Joe nice try mate !

1. Microsoft doesn't need specialist stores of its own, every computer store has "something" from microsoft in it.

2. Apart from "Apple" stores can you buy an apple from any other retail store? No.... and that's why apple needs its own stores and why it is only available from it's own stores.

3. Due to the fact that Apple has its own stores, would you expect "Normal Outlets" to stock Apple?
I wouldn't, it is NOT in their interests to do so !

4. Why would a normal retailer stock an apple product that "says" it's better than a PC ?
Then the retailer would not sell the "normal" PC gear or would they?

So you see Joe Apple will alaways stay in Apple stores.

Neil, while it is true that there are not as many retail outlets selling Apples as selling Windows computers, you can, indeed, buy them at CompUSA, and there are other local computer shops selling Apple computers as well.

Your fourth argument is specious as well. I am sure that HP is happy to say that their computers are better than Sony's, yet you can buy both at most retailers.

Well Doog
I live in Australia and Apple Shops (as far as I have seen Here anyway) are the ONLY ones to stock Apple.
And even though your CompUSA stocks them ... here is different!
And any way apart from Joe telling everyone about this, their advertising here would be limited to their own stores, and they would be preaching to the "already" converted.

And one last thing this site is "SUPPOSED TO BE" Microsoft Watch what the hell has Apples new advertising campaign to do with microsoft ??

I think that they should rename it to Techology Watch if they are going to say things about everthing !

Just because the the site is "Microsoft Watch" does not mean it should not mention any other technologies other than Microsoft. Additionally, Joe's article here is definitely pertinent to Microsoft. The comparison of Apple to Microsoft will always be of interest to the Microsoft faithful as long as both companies compete.

Neil,

This article about Apple is here because Apple has been kicking Microsoft's butt for years now. All of you Microsoft geeks who always dreamed of the day Apple would 'go out of business' have had to revise your fantasies over and over. And, it must be very hard to realize that Apple has always had it over Microsoft, who only copies the minimum features from Apple years later. Microsoft doesn't innovate in technology, only in shady and sometimes illegal business practices. e.g. Embrace and Extend, FUD, etc...

You have no clue about Apple. They are available all over. They are available on the internet as well, as many PCs are exclusively. Dell used to sell a lot of PCs, but even though they are never available in stores, you probably don't whine about that, do you?

Finally, practically EVERY store on the planet, right down to the drugstores, have APPLE products and NOT Microsoft products--the iPod accessories are available EVERYWHERE, in FAR MORE places than any Microsoft products.

Well said Neil. And by the way, just like anything coming from Apple, this is all very relative. First example: "By contrast, Munster expects "40 percent of Mac users to upgrade to Leopard in the first year of availability."" Well, hell yeah! I mean if they don't get at least 40% of the 1.5%+/- of the world's computer users to purchase their "new" OS, I bet Apple would be pretty much out of business and all they would be selling would be their pathetic iPods. Additionally, 40% of the Apple people are most likely the real, REAL Apple fanboys, and that relative to the Windows enthusiast population is rather pathetic. Second example: any company that needs to poke at another company's great success is certainly not a company with absolute confidence in their own products, otherwise they wouldn't need to worry about "damaging" the competition via propaganda. Now some of you may claim that it's simply marketing and that any other company does it. Well, so far none of Microsoft's advertising has even linked to an Apple product and doing so is probably right. Apple might not realize it, but really, they are kind of advertising Microsoft's Vista for free! How is that? Well, I've gotten several people come up to me and say, "Hey, what is that "vista" thing? Is it new?" And that's how I end up talking about Vista and them leading to Best Buy to get their own. (Honestly, 4 friends and one teacher so far). This is because it's already set in too many people's minds that Apple makes iPods and not computers, yes they'll see them in commercials and movies, but they don't think that they are actually "real". Since they've neve been exposed to anything else, all that exists and care about is Windows. And by they way, 95% of the population don't even know what Windows version they are using, they're just used to it, and they don't really like change...so Microsoft again has played their cards right. What I would find fun to see though is some sort of Microsoft response to Apple's propaganda.

Brian: How can you even compare a computer to an iPod's headphones? If so, tell me, please tell me, in how many retail stores do you not find a product without the Windows logo? E.g: keyboards, mice, stereos, games, cables, CD's..etc. Please, enough of this "relative" commenting.

I too have noticed an increase interest in people buying iMacs and iBooks and MacBook pros too. I've been to a local WFI shop catering to the trendy crowd and noticed on both occasions someone using MacBook pros- don't think this goes unnoticed by shoppers.

Rick Gowran
Point taken !

