“Performance hasn't degraded much after two months of use.”

Damning with faint praise, indeed. Looks like Dimdows Rot is STILL never far away...

I want to know how w7 works on older hardware - especially the products which were labeled "Visduh Ready" - or was that "Visduh Incapable"?. If w7 works well on those, then MS may just have a product which corporations and small businesses may consider using; otherwise businesses are likely to stick to XP and whine about the latest offering from MS.

There ya go Joe. Blasting IE8 while it's in BETA MODE. I'm using IE 8 RC1 on windows vista ultimate and it works great. Not as fast as Safari, but the tab management makes up for that for me at least.

Why even post an update to your experience when it's the same damn OS it was 2 months ago? Hows about getting your hands on the upcoming RC and "then" give us an update.

@Anymouse I'm using 7 on several machines with only one of them being "high powered". My laptop is a first gen duo core system with 1.5 gigs of memory. 7 runs fairly flawlessly... one or two bugs, but it is beta. I'm also running on a 1 ghz AMD chip with 1 gig of memory. No issues whatsoever, and it's snappy as hell. And just for the hell of it I installed it on an old POS compaq SFF business model with 512 megs of ram. And I'll be damned it's as snappy as windows XP was.

I've also have a friend whose using it on an Acer netbook with crap atom processor and 1 gig of memory. works fine. He's whining about having to revert it to xp at the end of the beta.

Now of course MS could pull a boner and hose up the final code... so who knows? The beta makes me hopeful. Of course Now that vista works pretty damn good for me I probably won't even bother with 7. Until I buy my own netbook that is.

IE8 has issues with compatibility mode and MS has to address them ASAP. It seems that it's not going to be a smooth switch until web sites get updated.

Quote "There ya go Joe. Blasting IE8 while it's in BETA MODE."
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Hang on a minute, Windows 7 beta testers are happy to praise Win 7 whilst in BETA and I dont see you having a problem with that. Infact you are doing exactly the same thing with your Windows comments.
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This is the main reason why I wont give a beta a run. Until any software hits RC, nobody really knows what its going to be like (as you say)
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Then you say:
"Of course Now that vista works pretty damn good for me I probably won't even bother with 7"
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So the question needs to be asked, why then are you bothering to test it on several machines? If youre happy with Vista, isnt it a pointless exercise? especially since (as you say) its a beta.
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For someone who is now a happy Vista user, you seem to be dedicating much of your hardware to Windows 7 when by you own admition you say you probably will wait for a netbook to get 7.
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Just an observation, and will probably result in you coming back and saying words to the effect of "what business is it of yours?", I simply made this post to highlight a discrepancy in yours.

Apple's current beta is Snow Leopard, which is supposed to be much faster than Leopard. You should really be comparing 7 + IE8 to Snow Leopard + Safari 4.

remember, there has been at least 1 interim build and the rc of ie8 since the version in the win7 beta. that version is back from last october.

@Goblin

Thanks for the interrogation goblin.

Why am I testing it on multiple machines?

I'm an IT professional and our company is looking to upgrade it's systems. Part of my job is to find the sweet spot for the new OS.

Vista does not play well with lower end systems without major tweaking. 7 does. Making it a better candidate for implementation. We do have vista running on about 35% of the companies workstations. Those machines are brand new systems with 2 gigs of memory and duo core processors. Vista runs nicely on them. But I want to leverage our "pre duo-core" systems.

I said "I" was happy. Unfortunately I have more to worry about than "ME". So in the intrest of keeping my damned job, testing is par for the course. So far I'm happy with the results. Especially since we're about to invest heavily in Laptops. I don't know if you've heard, but windows 7 has some neat little features for managing mobile computers in the pipeline. (secure connections to domain computers without vpn. Remote enforcement of group policy and disk encryption as well as remote synchronization of files) If they work as advertised that alone will be worth the price of admission.

@Goblin

Maybe ghostdizzle (ridiculous name) wouldn't have Jumped Joe's E-bones if Joe had prefaced his critique with the words "beta" He's talking about IE8 as if the version in the 7 beta is even close to RTM. It's not.

