I notice that in the image you have of the "Capable" sticker there's not an asterisk next to it and fine print below it explaining that the computer is only capable of the most basic version of Vista, and that you won't be able to have all the cool 3D graphics like you see on the TV ads.

If one was to take the same logic that Microft is being challenged with by this lawsuit, to the TV manufacturers then how confusing is HDTV ready and HDTV capable, shouldn't these companies be sued to ?

If one was to take the same logic that Microsoft is being challenged with by this lawsuit, to the TV manufacturers then how confusing is HDTV ready and HDTV capable, shouldn't these companies be sued to ?

I think your right about the HDTV ready and HDTV capable let alone if its 1080i or 1080p. With technology today its confusing to the buyer on what they are getting and what is "the best". When the average consumer is buying a new computer they should do some research and see that Vista Capable might mean only the home edition and not the elite Ultimate edition.

As for Microsoft Marketing department, can you be any more confusing with all the different versions of Vista! My philosophy in building or selling any product is stick it in 3 categories, maybe Microsoft will think about this the next time they plan to release a Operating System. Hopefully they will not continue on this path and I will have 20 or more Operating Systems to choose from.

"Sorry, but most people do live under rocks."

Joe, you do profess to be a journalist right? If so, what's your support for this blanket statement above - or is it just your opinion? Also, if you were going to use part of my response as the basis for your post, why didn't you have the courage to address the rest and specifically the examples of less than complete technology explanations that I cited (several of which are appropriate and many, many more could be listed). Or is your perspective that MSFT alone should be held to a level of full disclosure that others are not?

I am a strong believer that the consumer has a certain obligation to do their homework before making a purchasing decision. Some have decided they wanted to upgrade to Exchange 2007, only to discover they had to have a 64 bit OS after their purchase. Same thing with Windows Vista customers who didn't check the specs that the reseller or Microsoft offer. Thankfully, reasonable people reasonably realize it was their own mistake. Reasonable resellers and Manufacturers are then more than happy to see what they can do to help.

Hey Joe another great post of yours (cough...cough)
Not only "pinching" comments but putting in video's that DON"T WORK !!!!!
And I quote "This video is no longer available" !
Great one Joe !

Donald Irvine wrote: "If one was to take the same logic that Microsoft is being challenged with by this lawsuit, to the TV manufacturers then how confusing is HDTV ready and HDTV capable, shouldn't these companies be sued to?"

I wouldn't say they should be sued, Donald, but there has been at least one HDTV lawsuit.

Paul wrote: "Is your perspective that MSFT alone should be held to a level of full disclosure that others are not?"

This post started as a response to your second comment to the previous post, Paul. I think you're seeing intention that doesn't exist. This post isn't about full disclosure anything. It's about good marketing practices and the difficulties Microsoft faced making them because of the Vista delay. I don't see that Microsoft sought to deceive anyone, as the lawsuit alleges. Vista Capable was too far along to pull it. But going forward meant there wasn't the necessary marketing air cover.

As for the other examples put forth in your other comment, I don't see that they relate to Vista. Through previous product marketing Microsoft established certain expectations and then changed the rules, so to speak. From DOS through Windows XP, different flavors of the same product typically ran on the same hardware. Same applies to Office. XP Home and Pro could run on the same hardware. Microsoft did differentiate Media Center and Tablet PC, which did require different hardware. But Microsoft marketing made clear differences and average consumers couldn't buy the software without hardware.

Your comment reads to me like you're assuming I'm making a value judgment. Hardly. This is about good business practice. Microsoft is in a difficult position because it's finally met a worthy competitor: itself. For many people, Windows XP is going to be good enough. If Microsoft wants those Vista upgrades, it has to deliver an appealing product and make the benefits crystal clear. By increasing complexity, such as through the logo programs or number of Vista versions, Microsoft risks making the new product less appealing than the older one.

Vista will succeed simply because there is so much economic infrastructure built around it. But it's in the best interests of Microsoft and all its partners that Vista succeed sooner.

Joe

Sorry all you smug IT types, but most consumer's _do_ live under rocks when it comes to buying PCs. Microsoft's marketing department crafted a rollout plan that is so poorly conceived and managed the majority of consumers could easily take the "Vista Capable" sticker literally.

What we have here is a failure to communicate, and lawyers will make a lot of money from this screw-up. Since Ballmer took the helm Microsoft has demonstrated very little competence. He's in way over his head as this (among others) debacle clearly demonstrates. IMO it's time for the board to clean house and bring in someone capable to run the show.

