Nice post Joe. Forgive me if I hold your feet to the fire a little here, but you did say that you thought Azure was more "vaporware." Not so sure I would totally agree, but I do respect your opinion, even though I disagree loudly at times.

I think Microsoft want Azure to work, its a new way to provide lock-in to the unawares, and make MS a lot of money. In that respect it bares repeating, theres one born every minute, and if you do not believe that just look people at what happened to those that bought into MS Plays for sure. All you money and data belong to us, Microsoft. Beware, people, you have been warned. Joe will not warn you, but I will.

Joe says: "How Can You Be So Sure about Azure?"

It simple Joe, history repeats itself, and those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to relive the mistakes. I may have not got the quote quite correct, but you get the idea. And as far as Microsoft, can a leopard change its spots? Another one, but it fits. Azure is about money, and Microsoft doing sometimes to get more money, simple.

Wake up and smell the coffee. If they had it in their hearts to just do something nice for users, they would work on all the malware problems of Windows.

Strange that this post was made. One could be forgiven for thinking that maybe someone has "had a word" and that is the reason for this "extra" post.
Whatever the reason, all this was said in the other thread. True, we dont know what the future holds, but then isnt the point of the comments feature for us to debate our different views on the subject.

Joe said "I'm rather mystified but this anti- versus pro-Microsoft or Azure debate by Microsoft Watch commenters."

Come on Joe, I dont believe for one minute that you are mystified. Didnt you know there are two/three sides to the debate here? You know very well that there are those that are anti MS/proprietary here. There is no mystery here.
One could be forgiven for thinking that someone has had a word in your ear in regards to the previous articles. Have they? - To be honest, I dont really care. But youre mystified about open V MS debate? I dont think so.
This article to me seems like a backtrack on previous articles and damage limitation.
Just my opinion. I hope youre not mystified.
Regards.

Azure will be targeted to whom? Home users, enterprise users, all users. There's a large contingent of people satisfactorily using other OS platforms. What's it going to offer that Google doesn't? Just who are they marketing this to; currently disappointed microsoft users? If it's not all users it's just vaporware or isn't it?

It definitely will not be enterprise 'cause a publicly traded company has Sarbane/Oaxley and other auditing issues to deal with and it's not going to put "data-at-rest" in an internet data center.

Why is Microsoft reinventing the wheel? Are they trying to do what Google has been doing successfully. It seems as another case of "me too", again. Is that why they're trying to sabotage the Google/Yahoo deal by proxy?

Joe says:
"I followed up with "Microsoft's Server Stack Gets Higher." Microsoft Watch reader reaction surprised me."
----------------------------------------------------
And what exactly surprised you Joe? Still no stand, still no moral high ground, still no laptop, even though the less knowledgeable like Botts and Oui get them, huh? Maybe even Andre will get one first, but I doubt it, just some trinkets for him. And yes again, I would have taken the laptop if I was in your place, but I would admit it. Which again, I believe you that u did not.

But I have a big problem with your moral standing on some of these posts. When you cannot even come out and say what Microsoft did was totally wrong, with regard to giving away Laptops. Thats very very bad. Its clearly bad. Only because you want to also come down on the "other side" or hand, of the argument, and take the side of Microsoft. Did I miss something here Joe, or did this country, the US Of A, just become the property of Billy Gates and MS? OK, it is, its been for a long long time. Its a moral question, do you guys at eWeek want to go down with the sinking ship Microsoft, or want to go with the future? The future is not malware and windows seven my friend. Its open source and some Mac.

People are sick of Malware, and looking for alternatives. In real live, I convert people to Linux. Because it just works on the internet without all the problems of Windows. Over 4% that MS has lost just on the desktop, and the best that Ballmer can do is to release R2 of Vista. With no better malware features? Get Real! What is he on? Windows users are suffering! They bring their computers to me all the time to clean out the malware. I am refusing so many for so long. I refuse to clean any more now for new users. Just hand them a linux live cd. Heck, tired of all the recurring problems.
But you folks here at eWeek, I thought maybe you were something different. Not bought and paid for like Andre and his creed, not owned by Microsoft. Prove me wrong if you can Joe, so far I don't see it.

Since its coming up to xmas...
If Andre wants a laptop that badly, instead of him posting his MS adverts and degrading himself, couldnt we all club together and buy him one? If we got him a Linux one, maybe he would help support the open source cause and make some of his "feature rich" comments for Linux instead of MS?

Hey, if it works for MS it can work for us!

@Chips - Future is open source & Mac? - Yep, Ill go with that. I love Linux, and I actually find the wifes Mac a great improvement over her previous Windows laptop.