I know Joe has gotten used to Google's Permanently beta offerings, but that doesn't excuse such sloppy journalism. If the IE8 beta that's on windows 7, is the same version I tried last fall then he's absolutely right... it's garbage. Buggy, and crash prone. The version I downloaded in late Febuary (not available for windows 7) shows marked improvements in stability and functionality. Most of the plugins I used for ie7 work with this release candidate.

Could it use improvement? Anything that isn't Firefox needs improvement.

Windows Live Mail isn't part of Windows 7 so why does that diminish the OS? If you don't like it uninstall it and use another mail client.

As for IE8 it does suck on 7, I wish I could install IE8 RC1 on 7 because it is pretty good on my other PCs.

I have to ask why M$ is "fixing the UI in Seven, which was never really broken," instead of fixing the bad lack of default sercurity in Windows, including Windows Seven.

Downadup Worm Eats into 1 of Every 16 PCs

www.pcworld.com/article/160872/symantec_warns_of_worm_return.html

"The computer worm responsible for the biggest attack in years has infected at least 1 out of every 16 PCs worldwide, a security company said Wednesday, and may have managed to compromise as many as nearly 1 in 3.

According to Panda Security, almost 6% of the Windows systems scanned with its antivirus technology were found to be infected with "Downadup," a worm that began aggressive attacks just over a week ago. Panda was one of the first security firms to ring the alarm over Downadup, when it raised its security threat level Jan. 12 as reports of attacks mounted.

Using data from antivirus scans performed by its consumer-grade security software, and by a free online scanning tool it makes available on its Web site, Panda found 111,379 PCs infected with the worm out of a pool of 2 million machines.

"I'm pretty confident in this number," said Ryan Sherstobitoff , chief corporate evangelist at Panda Security, as he cautioned it was just a snapshot. "Conficker is still infecting high volumes of machines and is a fast-propagating worm.""
--------------------------------------------------
Symantec Warns of Worm's Return

www.pcworld.com/article/160872/symantec_warns_of_worm_return.html

"A third version of Downadup has been identified by Symantec, which says the new variant gives infected machines more powerful instructions to disable antivirus software and analysis tools, among other actions.

The W32 Downadup.C variant was discovered Friday in a Symantec honeypot and is still under investigation. Symantec expects to identify additional capabilities shortly, says Weafer, who adds that Symantec has not yet seen W32.Downadup.C in customer networks directly."

Quote "I don't know if you've heard, but windows 7 has some neat little features for managing mobile computers in the pipeline. "
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Oh yes, we've heard plenty of "neat" features talked about with Windows 7.
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Care to elaborate, or is this going to be another generalization intended to promote a feature we already have, in a way that implies we dont?
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Quote "We do have vista running on about 35% of the companies workstations. Those machines are brand new systems with 2 gigs of memory and duo core processors. Vista runs nicely on them. "
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Too damn right it should, Vista is years old software and about to be "upgraded" with Win7 RC. But then what is Vista offering that cant be done through XP natively or via 3rd party with much lower specs? Since your a tester, Im sure you will be able to answer.
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So as a tester, you will also know about the performance between XP & Vista, which brings me to the next question, why Vista at all?
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Since Windows 7 is beta and I think we can all agree it doesnt mean it will represent the RC, what benefit can testing be to your firm? Are you suggesting that your firm is going to be happy with beta results (as Im taking your last post as a statement that you are testing Win7) and use them to authorise a Win7 RC deployment? If you are, Id say it was a risk since as we saw with Vista Beta/RC we not quite the same were they? Using a beta to determine deployment of an OS company wide? - I guess its your job.
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For the record, it was not an interogation and neither is this.

10 versions of Windows 7?
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http://i.gizmodo.com/5166997/several-netbook-editions-means-there-will-actually-be-10-versions-of-windows-7
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If this is true then Microsoft is really keeping Windows 7 simple..!?!