Brian
Apple has NOT been kicking microsofts butt for years now. One other thing Microsoft does not sell or market computers, they sell mainly software (apart from Mice, keyboards and such)

Albert
Here here ... I totally agree with you... good on yer mate !

Ird
Mate the trendy crowd have ALWAYS gone for a iMac because of it's "trendy" colours, and almost all of these "trendies" would not know how to do things on it anyway, it just "looks" good !

Some reasons why Vista sales will slump:

1) XP users don't see the value added in upgrading- feature saturation for many has been attained.

2) Companies large and small are feeling the effects of higher energy and labor cost- especially big companies in developed nations.

3) Millions of people have invested many hours of in developing their iTunes library and won't take a chance with screwing up neither their playlist or for that matter their beloved iPODs!

4) Many local and major governments are looking for way to cut expenses-buying something that could only have a trickle down effect of making them spend more than budgeted will be viewed as too risky in light of taxpayer scrutiny.

5) Many schools with PCs have older PCs with small memory and hard drives and thus allowing for essentially only one upgrade path and taxpayers are also scrutinizing these expenses too!

6) Many foreign governments are adopting Linux's open source as a prefrerred modern OS to MS's continuation of bug ridden and crash prone OS.

7) Google and Apple offering better alternatives especially to the early adopters and more tech savvy folks.

8) Dell, Gateway and Lenovo and Sony all competing for the low margin end. While Apple eats away at 80 to 90% of the high margin end.

9) The iGeneration is beginning to questions their parents choices as Apple's ads and the iPOD halo effect clearly dictate that superior choices were over looked for the mere choice of compatibility- now not as much of an issue as 10 years ago with cross platform file types.

As a rabid Apple fanboy, I'd just like to say it's refreshing to see a balanced, even-handed article like this one. It's rare to see anything online these days that isn't filled with hyperbole one way or the other. Cheers.

Last PC dedicated computer stores ended with Compaq?
Or was it Gateway or Dell?

What a waste of space and cost....

Mail order from factory and save salary of sales
people.

PCs sell out of non computer stores.... Staples,
Best Buy, Circuit City, etc...

Only the idiots who need their hands held and feelings jerked around would go into an Apple
Orchard.

My computer operates with Windows XP and I have NEVER had a sysytem crash at all, whereas I did with Windows 98 and SE versions.
Windows Vista has been built better than XP so your arguement regarding bugs and crash prone is definitely not valid.
As far as the next generation is concerned my kids would not touch a Mac in a million years.
And as I said before ... I am XP user and I DO see the merit in upgrading to Vista.
And lastly since when is google offering an OS alternative to windows, Apple yes ... but Google mate.

In regards to the idea of a "Microsoft store", they actually had one here in San Francisco for some time, in the Sony Metreon building downtown, and it had a decent amount of foot traffic, but nobody was ever really buying anything, so eventually they shut it down. And it wasn't a kiosk or anything, it was a big store, operated by Microsoft, displaying all kinds of different MS technologies, with a big focus on gaming as well. Perhaps, in their minds, it was less of a retail outlet and more of a technology showcase for them, but either way, they pulled the plug after a few years.

Bart Lee
I am happy that you are happy with your mac and it has fulfilled your needs, and isn't that what a computer is for.
I would prefer NOT to do "mine's better than yours" sort of stuff, it tends to show (as some people have said previously) an insecurity about what you are using.
And unfortunately most of this is being said by mac users.
If Linux and Apple were SOOOO good then why oh why do they have such a small amount of users then?
And if Windows is SOOOO bad why don't people use the other two?
Are Linux and Apple users insecure ? I don't know ! You make your own mind up !

See Neil? It's hard not to inject hyperbole. I'm an Apple guy but I've never really felt the need to bash Microsoft. To each his own. You're happy, I'm happy - great.

One statistic that floored me was the fact that Apple generates over $4,000 per square foot in sales per store annually. That's over four times Best Buy's $930/sq ft and almost double Tiffany's. That is insane. And I thought Apple was making a huge mistake when they decided to open them.

Link:
http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=20332&hed=How+Apple+Stores+Beat+Tiffany

You guys really think Microsoft is keeping up with Apple? If so, you are delusional.

Look at the stocks. No comparison.

You would think that MSFT would have gotten above $30 and stayed there what with Vista coming out, and with all the new file formats in Office to bind everyone into an upgrade...

Dell some years ago gave Jobs this advice: "I'd sell the company and give the money back to the investors".

Microsoft recently says that they want to KILL the iPod (and no doubt everything else Apple).