@Goblin:
You can't insult Andre, or his sock puppets. He has no conscience. He is a creation of Microsoft. Bought and paid for, a check sent in the mail. Get it. You mean good, and I appreciate you and others like Marco, who are good people, who try to help others. But Andre, will come back, he has no face, he is not real, not sure he really exists in real life. He has no esistance beyond Microsoft, do you not find that strange? I do. google for it, its all about microsoft posts. No hits about anything else, no life about Jamaica. Why? Is it because there is none, and he is a creation of MS?

Again, I only responded to insults from Andre and some of his ink a long time ago. They went after me. I would not back down, I still will not. And their software and malware still sucks. As will Seven without major major malware improvements. Why anyone in their right minds would knowingly run it is beyond me.

Forgive me eweek users and Joe for being so writing so much.

I fail to see any reason to get excited about a Microsoft "Vaporware" claim to start doing everything that its competitors, Google and IBM are already more than halfway towards achieving.

"You can't insult Andre, or his sock puppets. He has no conscience. He is a creation of Microsoft." - Maybe my post was a little misinterpreted, I do infact agree that Andre is a creation of MS. The thing is its difficult to prove to others, so what I try to do with Andre, is try to humanize him into a real person then expose all the sillyness.

One question though. The photo's of him with his family, I wonder if they got permission or if indeed they are of an MS employee?

BTW for the record, the time that I started believing Andre was not real, was when I saw an avatar of his in another forum. It had a picture of himself and underneath the words "Thats me", it was then I thought "Why is he trying so hard to identify himself on the net, unless he's not actually real and trying very hard to convince others that he is?"

I am really interested to hear about "They went after me" Is that something we can hear about?

Joe

Nice post and a great discussion. There is one difference I think needs to be taken in to account in terms of whether Microsoft will deliver - Ray Ozzie. If you look back at the FAM presentations over the last 3 years (but in particular 2007) it's clear that he's steered MSFT to methodically deliver on what he set out to.

The real test of adoption now begins

Steve

If it truly competed, there wouldn't be no excitation.

Remember Office Live? Where did that go? What about Hailstorm and Midori?

Now Azure is Microsoft’s latest “cloud” hype. As Gardner said,"Microsoft needs to decide whether it really wants to be in the software or services business. Trying to have it both ways, for an indeterminate amount of precocious time, to in effect delay the advancement of serious productivity, seems a terrible waste and a terrible way to affect its community." http://blogs.zdnet.com/Gardner/?p=2748

The continuous anti competitiveness behavior is the kicker. Groklaw, among others, has an on-going list of those, not too ethical, business practices. http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=20051216153153504#iso

One thing to note; Microsoft has been convicted in a court of law in the USA and the EU for said practices.

Nice work Joe, you're framing the situation well. We are not even to the honeymoon period yet. Some of the recent reader responses remind me of a hormonally charged teenager wondering what base he will be getting to next.

Azure is huge. And I think it is currently beyond some of its target audience, the ones writing about it anyway. You seem to grasp the magnitude of the situation. There are significant consequences to Azure, and there will be unintended consequences.

Convincing people to move to the cloud will be a tough sell. Convincing them to move to servers owned only by Microsoft will be even tougher. Convincing them to download software just to get where they used to be will open up a world of hurt.

The Azure presentation was lost on some of the developers, while Windows 7 was very well received. Some developers will have to considerably up their game to understand Azure. The future for Microsoft is Azure, not Windows 7.

Finding a way to maintain the revenue stream of Office will be difficult. The vast majority of Office users could get by on a free, feature reduced version in the cloud. Unless of course, the free version is so crippled that nobody can use it. I'm reminded of WordPad not having a new page function.

I'll close with a positive thought. No matter the outcome, the world will be a better place. So let me be the first to say, thank you Microsoft.

Quote Dave lindhout "while Windows 7 was very well received"

Have you read ALL of the attendees comments? I think you will find thats not the case.

Quote Dave Lindhout "The vast majority of Office users could get by on a free, feature reduced version in the cloud."

Yep or they could simply use an alternative.
With the recent publication of stolen debit card numbers through exploits, I agree that MS will have a tough time getting anyone to trust their data over this type of platform.

Quote Dave Lindhout "Some developers will have to considerably up their game to understand Azure"
I dont really think so, I speak for my collegues aswell when I say we are well aware of what Azure means and its implications, thats the problem.

The only thing I thank MS for is its assistance in knocking down the price of hardware for the home user. If the binary slug had not required ever increasing (and unreasonable) specs, demand for more systems would not have been as great and the price would be higher.

I would also like to know exactly who are the customers for this and how you would define it successful?

I think their plan is the same as always, which is to force all computers, mobiles and servers to run Microsoft software so they can control the entire industry. They have even less chance than they did in 1990.