"I have to ask why M$ is "fixing the UI in Seven, which was never really broken," instead of fixing the bad lack of default sercurity in Windows, including Windows Seven."

Maybe not broken but put it side by side with a mac and I think the reason to upgrade the UI from a marketing perspective is fairly obvious. As far as security goes I don't think anybody is going to disagree with wanting more security, but it has to be unintrusive. Also no matter how great the security is implemented it will not change 2 things. 1-Stupid users and 2-the fact that it is the most targeted platform due to it's popularity.

"Jumped Joe's E-bones if Joe had prefaced his critique with the words "beta""

Lol, where I group up jumping someone's bones meant something different. I do agree that Joe should have specified IE8 beta for the uninformed.

"But then what is Vista offering that cant be done through XP natively or via 3rd party with much lower specs?"

100% agree. But arguably I think if the new OS looks good and runs well it will sell well regardless of features... unless they totally screwup mail and IE.(I'm sure a mildly disfunctional mail client and browser will be overlooked by the masses as that has been the case for some time now)

" Using a beta to determine deployment of an OS company wide?"

I doubt the results of his beta test will in itself "determine" whether or not he deploys 7, well at least I hope not. However beta testing can give some good clues as to how things are coming along. When has a Microsoft beta not been crap, that alone has to be promising for the 7 beta IMHO. As far as IE8 is concerned, I don't think it's a huge issue it sure won't be my determining factor as I will generally run whichever browser is best at the time. It would be nice to see Microsoft get IE right for once but I can't see anyone having terribly high expectations considering IEs history.

@goblin

Why vista goblin?

Um do you USE vista?

Do you have to manage a large number of networked PC's?

Do you have a large number of users who've actually benefitted from the improved search features in Vista?

Have you seen a marked improvement in the ability to work at user level in vista as opposed to XP?

Have you seen full drive encryption at work with bit locker? It's saved us thousands of dollars because our mobile laptops HAVE to be encrypted. Enterprise managed enctyption solutions that "WORK" aren't exactly cheap.

Have you seen the customization of the desktop environment through group policy. (more granular than anything xp ever had)

Have you seen MDOP at work, with application streaming to vista desktops (7 coming) that makes large scale deployment of software easy and hassel free?

See those are the sorts of benefits our company has seen by moving to Vista. If 7 got delayed I'd dump our old hardware and go full scale with vista deployment. Why? Vista SP1 in my experience is more stable than XP. Application hangs happen far less often.

And really that question coming from a guy like you has about as much weight as a freaking feather.

Your real question should be "I want Microsoft to fail, so why are you giving them money by buying their software?" Get serious dude, you're a known hater.

Luckily my boss has no intention to try and ride XP down to it's grave.

And who the hell said I wasn't going to test 7 RC before deploying it?

I fully plan to test the hell out of RC1 and the RTM before it touches the first production system. I've been doing this kind of thing for over a decade now. Testing the beta simply gives me an Idea of what kind of hardware 7 can perform well on. And though I know it makes your fan-boy heart sink everytime you hear it.... It's running well on crap-dated hardware.

You really should just relax. 7's release is going to happen right smack dab in the middle of a massive economic down-turn. Microsoft is going to take a drubbing and that should give you a lot to grin about. I mean, if you can grin with the entire world economy going into $Hi@&ch stew.