Tried to get additional vista upgrade keys for my other two home computers. They advertise a discount for up to two more unit then you get a error message saying that "No Offer Found" What a bunch of crap. I was warned not to upgrade. Should have listened

I notice that you change the video Joe ... now it works !
It no longer goes to "You Tube" !!

Joe, I find it very difficult to find merit in this lawsuit over marketing.

People today feel they can sue anyone at any time for anything- remember the �hot� coffee incident�
Vista capable- how about, �New XXXX car for sale- $14,000� or zero percent financing� ever read that fine print? Should I be able to sue because it isn�t true?

Vista Capable is just that- Vista Capable.

1. doing something well: good at a particular task or job or at a number of different things
a very capable hotel manager
2. able to do particular thing: possessing the qualities needed to do a particular thing

So, as you stated- it can run a lesser version of Vista. But how about putting the blame on the uneducated person at the computer store telling the person to buy it? Aren�t they more to blame here?

Minimum requirements should be read carefully. If you ever buy any software you should read the minimum requirements. Ever try to return a game to Best Buy because it won�t run smoothly on your PC? They�ll laugh you right out of the store. Should I sue the EA or Blizzard because my PC wasn�t up to par? Or should I sure Best Buy for selling me it? Or maybe I should sue Microsoft just because�

People need to be responsible for their own actions these days, stop relying on everyone else for everything. Read the box carefully- maybe do some research. I am sure that lady researched her car before she bought it, maybe on that thing called the Internet- I know it is still around. I bet she even researched her new mortgage rate online, as well as her banking, etc� but she couldn�t go online and read what a minimum requirement was?

Stop the insanity, Joe-

Joe, I find it very difficult to find merit in this lawsuit over marketing.

People today feel they can sue anyone at any time for anything- remember the "hot" coffee incident-
Vista capable- how about, New XXXX car for sale- $14,000... or zero percent financing... ever read that fine print? Should I be able to sue because it isn�t true?

Vista Capable is just that- Vista Capable.

1. doing something well: good at a particular task or job or at a number of different things
a very capable hotel manager
2. able to do particular thing: possessing the qualities needed to do a particular thing

So, as you stated- it can run a lesser version of Vista. But how about putting the blame on the uneducated person at the computer store telling the person to buy it? Aren't they more to blame here?

Minimum requirements should be read carefully. If you ever buy any software you should read the minimum requirements. Ever try to return a game to Best Buy because it won't run smoothly on your PC? They'll laugh you right out of the store. Should I sue the EA or Blizzard because my PC wasn't up to par? Or should I sure Best Buy for selling me it? Or maybe I should sue Microsoft just because...

People need to be responsible for their own actions these days, stop relying on everyone else for everything. Read the box carefully- maybe do some research. I am sure that lady researched her car before she bought it, maybe on that thing called the Internet- I know it is still around. I bet she even researched her new mortgage rate online, as well as her banking, etc... but she couldn't go online and read what a minimum requirement was?

Stop the insanity, Joe-

"People need to be responsible for their own actions these days, stop relying on everyone else for everything. Read the box carefully- maybe do some research. I am sure that lady researched her car before she bought it, maybe on that thing called the Internet- I know it is still around. I bet she even researched her new mortgage rate online, as well as her banking, etc... but she couldn't go online and read what a minimum requirement was?"

Scott, that's nonsense. I have some very intelligent friends (a family physician, a nuclear physicist, a corporate manager) who do research things carefully when it comes to buying a house, car, or whatever. BUT, when it comes to buying computers they come to me for advise because they are uncomfortable with computer technology. To these friends, "Vista Capable" means that they will get the full Vista experience that everyone is talking about.

What you don't seem to understand is that in our society, computer tech stands alone as an area of complexity that most people are *afraid* to tackle. You may complain about taking responsibility or relying on others for advice, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Scott, grow up.

Yes, the "Vista Ready" stickers sanctioned by the great and powerful Microsoft were a good marketing tactic. But good marketing does not excuse dishonesty.
Microsoft loudly touted all the benefits of "Vista", including its really cool Aero interface. Microsoft never once hinted that "Vista Ready" meant "Stripped-down Vista Ready". And you really can't use the public's lack of computer sophistication as a defense, especially since copies of Vista weren't widely available for comparison. And by that, I mean that there are very many households with only one PC that is needed for email and photos and such, and that one isn't available for destructive experimentation; it can't be wiped out with some Vista beta preload and then easily restored back to its former working condition. That is asking way too much of the 99.9% of the market over which Microsoft holds a monopoly.
Whether or not this was illegal or otherwise worthy of a lawsuit is another matter. I really don't know if a lawsuit is justified as I am not a lawyer. I do know that I've seen lawsuits whose merits baffle me far more.
And in Microsoft's defense, I must admit that nearly every PC owner owns something that is Vista Ready, even for the most capable version of Vista. It's called a trash can or a recycling bin, and it will hold even the most resource-hungry version of Vista that Microsoft will ever produce with more than enough room to spare. :-)

Not only did Microsoft correctly advertise "capable" they even had a link on their home page that took you to a very good Vista compatibility check for your current machine. Stop whining.