I see why now we havent had so many adverts from Mr Da Co$ta.

Hes been a busy boy typing up this review:

http://activewin.com/reviews/previews/windows7/

He's made a cracking comment "OEMs did a bad job of communicating Vista by sending systems out of their factories without properly testing real world scenario’s of what the average consumer will be doing with such a system"

- So there you have it. Here we were blaming MS all this time, when really its the sellers fault.
Well Im pleased thats sorted out (and Andre Im being sarcastic). So the poor sales are the fault of the seller. I wonder if MS shareholders actually believe that?

@Goblin:
Please don't feed the $hills and put links here for there worthless propaganda. Even I quoted him for fun, be I would not put his link here. It makes him feel important, instead of the errand boy for MSFT that he is.

My bad, I just couldnt believe the nerve of the guy/bot/fictional character.

I wont in future. The main reason I did though, was to show, how he is backtracking on many of the "opinions" he had here. I hoped that people would follow the link to see for themselves how he posts one thing here and one thing elsewhere. Then they could make up their own minds on his integrity.

Thanks for linking my review, it really tells the truth, all of you should read it. I know I did a good job representing the facts honestly. Windows Vista set a foundation that continues today, even now, customers are seeing continued value, richness, connectedness and safety. Features like UAC, Kernel Mode Protection, Device Driver Signing, Data Execution Prevention (DEPT), ASRL all contribute to a powerful experience for both businesses and consumers. In a world of Linux, you have to compile or code something like that without getting to do the things you want to do, rich is, creating your data, sharing your memories with family and friends, going and vacations, picnic's.

Vista lets you go back to the fundamentals by taking the complexity out of the PC. Think about the instantaneous experiences users get from Vista, a feature like Media Center that brings the memories you create, videos, photos, your personal music collection into the living room. The biggest part is its done seamlessly. Its more than just entertainment, its about bringing families and friends together.

Linux is good for hobbyist, its for the student who wants to learn about how an OS works and play around. But Windows offers that too and more. People do not want complexity, they want ease of use, security and productivity and Vista offers that. I hope you guys realize that.

"But Windows offers that too and more."

It offers Viruses, about 1 million of them.

MBR Trojan Approaching the 3-Year Mark

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/11/02/0121222.shtml

quote from the link:
""Still going strong since February 2006, the 'Sinowal' Master Boot Record infector (also called 'Torpig' and 'Mebroot' by various anti-virus companies) has compromised more than half a million financial accounts. An HTML injection engine adds fields to login pages to compromise credentials. Injection is triggered by the Web addresses — more than 2,700 bank and e-commerce sites are hard-coded into the malware. 'RSA investigators found more than 270,000 online banking account credentials, as well as roughly 240,000 credit and debit account numbers and associated personal information on Web servers the Sinowal authors were using to set up their attacks.' The majority of anti-virus and anti-malware scanners do not detect this threat."
--------------------------------------------------
And yes, we are talking Windows Malware here.

On other note, does anyone see that Andre has resorted to copy and paste, and that his style seems to be exactly the same as some of the VCSY people were?

@The Hand: Good link on Andre being a Mac user. Would have never guessed it.

Carl:
Every platform is susceptible to attack. Microsoft has the best patching process when it comes to Operating Systems. It continually researches for new vulnerabilities. The attack surface has been dramatically reduced since the introduction of Windows XP SP2. Please get your facts together before repeating Open Source propaganda.

Hi Andre, It appears Chips was 100% correct. Ill be taking that information to every other forum I post on. If as I believe you are an MS shill, then thankyou, you are helping the open source cause by portraying MS as some frightened massive company who has to resort to posting on blogs to protect its investments.

Now if I may, I would like to comment on some of your "facts" as firstly I could not bare the thought of you having the last word, and secondly whilst I believe it is your job to advertise on blogs, I will give new readers here (or infact anyone else who is reading) the other viewpoint.

Andre Quote 1. "People do not want complexity, they want ease of use, security and productivity and Vista offers that. I hope you guys realize that."
- Yes Andre, 500,000 or so people who had their card details cloned know all about Windows security, and for the record are you still claiming its the sellers of Windows machines who are at fault for poor Vista sales?

Andre quote 2. "Thanks for linking my review, it really tells the truth"
- So what you saying Andre? You were telling lies when you posted here? The two viewpoints have many different "facts" in them.