With thoughts like these, I fear trusting the future with these two vision-less companies. Please, quit looking to Apple to solve your Microsoft problems (that is, unless you're intending on switching to Mac).

Do you really think the sensible multi-billionaires who have the 90% market share need to resort to copying an insignificant niche player who enjoys only a small following of brainwashed users? The Microsoft press would lead us to believe that your's is an absurd idea. After all, the largest, most innovative company, doesn't need to do that.

So what is the truth?

Bart Lee
I never felt the need the to have go at Mac users either mate, but some Apple zealots just keep on asking for it, sooo !

Here is a few facts:
1. Apple used to be known as "Apple Computers" ! Now "Apple Co."
2. The Apple iPod accounts for over 80% of Apples revenue.
Why did they change the name simple the Apple Mac is only a SMALL part of their business, the iPod which is not a computer, accounts for the majority of their revenue.
Why oh why after more than 20 years if Apple Computers were so good (as an apple person says "Better than Windows" Why the need for "Bootcamp" if windows was sooo bad why put it on a Mac ??
I won't answer this but I am sure a lot of people will TRY !!
Lastly why did apple change over their CPU to an intel one (used in PC's guys)?

Slow down there buddy.

1. It's Apple, Inc., not Apple Co.

2. The iPod accounted for 57% of revenue, not 80%. That number went down from 59% previously. Though iPod sales were double what they were the previous year-ago quarter, Mac sales growth outpaced that (and outpaced Windows pc growth as well)
Source:
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2007/01/17/apples-conference-call-look-for-margins-to-fall-back-in-march-quarter/

3. The reason for Boot Camp? To remove the barrier for people who say they "have to have a Windows pc to run [insert program here]". As a web developer, I find it very convenient to be able to boot into Windows when needed to test a site's compatibility. Apple makes their money on hardware, and they know the ability to have both operating systems is a HUGE selling point (which also answers your question about why they switched to Intel chips). I know several people who bought a Macbook Pro based on that dual-booting ability.

Neil,

A year ago, I wouldn't even consider buying a Mac because I'm an engineer and I couldn't run my engineering software (Windows based) on them. Now, with the advent of Parallels and Intel processors in all Macs, I'm more than willing to make the switch. I'm not the only one in the engineering community to do the same. Several of my colleagues have ditched their Dell craptops in favor of Macbooks.

From my perspective, I think Apple is creating the curve of innovation that everyone else is trying to imitate. Much the same way Google is. Wait for Google to have a web based OS. It's always the innovators that are criticized for crossing the boundaries.

I find the design of Apple products to be visually appealing with cleaner lines and great colors. If you believe that emotion doesn't play a part in any purchase, even in computers, you're kidding yourself. I like the MacOS much better than Windows and I've been around computers for a long time; going back to the DOS 3.0 days and writing my own batch files. I'm certainly not someone who needs my hand held with a computer. I know the specs I want in a machine, I want something I enjoy using and makes me productive, and I want it to look good.

Are there those out there who do need their hand held? Sure, and they need a place they can take their machine and have someone help them with it, in person. You can't give customer support like that over a phone line from India.

Apple has a better idea of what people want and they're delivering. They made a great move with the Intel processors and the ability to run Windows natively because now all of the Windows users that switch can do so and still use all of that software they spent so much money on.

And that, my friend, is why my next computer will be a Mac.

My apologies Bart !
But ... you can see what I am getting at I hope ?
Without the iPod, Apple Inc. would be in big trouble.
Even the Internet needs windows just as you have said !
Mind you that area would take us into another OS ... Linux.

Wow... what a load of ill-informed Apple-bashing, coming from the guys who say only "Apple fanboys" have bad things to say.

Glass houses, boys.

I suppose it does make a change from ill-informed microsoft bashing, doesn't it ?
How does it feel ?
You guys keep on bashing us why the hell shouldn't we retaliate ?
It's not nice is it ?

This is becoming Apple Watch, not Microsoft Watch. If everything Apple is doing is so great, why is no one using a Mac for anything other than showing how cool they think they are (oh yeah, and reading their e-mail, too, wow).

Please give us news about MICROSOFT. I could not care less about Apple. If I wanted to read about Apple, I'd subscribe to an Apple feed. Thank you.

You nailed it on the head with the MS store concept. I've been harping this to softie friends of mine and they just don't seem to get it. Microsoft has no direct relationship with the consumer and it is clearly starting to show. Vista, while nice on the surface, doesn't really ressinate with consumer needs that way Mac does. It ressonates nicely with corporate America. I don't think that any coincidence considering that when Microsoft says 'customers' they really mean multi-seat licensors like UPS and FedEx.

