his beloved Apple, no matter how deserving Apple is for it. Oh, Daniel, could you explain to use again why Apple's patent for an iPhone WGA is absolutely unlike Windows' WGA and is in fact in everybody's best interets? Thanks.

Well, at least Apple gets its software out the door in a reasonable time, and for the most part its customers are a happy lot. The same can't be said for the other guys, even if they do a better job of catering to the MCSE crowd.

Considering the number of times pro-fesh-uh-null IT types have been burned by Windows malware, I guess we shouldn't be too surprised if some are spooked by this Safari push-update.

iTunes doesn't use Safari or its rendering engine WebKit in any way, never has.
The iTunes Store doesn't consist of webpages in disguise. It's a custom thing.

Donald, you're slow. Daniel Eran Dilger's already covered it.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/22/the-new-apple-patent-wga-evil-or-iphone-knievel/

i've never installed Silverlight, yet i'm offered it in Microsoft Update...

JS, Mark: The unbundling of QT/iTunes is a recent change, but the unasked-for installation of iPod services still continues.

Not a recent change at all! you could always get separate quicktime!
You just have to take qt with iTunes, but may uninstall it afterwards.

If you don't like the apple software service, don't install it as its an option component.
I love apple software, but would never install such an intrusive piece.

The “enterprise” scenario is a red herring.

Well, it is unless your enterprise routinely bestows administrative privileges upon all of its users.

What exactly are you referring to with your comment?

"There are hidden PC-to-iPhone and iPod Touch synchronization benefits and obvious iPhone SDK benefits with Safari on the computer."

And what is the source for this?

Amazing posters actually defend a company like Microsoft still.
Laughable. Poor MS, they're like the charlie Brown of software...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!!
Why's everyone always picking on me?

At first, I thought I clicked on the wrong blog. It seemed at first glance that Joe's missive was definitely an Apple Watch blog entry, and not a Microsoft Watch entry.

But then I noticed the usual mix of strong opinions, insults, and stumbled upon the colorful drivel such as "Then your little nuglets are broiled over a slow audit flame" that sure sounds pretty but doesn't make a lick of sense.

It was then that I realized I was looking at the right blog after all.

DCSOS wrote: If you don't like the apple software service, don't install it as its an option component.

Really, I just installed Quicktime and unchecked the box to install the Apple Updater...AND it installed it aayway. At least it shows up in "Add/Remove Programs" Shame on Apple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can confirm that even if you choose NOT to install the Apple Updater, it installs anyway. Secondly, recent versions of iTunes install and run a total of 4 services which I DON'T need as they are related to iPod's. I don't have an iPod, so why should these services run on my PC? And forget about terminating them, they will start up again immediately. Completely disabling the services won't do you anything good either, as they will be there again the next time you start up your computer again.
I had already given iTunes the boot a long time ago. But there's some nice podcast in it, so I gave it another chance recently. Needless to say that has been the last time ever.
It's amazing how much Apple fanboys will defend Apple no matter what. It can only be wrong when MS does it. When Apple does it, it's "different" or "innovative" or not comparible to MS, or...this is the best one..."you're in a Windows mindset so you don't understand..." Give me a break.

spyware pure and simple. i specifically said i wanted no contact on software offered by apple or any of its associates. yet despite my explicit instructions, to the contrary, apple have seen fit to invade my computer, checked what software i have, and try to peddle more dross software to me. quite apart from making low quality electronic equipment and software, they now seem to think they have the right to do what they want. time the low life thefts that run company's like this, were reminded that the law applies to them too. i do have an 30gb video ipod. it is one of the worst MP3 players i have ever had, and the fact the battery is "none user interchangeable" indicates just how they view the people foolish enough to buy their product. still with a good kick it jams nicely under my living room door, so i guess it has some uses. still £200 for a door stop is a bit steep.

Yeah yeah it's "spyware pure and simple". So what? You're gonna sue Apple? So go, sue them. You'll just end up being a total loser.

I don't care if it's a "Trojan horse" or what, I'll just uncheck the checkbox and set Software Updater to ignore Safari and stop whining if I were any of you who said something about "spyware" or "Trojan" blah blah. I've installed it anyway though. I'm on a Mac with Tiger, not Windows.

Apple has made it a little less pleasant and unsafe to use Windows. A drop in an ocean of troubles, to be sure, but still another drop you have to deal with.

IF you're using Windows.

The smart thing is not to use Windows at all. Sadly, that isn't possible for everybody.

I do love Safari. I run Linux and the only PC I have runs good ol trusty Win2K (I'm thinking of upgrading -- to XP of course). So I was quite shocked when Apple Update told me I could download Safari -- the website says its XP/Vista only. It downloaded and installed without a hitch, but when I launched it I got a big fat "Safari.exe has generated errors and needs to shut down" dialog box. You think they could only give you new software notifications that are actually COMPATIBLE with your system.

On March 18 at 9:30 PM, jones wrote, "Apple Software Update is also unobtrusive. It waits in the background until you go to it. Unlike most other software that comes with prompts, it doesn't pop up in the middle of your activity."

On my Windows XP PC, it *has* popped up on its own. Not very often, but it has.

All I want are iTunes updates so I can listen to music and audiobooks. Apple already forces QuickTime onto my computer and absolutely won't let me run iTunes without it. Furthermore with every software update (which occur way too often), Apple decides that QuickTime (which I NEVER use) and iTunes (which I launch once in a while) MUST be RE-installed into both my QuickLaunch and my Desktop without my consent. Respectable software (much less software updates) don't much such presumptions.

Now these folks at Apple take it to a new level of sleaziness. They try to catch me not paying close attention once during a software UPDATE to try install a completely unrelated application -- Safari (negative option installation). I only want my damn iTunes UPDATEd so malware is a good word for this practice. I don't want QuickTime and especially don't want Safari installed on my computer if I forget to opt out once.

You won't find me cheering Microsoft but even Microsoft leaves unrelated optional software unchecked by default during updates. Also, Microsoft updates don't repeatedly drop undesired shortcuts into my QuickLaunch or Desktop the way Apple does.

Whoever said "Microsoft has silverlight in updates but doesn't have it installed.." what's your point? It's windows OS correct? And it's unchecked by default!

I like Apples products, and hope they will allow Pc's to use Mac OSX but I dislike their style. They are more monopolistic than Microsoft, yet they take all the beef and Apple walks away. Apple sitting side by side to Microsoft, Windows seems a lot more "free" in more ways than one.

Would it not be wonderful if all the major software manufactures got together and combined the best of all their software had to offer, and roll it up in one OS?

and as of today, now there's a security update that must be installed...

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/safari311.html

Shouldn't pose much of a problem ... after all, I've never heard of Macs in Enterprise before. :)