Andre quote 3. "Every platform is susceptible to attack. Microsoft has the best patching process when it comes to Operating Systems. " - I will answer that in two parts. Firstly, yes, every platform is susceptible to attack (although Id bet no other system comes close to the amount Windows users are exposed to. Microsoft may having the best patching process, but history has shown that was AFTER the event. A little bit like "shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted"

Andre quote 4. "Please get your facts together before repeating Open Source propaganda" - I believe I used the phrase MS propaganda before you. Please at least if you are going to use my word style say thanks. Open Source propaganda? If the attack surface has been "dramatically reduced" then the problem must have been alot worse than we thought. The spyware/anti-virus/malware packages that users have to purchase ONTOP of buying Windows still are not good enough, as shown recently due to so many people having their cards cloned (Source: BBC)

I am not going to post any of your links here again Mr Da Costa. I will however be forwarding this thread and all associated links to a rather well known and outspoken opponent of MS who I am sure you know and will find your previous conflicting posts very interesting. Who knows maybe he will do an article as well?
To be honest, I am just an "average" user at home. I speak as I find, and I enjoy my MS free computing experience, I am not involved at the level I believe you are Andre, and no bad thing. Thats why Andre, people like me are always able to get the better of people like you, as I base my opinions on personal experience, you base yours on your paycheck (IMO)

and Andre, on a final personal note, thank you. When I first came here, I simply intended to post my views and leave. You have given me the enthusiasm to continue promoting the open source cause and even more determined to show more people the benefits. Thanks again.

Joe,

I would like to apologize for my vulgar use of words in my two prior posts. After reading this post, I would say that you've moved back to the more balanced approach that your initial 2-3 posts about Azure took. However, when you called Azure vaporware, I felt strongly that you had went from being possibly a bit surprised at how big, bet the farm Azure appears to be for M$ to overly critical, even before the PDC had ended. You are correct in stating that Azure is an enormous undertaking for M$. One has to remember that M$ has more products that anyone to move towards cloud computing in situations that the model fits. And, Office is no exception. Bethatasitmay, all of the pundits need to give M$ until Azure makes it into CTP status before they really start making meaningful comparisons to competing products.

Sorry to say no MS does not have the most applications that will integrate with a cloud then anyone else.

Open Source has the most to integrate into a cloud. So far that if you really don't care about lag raw X11 applications can be put into the cloud.

Have you missed the open source projects going in this direction? http://nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org

Notice a difference here. Decentralized server.

This is the important thing Linux is moving to shared data storage in a lot of critical areas. PIM clients like evolution and kontact sharing there configurations and data. Really there is nothing stopping server in a business using there users profiles to provide PIM threw http in a way that clients on desktops and http provided stay synced.

Azure is late and there is nothing that special to protect it. Good example is the open source sharepoint replacement. They have been only providing a cloud server that links to local server for the last 7 years.

Issue is if they have to give the open source guys there protocols Azure could just end up cloned by google and yahoo. Yep reason why MS need to by yahoo at all costs. They are one of the biggest existing cloud providers.

How are they going to profit from this. Or are they doomed?

@Goblin;
I too am guilty of giving the shill too much attention, and should as Marco always said stay on message. But if so often, I do this, just to put some on notice, that we know where they come from. And, before I move off this subject, what does it say for activewin site, the the owner is a MVP and they employ? Just the facts anyone? Usually when I respond to the shill's bating, I do so a a comment to someone else, to avoid and not give any credence to the shill. But every so often, I have to prove they are shills.

Anyway back to the message.

Azure. What is it really? The Cloud, online storage, etc. Or just another way for MS to try to beat Google since the Yahoo deal fell out. I can just see the internet highway if Microsoft somehow extends its monopoly tenticles to the internet, there will be tollbooths everywhere.

I clean/repair computers. By cleaning I mean clean out the windows malware off Windows computers. Notice people, I did not say Mac or Linux Malware, as I have never seen any of those infected to this day. Windows users with malware is a booming business, so much so that I am turning away people. Last thing I decided to do was to raise the price I charge for Vista malware. Now I have decided that I do not want to work on Vista computers at all. Let someone else have the pain.

After all this time, since Windows 95, and Microsoft is still releasing the worst secure Operating System of all time. Microsoft, when will you fix the malware problem for users? When will you fix and replace the XBox360 for at least 7 years?

People are not short sighted, they see the value in Microsoft software. That's why Open Source is 1% and Microsoft is 99%. People understand Microsoft software offers the best in ease of use, Entertainment, security and productivity. You are all entrenched in Open Source, its quite obvious and your views will never change. But, no matter what you try to say, people will see through it. That Dell that comes with Linux will be immediately formatted and Windows Vista installed. I have seen it happen. I can bet all my life savings right now, all of you who say these negative things about Microsoft are actually running the best from them right now on your PC's. I wouldn't be surprised to see Chips with 5 PC's in his home, 3 Workstations running Ultimate 64 bit and two notebooks Tablet and Gaming notebook also with Vista Ultimate SP1.