The biggest thing about MS stores that would benefit Microsoft would be the whole consumer education side of things. I don't own a Mac, but everytime I'm in the mall I spend some time inside of the Apple store watching computer noobs getting a good dose of education for free at the Macbar.

Harp a little louder. Even though MS is this huge monolithic corporation and they seem very unpersonal to many, it's been my experience that they will truely listen and respond to the 'little guy'. More people need to start barking up this store tree.

With products like 'Home Server' in the pipeline, now is the perfect time to start considering some targeted retail stores in major metropolitan areas.

@Brad Freedman

If you think people are using Macs for nothing other than to look cool, do you have a Microsoft detox in order. Macs are favorite among developers and scientist for their completenesss of tools and ease of use. Just ask Tim Berners-Lee, David Heinemeier Hansson or Tim O'Reilly, just a few of the shakers of the internet today, to find out what all the fuss is about. "Power of UNIX, ease of a Mac" pretty much says it all.

The tools, yeah let's just give the tools a brief mention. Tim Berners-Lee acknowledged their power when he used them to invent the web, but today, Apple's tools (Xcode, Cocao, WebObjects, on and on and on) continue achieving impressive feats at the necessary pace to keep up with today's rapid developments. You need look no farther than 5 OS X versions, iLife, iTunes, iWork and Leopard due in spring--all done in just five short years. But it doesn't stop there, these are living projects able to shift course on a dime, not bloated applications destined to become daunting challenges to update in some far future. It's obvious to anyone honest enough with themselves that Apple's tools are, as Goldilocks would say, "just right" for the rapid development needed in today's internet age.

As far as not covering Apple news, I totally agree. I couldn't care less if I never visit another Microsoft web site again. But unfortunately an insecure Microsoft and its obsessed journalists are continually writing FUD about Apple which continually draws me into the debate. At least this site has respect for its net-citizens to allow challenges. Other Windows-only sites, like MSN, Channel9 and Channel10, issue misinformation behind their Gated communities.

Microsoft's business model of late seems to be to wait for good ideas and try to emulate them. This article points out something that Apple is doing very successfully that Microsoft SHOULD be emulating.

And I know some people in design and film who are using their Macs to make a LOT of money :p

Yup, Mac sales are so brisk that their USA market share has skyrocketed up to 4.7%, and their worldwide market share has surged to 2.4%.

In spite of all the hype in the media, the Mac continues to be a market share failure.

Microsoft and HP (etc.) have nothing to worry about.

Wow, what a perfectly oblivious statement. My AAPL stock has seen a 650% increase in the past six years while my MSFT has remained pretty stagnant. The only areas Microsoft is profitable in are Windows and Office. Everything else they are dipping into - games, music, mobiles, etc - have been money-losing ventures thus far. HP, Dell, et al have more to worry about from Apple than Microsoft now that Macs runs Windows too. Hey, every Mac sold could be another Vista sale as well now.

I hope Apple's market share does stay low, though. I don't want to have to start worrying about viruses and spyware.

Mac, UNIX, and Linux users all have the same thing in common. They all hate Microsoft. Instead of trying to compete with a better product, they resort to lies and deception. How long can we let this go on? Here is the solution to overtake Microsoft. Create a better, cheaper product, and then the masses will switch. Until then, stop giving me your "Hate Microsoft" marketing strategies. It makes me wonder about your product. Usually when someone disrespect someone else, it is because their covering up their own flaws.

C'mon, Apple's not the only one comparing their wares to Vista. Even Microsoft has been hinting that Vienna is the next "cool" thing. Funny, why is Microsoft talking about Vienna now when Vista has barely left the gate?

Brad Freeman :

"This is becoming Apple Watch, not Microsoft Watch. If everything Apple is doing is so great, why is no one using a Mac for anything other than showing how cool they think they are (oh yeah, and reading their e-mail, too, wow)."

You're so right. Macs are used to record all the music albums you hear, the feature films you see, the magazines you read, and so on. It's clearly just to make people look cool and not to get anything done.

It's not like Microsoft commissioned a user study of what people do with Windows and found that reading email was #1 or anything. Anyway, enjoy your WGA.

JohnJ:

Yup, Mac sales are so brisk that their USA market share has skyrocketed up to 4.7%, and their worldwide market share has surged to 2.4%.

And Britney Spears sells more CDs than Mozart in a year. Apple's worldwide install base is 15%. Of course, at the rate Vista is selling, there are more Mac users than Vista users.

In spite of all the hype in the media, the Mac continues to be a market share failure.