Hi Drizzle, right Ill answer your questions. Ill keep them simple.
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1.Um do you USE vista?
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Um Yes. I also use XP. Caught in the .NET.
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2.Do you have to manage a large number of networked PC's?
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No.
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3. Do you have a large number of users who've actually benefitted from the improved search features in Vista?
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As above, No. Sounds a little bit like a "he who cannot be named" comment and what are these improved search features that cannot be achieved in XP and are they the sole selling point of a XP - Vista upgrade?
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4. Have you seen a marked improvement in the ability to work at user level in vista as opposed to XP?
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Id say no, but your question is so vague it could mean anything. What I would suggest is that Enterprise is not really agreeing with you either since in the main they are avoiding Vista. Or am I wrong?
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I wont continue, this is just silly. MDOP? Surely as a cost reduction and solution businesses are advised to at least consider FOSS?
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Quote "Application hangs happen far less often."
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Thats funny, Ive yet to have Linux hang on me. You think this acceptable because it happens "less often"?
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Quote "And really that question coming from a guy like you has about as much weight as a freaking feather."
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Trademark insult, thanks.
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You still didnt answer my question though did you? Windows 7 testing for your firm when the product isnt even RC?
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Quote "And who the hell said I wasn't going to test 7 RC before deploying it? "
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So whats the point of testing the beta? If we are agreed that the BETA may not represent the RC then its a bit of a wasted exercise isnt it? You do not sound like any "testers" we'd have at our firm.
Have a little think about what you are saying, Enterprise on the whole has been reluctant to make the quick adoption to Vista Microsoft would have liked. You think any firm is going to put any strength in a few tests on a beta product? and if they are not, whats the point in doing it?
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And your final piece of "expertise" really was the cream on the cake:
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"You really should just relax. 7's release is going to happen right smack dab in the middle of a massive economic down-turn. Microsoft is going to take a drubbing and that should give you a lot to grin about."
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Have you ever considered that the slower sales for IT in general may be good for Win 7?. Afterall if Enterprise doesnt seriously start looking at Win 7 until after the recession, it will be a more mature product and certainly more "tweaked" than on the RC date. This could be the thing that convinces firms to happily move from XP.
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Quote "You really should just relax." - eh? I must have missed something.

@Ghostdizzle
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I wanted to challenge this separately:
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Quote "Your real question should be "I want Microsoft to fail, so why are you giving them money by buying their software?" Get serious dude, you're a known hater."
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Firstly you are a liar.
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Secondly, if I am a "known hater" why am I against the EU tackling MS with its IE anti-trust?
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Why have I said I dont want mass migration to the Linux platform?
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Why (on my twitter) have I said I would prefer XP on a laptop to MACos?
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Why, when a user on here said he was going to boycott Microsoft products because they were not producing MS flight sim, I tried to discourage that behaviour?
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As I say, you are a liar.

Goblin...

Honestly I didn't even read that crap you posted kid.

I live in the real world.

I implement the technologies you don't even use and get them to work across multiple platforms.

I'm a pro... you're a fanboy.

Sorry kid... Vista has provided my company with a fair amount of value, made administration one hell of a lot easier and added some security gains to boot.

Those are the facts son.

And you ARE a hater. I've been reading your crud for months now and the only thing I've seen is you and the tard quartet (you know who you are) spread fud and bash some kid over a fkn laptop.

I'm sorry.... I just can't take you seriously.

So basically the worst parts about Windows 7 are IE8 and Windows Live mail.

Brilliant review. Too bad it has nowt to do with the OS.

@Ghostdrizzle
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Quote "Honestly I didn't even read that crap you posted kid."
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So how do you know it "Crap"?
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Sounds to me like you cant answer!
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Quote "I live in the real world."
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The first time I can believe something you say.
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Quote "I implement the technologies you don't even use and get them to work across multiple platforms."
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Liar. Enough said.
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Quote "And you ARE a hater. I've been reading your crud for months now and the only thing I've seen is you and the tard quartet (you know who you are) spread fud and bash some kid over a fkn laptop."
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Childish comments as usual, I dont think Andre will like being called a kid (hes 22), as he certainly isnt and the fact that you have to post like an adolescent shows who the pro is here.
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Quote "I'm sorry.... I just can't take you seriously."
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Oh dear. Im devastated that a compulsive liar who doesnt even have the knowledge to answer my points above doesnt take me seriously. BTW though thanks for reading my "crud" for months. Ill have to give you a mention (and a link here of course)
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Ghostdrizzle, its been a pleasure.

I tried 64-bit edition for 3 straight days. Overall, I was impressed with it (in terms of performance and smooth graphics/animations).

The only thing that pushed me off was some of the applications refused to work. One of the main apps was Windows Mobile Device Center 6.1. I could not get it to connect to my HTC Touch Diamond. IE8 used to freeze most of the times.