There is no reason to have a problem with that. But you are all doing a good thing, you are causing consumers to want to find out whats all the hoopla about Vista. End up giving users choice and the ability to have a great computing experience with Windows Vista. Great job. Chips, please remember to check out the Quick FAQs, so cool power user tricks in there I know you will love. I sense you are that type of user who wants control over there entire computing experience, Vista delivers. I love the discussion, lets not stop, I want all you to know more about the wonderful opportunities.

Did you know you can use Windows Live Photo Gallery to share your photos through Windows Live Spaces, FaceBook and Flickr? Its right there under the Publish button. Guess what, its free.

Joe Willcox:
I don't know if your site collects any data on its posters here, some sites can detect the OS that users use. But if you can, Its ok this time to reply, and let people know that I use Linux. Just to end the non-sense. It has been a long long time since I used XP, to post here, and I have not used Vista on my computers, but have worked with a lot of Vista computers, so I am familar with them. I don't need to run Vista to know it bad OS. Just like I don't need to buy a car without an engine, to know it won't run.

It makes no sense to run Windows of any version on the internet, its a big malware target waiting to happen. Linux and Mac OS X are both modern designed OS that have well thought out security from the get go.

For those windows users who have malware problems, go to:

distrowatch.com and download a live cd of a linux distro Chips recommends Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Mint, even Ubuntu

correction to my last post when I said:
"I don't need to run Vista to know it bad OS."
it should have been:
"I don't need to buy Vista to know it bad OS."

If I run it in the course of doing repairs, often enough, and know how to fix it, that counts.

Quote Andre "That Dell that comes with Linux will be immediately formatted and Windows Vista installed"

- You think? What about the machines that have Vista pre-loaded and are formatted in favour of Linux? Ive seen that happen. 1 - 1

Quote Andre "You are all entrenched in Open Source, its quite obvious and your views will never change."

- and you are entrenched with MS, the only difference between us is that the open source products which offer the same functionality (and better) than MS ones are free. MS makes money from sales of its software. Opensource supporters do not make any money. You tell me, whos more trustworthy? I use MS products every day at work (not through choice) yet I choose open source at home, I wonder why that is?

Quote Andre "I can bet all my life savings right now, all of you who say these negative things about Microsoft are actually running the best from them right now on your PC's."
-What a silly thing to say. You know that statement cant be proved either way. Its a very poor attempt at trying to imply that the MS way is the only way. I expected better from you Mr Da Co$ta.

Quote "you are causing consumers to want to find out whats all the hoopla about Vista"
and if thats the official MS opinion, it goes someway to explain why people are migrating away from the platform. Youre figures are lies Andre and transparent ones at that. If anyone wants to see if you are telling the truth, they can do the research themselves. I dont even need to debate that point with you.

Andre, if youre so right, why is it that there are only one or two people who post here with pro-ms statements? That doesnt suggest your "opinions" are in the majority does it. The Microsoftwatch site, is probably now more pro-open source than linux.com!

Id give it up if I were you. If your own blog didnt give you hints that you were a poor shiller, you should have got the message here. Just read back at what people are saying. You are entertainment that is all, but worse than that, the thing you are seeking to protect you are damaging with your incorrect and conflicting posts.

@marco and Goblin:
I think what we are seeing here is someone who is trying anything to prevent the discussion of the problems of Microsoft. Someone, who might be a bit unbalanced, who might have even resorted to identity thief in the past.

"I can bet all my life savings right now, all of you who say these negative things about Microsoft are actually running the best from them right now on your PC's."

And you'd win the bet. I have two laptops with Windows Vista Home Premium. One entry level Toshiba and one Dell Studio 17 with all the bells and whistles. The Dell dual boots to Kubuntu Linux (all hardware is supported and yes WiFi works like a charm).

I also have a 3 or 4 year old HP with a Athlon 2800+. That has XP OEM, it also runs Kubuntu and Windows Server 2003. On top of this I also have a 12" PowerBook G4 laptop with Tiger. Oh and I own an XBox Elite (you know the black one with 120Gb HDD).

It is precisely because I run the best from them that I say the things I say. Because I'm not boxed in Windows and Microsoft. Because I have working experience with other systems that give me the points of comparison. How could I possibly express myself otherwise without being biased?

I agree chips, Ill be damned if Andre will get the last word on any topic, people need to know that they have a choice and a free one or a MAC one.
If after reading this just 1 person tries an alternative and finds it better for them, then I consider my efforts here worthwhile.

Sorry for the double post, Gerardo must have posted that whilst I was typing.