What I notice is it says just "Windows Vista Capable" on the logo. No link, or anything like "this computer will only run Vista Basic."

Guilty, next case.

Maybe instead of certifying machines as Vista capable, they should have certified them as Aero Capable, since, to the average consumer, the Aero 3d interface IS Vista.

Just my $0.02.

The "Anything you can do I can do better" music used in the referenced Gap ad would be a good foundation for a marketing campaign for Linux. :-)

A relative was recently buying a PC and wanted to know what the different versions of Vista were about. I picked up a many-paged booklet from Microsoft on the topic at my local computer store. The booklet made it painfully obvious that there is very little to make upselling higher versions an attractive proposition for Joe Consumer. The price tag to get the Ultimate edition, for example, especially after you factor in the additional hardware needed to run it, is startling. "So say I paid all that, what do I get for that money?" is still a question that lacks a compelling answer.

Prettying-up the screen is fine as a way to add sizzle to a new version of a desktop OS, but to tell the consumer that for $X more than can have a prettier-looking screen, selling that's an up-hill battle when X is big relative to the total price of the basic PC starting point.

And then there's the wide range of prices for the various flavors of MS-Office. Rah-rah Open-Office! "But if I'm not buying MS-Office 2007, why am I even bothering with Vista at all?" seems to be the right question to put into the consumer's mind.

Some people are missing the issue completely.

Right now, if you buy a PC from Dell, you're told in advance WHICH Vista(s) the computer supports. That's also true now if you shop online at a website vendor such as CircuitCity.com. But it was NOT the case before Vista launched and the free upgrade was offered. At that time, you were simply told that you got a free upgrade to Vista, but not WHICH Vista.

The Vista Capable sticker IS misleading solely due to the fact that it would not cost more than a few pennies to just add something like Vista PREMIUM Capable or Vista BASIC Capable.

The reason they didn't do it? They're in bed with PC manufacturers to make money. They want consumers to gravitate to the most expensive possible. It's a trouble spot they won't get out of quickly now, because the damage has already been done.

Then there are PCs that are monsters like my Dell 820 laptop which excels in everything BUT won't run Aero. Uh, why? It says my video card isn't supported. Yet it's listed as one of the cards that does support the Aero interface. Yeah, okay. And this isn't confusing to a laymen consumer? Whatever.

They deserve to be sued, and that sticker needs to be changed OR appended to clarify which Vista edition(s) are supported on each laptop. The PC manufacturers need to take that as incentive to only sell PCs that support at least Premium. Basic should be abolished as there's literally no point.

Richard, consumers should be responsible, this country has gotten to the point were we want everything handed to us and made easy as possible, then something goes wrong and it is our fault something goes wrong we try to lay blame elsewhere saying we are ignorant and uninformed

This is some moron of a lady not knowing what the heck she was doing or just wants some quick cash, all she had to do was return the freakin thing and be done with it

If all these versions of vista are so confusing why are people buying them when they dont know really what it does, be a smart person and read up on it, ask friends, ask store employees maybe? (altho I bet if one did help this lady, they hyped up the machine to get it out of the store, not MS's fault) its not a particularly small purchase either so why be a moron about it and just go willy nilly throwing money at something you arent sure of

Also MS makes SOFTWARE they didn't put the stickers on the computers it was the Manufacturers, who Im sure tested these things to see if they could run the minimum Vista as that qualifies it as CAPABLE

this lawsuit needs to get thrown out
if the lady didnt inform herself and just went for a shot in the dark its her own fault
theres tools, charts etc that would have made this easy to avoid, and if she really thought a low end PC was gonna run a "PREMIUM" or "ULTIMATE" OS then she should be hit in the head with a baseball bat

I think all we need is just simply two stickers.
1. Vista Basic Ready
2. Vista Prememium Ready (run all features well)

And they should "mean what they say" from computer
speed, DDR memory size, hard drive size and video card features, DVD writer etc.

I think all we need is just simply two stickers.
1. Vista Basic Ready
2. Vista Prememium Ready (run all features well)