Overall, the UI looked great (not just the look-and-feel but also the ZERO-sluggish part). Very good for a BETA.

@Ghostdizzle: I have to agree with your assessment of the "Quadruplets" 100%. (and yes Goblin, a 22 year old IS a kid, you're arguing with people who have been doing this for longer than you've been alive).
I'm not taking sides in the Win vs. Linux fight, whatever works for you, go for it. But this blog for months has devolved to a haven for a group of Microsoft bashers to come in and express their bias. Joe, unfortunately, has catered to them extremely well.

@JPH
A new handle eh? Isnt is always the case that when someone has been found out they disappear only to be replaced by another "new" handle?
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I wont argue with you that 22 is "a kid" I think its not, and I wonder what you mean by "you're arguing with people who have been doing this for longer than you've been alive"
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Firstly Im closer to 40 than to 30, and secondly with the use of childish words/insults that "Ghostdrizzle" used, I would suggest that they havent been alive as long as me (going off your little theory)
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"I'm not taking sides in the Win vs. Linux fight"
Liar, you just have by making the comment "have to agree with your assessment of the "Quadruplets" 100%." and the fact that you are another convenient handle to show up just at the right time when Ghostdrizzle couldnt answer. Maybe you are Ghostdrizzle, maybe it doesnt matter, since these posts always highlight that an anti-Linux position is only ever one of insult and not of fact. Carry on youre doing a great job.
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Quote "Microsoft bashers to come in and express their bias. Joe, unfortunately, has catered to them extremely well."
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Maybe youre right, maybe Joe should have stood by and let the dubious pro-MS posters continue to insult and imitate other users (including himself)
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So now the question is not so much about the Windows beta, but what handle is going to pop up next? Will it be Ghostdrizzle? Will it be JPH? or will it be yet another new handle that appears and stays only until they cant answer?

@jph :

I have no issues with Linux/OpenSource. I'm using several RHEL servers for NFS repositories and a couple more running MYSql. Our E-mail gateway runs on fedora core, our Encryption services run on OpenBSD. We have Novell IDentity Management services running on SLES. Our accounting software runs on Unix AIX.

Administration needs are minimal and I only have to patch them every few months.

Solid platforms with zero downtime. Linux desktop's aren't my bag, never will be. between managing OSX and Windows workstations I simply have no time for flavor X of any Linux Distro. I just take issue with GobbleCock talking authoratatively about shit he knows abosolutely NOTHING about.

@Ghostdizzle....

Dude the platforms you're talking about might be *Nix based (OPenBSD ain't linux... and AIX ain't open) but they have NOTHING in common with the so called "Freetard" community offerings that nerds like Goblin are into. Those are CORPORATE offerings with REAL developers behind them. That's why they WORK.

Linux desktop is full of FAIL. Thank whatever gods you're dumb enough to believe in that you HAVEN'T found time to explore the shit quality duct taped monstrosity that is Desktop Linux. And by the way man... Linux-Watch--------->

How bout we move the discussion back to MS?

@CC.Torment:

Re: "Those are CORPORATE offerings with REAL developers behind them"

Real laid-off ex-developers, in many cases. See myriad news items, including (but by no means limited to):
ifwnewsletters.newsletters.infoworld.com/t/4533336/121258607/174727/0/

Re: "How bout we move the discussion back to MS?"

How bout you write politely so you don't appear as if you were raised in a whorehouse whose mother couldn't afford a babysitter and had to take you to work with her?

Hey Phil.

Fuck you bub. (Polite enough)

And btw.... It's a global economic meltdown. Layoff's happen. And a layoffs have nothing to do with the reliability of the platform.

I guess those laid off guys could become basement dwelling un-washed nerds.... then you'd have someone to talk to in your LUSER group.