@Gerardo Tasistro

and theres nothing wrong with your viewpoint at all (IMO) For you, you use a diverse selection of packages and if thats the right combination for you, then I have no place to disagree. You are a user of MS and open source and thats your choice. I too am a Xbox 360 owner (as Ive said before) and unlike the thousands of xbox owners who had to return their machine, I have not. The Xbox has pride of place under the TV (until the kids get a WII for Xmas) and I have been very happy with my choice in console.
I am not frightened to admit that, its my honest opinion, but as you've found out MS-shillers dont want you having a choice, they want you 100% MS.
Andre's attitude is very close to getting me to boycott my Xbox, unlike the current fashion, I never demonized MS, however that is starting to change, and I think I may feel a little "cleaner" when the Xbox gets replaced by the WII on Dec 25th.

I wonder if Andre has thought this out well. With his 1% open source and 99% microsoft comment. We all know he meant Linux, not open source. Also we know he got the figures wrong again, unless he counts Mac as Windows. Maybe he does as linked in the other one of Joe's ariticles. Andre did at some point did own and run Mac. Also his 250 million claim running Vista, bogus. And never a link to back up any of his wild claims.

Don't take this the wrong way, but people expect bloggers, and or Microsoft MVP's or Softies, to have some level of countability with regards to the facts they present. And you Andre, are posting on a public forum, where people can link and quote you on other sites, like for example, Microsoft sites, even your buddies site at activewin. Now you not going look too professional if people start to do this. So please be careful with the facts. Even Joe might be getting sick of your spam.

Joe,

I'm not going to argue with someone who buys their ink by the barrel. I gave specific examples previously, including the wikipedia definition of vaporware.

Also, on this:

"Shall I list off the big Microsoft strategies that the company abandoned or transformed? I didn't in either of the other Azure posts because I regarded such a list to be unnecessarily dredging up past failures. But they can't be overlooked now, unfortunately: Cairo, HailStorm, Longhorn, NTFS and PlaysForSure, among many others.

Longhorn is specifically mentioned in the second piece.

Joe: a comment is still in moderation. Any issues there?

Joe: a comment is still in moderation. Any issues there?

Joe: a comment is still in moderation. Any issues there?

What about Microsoft Bob?! The failure of all failures...

Or even Microsoft Money, an attempt to kill Sage.... Failed miserably...

Or ActiveX - possibly the most damaging MS product ever!

These versions of IE 1,2,3,5,7,8(?)... That PDF competitor they launched a few years ago...

I could go on all day... seriously...

Andre says:
"But Windows offers that too and more."
Carl replies:
"It offers Viruses, about 1 million of them."
Andre replies:
"Every platform is susceptible to attack. Please get your facts together before repeating Open Source propaganda."....................

A good form of propaganda is to start off with a true statement. Yes, every platform is susceptible to attack. But not every platform, or OS, a wide open system like Windows,where everyone runs with administrator privileges right out of the box. Most Modern Operating Systems, like most Linux and BSD distros, and Mac OS X, set up security, right out of the box (installation by default) with limited user accounts. UAC in Vista is not a limited user account, its still an administrator account set up by default. As far as the facts, you Andre, I see have none, or only links to prove the crap you are shoveling. Most likely Carl seen this link:

Number of viruses to top 1 million by 2009
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/040408-number-of-viruses-to-top.html?fsrc=rss-security

Now, Andre, you may think you are scoring points for your team, Microsoft, be consider this. Windows users know that and have most likely been infected more than once, with malware. So even they do not believe you when you try to pull the wool over their eyes, and pretend for your bosses at Microsoft that everything is just fine and dandy, and Windows is the most secure OS on the face of the planet, LOL. Windows security on the internet is a joke.

What is truly said, is this guy Andre, blogs over on the just the facts Activewin site, about Windows Seven, tying to suck people into buying that c**p when it comes out. When you consider that Andre is paid by Microsoft, and then you think maybe that Microsoft used some of the same quality folks to code Vista, then you see why it took so long to release Vista, and why it was so bloated and bad.

Joe, is Andre in any way affiliated with you are eWeek? And do you know if he works in any way for Micro$oft?

Not a bad post at all given your aversion for MS.

Microsoft: Malware Threats Up 43%

The software maker says that the spread of unwanted software is growing faster than ever.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/vulnerabilities/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=212000055

"The spread of malicious software that can harm computers and open gateways for hackers and identity thieves is on the rise according to Microsoft. The amount of so-called malware and other unwanted software found on computers rose 43% in the first half of the year, the company said Monday."

Bilski And Software Patents – Good News for FOSS:

www.press.redhat.com/2008/11/03/bilski-and-software-patents-%E2%80%93-good-news-for-foss/

Yep some good news there.

Id been following similar stories over on Boycott Novell. It seems that MS's threat of "patent power" is not really up to much.

I found a nice little Linux advert today (and yes Andre, I know its a joke)
Ive had some spare time since Andre has stayed away today.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr-bonfzEVU

Thanks, Goblin!