A market share failure would be a product that didn't make any revenue. Unlike Vista, OS X actually sells (18 million OS X users at last count). The market share failure here is Vista.

Microsoft and HP (etc.) have nothing to worry about.

Microsoft has been very worried about Google and Apple for years. Microsoft is a company that's on its way out. Vista is based on aging Win32 technology dating back to 1985 which was itself a clone of MacOS (where do you think your Recycle Bin comes from? Your File-Edit-View-Help menus? Xerox didn't have 'em).

Watching Microsoft fans reeling at the downward spiral of this aging technology company is amusing. Until you guys get rid of Steve Ballmer, Microsoft will continue its march toward irrelevance.

well i guess this means war.OSX vs Vista

I said stop BASHING my DAD's company. Apples are for EATING and the rotten ones for throwing at BUMS just like those people WHO DON'T LOVE WINDOWS.

Anyone who doesn't agree with my opinion is WRONG and an IDIOT. I am getting angry with you people who dare to say anything is wrong with Microsoft. If your XP machine has crashed or you have problems doing things in Windows then that is because you are STUPID not the OS. Microsoft is flawless and it created Windows in its own image.

So shut up bashing microsoft, I really don't know who you people think you are saying those nasty things. Lies, they are, just nasty lies because your just jealous of ME and MY DAD's company. You just want Bill to be your DAD, but he won't because he has me, and he LOVES me. So shove your opinions...

Let's add a little intelligence to this discussion. Okay?

"Technically" ------

OSX is the better OS, I don't think anyone disputes that. It is unable to spread viruses, it's easier to write applications for, has a more advanced software selection, etc.

Vista is really the OLD IBM. It's the OLD punch-card based OS, the one people still use because their "perception" is nobody got fired by buying Microsoft.

Times have now changed:

The hardcore techies have all moved to OSX at this point in time, leaving a very vocal majority to "say", "punchcards work fine! - what are you doing moving to the web for all software? "

Fact is, OSX and its Father... NeXTStep, created the "World Wide Web", (ever heard of it?) and is exactly how you are reading this now, it's "how" you work with computers today. You use Unix or OSX. NOT Vista. That's only a layer to remain compatible with punchcards, which all Macs run (when needed) with ease.

It will take some more time for everyone to move up to this new reality, but for those that have already moved up to OSX, you understand EXACTLY what I'm saying.

-

any nix > winblows.

Why does winblows own apple macs ?

Microsoft released win 95 with a very usable gui when thre was a serious lack.

They created an intuitive and EASY TO USE gui when micro-computing was hitting the masses.
You didnt have to understand a command line interface to use one or the hap hazard mac os.

yea bla bla dosshell bla bla 3.1(1) all bs

Why do most professionals who actually use an os use nix's becuase they are easiest / quickest / most stable out there. the issue, not enough people use them and they dont have enough companies releasing stuff to fill all thier needs, they require smeone in the community to have already had the same need and generated a solution unless they want to create it themselves.....

why do the masses continue to use windows ?

ease of use (they are used to the windows generic format) same as why majority of people use nokia mobile phones ( I believe you refer to this as brainwashing). Second reason. most new home machines are purchased for the children and parrents who wish to run games. bigger faster more indepth games that requrie more and more resources to run effectively. as most people already have winblows most games a written for winblows and the cycle continues. Dont try and tell me you need a pent duo core 2 6700 with 1000mhz capable ram and 800mhz capable bus with a pair of x16 pcie gfx cards to do the company accounting or word processing ... hell some seriously major gfx editting in major sizing... sure this would be a plus, generating 3d objects in a realtime evironment maybe... but that would account for what... sub 1% sales if remotely that eh?

I diverge.

Why do I currently have both ? my powerbook with osx panther for work, some games, (there are some but not very many by comparison).

its an awsome machine for what is required of it, though i do my movie editing with it, optioned up gfx card for this purpose.

Then there is my desktop games machine. as its requirements are to run ms xp and play games, both of which are resource hoars.

which admitedly does have alt hds for either os, not setu as dual boot of one drive. this machine's winblows is solely there to run GAMES with crap rendering ... YAY!

Hey have you heard Apple Macs think February goes up to the 50th instead of just going to the 28th !

I am incredibly ugly and blame society.

Theres that "Neil Basher" again folks !

To Brian,

Your comments, while on the surface seem enthusiastic about Apple, are not credible. Your dramatic overemphasis on unsupportable and exaggerated claims of non facts, reveal a significant degree of bitterness and lack of reasoned objectivity regarding the issues behind you post. Just some friendly feedback. No offense intended.