Philosopher,
I think theyve shown their true colours, not that I believe any of these obscene potty mouths are different people.
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Again, It highlights perfectly, the only argument that can be put forward to counter FOSS it one of abuse and childish remarks.
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@Ghostdrizzle
You still havent answered my questions have you Ghostdrizzle. BTW How old are you supposed to be?
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Probably about the same age as CC.torment:
Quote "guess those laid off guys could become basement dwelling un-washed nerds.... then you'd have someone to talk to in your LUSER group."
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You forgot the bit about Linux users wanting girlfriends. If you think this is the way to put a coherent counter argument against anything, then I would guess you are one of the 8yr olds that featured on the recent MS adverts - "Hey mom look, I can use Windows to be a potty mouth"
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Quote of the day "Linux desktop is full of FAIL." I can tell by that you are a true professional.

I'm professional enough to see a 20 year old effort result in jack.... and shit......

And hey what's the difference between a laid off Sun Microsystems developer and a Linux nerd?

The Sun guy had a fucking job in the first place.

LOL
I wish CC.Torment you were old enough to see the irony in your post.
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I hope Joe doesnt delete your post (maybe just censors your potty mouth) as I think they serve as an excellent example as to the quality of a anti-linux or indeed FOSS argument. Now that you really have "burnt your bridges" isnt it time you created another new handle and started the cycle all over again?
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Or maybe you will just try to distort the messages here with more of your vulgar tirade. I wait in anticipation to see just how desperate and low you are prepared to go.
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We've had the Linux basement routine and the Linux jobless one, I dont though believe that youve mentioned the girlfriend one yet. Maybe thats something you can consider for future tirades? Or maybe you'll go in for a spot of bigotry or sexism? Who knows?

@Goblin:
I was only using the whorehouse remark to illustrate how base his language is. But it looks like I hit a nerve! I never in a million years would have thought that I could have accurately described his upbringing on the first guess, and without even trying, no less!

And in addition to CC.Torment's gem of subtle expression, Joe hasn't yet deleted the other recent series of three posts at:

www.microsoft-watch.com/content/desktop_mobile/the_problem_with_netbooks.html#comment-497102

Maybe Joe's busy, maybe he's sick, maybe he just forgot. Or maybe he's interested in finding out what new words CC.TrashMouth will learn at Steve Ballmer's next chair-throwing session. ;-)

Hi Philosopher!
Quote "Maybe Joe's busy, maybe he's sick, maybe he just forgot. Or maybe he's interested in finding out what new words CC.TrashMouth will learn at Steve Ballmer's next chair-throwing session. ;-)"
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Or maybe Joe feels it important to highlight just how weak the counter Linux argument is?
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When reading the comments of ghostdrizzle and cc.torment (and others of the same ilk) its easy to forget that MSWatch is supposed to be (IMO) the realm of adults. If I went over to say a Halo forum Id expect to see their types of posts. But here?
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If you had told me alleged adults would behave this way when I first started to post here, id never have believed you. I read many sites about these types of antics before coming here and never believed them. How wrong was I.
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At the end of the day if someone wants to use Windows or Microsoft products thats fine by me (most of my extended family do) whats wrong is when a legitimate alternatives message is distorted in the ways we see here on a almost daily basis, by people who have no problems using any sort of insult/tactic to spread their FUD.
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Philopsher, I think its says alot when myself, you, chips,marcus,billybob etc etc post here repeatedly under the same handle. There is no such thing here as a pro-Microsoft regular handle (IMO) (except maybe Jess Meats, whose opinion is respected by all IMO, since she is open and honest, as well as being interesting to read) Since the departure (in the main) of "he who cannot be named" plus the calming of his Microsoft worship on Twitter(IMO), I think its not too harsh to say that the reason why people like CC.Torment dont last very long here is that they completely ruin their own argument by not only behaving like children, but trying to promote things which really (IMO) do not stand up against the alternatives out there and the reality of whats available.
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and after all this time they still havent worked out that their posts only serve to provide a platform for more examples of why users should at least consider an alternative to Microsoft products.

Interesting article:
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"Is IE8 the end of the line for Internet Explorer?"
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http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisedesktop/archives/2009/03/is_version_8_th.html