Here's another one. Much calmer... it features only pengiuns and soft music, with no heart-attack-waiting-to-happen characters:

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PLHjT5-XM9o&feature=related

Lol. Yeah I looked at that one right after I found the one that I posted here.

Its very well done.

and heres a serious one with a message that is quite relevant at the moment (with all the press about Windows vulnerabilities)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LAr3XbqUbjo&feature=related

Andre Da Costa : wrote

"Linux is good for hobbyist, its for the student who wants to learn about how an OS works and play around."

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Actually Linux is much more than that. But that might be the first real positive comment on Linux I have maybe seen by you to date.

There is hope.... :-)

There are die hard Windows users out there who ARE using Linux as a dual boot with their Vista machines. They are happy with both OS', and despite those users elect to use Windows (along with Linux). The Linux community enthusiastically welcomes them into the fold.

A lot of the dual booters use Linux for surfing web sites and overall general use and only switch to Windows if they feel they need to use Windows for some unspecified reason.

Linux isn't for everyone, but it is for mostly anyone and that fact is bought out each and every day we get another Linux user.

I managed to resist the urge at the time to respond to the fictional character of Andre Da Co$ta when he said "its for the student who wants to learn about how an OS works"
What I wanted to say to him was:
Well I agree, there is no point in a student trying to learn how an OS works with Windows, because it doesnt."
Thanks for letting me get that one out Ralph without him engaging in another PR paste with our friend Andre.

I notice his "blog" hasnt been updated since 28th, so no need for anyone to click on his link. I wonder if he's been given the push?

I read through these comments and it is so painfully clear that most of you dont' have a clue as to what Azure is really about.

I rememebr back in the DOS or Win 3.x days where every application needed it's own print or modem driver. What a pain that was.

Then MS did this thing called the "uni-driver" and all that complexity just went away. Now we need print drivers for Windows and not an individual app.

Azure is the "unidrv.dll" for the cloud. Whether MS or someone else get's it right first is the question.

I think they have a chance. Ozzie is the Lotus Notes guy. Notes was ahead of it's time, but suffered and died because it was not open. With SDKs and APIs right out of the gate Azure should be different.

I am responsible for the entire technical infrastructure for a pretty large company and I can cofidently state that what they are talking about is what I want.

The fact that we also have almost every other MS product makes it even more desireable.

Having an infrastructure that is network aware would be a huge gain.

The key to make this whole thing work is synchronization. From what I have seen in Mesh, they have a good start.

It is still early, but this looks extremely promising.

@Goblin :
"I notice his "blog" hasnt been updated since 28th, so no need for anyone to click on his link. I wonder if he's been given the push?"
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He will be back in one form or another (sock puppets). Of that you can count on, this is not the first time. So we don't have to waste time on his worthless claims while he is gone. But in a way, he was unintentionally useful, as his claims were so easy to disprove.

What separates a fanboy from a shill is a few things. The first is of course some form of payment, no always money. The second is they cannot admit to losing a point or an argument, even when clearly very wrong. Even the most hardened Windows Fanboy, will tell you about the malware problems. Heck, if anything, they have been though it and have learned how to deal somewhat with it. And most Linux user, were, or are, also Windows users, and have been though the windows malware experience as well. But Andre, he did not want to even admit an Microsoft Malware problem even exsists for Windows. I find that more than strange, beyond what any fanboy would say.

Then there is Doctor Doug, most likely another, as Marco has said. Odd thing, Doctor Doug gives and address, that Google Maps cannot find. But at least to his credit, his site does not read like a just the fact site. But the site does work to give him some credence, or knowledge to try to offset what I say.

@Mike

How is it clear that "dont' have a clue as to what Azure is really about."

I certainly do and so do the other posts I have read. If YOU had a clue, you would have noticed that rather than having no faith in the theory of Azure, its more a case of no faith in the company behind it (IMO).
Its the MS way of one size fits all approach, its the ethos of total domination of the market, its MS's previous history of "innovative" products, its MS's product security. The list goes on. Its not the product, its the company behind it.

You said "I am responsible for the entire technical infrastructure for a pretty large company and I can cofidently state that what they are talking about is what I want."

and I believe thats what the future holds for MS. Users both home and business are no longer happy with the "one size fits all" MS. I believe MS's future lies in the production of custom solutions for large business. The public perception of MS (IMO) is dropping at a daily rate, MS has its fingers in so many pies and everyones pulling in a different direction. Even if you are right and people here didnt know what Azure really was, what does that say about MS's marketing strategy?
Lets for a moment consider .net and the confusion even today about what it actually is. If what you are suggesting is correct then IMO thats even worse for MS, as not only do they have a PR problem (IMO), but they havent even succeeded in getting their product over successfully to the public.

@Mike, I have got to be one of those who don't have a clue what Azure is about. I've been digging into the microsoft.com site and watched some videos. I honestly don't know how Azure benefits me. Which is quite different from not understanding what Azure is.

Can I have Azure in my own private farm? I can sure have it in the SDK as the demo shows. Can I cluster 8 PCs and have an Azure "tropical depression" in my office? Why can only Microsoft have "The Cloud"? And as Goblin points out, why should I trust Microsoft with these apps?

@Goblin, you said
I certainly do and so do the other posts I have read. If YOU had a clue, you would have noticed that rather than having no faith in the theory of Azure, its more a case of no faith in the company behind it (IMO).
Its the MS way of one size fits all approach, its the ethos of total domination of the market, its MS's previous history of "innovative" products, its MS's product security. The list goes on. Its not the product, its the company behind it.

I have a couple of comments. Betting against MS, historically had not worked for most. Sure, there are exceptions but they are just that - exceptions.

Also, if you read it in more detail, you will see that it is not a one size approach. The ability to mix and match the publishing and subscriptions to services will allow it to fit in a lot of places. The SDKs and APIs will allow it to wire into just about anything.

MS has a huge opportunity here. It will be all about execution.

IMO - this is all about synchronization. They get that right and.......

@Goblin - forgot to address this
How is it clear that "dont' have a clue as to what Azure is really about."

If you read the comments, things quickly became for most an MS vs. Linux debate and how many viruses target Windows etc.... The same old same old.

Azure is a way for you to run your web based applications in the cloud in Microsoft's highly reliable data centers. It uses the same methodologies for development using existing development tools and languages with improvements for publishing your apps. Very simple.

@Andre, exactly. So why should I use it? Why should I move from my current hosting service to Azure?

I dont believe for one minute that Azure will be the unique experience for all users that MS thinks it will. I still believe it will be a MOSTLY one size fits all experience.
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Mike and Andre da Co$ta, you have avoided the points that I put to you about what this says about MS's marketing stategy if, as you say people dont understand it?
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We've seen it in the past with .net. We will see it again. This argument is not about MSvLinux (as for an open source fan, MS is not even in with a chance) this is about throwing your eggs into one basket, this is about another MS innovation, if people choose to use it because it is the best solution for them then thats fine, although if, as you say people dont understand Azure, so I cant see it taking off.
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Maybe MS shareholders reading this would consider that point. If MS cant promote its own products in a manner that will make then understandable to everyone, how will it capture the market?
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Oh thanks for the Microsoft advert Andre, I put it to you that your head is where Azure is, in the clouds.

Azure is just what several people has just described here already, it is just a money making machine (if people are that stupid that they buy on it).

However, this is a subject that can take as many BAD twists as one wishes to give it. For example, one might say that in a company ruled by a business man such as Ballmer, it is clear what someone like Ozzie has to do to please the CEO, he has to find a way to turn something into a service. So say Ozzie looks at the landscape and sees Microsoft Windows and Office Suite as Desktop applications that you buy once and use forever free of any extra charges.

So he wonders how can I make those be something people keep paying FOREVER to use? thus my CEO is happy. Well the simplest answer is lets turn Windows into something that lives partially in your trimmed down computer at home and some Microsoft server somewhere in the US or else in the world. At that point, you can see Azure coming about from some fuzzy Ozzie ideas into some form of "reality".

Then what's wrong with Azure?, one may wonder, well, the very first wrong thing is that it is a SERVICE, or should I say (MONEY PIT). It has NO SOLID value, its value is temporary, as long as you pay for it, you have it, once you can't afford to pay for it and no matter for HOW LONG or HOW MUCH you have already paid for it, YOU WON'T HAVE IT.

So how does that relate to people's current and future financial situations, and when I say people I mean 95% of the population of the state and probably the world WHICH IS NOT RICH. Well in a world where the kind of people I describe, are invested on houses and all other forms of debts, weekly, monthly, yearly or lifetime debts are simply one of the things we (people) want to GET RID OF. For example taxes won't go away and bills such as water, electricity, communications general and others won't go away.

Currently we have one thing for sure that we can buy and last for 4 or 5 years or longer for most users, and that is computing power WE OWN, we just have it under our desks and paid a fraction of what a service will cost us. So WHY AZURE!!! why would I want to lose:

1. MY MONEY.
2. My autonomy.
3. My fun.
4. My privacy.

To continue to fill the pockets of some rich man at Microsoft.

Does this mean, that Microsoft has nothing else to do??? Definitely not, they could use their time and resources more wisely and effectively and at the same time, provide people with value they currently don't, value it is WORTH PAYING FOR, and that my friends, IT'S NOT AZURE!!!